If you get an article 15 during a chapter from the army would you still have to wait until your extra duty is over before being discharged?

PV2 Austin Lohmann — Sun, 02 Aug 2020 13:09:37 -0400

I was suppost to to be leaving the Army July 31st. It got kicked back and my chain of command is giving me an article 15 right before leaving. Are they just trying to screw me over before I leave? Nobody informed me this would be happening right before im suppost to be discharged from the army. I feel like my chain of command is taking advantage of me because im getting an honorable and they want to destroy my motivation.

Response by A1C Jordan Brenner made Aug 2 at 2020 1:11 PM

A1C Jordan Brenner — Sun, 02 Aug 2020 13:11:12 -0400

Yes — they’re against you. Only thing you can do is not give them anything. Keep your composure.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2020 1:14 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 02 Aug 2020 13:14:28 -0400

If your command is starting Article 15 proceedings, then you have done something that goes against the UCMJ. Regardless of you being chaptered out, you did something that warrants a punishment. It’s not to destroy your motivation, it’s to enforce and maintain the standards. You will serve your punishment, then get out.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2020 1:17 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 02 Aug 2020 13:17:09 -0400

And if it’s for SUDC failure, which is a violation of article 92, failure to obey a lawful order, you have to receive some sort of punishment

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2020 1:26 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 02 Aug 2020 13:26:20 -0400

You are leaving the Amy, soon.
No one in the Army is interested in "destroying your motivation" on your way to the civilian world, or doing hours of extra paperwork just to "screw over" someone who won't be their problem in a month.

If your chapter case involved a violation of UCMJ, your command would be derelict of duty if they had not brought an Art 15.
They do have the option of suspending the punishment.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2020 1:28 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 02 Aug 2020 13:28:09 -0400

Aren't you the guy that pissed hot and failed a urine drug test? If the Chapter packet was kicked back, then something was wrong with the packet. But if an Article 15 is being recommended/given, then you violated the Manuals of Court Martial/UCMJ somehow. Could be the hot piss test is the reason for the Article 15, who knows. You will certainly know when you go in front for your initial reading. Look, your ETS can be put on hold pending UCMJ resolution. I once knew a guy in Germany that was at the Frankfurt Airport...LITERALLY WALKING ONTO THE PLANE to fly back to the States....when he was detained by MPs for drug use and possession of drug paraphernalia. He was brought back to face UCMJ actions.

But, if you really want to know, then go to JAG and speak with a Defense Lawyer.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2020 1:59 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 02 Aug 2020 13:59:21 -0400

This is something that I have actually dealt with. If you have a separation date already and they give you more days of additional duty beyond the separation date they will have to amend it. It is not that hard pushing back a separation date. If you think it is not fair you can always take it to court martial unless it's a summarized. I would make sure to talk to legal about this when you have your opportunity.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2020 2:17 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 02 Aug 2020 14:17:49 -0400

You cannot be retained past your ETS unless it’s for a court martial.
Your Command team doesn’t care about your discharge type. All ETS separations are an Honorable discharge.
If you are currently past your ETS then your command will need to execute an antedated extension with a memo from your Brigade Commander explaining how your command team failed to plan for your separation. If by “leave the Army” you meant sign out on leave, leave is at the discretion of the commander.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Aug 2 at 2020 2:45 PM

SGM Erik Marquez — Sun, 02 Aug 2020 14:45:52 -0400

The answer is it depends.

If the unit decides that the chapter is simply a uniform requirement and they hold no ill will toward you it’s likely you will transition out as planned.

If they decide your transgression needs to be made an example of they may go through the pain of changing your discharge date and letting you serve out your article 15 punishment

If they decide you’re more of a problem I’m around an ethical or otherwise an issue to the rest of the command they’ll probably allow you to discharge at your normal day because it’s for the betterment of the service

Response by Maj John Bell made Aug 2 at 2020 8:19 PM

Maj John Bell — Sun, 02 Aug 2020 20:19:34 -0400

I have dealt with Marines who were being discharged, who assumed that their status gave them a lot of room for behavioral nonsense. They assumed that they could get away with things because the command would not want to delay their discharge. They assumed wrong.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Aug 2 at 2020 11:08 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Sun, 02 Aug 2020 23:08:16 -0400

1. The minute UCMJ proceedings start- all personnel actions freeze in place- every thing stops.. 2, Your motivation doesn't count, and if it was any good then they wouldn't be trying to get rid of you. 3. Suggest you read the UCMJ manual= it shows no slack, no 2nd chances, no redo's. If found guilty - you will be flagged from all personnel actions until after the sentence is served. The Cdr is the only one to cut some slack during the sentencing phase

Response by SSG Brian G. made Aug 3 at 2020 1:03 AM

SSG Brian G. — Mon, 03 Aug 2020 01:03:32 -0400

O-k. First off. You say that you were due to get chaptered out of the Army July 31st but it got kicked back for some reason.

Going to be blunt but you getting chaptered and then getting an Article 15 during your final days makes you seriously sound like a fuck up that the Army cannot get rid of soon enough.

To clue you in, the Army is not screwing you, you are screwing you because you did something to warrant an Article 15 in the first place. And sorry but yes, they did inform you because to GET an Article 15 you have to be apprised of it and an appointment with JAG has to be made so they can counsel you on your options and legal status vis a vis the Article 15.

As your discharge got kicked back, you belong to the Army until they get your paperwork right and if that happens to mean that you have to serve extra duty prior to that happening then yes, that is what happens. However the Army cannot arbitrarily extend your enlistment just to serve ED. If you are due to get kicked on say the 5th of Aug and you get read an Article 15 that assigns 45 days of ED starting on the 4th, then the Army just gets stiffed out of the ED duty. You are a civilian.

Destroy your motivation? Motivation for what? Clearly that was already crap to begin with otherwise you would not be getting chaptered or getting Article 15's.

Response by MAJ John Lavin made Aug 3 at 2020 7:05 AM

MAJ John Lavin — Mon, 03 Aug 2020 07:05:35 -0400

I think it’s time you familiarize yourself with Title 10 of the US Code. A less than dishonorable discharge can not be given unless the person serves his or her enlistment tour with so many good time days. Any bad time days, for any reason, don’t count toward this legal requirement. So think of it this way. Someone out there, for what ever reason, is giving you a real break that from the tone of you post is a lot more than you deserve. You are not getting screwed. You are getting a big time, nice person break that will benefit you for the rest of your life. So my recommendation? Shut the hell up and go with the flow because someone is doing you one hell of a favor.

Response by SSG Watis Ekthuvapranee made Aug 3 at 2020 12:08 PM

SSG Watis Ekthuvapranee — Mon, 03 Aug 2020 12:08:32 -0400

Oh yeah, they can. Just because you are leaving doesn't mean you can misbehave. However, if you think that the Art. 15 is unjust, you can rebuttal it. Then your charge(s) will be decided at the court martial, which they can delay your discharge. They will have to extend your ETS to until the court martial is completed. In the mean time, if you are a flight risk, you can be in a lock down, house arrest, with a guard. On the other hand, if you accept the punishment, you will be outprocessing during the day and after dismiss you have to report to SDNCO or CQ for your extra duty. Pick your hell, Son.

Response by SSG Roger Ayscue made Aug 3 at 2020 1:47 PM

SSG Roger Ayscue — Mon, 03 Aug 2020 13:47:45 -0400

I don't think it is an attempt to destroy your motivation at all. And as it is that Facts don't care about feelings, just from what we can see from this post, you got into trouble and are getting Chaptered out of the Army for whatever you did that was in violation of the UCMJ. Despite the fact that you are getting a chapter, you still went out and I would guess, not being privy to your file, that you went out and violated the Army's long-standing prohibition against the use of controlled substances. Just a guess. So my questions to you are 1) What part of you are already in trouble escaped your realization AND 2) What part of Whatever you did is against Army regulations.
Sorry to be so blunt but, this is a pattern of misconduct. It would not surprise me if the Army hits you up again, makes you stay in until you pay the fines and do every minute of the extra duty. If I were your commander that is what I would make sure of, NOT to de-motivate you but to serve as an example to other Privates in the unit that common sense is a required commodity.

Response by SGT Herbert Bollum made Aug 3 at 2020 3:37 PM

SGT Herbert Bollum — Mon, 03 Aug 2020 15:37:02 -0400

I knew a guy getting out on a Chapter 13 or 14 and he was ready to board his flight from South Korea to home. I reported some information to MPs that I overheard and they brought him back to face court martial where he then was sentenced to retraining brigade and had to finish out his full enlistment.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 3 at 2020 3:59 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 03 Aug 2020 15:59:08 -0400

I can't see a commander going out of his way to screw someone over. They just have so much other crap to do.

That said, there are problem soldiers that cause other crap for the commander to do, and clearly you are in that category.

Sounds like you went outside of a quarantine zone to buy a car clearly in violation of a direct order trying to contain COVID-19. If you brought CV-19 back with you and your commander did nothing about it, and it was found out he knew about your violation and resulting spread of CV-19 to your unit and those around well, now your commander’s career is destroyed.

Basically, the actions being levied against you are actions of your superiors to protect themselves from your irresponsibility blowing back in their face. All you had to do is sit on your hands and play the game and you’d be out. Your actions place at risk the careers of those above you so they have to cover their own collective asses.

When a problem soldier like that crosses my path, I don’t go out of my way, but when they put themselves in the crosshairs I will absolutely pull the trigger.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 5 at 2020 2:46 AM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 05 Aug 2020 02:46:51 -0400

The answer is nobody on active duty gives a crap about you after you leave. You’re a PV2 getting a discharge. The Army decides your separation date so they can adjust it as they need to. Bunch of idiots act like fools thinking they are already getting separated so what are they going to do? Well, they can stick it even deeper till you cry uncle! So your honorable can easily turn to a general or big chicken dinner.

Response by SSG Shawn Mcfadden made Sep 27 at 2020 7:07 PM

SSG Shawn Mcfadden — Sun, 27 Sep 2020 19:07:34 -0400

You've been listening to your Barracks Lawyer? You are still part of that unit until you OFFICIALLY LEAVE. PERIOD.