“If you can’t Buddy Carry me, you don’t leave the wire with me.” How would you have reacted?

CPT Aaron Kletzing — Tue, 14 Apr 2015 21:46:13 -0400

Question for all RallyPoint members: Is this the true test of whether someone could leave the wire with you? Vote in the survey here and explain why.

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When I got to my first unit in Hawaii, which was an infantry company, we were already set to deploy later that year to Iraq for 15 months. I was not an infantry officer myself; I was an artillery officer. We were doing a ton of intense training in the field, and PT in that unit was tough as well. All good things.

Leading up to our deployment date, we did a lot of brute physical strength-related PT, like running long distances with heavy equipment, or walking uphill doing one-man or two-man Buddy Carry drills.

I remember one of these sessions being led by one of the squad leaders, a Staff Sergeant (Army E-6) who had deployed twice already. At the end of that PT session, he yelled out to our formation:

“To every man here – if you can’t Buddy Carry me 50 meters with my full kit on, then you’re not leaving the wire with me in Iraq. No questions.” I thought through this for a while – both the logic and the spirit of what he was trying to get at.

Question for all RallyPoint members: What is your first reaction to this NCO’s statement here? Vote in the survey here and explain why.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2015 9:59 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 14 Apr 2015 21:59:53 -0400

I 100% agree. I want someone as strong or stronger than me on my right and left.

Response by SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. made Apr 14 at 2015 10:06 PM

SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. — Tue, 14 Apr 2015 22:06:48 -0400

The dude on the right, really?

Response by COL Charles Williams made Apr 14 at 2015 10:09 PM

COL Charles Williams — Tue, 14 Apr 2015 22:09:10 -0400

Makes sense to me. The reason we do physical training is ensure total fitness and readiness, to reduce the effects of stress, and to ensure in combat, Soldiers can do the essential things that would need to be done, and do so under the worse conditions. My measure of a Soldier was if I got shot, and was lying in the middle of street, during a fire fight, would/could you come get me and get me to safety. Yes, it makes sense to me CPT Aaron Kletzing .

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2015 10:16 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 14 Apr 2015 22:16:27 -0400

I need to be able believe that you can have my back.......simple

Response by CPT Bob Moore made Apr 14 at 2015 10:19 PM

CPT Bob Moore — Tue, 14 Apr 2015 22:19:15 -0400

I agree. You have to trust those that you go outside the wire with 100%. That means if the two of you are even 25 or 50 meters away from cover, each of you needs to be able to get the other back to relative safety. You go out and you want to bring everyone back. Every team member needs to be 100% ready to go.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2015 10:21 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 14 Apr 2015 22:21:39 -0400

I completely agree with the concept behind the statement. Every man in an infantry unit should be able to pull his weight and his buddy's.

I am a small guy (5'6'' 140 lbs) and it is extremely difficult for me to carry/pull my SL (6'4'' 220 lbs), but it is what is expected of me and something I could be required to do. I do not disagree with that as a standard. It is much more difficult for me than many of the other guys in my platoon, but that is part of the duty and responsibility of being in an infantry line unit.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2015 10:26 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 14 Apr 2015 22:26:07 -0400

In Vietnam you better be able to buddy carry. How else would a wounded or dead friend, or stranger, get out of the jungle, rice paddies, mountains, and valleys? The helicopters came for them and the troopers weren't going to walk out by their self. When we went in to an LZ with wounded or KIA, I was expected to help extract them along with their fellow troopers. I carried many a man to my ship. They were heavy but that's why we were young and strong. In combat, you can't sit on the sidelines and watch someone else doing their job. If that's what you do, you won't last long.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2015 10:37 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 14 Apr 2015 22:37:43 -0400

Although I generally agree with the statement, a buddy carry is not always the most feasible method of moving a comrade out of harms way. Drags can be just as effective and provide a smaller profile in some opinions.

I believe that all soldiers should be capable of carrying their own weight, and their buddies to an extent, the situation may dictate otherwise.

Then again, there is a big difference between a SSG hollering at soldiers to do buddy carries during training, and having to do it outside the wire.

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2015 10:41 PM

PV2 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 14 Apr 2015 22:41:35 -0400

I agree completely. If you are in a combat unit and stuff goes down you should be able to. When I was in as a medic we did litter drills all the time for PT to prepare us. I think it's a good NCO getting them ready before deploying. I give him kudos.

Response by LTC Stephen C. made Apr 14 at 2015 10:50 PM

LTC Stephen C. — Tue, 14 Apr 2015 22:50:16 -0400

CPT Aaron Kletzing, I agree and I think that SSG Private RallyPoint Member and COL Charles Williams have adequately articulated my sentiments.

Response by SGT Richard H. made Apr 14 at 2015 11:11 PM

SGT Richard H. — Tue, 14 Apr 2015 23:11:49 -0400

If what he said hurt any feelings, Sorry....but he's right. If you can't carry a grown man with a kit, you're a liability in the Infantry. That doesn't mean you have to be able to carry him home...but you better be able to carry him to a safe spot. To me, that means 50 meters at a minimum.
My nephew (Infantryman, 25 years my junior) got the same line from his squad leader...in his case it was him being counseled to lift less and run more. The point being that he could carry two of his buddies but one buddy wouldn't be able to carry him.
Sounds crazy, right? Think about it. His squad leader was looking out for HIM. After we had THAT conversation, he was substantially less pissed. Turns out he respects his Uncle.

Response by CW2 Stephen Pate made Apr 14 at 2015 11:42 PM

CW2 Stephen Pate — Tue, 14 Apr 2015 23:42:17 -0400

So what if his bedside manner was a little rough? I think he was spot on. I bet his troops were all Hooah about it when he said that!

Response by MSG Bo Lathrop made Apr 14 at 2015 11:59 PM

MSG Bo Lathrop — Tue, 14 Apr 2015 23:59:23 -0400

I agree to an extent. I've been in the Infantry for almost 14 years now. I'm 5'5 and weigh 125 pounds. Can I buddy carry some of my soldiers who are over 6 feet and weigh over 200 lbs with their kit while wearing all mine? Nope. Does that make me a bad infantryman? Hell no.
I know my job, and I'm physically fit. I can ruck march with the best of em, I score in the 280's on my APFT. I was a PSG for approximately 4 years, you bet your ass I had all my soldiers' back and would do anything to keep them alive. Some of the comments on here said you shouldn't be in the Infantry if you can't battle buddy carry another soldier 100 meters or so. Would I try to push/pull/drag you to safety? Hell yes. Can I buddy carry another soldier who weighs less, yup. Doesn't make an infantryman a bad infantryman if he can't physically carry a guy who weighs twice as much as him. All that matters is that a Soldier lays down EFFECTIVE suppressing fire and gains fire superiority, while trying to get the wounded to safety. You don't need to be big and strong to get wounded to safety, you just need another soldier and a litter.

Response by 1SG Joe Messier made Apr 15 at 2015 12:08 AM

1SG Joe Messier — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 00:08:26 -0400

My rule for leaving the wire hell, for serving in the Army was simple. If your rifle is slinging bullets in the same direction as mine with the same intent, welcome to the team. Gay, Straight, man , woman, fat, skinny, trouble maker, who cares. Max forces forward. I put cooks, Admin and commo on PSD to fill gaps. They did just fine. Besides if they are fat they will lose that weight carrying their kit all day. I made it a point to get every soldier in my Headquarters Troop outside the wire to experience what the Scouts/Infantry platoons were experiencing. Granted they were not kicking in doors but I tell you what it made them provide better support to the shooters. When you've run short handed for too long you learn to appreciate every extra hand you can get.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Apr 15 at 2015 12:48 AM

SFC Mark Merino — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 00:48:59 -0400

I'd rather have someone with the skills to call Redleg, CAS, medevac and fight like a lion to keep me from being carried off by some jackhole who wants my head on al jezeera. I had PT beasts in my unit that I needed a Chinook to move 50m. My broke butt might not be able to move you 50m with all your batman gear on, but I'll never leave your side.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Apr 15 at 2015 12:56 AM

SFC Mark Merino — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 00:56:14 -0400

Audie Murphy could barely pass the physical to get in the service.

Response by SPC Dennis Rutledge made Apr 15 at 2015 1:07 AM

SPC Dennis Rutledge — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 01:07:27 -0400

I agree because I'm a former 19k/11b/OIF 1st Styker bragade combat team to deploy, and you need to be ready for all possible situation

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2015 1:21 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 01:21:09 -0400

I completely agree. As long as he wasn't a 250 body builder. If he was an average athletic build that is fine. It makes sense. For the same reason you usually don't go out with a vehicle that you can't recover on your own. But someone that is far too weak needs to understand how they can put the mission at risk. You may not have to just throw him our the shoulder and run a mile but you should be able to move them to safety. We did have a Squad Leader in the past that was on the larger side. I didn't think he should have been a SL but I was a SL also and didn't have enough pull. He did pull a muscle on a patrol and they had to pull up a vehicle to get him. I was pretty fit but I don't think I could have carried him.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2015 1:26 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 01:26:28 -0400

I agree with his intent, if perhaps not literally. I don't think there's a man in my Company that could buddy carry my 6'6 260 lb (without kit) 1SG. We would certainly drag him to where he needed to be though. That doesn't make us or him substandard Soldiers.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2015 1:38 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 01:38:49 -0400

Motivation! Wether he meant it or not, I'm sure it fired some young men up who were on the brink of giving in.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2015 2:35 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 02:35:52 -0400

Can a 110 pound Infantryman carry me? I weigh 280+ pounds in full kit. I don't think being able to "carry" someone is the question, I know plenty of Infantrymen that are in great shape but can't "carry" their buddy in full kit. "Dead" weight is a helluva lot heavier than carrying your buddy during CLS training. The crazy thing is, adrenaline is a helluva drug! I have seen Soldiers do amazing things under fire.

This NCO's statement is way out of context. Soldier fails to meet standards IAW AR 600-9, Soldier is enrolled in the Army Body Composition Program, Soldier either meets standards of the ABCP or is separated from service. If the Soldier meets or exceeds the Army Physical Fitness standards the issue on whether he or she can carry someone is irrelevant.

Response by 1LT William Clardy made Apr 15 at 2015 3:01 AM

1LT William Clardy — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 03:01:44 -0400

I think he's bordering on stupidly simplistic.

First of all, I'm more inclined towards SFC Mark Merino's line of thought -- I'm more concerned that you bring abilities which will make it less likely anybody will need to be carried.

Second, he seems to think that a patrol is just a collection of individuals and their individual abilities. Does he think synergy and teamwork don't apply to casualty recovery and evacuation?

Lastly, he is implicitly endorsing the least effective means of evacuation. Single-man carries are the slowest and most fatiguing methods of evacuation -- or, to be more blunt, the ones most likely to convert the carrier into an additional casualty (I once had a soldier go down with heat stroke while using a fireman-carry to evacuate his buddy about 100 meters from a hilltop OP). What is the real likelihood of any tactical situation where a 2-man drag won't be faster with less total exposure (especially including the time spent exposed while hefting him over your shoulder)?

Response by SFC Charles S. made Apr 15 at 2015 3:08 AM

SFC Charles S. — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 03:08:19 -0400

It's about being able to pull the weight while outside the wire, including not leaving a soldier behind, even if they are wounded and can't walk. Survival is the main point. We train so that we win. Every ounce of sweat we expend in training saves a pint of blood once we are outside the wire.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2015 4:01 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 04:01:30 -0400

Well if the guy on the right is in combat he becomes a liability and so does any member who cannot carry their own weight both literally and figuratively.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2015 5:41 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 05:41:11 -0400

Well, it's 50/50 for me...I agree to an extent because your not always going to need to carry someone out of a situation...I want them to have the knowledge of 9line, CAS, or whatever else it may be also...not just strength because I feel knowing is also a great portion of survival as well

Response by CPL Jay Freeman made Apr 15 at 2015 6:42 AM

CPL Jay Freeman — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 06:42:30 -0400

The thought behind this is great and was set way before we started wearing as much gear as we have to when we go into battle. Vietnam soldiers weighed less with the gear. Then take into thought that a 150 pound man can not carry safely a 250 pound man plus gear. Maybe the new concept is stick around in the fire fight and don't leave me. We are trained one shot one kill other army's train if you shoot and wound someone will run into the open to save him then you shoot that guy and since now it normally takes 2 guys to drag someone to safety they have multiplied there targets because of the old doctrine we have. When in Iraq in 04 my Sargent set up a scenario where we had a man down and where set behind our humvees we had a winch mounted on the front I removed the extra gear I didn't need attached the hook to my belt and ran like hell if I had been shot they could winch me back. I reached my buddy took the hook off me attached it to him and ran back with his armor on he would be able to be dragged back safely each person plays to there strengths and as long as a leader sees and can use the that's great. Another situation was a squad of infantry men came under small arms fire and was pinned down they had the driver of the Bradley pull in front of them to load up there wounded and get out.
Old doctrine while great needs to have updated a little. In practice. Esther that or we need to set up squads by height and weight. As a 19 delta I was asked by my drill Sargent if my buddy was to be captured and no way to get to him even if I shot everyone I could I still couldn't get him what would I do I said I would shoot him my drill was surprised by the answer but he said I was right in my thought. We work in teams of 3 so it could be likely.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2015 7:05 AM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 07:05:31 -0400

I disagree with him because it's not realistic to expect every individual to be able to buddy carry every other individual, but I do get it and I generally do agree with the spirit of what the SSG said. I just don't think it's realistic. In fact, I'm sure it's not a realistic expectation.

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Apr 15 at 2015 7:30 AM

CPT Aaron Kletzing — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 07:30:51 -0400

At the time, I was 185 lbs without my kit, and about 235 with my kit and weapon. I don't think every single guy in my company could have Buddy Carried me 50m while wearing their own kit -- especially if they were already smoked.

I do see the logic in the statement, though.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Apr 15 at 2015 7:45 AM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 07:45:11 -0400

Please note the picture of my section during my second deployment. I'm the guy second from the left. In this photo, I am in peak physical condition, and had a first class PFT score. The the guy to the left of me (Cpl Hightower), had 150-170lbs on me. (he was 6'8" 300lbs to my 5'6" 130-140).

I think the NCO's statements are shortsighted but well intended.

Response by SGT Dylan Epp made Apr 15 at 2015 8:10 AM

SGT Dylan Epp — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 08:10:46 -0400

I wouldn't let the guy wearing PTs in the picture go on mission with me. There"s no way anyone would be able to even drag him away let alone carry him!

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Apr 15 at 2015 8:16 AM

Capt Richard I P. — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 08:16:04 -0400

Yep. Combat doesn't care about how nature/god made you a unique snow flake with lower muscle mass, a higher body-fat percentage or excessively bulky muscle. It only cares how you move, how you carry loads, how you fight and how tough you are. If we are truly warriors, that's all we care about too.

EDIT: Yep to the intent. The right thing to say while training people? I think so. Imagining yourself through it is one of the best motivators. Can people casevac by dragging instead of carrying? Sure. But surely people follow the intent of the comment.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2015 8:55 AM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 08:55:17 -0400

I agree for the most part. If you can't you should utilize your resources around you, such as your squadmates. His statement is useful to motivate those who may need to improve.

Response by SFC David Zamora made Apr 15 at 2015 9:02 AM

SFC David Zamora — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 09:02:41 -0400

I would have understood it to be a motivational comment and nothing more. Anyone in the formation that was new and didn't have any deployments under their belt may have taken it more literal that but in the Infantry, those types of statements are used all the time. Having been deployed multiple times from Fire Team Leader to PSG, I know, that you don't have a say so on who you do and don't take outside the wire with you as a SL. Exception being that he (the Squad Leader) has a more substantiated reason to transfer that individual out of his squad than "he can't carry me 50m", but even then, he as the SL still has to get the PSG to sign off on the personnel action for whatever reason. So, from the logical standpoint, it just isn't that feasible. Carrying someone 50m in full kit has nothing to do with combat effectiveness.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2015 9:12 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 09:12:45 -0400

I dont agree 100%. I have multiple Soldiers what are in way better shape than I am but there is no way they could "carry" me 50 meters but I would still take them to battle with me.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2015 9:27 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 09:27:38 -0400

I disagree with the "carry". I want the Soldier to be able to remove me from the field but I do not care if they drag, carry or otherwise move me. I am a signal guy and work Soldiers of both sexes. It is unlikely for a Soldier 5'1", 110 pounds to be able to throw me across their back and carry me out. It does not change the fact that we still have to go outside the wire.

Response by MSG Bo Lathrop made Apr 15 at 2015 9:39 AM

MSG Bo Lathrop — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 09:39:29 -0400

The more I think about this, the more irritated I get. Infantrymen join the infantry and know the risks. If I heard this staff sergeant say this, I would probably chew him out.
He wouldn't have a choice as to who goes out on mission with him. If I was there, I would tell him everyone has your back and would do anything physically possible to save your life. Don't threaten soldiers to not be able to go out on mission because they aren't physically able to buddy carry you. The more soldiers you say can't go out on mission because of their physical attributes, the less you have to pull security, and help in a fire fight. I know what he meant, but that shows ignorance. I would have lost some respect for this man, and I'm sure some of his soldiers would have as well.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2015 9:42 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 09:42:59 -0400

This guys is a direct reflection of his leadership. They should all be counseled and held to the same standard as this soldier. I understand that he may have a thyroid issue however we have chaptering process for people with medical conditions that would affect their abilities to carry out the demands of war. He should be sent to a MEB and give him a thank you for your honorable service or whatever applies. We have a job to do as leaders please do it.

Response by Maj Chris Nelson made Apr 15 at 2015 9:44 AM

Maj Chris Nelson — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 09:44:41 -0400

Not sure on this one.... I understand the thoughts and intent, but not the comment. I am a nurse, prior army medic. There are LOTS of folks that I would not have been able to CARRY (like fireman's carry) especially with what is being worn today.... Buddy ASSIST maybe.... remember it is a TEAM effort. I would anticipate that if someone is down, there would be more then 1 person to help drag a fallen comrade off the battlefield....also, in most cases, it isn't a 50 yard carry...it is a few feet or yards to some type of partial cover until the battle is over (then evac the wounded...unless a prolonged battle). The next thought I have is that in most situations, there is 1 medic to cover a team. Do you want the medic to carry the patient? or do you want the medic to direct medical operations and be able to help multiple casualties? Just a few of my personal thoughts...

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Apr 15 at 2015 9:45 AM

TSgt Joshua Copeland — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 09:45:46 -0400

That might be an issue for us in the AF. Our PT test tends to produce folks with the marathon runners build. This is likely why all of our "carries" are now really "Drags" or 2 person carries.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2015 9:49 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 09:49:16 -0400

Who deployed this un-deployable Category V Soldier that's the question. ?

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Apr 15 at 2015 10:42 AM

SGM Erik Marquez — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 10:42:52 -0400

In general that was our rule plus you have to be able to keep up whether we're running walking patrolling for a minute and hour for multiple days if you get Keep up and you can't carry the company 1sg home you ain't leaving the wire.
There are of course exceptions I had some very large not fat but very well-built soldiers and I had some reasonably small ones as well neither of those were out of shape and likely the smallest man could've carried the biggest man but not very far that you were teamwork comes in and utilizing the most appropriate asset for the task at hand

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Apr 15 at 2015 11:56 AM

SGT Ben Keen — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 11:56:56 -0400

This happened to us in 2003. We had a reserve unit attached to us and we got the call to provide convoy security. The plan was to drive down to Kuwait, get to the port pick up some things for this reserve unit that came in after they left Kuwait and come back. The commander of the reserve unit wanted a few of his guys on the convoy to ensure the equiptement was there and to sign for it which we were totally okay with. However, when one of their Soldiers tried to jump in the turret and could barely fit and didn't have the room to move it freely 360 degrees, we told him he was not going with us. There was NO WAY he was mission ready. The commander came over and pulled the convoy commander aside to discuss. The commander thought we were being unfair to his Soldier. However after the convoy leader told the commander that the Soldier was unable to turn the turret 360 degrees freely which put the entire convoy at risk, the commander agreed with us and the Soldier stayed in base camp.

Response by SSG Wally Lawver made Apr 15 at 2015 12:12 PM

SSG Wally Lawver — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 12:12:24 -0400

maybe

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2015 12:13 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 12:13:20 -0400

Looking at the soldier in PT's, I might also say "if I can't buddy carry you then I don't want you to leave the wire with me"

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2015 1:32 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 13:32:30 -0400

In some skill sets/jobs this is a life and death determination, however that did not stop Army Spc. Monica Brown from saving two lives. Even though she could not physically move the two critically injured soldiers on her own, with the assistance of two other injured soldiers she was able to move them to a more secure location and provide life saving aid procedures while waiting for backup. It is soldiers like Spc. Brown that show, regardless of size and gender, merit is based on your actions.

Source: http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=49348

Article View

Official website for U.S. DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2015 2:32 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 14:32:48 -0400

I fault the Army for deploying that SM. While I don't think that a PT score (alone) should be the basis for judging a SM, the Army shouldn't be deploying SMs that are THAT out of shape. All that is doing is putting that SM and the members of their unit in unneeded danger. I'd be willing to be this SM didn't get an award for his tour, either, because he didn't meet the standards of 600-9.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2015 4:38 PM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 16:38:34 -0400

You should be physically fit, and able to drag your buddy to safety, but that's about it.
The OP's idea is not bad in principle, but it doesn't work in practice.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2015 9:55 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 21:55:35 -0400

you want someone physically Fit in an Infantry Unit that you can depend on to be there for you watch your back and if need be haul your butt to safety.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 16 at 2015 3:17 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 16 Apr 2015 03:17:53 -0400

In one aspect of his statement I would agree, Call out in a shoot gun blast about having to carry another soldier in full kit and how some soldiers are sucking. However to say in the statement "you’re not leaving the wire with me" I think was a little much.

It doesn’t send the right message, It sends the message "oh I can’t buddy carry you I don’t have to leave the wire?" instead I would of used the shoot gun blast method and then explain to the Soldier the importance of the buddy carry. Also that we would conduct this type of drill every day or every other day until we are able to buddy carry every soldier in this formation in full it.

Now I do understand everyone is built differently and yes that would also be taking into consideration when conducting the drill. It makes no sense to tell a 100 lbs Soldier to buddy carry a 250 lbs soldier, the math just doesn’t add up.

Response by SGT Alicia Brenneis made Apr 16 at 2015 10:01 AM

SGT Alicia Brenneis — Thu, 16 Apr 2015 10:01:32 -0400

I was am/was a medic and some of you are just too damb big to be put on my shoulders but I sure as hell would (and did) drag your butt to safety. There are more ways to get you to safety than picking you up, giving the enemy one large target made of two soldiers. Not to mention if you are still conscious you have two hands to shoot with and I have at least one (depending on the drag style). Only speaking for my self I could drag a 250lb soldier 100 feet before I seriously felt it in my legs. Obviously the smaller they were the further I could go. The furthest I had to go in the fight was maybe 75-50 feet before someone was close enough to help. We are not one man heroes. Something is wrong if you are ever in a fight and only one solder is carrying/dragging you the entire time. Bless those who can and have but it is a rarity for one soldier to be able to go at it alone.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 16 at 2015 3:43 PM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 16 Apr 2015 15:43:07 -0400

It is not a one man fight in the army, always a team effort. I am pretty sure this is how we were trained.

Response by SGT Frank Leonardo made Apr 16 at 2015 5:56 PM

SGT Frank Leonardo — Thu, 16 Apr 2015 17:56:02 -0400

If you can't carry a battle buddy from battle maybe you should have trained harder on physical training if not maybe your battle buddy you should be someone you can handle

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 16 at 2015 7:21 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 16 Apr 2015 19:21:24 -0400

I agree but to a point. I've deployed with soldiers that were overweight. Sure they are not running a 14m 2-mile but in combat they showed what they're made off. I myself not within weight standards. Overweight by 25-30 lbs. I score a 292 on apft but fail height/weight. Am I unfit to serve in combat because of this? Could I rely on a soldier who weighs 150 dripping wet to drag my ass in full kit to cover 50m? But being overweight isn't the issue, it's soldier ability to perform when he/she is needed. Fitness is important no argument there, but if you can't cover me and do what's ecpected of you( protect brothers/sisters regardless of race, beliefs, height or weight) then you are the useless one.

Response by LCpl Mark Lefler made Apr 17 at 2015 1:35 AM

LCpl Mark Lefler — Fri, 17 Apr 2015 01:35:11 -0400

so and i mean this will all seriousness, the rotund individual in the above meme, is he really in the army active duty at the time of that picture?

Response by CPT Alan W. made Apr 17 at 2015 2:56 AM

CPT Alan W. — Fri, 17 Apr 2015 02:56:45 -0400

It's a great sentiment, but it's not always practical in application.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 17 at 2015 6:25 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 17 Apr 2015 06:25:00 -0400

Lol getting popcorn gonna be good

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 17 at 2015 6:32 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 17 Apr 2015 06:32:23 -0400

While this is a good point we are not created equal in size i know for a fact with combat adrenaline cannot with my load carry arrnold swarzanager or dulff lungrin with full load and they are not fat by any means. And i dont think it would be beneficial for be to try and grow another 12" and gain another 120Lbs of lean muscle.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 17 at 2015 9:10 AM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 17 Apr 2015 09:10:47 -0400

That statement is about encouraging younger service members to step up to the full challenge of what an overseas boots on ground deployment meant, but also to set the expectation that physical performance was not only a personal life issue, but your battle buds life as well. The picture of that obese fella in the picture doesn't represent the military fitness programs that are in place for any branch, and I sincerely doubt hes apart of the armed forces.

Response by SPC David S. made Apr 17 at 2015 10:06 AM

SPC David S. — Fri, 17 Apr 2015 10:06:31 -0400

Being 6'5" and 250 lbs with my kit I would be in the 300 lbs range so I don't think anyone is going to just fling me up and carry me anywhere. However 2 guys dragging me to cover may be more appropriate. However I wouldn't ask or want anyone to risk their life in doing so if it had ever come to that. I would feel for my battle if I were to go down. I get what he's saying and I understand his motivation, I'm just not sure how that would resonate with the smaller guys in the unit.

However the guy in the picture in the PT uniform - WTF!

Response by CPL Jay Freeman made Apr 17 at 2015 10:08 AM

CPL Jay Freeman — Fri, 17 Apr 2015 10:08:45 -0400

So this maybe on the morbid side but this is the reality I had asked my buddy and he asked of me if I had gone down in a firefight and they where unable to recover me would he just shoot me and kill me before I was drug off by the enemy he had asked for the same opsec is very important in the job we do and most of all I don't like the idea of being beheaded torchured or having my family my friends and my buddies seeing it on TV and the people that where there thinking they could have done more. Fact it will always haunt them and different scenarios will run threw inn there heads what could we have done differently but in the end if not recovered in a short time I would have been torchured. These guys don't go by the geniva convention code like us then a possible slow beheading I say please just shoot me my buddy felt the same so I say if you can't get me shoot me. Yes I know we have recovered some of our own in the past but to what measure?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 17 at 2015 10:39 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 17 Apr 2015 10:39:12 -0400

I dont believe that being able to fireman carry someone should determine whether they go outside the wire with you. As an Infantry Officer with over 13 yrs in and multiple combat deployments I wouldn't base my decision on this. Trying to carry someone with full kit while being fired at shouldn't be the determining factor. I would want to know whether the person going out with me would stand his ground and at the enemy if we got in a fight. The last thing I would want is someone curling up and crying for their mama. If they can sling some brass down range, help supress the enemy and win the firefight then buddy carrying becomes a mute point as we will be able to litter carry etc.

Response by CPL Dominic Mancuso made Apr 17 at 2015 11:17 AM

CPL Dominic Mancuso — Fri, 17 Apr 2015 11:17:21 -0400

As a Infantry Vet of Iraq, Afghanistan and Egypt I wholeheartedly agree with this statement.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 17 at 2015 11:55 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 17 Apr 2015 11:55:42 -0400

my initial response was agreeing- that was probably my Grunt mindset coming out to play... the Leader in me says No, thats not a correct assessment. there are multiple people in a unit to share the responsibilty of ensuring everyone comes back together. that being said, i know i weigh a rough 215... not every grunt could carry his pack, weapon and me at the same time so why would i insist a medic or RTO do it?
lets slow down on assumptions and think things out.

Response by SSG Warren Hall made Apr 17 at 2015 12:21 PM

SSG Warren Hall — Fri, 17 Apr 2015 12:21:28 -0400

If you can't Buddy Carry carry your fellow brother out of a bad situation, if he is injured, then, yeah, I agree. You should be able to at a minimum be able to buddy carry someone. I for one would not want to go out of the wire with someone who could not buddy carry me out, if something bad had happened.

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Apr 17 at 2015 12:37 PM

CPT Pedro Meza — Fri, 17 Apr 2015 12:37:49 -0400

I am old school and just retired, but in the 70's-80's with Low Intensity Conflict we did not recognize hostages and saved a bullet for one another in case we could not carry you. We accepted that and removed all ID's and but we all stayed fit and withing weight. In 2005 while in Afghanistan I had a heavy young soldier make that comment about not being able to carry him, I responded with what I wrote above. Interesting thing he started going to the gym. In 2008 while in Farah Afghanistan the 2/7 Marines had to chase the Taliban through irrigation ditches this caused their already heavy gear to become water log and heavier the Taliban the proceed to pick them off, those that survived told that that for four hours they heard the buddies calling out for help as they died but the first attempts to rescue them was met with more wounded. Like it not, I will not send out more soldiers to become casualties for one that is to heavy to carry.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 17 at 2015 12:54 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 17 Apr 2015 12:54:08 -0400

We have a standard for a reason. If you don't meet that standard then keep yourself in the FOB and hit the gym. That's all you need is your buddy "huffing and puffing" when it's time to put "work" in.

Response by MSgt Ian Coon made Apr 17 at 2015 12:56 PM

MSgt Ian Coon — Fri, 17 Apr 2015 12:56:48 -0400

he is reinforcing the importance of being physically fit. Bad stuff happens and if your squad mates can't help you because they are not physically fit enough to drag you or carry you it can cause some resentment. Just my 2 pennies.

Response by CPL Daniel Riggin made Apr 17 at 2015 1:03 PM

CPL Daniel Riggin — Fri, 17 Apr 2015 13:03:23 -0400

If you can't carry me, I will probably die (that's a no go). If I can't carry you, I will failed my brother... and that will never happen!!!

Response by SPC Nate Lamphier made Apr 17 at 2015 2:17 PM

SPC Nate Lamphier — Fri, 17 Apr 2015 14:17:16 -0400

I was in a support company. We had guys who were very good mechanics and thought just because they were good at that they didn't have to worry about being/staying physically fit. Used to drive me crazy and actually to this day still does.

Maybe I'm ignorant, clueless or whatever you want to say....but I'm pretty sure the enemy does not excuse a convoy because they are a bunch of mechanics rolling down the road. They will hit at any time in any terrain....therefore, if you can't be physically able to care for yourself, you definitely won't be able to physically care for anyone else.

So to answer your question CPT Aaron Kletzing ....I would have loved to serve with this SSG you mention.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 17 at 2015 2:52 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 17 Apr 2015 14:52:25 -0400

So what's the standard then? I have met soldiers who are 6'+ and weigh 250+ without kit, am I supposed to be able to move that guy? Or is it more in line with the average 150-175 lb Soldier, saying everyone must be able to carry everyone doesn't make sense. Though I understand the thought process. The army's most decorated hero was a buck 25 soaking wet, let's not forget that. I need Soldiers that are disciples, brave and skilled. I don't need meatheads or elitests.

Response by SSG John Erny made Apr 17 at 2015 3:14 PM

SSG John Erny — Fri, 17 Apr 2015 15:14:31 -0400

There are some very large people in the military and I don't mean fat, the only solution in a case like that is to buddy carry. A folding litter would be of great help also in moving some one.

Response by SSG John Erny made Apr 17 at 2015 3:22 PM

SSG John Erny — Fri, 17 Apr 2015 15:22:51 -0400

So is the guy on the right an IRR recall? Damn!

Response by PFC Scott Harris made Apr 17 at 2015 4:47 PM

PFC Scott Harris — Fri, 17 Apr 2015 16:47:50 -0400

To an extent. We talked about that quite a bit in 91W school. Especially if your a medic or a grunt. You need to be able to move those who need to be moved.

Response by SPC Joel Mason made Apr 17 at 2015 5:34 PM

SPC Joel Mason — Fri, 17 Apr 2015 17:34:53 -0400

If you can't hack it, go into your hut and wack it. The infantrymen will take care of this.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 17 at 2015 6:32 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 17 Apr 2015 18:32:11 -0400

You want assests when you leave the wire, not liabilities!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 17 at 2015 6:54 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 17 Apr 2015 18:54:47 -0400

To a point, I agree. You want physically fit soldiers. Anything less is a liability. But being a competent warfighter isnt just about fitness. If that were the case, any retard in a crossfit gym could do it. Can you shoot? Can you move and communicate? Can you lead? Are you mentally prepared? Berghdahl's PT scores didn't exactly make him a good team member.

Response by CSM Christopher St. Cyr made Apr 17 at 2015 8:09 PM

CSM Christopher St. Cyr — Fri, 17 Apr 2015 20:09:26 -0400

So there was a guy in my last overseas unit who was huge. When I say huge, not only do I mean he was heavy, but he must have been more than a foot taller than me, probably a foot and a half. I don't thing there were too many two man teams that were going to carry him 50 meters in full battle rattle. He probably could have carried two of most of us.

Response by SGT Richard Smith made Apr 17 at 2015 8:14 PM

SGT Richard Smith — Fri, 17 Apr 2015 20:14:35 -0400

While my service predated Iraq, I agree with his statement. Regardless of the larger issues we face as soldiers, our primary motivation is fighting for the soldiers beside us. We are placing our lives in each others hands, part of that is to get a wounded soldier to aid.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 17 at 2015 8:38 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 17 Apr 2015 20:38:23 -0400

I agree, but it might not be that particular ability required for a particular Soldier's role in the mission. For example, I may be far more concerned with other technical can tactical competencies irrespective of your ability to pick me up, at 6' 195 lbs without kit, ammo and weapons. METT-TC dependent.

Response by LCpl David Ross made Apr 17 at 2015 8:52 PM

LCpl David Ross — Fri, 17 Apr 2015 20:52:48 -0400

Should be 100 meters.

Response by MAJ Martin Verboom made Apr 17 at 2015 9:09 PM

MAJ Martin Verboom — Fri, 17 Apr 2015 21:09:22 -0400

Its all METTT-C dependent. People are making assumptions on appearance, any may not know all the facts. Yes, you want Soldiers to be able to take care of you and get out hazardous fire. But maybe he or she can spot IEDs, Ambushes or other hazards like no one else in the organization. So you would not take the individual cause he could not carrier you 50 meters. Where is the leadership in preparing the Soldier before and during the deployment.

i

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2015 2:18 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 18 Apr 2015 02:18:44 -0400

I can see where he is coming from, because outside the wire we are all looking out for one another but at the same time we are not all created equal. I am 5'5" and about 170 lbs and normally I would not try to carry someone who is twice my size, but in a warzone and with the adrenaline pumping there is no telling what a person is capable of. To me this leader sounds a little short sided in his thinking, and because of this he may lose the respect of some of his soldiers because of his thinking. You are never going to be outside the wire alone, that what your battle buddies to the left and the right are there for.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2015 8:07 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 18 Apr 2015 08:07:21 -0400

To me it sounds like something that was said to motivate troops to do better at PT and not something that was for sure and not stop people from going on mission with him.

Response by MSG David Johnson made Apr 18 at 2015 11:00 AM

MSG David Johnson — Sat, 18 Apr 2015 11:00:36 -0400

Adreneline is a funny thing. The mother who lifted the car to save her child, the Soldier who lifted me 5' up into his truck one handed when I came up to his vehiclle after they had been hit by an IED. I was 300+ pounds with gear.
I didn't expect my driver to be able to carry me in a buddy carry me, he weighed in at about 125 soaking wet. It took 8 Soldiers to carry my stretcher to the chopper for MEDEVAC, they probably could have done it with 6.
The way the comment was made would have pissed me off had I been one of his Soldiers, but I understand the spirit of the comment, not the delivery. Something someone could not normally do is an entirely different animal when adreneline is involved.

Response by SPC David Hannaman made Apr 18 at 2015 1:57 PM

SPC David Hannaman — Sat, 18 Apr 2015 13:57:16 -0400

Absolutely (within reason). I had an NCO that was roughly twice my size... I could still carry him. Nobody *wanted to* but we trained and in a pinch I could.

We owe it to our brothers (and sisters) in arms to be able to support them in battle.

Response by SGM Robin Johnson made Apr 18 at 2015 5:59 PM

SGM Robin Johnson — Sat, 18 Apr 2015 17:59:17 -0400

There are (or were, I believe the same carries are being taught) TWELVE different one-person carries that must be demonstrated to earn the Expert Field Medical Badge. Granted, not every Soldier is expected to perform at that level, but it does demonstrate that there are MANY alternative carries which are not only equally effective, but in some cases preferable (part of the standard is to determine which carry is appropriate given the status of the casualty and analysis of the tactical situation).

If the only way a Soldier knows how to evacuate his or her buddy is by "battle-buddy carry" (most likely either fireman or firefighter carry) he or she may end up scrambling for a field expedient method which might cause more harm to the patient in the event of an actual need to evacuate that battle buddy. I would hope units are teaching Soldiers more than one safe way to evacuate their battle buddy.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2015 7:00 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 18 Apr 2015 19:00:41 -0400

If you can't dig deep to move 50 meters at home station how are you going to get it done with bullets flying and people scream in pain.

Response by CPL Doug R made Apr 18 at 2015 11:28 PM

CPL Doug R — Sat, 18 Apr 2015 23:28:13 -0400

Agree to an extent if not fireman carry, buddy carry or drag if possible.

Response by PVT Andy Hardesty made Apr 19 at 2015 6:13 AM

PVT Andy Hardesty — Sun, 19 Apr 2015 06:13:38 -0400

I agree as infantry you dont always have immediate transportation we would buddy carry far more than 50m im a little guy but i sucked it up and performed because your brother next to you depends on the fact you can move him if wounded its life or death not call of duty

Response by SGT Brian Littrel made Apr 19 at 2015 10:35 AM

SGT Brian Littrel — Sun, 19 Apr 2015 10:35:11 -0400

This is not a game. Your buddy counts on you, depends on you, just as you depend on him. You must be in top shape all the time.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 19 at 2015 9:54 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 19 Apr 2015 21:54:49 -0400

You need to know the ones that you roll with can handle getting you out of harm way if needed

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 19 at 2015 11:25 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 19 Apr 2015 23:25:58 -0400

That's why you pick a litter team and let the rest shoot in my opinion I'm 6 foot 240 without gear if you can't carry me don't dry just sling them rounds for the big guy to carry me

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 20 at 2015 3:01 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Apr 2015 03:01:58 -0400

Sorry for my insensitivity, but if your to outside AR 600-9 that one person can't pull you from line of fire then you should be gone. It seems to hard to get people to take their weight/health serious. If you have a medical issue then I'm sorry but you should be medically released from service. Failure to meet weight, failure to maintain military appearance, whatever. Just thank you for your time and please go.

Response by CPT Zachary Brooks made Apr 20 at 2015 2:30 PM

CPT Zachary Brooks — Mon, 20 Apr 2015 14:30:39 -0400

I'd tell him to do full kit PT the next AM and then pick him up for a short run.

Response by SGT Bryon Sergent made Apr 20 at 2015 2:43 PM

SGT Bryon Sergent — Mon, 20 Apr 2015 14:43:03 -0400

At 74" and a little extra weight. I am supposed to be less than 220. I weight 250. Plus 100 Lb Kit that's 350. I don't want my team exhausted and no fight left by carrying me. So I don't go. I'll get the weight off, mean while there are vics to be fixed or washed, or vents in said vics needing cleaned. What I cant work off, Ill sweat off and be ready before long!

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 24 at 2015 2:37 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Apr 2015 14:37:37 -0400

This is a good threshold for members to collectively make the greatest fighting force. For every man to come home, every man needs to be able to meet a minimum requirement as a member of the team. It also enforces the no man left behind rule.

Response by 1SG Michael Bonnett made Apr 24 at 2015 8:58 PM

1SG Michael Bonnett — Fri, 24 Apr 2015 20:58:31 -0400

Life is hard, war is worse and he is correct..

Had a Section Leader when I was just a little PFC who had had 2 men in a 5 man team wounded in a place where teak trees grow and we never officially went to.

They carried one out to the extraction point in a river 5 or 6 miles away and never found their way back to get the first one.. They could not find him.

That Section Leader woke up screaming every week or so as long as I knew him and looked 20 years older than he was...

So yeah, if you can not carry someone one under fire, don't leave the base...

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2015 12:19 PM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Apr 2015 12:19:59 -0400

What a very subjective statement. What If I cannot carry you, what if A cannot Carry B? Pretty soon only two people are left who can carry each other.

If someone is able to fight, let them fight. Improvise, overcome and adapt the obstacle when it presents. Stop planning the way out of action and start planning the way into action.

Response by SPC David Shaffer made Apr 27 at 2015 12:56 PM

SPC David Shaffer — Mon, 27 Apr 2015 12:56:27 -0400

Warrior Ethos

I will always place the mission first.

I will never accept defeat.

I will never quit.

I will never leave a fallen comrade.

I would never leave their side. I would do everything in my power to move them, and if I couldn't, I would stay with them and keep fighting.

Response by Cpl George Goodwin made Apr 29 at 2015 7:05 PM

Cpl George Goodwin — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 19:05:44 -0400

Everyone has their strengths. I have seen a lot of strong people who can not do anything for a length of time. I get where he is going with it but this is not leadership. I would bet if his commanding officer heard this a change in attitude would be directed.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 30 at 2016 11:33 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 30 Apr 2016 11:33:55 -0400

They are harsh words but words that need to be said. In The Soldier's Creed it states "I will never leave a fallen comrade". So if you can't buddy carry your battle to a safe location, then you have no business being outside the wire where you could possibly be put in that particular situation. The fact is that everyone is made differently and that is in no way a bad thing! All I am saying is if you want to serve, then pick an MOS that may not require you to be put in that situation.

Response by SPC Eric Bonkowski made Apr 30 at 2016 1:12 PM

SPC Eric Bonkowski — Sat, 30 Apr 2016 13:12:02 -0400

It's all a team effort you must be able to help pull the load, however it would be ridiculous to expect that from most people in my case, well over 300 pounds in kit.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 30 at 2016 7:12 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 30 Apr 2016 19:12:59 -0400

I'm one of those few guys who can carry just about anyone (up to 315 lbs) for 50 meters in kit. I've busted my ass to get there. The draw back is my size. That power comes in at 240lbs. With kit 275 to 280. Who can carry that?

Response by PO1 Steven Durette made Apr 30 at 2016 7:21 PM

PO1 Steven Durette — Sat, 30 Apr 2016 19:21:01 -0400

Absolutely concur.

Response by SFC James Massey made Apr 30 at 2016 7:49 PM

SFC James Massey — Sat, 30 Apr 2016 19:49:18 -0400

I do not agree. Although leaving a soldiers kit pack behind is not ideal in any situation, the most important thing is to get the soldier to safety and to medical assistance if needed. It is the soldier that is of most importance, not the equipment in the pack.

Response by SPC Scott Hillyer Hillyer made May 1 at 2016 2:40 PM

SPC Scott Hillyer Hillyer — Sun, 01 May 2016 14:40:18 -0400

Your life dependeds on it. We are the military not Boy Scouts.

Response by CPL Kendall Barry made May 1 at 2016 5:11 PM

CPL Kendall Barry — Sun, 01 May 2016 17:11:06 -0400

He's 100% right when the bullets start flying if you can't save your brother by pulling him out you are useless and have no reason being their

Response by SSgt Paul Esquibel made Jan 15 at 2019 9:24 PM

SSgt Paul Esquibel — Tue, 15 Jan 2019 21:24:08 -0500

I agree with this statement I believe that all persons should be able to at least drag someone if need be in order to save their life You don’t need to be a bodybuilder you don’t need to be in exceptional peak performance of doing a spartan race but you do need to be able to use your bodyweight adrenaline and pull some of the safety if you have to