If you have deployed, do you choose to wear your deployment patch or not?

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Jan 2014 14:18:57 -0500

A few days ago I overheard some soldiers talking about a new NCO that just got to their company. They went on about how he did not have a deployment patch on and how they didnt feel like he was an adequate leader because he had not yet deployed. Have any of you heard this from your soldiers, and why would you choose to not wear your deployment patch?

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2014 2:21 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Jan 2014 14:21:45 -0500

I have heard this and in fact I originally thought the same way as soldiers you mentioned. However, I have since ran into several great NCO's that have not had the opportunity to deploy.

Response by 1SG Steven Stankovich made Jan 22 at 2014 2:54 PM

1SG Steven Stankovich — Wed, 22 Jan 2014 14:54:33 -0500

I wear my patch from my first deployment.  I wear it because I am damn proud of my Soldiers that I served with on that deployment (Alpha Troop, 3-4 CAV, 4th Platoon).  I keep in touch with all of my guys from back then.  Our unit has some rich history with valorous duty during Vietnam.  We actually had the Alpha Troop 3/4 CAV guidon that they carried during Vietnam with us in Afghanistan.  Very proud of those guys and that unit. I do not wear it as some sort of "validation of adequacy" from subordinates, peers or seniors.  A patch does not provide that.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2014 4:06 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Jan 2014 16:06:49 -0500

I personally have a choice of two. The 173rd or the 82nd. I would never wear the 82nd combat patch even if my life depended on it. The 173rd will always be represented on my uniform. In regards to your question some soldiers may not have pride in their unit that they deployed with.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Jan 22 at 2014 4:21 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Wed, 22 Jan 2014 16:21:09 -0500

Do I always wear mine? Sure do. As the old saying goes, you only get one chance at a first impression.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2014 8:12 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Jan 2014 08:12:29 -0500

Perhaps he was just promoted to SGT based on merit and hadn't had the opportunity to deploy yet.  Deployment experience isn't the only adequate indicator of leadership ability, and anyone who tells you otherwise is sadly mistaken.  

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2014 10:09 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Jan 2014 10:09:54 -0500

I feel that while having deployed makes you more well rounded the absence of a deployment doesn't detract from one's ability to lead. Leadership is defined by action and example

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2014 8:49 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Jan 2014 20:49:49 -0500

My question WAS for those who don't wear a patch, WHY do you choose to not wear it. That's all I wanted to know

Response by CW2 Joseph Evans made Jan 23 at 2014 9:42 PM

CW2 Joseph Evans — Thu, 23 Jan 2014 21:42:03 -0500

Depends on the unit... There is a unit I have deployed with that had it been the only unit I deployed with, I would never wear a combat patch.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2014 9:44 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Jan 2014 21:44:33 -0500

Having a patch does not mean you are a better soldier, it means you were
deployed and that's it.

Those I have met who don't patch are the "cool kids" who don't think they need to prove anything to you. Kinda like being a tactical hipster. The uniform gives soldiers only a few ways to stick out and be an individual and this is one of them.

I tried the patchless look (even patchless with a CAB once) and it wasn't for me. In my last office myself and a few other MAJs did have “POG patch Mondays” were we would wear the patch we were least proud of.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2014 11:01 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Jan 2014 23:01:41 -0500

My past 3 assignments I have reported with a sterile uniform.  It is important for me to earn respect and acknowledgement based on the work and duties performed.  Once the boss has a Class A/ACU inspection I then wear patches and badges.  It shows some humility and my desire to earn respect based on performance rather than letting previous career opportunities speak for my competence.

Response by SSG Joe Jordan made Jan 24 at 2014 12:23 AM

SSG Joe Jordan — Fri, 24 Jan 2014 00:23:15 -0500

I have a couple to choose from also. The deployment patch I chose to wear is the 82nd. First, because of the long and credited honors, lineage and distinction the Division has. The second, is because my dad and forefathers served with them in Vietnam and WWII. I guess all said and done is due to my family's heritage with such a great military history and serving this great nation through good and bad times of combat. I've been in other units that have had great leaders & Soldiers alike that paid the ultimate sacrifice.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2014 6:17 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Jan 2014 06:17:03 -0500

I don't blame the Soldiers totally, the culture in Airborne/Infantry units is to blame and also these long wars. I wear mine to remind of the guys that made the ultimate sacrifice and also having spent my whole career in Airborne units I will be a liar if I say I don't like the impression it creates.

Response by SGT Chris Hill made Jan 25 at 2014 9:43 AM

SGT Chris Hill — Sat, 25 Jan 2014 09:43:07 -0500

Those Soldiers should be verbally counseled about how other units operate, I for instance was in a unit for 4 years straight, same people, same leadership, just different faces here and there. We never deployed, and we all had great NCO's and officers, but our unit just wasn't going to be deployed, other than BN rotations to Korea and back conus. Wearing a patch doesn't effect leadership ability and those Soldiers should be taught that. That's what develops poisonous leadership and unfortunately not everyone will be deployed so we as leaders cannot teach nor allow soldiers to feel that a leader not wearing a combat patch is less of a leader. How would those soldiers feel if that NCO had a EIB or ranger tab and told them and other leaders that they're not real leaders because they don't have what he has? That would begin a whole other debate

Response by SPC Padraic Lukowski made Feb 26 at 2014 11:53 PM

SPC Padraic Lukowski — Wed, 26 Feb 2014 23:53:28 -0500

Truth be told, the reason I didn't wear my deployment patch more often then not was because I was just sick and tired of having my Mountain tab ripped off by the velcro of passers-by, or by small limbs whilst out in the woods durring training or some such. I also didn't want to have to pay to have my 10th Mtn patch sewn together, as I couldn't find any ready made.

Besides, I already had two campaign stars on my Iraq ribbon but only one stripe on each arm with my Class A's. As long as I had the orders, the various CSM couldn't do much but grimace durring inspection time. As far as I am concerned, if I had the option, I wouldn't even have put my deployment patch on there, either, but it would have looked funky as all get out to have a campain ribbon but no patch.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 27 at 2014 12:34 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 27 Feb 2014 00:34:22 -0500

I have to start out by saying that, as an NCO, if I heard Soldiers being disrespectful towards another NCO, I would have made an instant on the spot correction. A combat patch is just a piece of cloth worn on the sleeve; it does not indicate performance in combat, knowledge and competence as a leader, or anything else. I have seen a Soldier who earned combat patches because he was in theater, but he was so bad at being a Soldier (he 'lost' his assigned weapon 3 separate times among other misconduct), that he was punished under UCMJ while deployed, twice, then discharged, all from Afghanistan.

On the other hand, I have met some of the most professional, competent, and respectable NCOs who had not yet deployed simply due to assignment history. One of them was SSG Adam Dickmyer. SSG Dickmyer was hands-down one of the best NCOs I have ever known. We met as junior soldiers in the same platoon in the Honor Guard. He went on to become one of the best Soldiers in our unit, earned the Tomb of the Unknown Soldiers Tomb Guard badge, was recognized time and again for his professionalism and dedication, and then PCS'd to Ft. Campbell as a SSG. We met back up on our deployment to Afghanistan, which was his first deployment. SSG Dickmyer was the first Tomb Guard killed in action since Vietnam, and he was without a doubt one of the best NCOs in the Army.

So having said that, I would have a problem with any Soldier who makes an assessment of a Soldier simply based on whether there was a patch on the right sleeve of their uniform. We need to make sure Soldiers understand that there is a lot more that goes into being a good NCO than simply having a combat patch.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 6 at 2014 1:50 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 06 Mar 2014 13:50:43 -0500

There could be a variety of reasons why a person chooses not to wear their combat patch. War effects us all in a different manner and who knows what that NCO has experienced while deployed if deployed. I wear the combat patch of the unit in which I endured alot with. Not out of disrepect of any other units I have deployed with but that unit holds a special place in my heart. I will never forget the things we endured during those two deployements.

As for Soldiers, they should drive on and listen to the leaders that lead them. I deployed to combat for the first time in 2005. However, I was recruiting for four years prior to that. A combat patch does not say that a person is the best leader. Plus the harsh reality is not everyone that's wearing a combat patch actually saw combat. There are a select few that can say yes I have been fired at and I fired back.

Response by SSG Chris B. made Mar 6 at 2014 2:34 PM

SSG Chris B. — Thu, 06 Mar 2014 14:34:11 -0500

I wear mine from my first deployment with pride. I was extremely proud to deploy with the B Co. Sugarbears out of Alaska. Still Have the Flight Patch hanging on the sun shade in my truck.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 7 at 2014 10:41 AM

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 07 Mar 2014 10:41:59 -0500

I have know several service members who have deployed and choose not to wear the patch. They have been on multiple deployments and it is their choice to not wear a patch. I have heard others discuss the fact they do not wear one and assume they have never deployed. They don't mind the assumptions and have proven their ability to work based on their work ethic overtime instead of their combat patch. None of them have hid the fact they have deployed, it's just their personal preference not to wear a patch.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 8 at 2014 3:25 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 08 Sep 2014 15:25:41 -0400

Usually when I hear people complaining about a combat patch it's about which ones they can and cannot wear. Though I can understand how not having deployed can reflect on you. For our leaders, we want and need someone who we can look to when the going gets tough. You select people for leadership who you are confident can handle the mission at its worst not only to come through alive, but bring their Soldiers out as well, it is very hard to see this in a person if you don't know how they can handle a combat deployment. If an NCO has not deployed I would expect there to be something else in that person's history that would qualify someone to lead even with the lacking deployment. That qualification would have to impress the hell out of me. Typically in the last decade and the military optempo of deployments it would be rare to see an NCO without a deployment done. In all honesty my first thought would be that he/she somehow dodged out of deploying, therefore I would not want them to be in a leadership position.

Response by SGT Michael Glenn made Jan 26 at 2015 9:18 PM

SGT Michael Glenn — Mon, 26 Jan 2015 21:18:28 -0500

I had a very good friend I met in Korea..was a SPC... craziest dude you ever wanted to meet and the coolest.He never spoke about past units and when he wore his greens it was barren of anything but the basic items. Watching him one had the feeling something was amiss because of the way he carried himself with everything he did. The day he left the unit he waltzed into the company CQ wearing his greens and man was it loaded !!! AA, AB, Ranger tab, German shutzenshnuer,too many ribbons to count to include purple heart and a lot of stars on many ribbons. He had a 3 ring binder in his hand and was approached by the CO and a few LT's who immediately proceeded to grill him about this sudden change. I watched the disgust in my commanders eyes as this SPC calmly laid the binder on the desk and said very calmly " read em and weep sir". he had documentation for everything! When he was asked why he never let anyone know he replied that he didnt feel like the unit was worth a plug nickle and was glad to be leaving to a real unit. He went on to say that from what he had experienced/saw he chose to not let it be known as the commander always had a way of calling people out to do bs stuff if they were "stacked" which was true.... I guess there are two sides to every coin.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 11:07 AM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 27 Jan 2015 11:07:15 -0500

I have two to choose from. I wear my 10th Mountain patch because the bond I shared with the people I deployed with is strong and I still stay in touch with those with whom I was closest.

I will not wear my 101st patch because I was repeatedly prevented from going to the promotion board by my PSG, despite having won honors for my unit by winning Soldier of the Month, BN Soldier of the Quarter, and placed 3rd at the Brigade SOQ board (out of 9 other junior enlisted, where 1st, 2nd, and 3rd places were differentiated by 3 points). I also did not feel the same bond with the people I deployed with that I did on my first deployment.

Also, "Old Abe" should not be facing backward. No more than the US Flag's Union should be facing the rear.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2015 11:18 AM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 27 Jan 2015 11:18:04 -0500

I keep learning things about the Army. The Air Force equivalent to the ACU, the Airmen Battle Uniform (ABU) does not have any patches, only rank, name tape, service, and career badge. The flight suit similarly does not have a bunch of additional patches, typically only name, major command (Air Combat Command, Air Mobility Command, Air Education and Training Command...etc), the wing patch, and the squadron patch...and all those patches match the current assignment, not previous ones.

The only way you could really tell an airman who has deployed is by giving scrutiny to their ribbon rack when they are in service dress...which we don't wear all that often.

Response by SGT Jim Z. made Jan 27 at 2015 12:18 PM

SGT Jim Z. — Tue, 27 Jan 2015 12:18:05 -0500

What is a deployment patch? I have heard of SSI-FWTS (Combat Patch) I deployed frequently but I was never authorized a combat patch.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 9 at 2015 10:09 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 09 Feb 2015 22:09:56 -0500

Many don't like what they did on deployment. Some don't like to further the stigma that you only know what you are talking about if you have one.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2015 7:12 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 Feb 2015 07:12:36 -0500

I see a lot of Soldiers doing the same thing that MAJ Private RallyPoint Member does when he reports to a new duty station. He has his reasons and I am sure he is proud of his accomplishments but, I will tell you the first impression is a lasting impression. Most of your senior leadership sees you in snapshots, you should do your best to frame yourself.

You earn every award, badge and patch you receive in the service. You should be proud and display everything that's authorized to be worn. Your Soldiers look at you and want to be like you (if you are a good leader). Your accomplishments will encourage them to ask questions which will allow you to tell your story and the Army story.

You will earn respect for doing your job regardless of whether you are wearing your "trinkets" or not just ensure you do not just rest on what you have done, always strive do be better.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Mar 15 at 2015 11:36 PM

COL Charles Williams — Sun, 15 Mar 2015 23:36:18 -0400

Yes, and Yes. I have also worn sterile uniforms. I am proud of all the units I have served with in combat, and all the Soldiers I served with. It is also a testament to those who gave their last full measure of devotion.

If I was king, I would do away with combat patches and badges on the field uniform.

Response by MSG William Wold made Mar 15 at 2015 11:50 PM

MSG William Wold — Sun, 15 Mar 2015 23:50:30 -0400

Long time and far far away, I went to Vietnam. We wore the leaning outhouse patch where I was. Then we all went to the USARV patch just before I was sent back to the states. I call it the "Used to be patch". Sounded similar and it no longer exists. That was on my shoulder till the day I left service, 33 years later. The last 15 or so no one knew what it was. Most of my watercraft unit was deployed to Kuwait for pre-staging equipment; I was left home to mind the store; I don't wear anything for that because I didn't deploy though I was activated for rear detachment, then VA finally caught up with the Vietnam paperwork and did something with it, then that made me non deployable and was discharged. Don't know what they do now or how the new "work" or combat uniform works or what silly acronym that have come up with this time . Don't rightly care either, I finally got my Reserve retirement 3 years ago.
Fun part after 30 was getting enough longevity stripes in a row on one sheet to get them sewed on my class A's, with short arms, and MSG rank, they darn near collided..

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 28 at 2015 4:53 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 28 Mar 2015 16:53:53 -0400

Personally I do not usually wear it, because it is often a distraction. It's personal to me and I get tired of being judged based on a patch. Those close to me know what I've done and seen, I don't need a patch to be validated. That and I've seen a lot of guys who live off their past, and I don't think that's the right way to lead. Fact is, most new Soldiers won't have the opportunity to deploy any time soon. That doesn't make them less than me just because I have.

All that said, when I'm working law enforcement I will usually wear it. It lends a certain bit of credibility when working cases, and makes it easier for some people to open up if they know I've been where they've been. Besides that though, not really something I wear all the time.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 1 at 2015 10:01 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 01 Apr 2015 22:01:41 -0400

I haven't heard this from any of my Soldiers, but I can personally attest to the fact that there have been some Officers and J/SNCO's that have interacted with me better because I have one

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 1 at 2015 10:03 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 01 Apr 2015 22:03:41 -0400

I wear my patch but it wouldn't bother me if I didn't. I do not feel that I really earned my patch since all I did while depoyled was baby-sit detainees.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2016 10:07 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 22:07:39 -0400

I respect NCOs who are leaders, regardless of whether or not they have deployed. I have never deployed, but my parents have. I have learned that deployments teach you things that you may not otherwise learn in your current setting. Soldiers also have to remember that everyone joined the Army at different times and the soldiers may have more TIS than their NCOs. Therefore, it i possible that they have deployed and their NCOs have not. I have learned that this is common.

Response by SFC Bruce Pettengill made Jul 1 at 2016 1:46 PM

SFC Bruce Pettengill — Fri, 01 Jul 2016 13:46:00 -0400

I think you should have immediately taken the opportunity to use this as a training moment and teach those soldiers that its not important on what is on the outside of the uniform, but the NCO in it. Does not matter if deployed or not or just chooses not to wear a deployment patch, he is an NCO a deserves to be treated as such

Response by SGT Frances Richardson made Jul 1 at 2016 7:32 PM

SGT Frances Richardson — Fri, 01 Jul 2016 19:32:14 -0400

Actually I have heard this but only when we were deploying and they were going to make a senior NCO (SFC) our platoon sergeant but he had never deployed before.

Personally, in the case that I mentioned above, I think it's important to have someone who has experience with a deployment. However, in garrison I don't believe it should matter. I have been stopped and "talked" to many times from SSG to CSM (and a warrant thrown in there somewhere) because I didn't want to wear my combat patch. If I was any kind of decent NCO, I really doubt that it had anything to do with any of my deployments.

Response by SGT Tal Wick made Jul 3 at 2016 10:04 AM

SGT Tal Wick — Sun, 03 Jul 2016 10:04:18 -0400

I earned my "Combat patch" during OIF2 with 1-12 Cavalry in Sadr city, Iraq. Forward to my next unit an FSB where we had a patch ceremony in Kuwait for being there 30 days, which evidently qualified for the "Combat patch". I was unit historian, in addition to being a medic. While taking photos for the ceremony, my Colonel came up to me and said that I had to remove my Cavalry patch and put on the unit's patch. I refused, which made the Colonel angry. The CSM stepped in when the Colonel reached for my patch to tear it off my uniform and I said to her touch that patch and I will break your arm. I wear that patch respectfully for the brothers and sisters I have fought beside, lost, laughed and cried with during that time and no-one will sully that for some dog and pony show. The CSM took the Colonel away and explained why not to push the issue but, that it was also against regulations. That I had the choice of what "Combat patch" to wear or not wear any.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 4 at 2016 3:17 PM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 04 Jul 2016 15:17:03 -0400

I don't have soldiers, but I am a junior enlisted and I have heard this from some of my fellow troops. I, too, once believed that you weren't up to snuff, if you hadn't deployed and I most certainly believed it was a prestigious thing (not saying that it isn't), but my point is, it most certainly does NOT make you a better leader. I have met a few NCOs who have deployed and I certainly have questioned their leadership abilities. So, to sum up, one does equate to the other, in this case.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 8 at 2016 11:01 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Jul 2016 11:01:30 -0400

Reposted my response.

Response by SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM made Nov 22 at 2016 1:03 PM

SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM — Tue, 22 Nov 2016 13:03:17 -0500

NOCs earned their stripes deployment or no deployments, this takes skills and NCOEs, which the soldiers do not have, now the soldiers just happened to be at a spot in their career wear they earned a combat patch and some upper leadership skills that will help them when they become NCO someday, If I ever was ever in that sergeants position and soldiers with a combat patch tried to tell me my job, him and I would be doing some old school counseling, to this day NCO Corps is not given the respect that they have earned.

So if you have deployed be proud to wear your deployed patch you fought for your country and earn the right to wear that patch. If you was a good soldier or leader anyone that comes to your unit that is not wear a combat patch. You first welcome them with open arms share your knowledge with them and coach and teach and mentor them because it sometimes can really wear on a person when they are singled out.STEPHENS

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2020 12:25 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Apr 2020 12:25:24 -0400

I very frequently choose not to wear a SSI-FWTS, despite the fact I earned the right to wear one. I deployed to Afghanistan in 2014-2015 in support of Operation Enduring Freedom/Operation Freedom's Sentinel. I like to throw people off by not wearing my combat patch.
I am proud of what I did overseas and believe it has helped make me a better Soldier and a better leader, but I don't necessarily think it's the be-all, end-all. As a young Soldier/cadet, I had a SFC tell me that the most important things on my uniform should be my name and my rank. I didn't initially know what he meant, but have since come to know what he meant; it's who you are and not what you've done that should define you. There are some great leaders who do not have combat experience. But unfortunately, Joes don't always see through that.

Response by CPT William Jones made Jan 4 at 2021 2:59 PM

CPT William Jones — Mon, 04 Jan 2021 14:59:13 -0500

First anytime a soldier is sent outside the States you are DEPLOYED.that is the definition of deployed. Sometimes they are shooting at people where you are deployed I. E. Republic of Vietnam. Some times you get a DEPLOYMENT to a nice place I.E NATO Hq in Brussels. Both places the troops are DEPLOYED there from the States.The unit patch worn on the right sleeve is NOT A DEPLOYMENT PATCH. It is a patch that sys the soldier was in a designated hostile fire zone.

Response by SPC Edward Logan made Jul 7 at 2021 10:30 PM

SPC Edward Logan — Wed, 07 Jul 2021 22:30:34 -0400

In the 1980s the only deployment patches were earned in Vietnam, perhaps Somalia but I was out by then.