If you knew that joining the Military, you would not get paid, would you still Join?

2013-12-01T10:47:52-05:00

I been meaning to ask this question to other veterans and SM for some time.

The question is not a trick question, it is a question that you will have to be honest with yourself only and not me.

there are no right or wrong answers.

Reason: The day I took my oath, I was at Ft. Hamilton, Brooklyn, on my way to the La Guardia airport to go to reception station at Ft. Sill OK. I had the records of about 8 members on my hands. During the flight on a 727 I looked out the window and started thinking of finding a job t be able to pay the Army back for all this training I was going to get. I never asked anyone about pay and I didn't know I was going to get paid until I got my first check shortly after completing in processing.

So for me the answer is : Yes to this question.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 1 at 2013 10:54 AM

2013-12-01T10:54:23-05:00

When I was 17 year old yes.

Today......I'm already getting calls about my resume if things aren't working out.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Dec 1 at 2013 9:52 PM

2013-12-01T21:52:24-05:00

So 20 years of volunteer work, 14-16 hours a day, no ability to get a second job, and no way to feed or house my family? I don't know that any sane human being would do that. Principles and philosophical positions are nice, but have to take a distant second to practical considerations, like food, shelter, water, etc...

Response by CH (CPT) Heather Davis made Dec 1 at 2013 10:05 PM

2013-12-01T22:05:29-05:00

Absolutely, I joined when I was 17, and my Father was
15; every generation in my family served. It is an honor and a duty to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America.

Response by LTC Jason Bartlett made Dec 1 at 2013 10:47 PM

2013-12-01T22:47:49-05:00

Obviously when I joined I was not married nor did I have any responsibilities so my answer would be "yes" because it (at least for me) has been so much fun. But I will be the first to admit getting paid to be in the Infantry is a pretty good gig.

Response by CW2 Joseph Evans made Dec 1 at 2013 11:16 PM

2013-12-01T23:16:39-05:00

Those who volunteer for service are the true Defenders of the Republic. Still, to have your needs provided for while serving is an expected consideration and the pay scale is the means by which the US Congress has decided to insure those needs are met.
Still, the pay scale offered to Senior Officers seems to lend to an extravagant lifestyle I find ill suited for public service. Of course, I have the same complaint for federal level politicians...
The paycheck was not my primary consideration, but upon finding out some of my expenses were coming out of pocket, it was nice to have.

Response by SSG Ronald Limbaugh made Dec 2 at 2013 2:41 AM

2013-12-02T02:41:27-05:00

I don't know that I would have done it for 20 years, though I probably would have chosen an MOS better suited to apply toward a civilian occupation. As a young private, I had very few needs, almost all of which were provided by the Army. Everything else was just topping on the cake. I ended up wasting away a good portion of my pay, mainly because I didn't have any bills to worry about at the time. I guess I probably would have gone in without pay, as long as the rest of the benefits were still available. Like I said though, probably wouldn't have decided to keep going for 20. Definitely would not have continued, without pay, after getting married

Response by SPC Rachel Stubbs made Dec 2 at 2013 6:42 AM

2013-12-02T06:42:24-05:00

Of course I would of. For me it was a since of duty to this country. When I first joined I did not feel that I was worthy to be called a citizen of this great country unless I first served. It was necessary for me to show my country how much I loved and appreciated her. So yeah I still would of served even not getting a pay check.

Response by Cpl Glynis Sakowicz made Dec 2 at 2013 7:50 AM

2013-12-02T07:50:21-05:00

I first joined out of high school, with no bills to pay, and a great desire to do SOMETHING different... I didn't have any bills, and I had no dependants except for an old cat, so yes, I probably would have joined even if I knew there was no pay, but I knew a great many who already had families and bills.

I would think, that this question would depend on the person as there is no, ONE SIZE fits all here.

Response by CPT Brandon Christensen made Dec 2 at 2013 5:11 PM

2013-12-02T17:11:20-05:00

SSG, I am the same way. When I enlisted back in 2002, I never once brought up the topic of how much I would be getting paid or anything. I was sold on the fact that they will help pay for my college and my only obligation was that I had to do one weekend a month and two weeks a year. I thought that was a great deal. So I took them up on the offer and enlisted. Then, just like you, after I received my first LES while at BCT, I realized I was getting paid for the Army to train me and that it would continue the rest of my military career.

Response by SGT Tommy Silvas made Dec 2 at 2013 10:00 PM

2013-12-02T22:00:00-05:00

I was 18 and 2 weeks out of high school all I needed was 3 hots and a cot and I would be good to go, hell as little as we got paid back then it really wouldn't matter.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Dec 2 at 2013 11:20 PM

2013-12-02T23:20:26-05:00

Even the soldiers of Roman legions were paid. You can't feed a family on pride and patriotism for long.

Response by SGM Matthew Quick made Dec 3 at 2013 1:07 AM

2013-12-03T01:07:04-05:00

No...I'm not serving to profit, but I have a family to provide for.

Response by SGT Joseph Redman made Dec 3 at 2013 1:33 AM

2013-12-03T01:33:45-05:00

i never got paid until i was done with basic, everything was provided and i brought soap and shampoo with me, so money wasnt an issue. i wasnt broke before i joined and wasnt expecting to get rich. it was the best experience i ever had, and it cant be replaced i love the military and everything it stands for. o joined when i was single and never had a thought of a life sucking ex wife, so my answer is yes! but this raises another question as well, if you didnt get paid would you still get housed and feed from DFAC and clothing furnished when needed? either way YES!

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2013 1:40 AM

2013-12-03T01:40:38-05:00

In an ideal world, yes, but as one person has said, we have to feed ourselves and our families.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2013 10:21 AM

2013-12-03T10:21:39-05:00

I would have no problem doing it for free, as long as my family was taken care of. But then again, ask the same question of a auxiliary police or firefighter that DOES do it for free. Integrity check anyone?

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2013 10:28 AM

2013-12-03T10:28:36-05:00

Yes, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. I am doing it now. I transferred to the National Guard to continue serving my country, and although I do get paid (its awful) I donate that money to local charities or my children's school functions. I just enjoy serving.

Response by SFC Benjamin Parsons made Dec 3 at 2013 12:38 PM

2013-12-03T12:38:38-05:00

Not practical without a whole buncha extra perks. Like a paid 'tab' at the PX, Commissary, Enlisted Club, Mil Clothing Store, Base Gas Station, ad infinitum.

Only the stratospheric ranks can hope to amass a nest egg nearing luxury level as it is.

Didn't join for the money though. More the adventure. My patriotism was acquired through service. My initial intent was not career oriented. As I matured through service, the idea of of the long term benefits kind of grew on me.

Was, for the most part, even some of the bad parts, great fun.

And historically, lots of service members served without pay - or deferred pay. And always low pay. That takes a dedication and motivation I, and I believe few others, have in this day and age.

Critical need of my nation and very short term, yeah I probably would.

Long term - no way.

Starting out (USMC-1970) I collected $124.50 before taxes. Sure many here remember further back to much less. 'Course a carton of cigarettes only cost $1.70 at the PX in those days too.

For all his faults, RM Nixon was generous to GIs and vets. He made a lot of things right.

Response by SGT Kristopher Lather made Jan 2 at 2014 7:32 AM

2014-01-02T07:32:56-05:00

Volunteering to serve your country is one thing, but Unless you plan on being like Kurt Russell in the Movie "Solider" you should be receive a paycheck, Military Pride for Country is one thing, but this isn't UNICEF..

I enjoy the fact that I can use what I receive from the Army to provide for my family, drive a nice car, and wear nice clothes.. It's bad enough that the current Clothing Allowance rates don't offset the price of uniforms, boots and any other small items we have to purchase and replace for the Army. One set of ACU's will run just around $100, and if you're required to have 4 sets for NCOES courses and something happens to your uniforms, how to you replace them... out've pocket.

The day that the Army became a Non Paid Military, there will be a Catastrophic Drawdown for soldiers scrambling to get out as fast as the paperwork could travel.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 20 at 2014 2:11 AM

2014-03-20T02:11:51-04:00

As a person that jumped at the chance to run into burning buildings for nada, initially I would have jumped at the chance to join the military for free. However, after 10 years, the glitz and glamour has worn off. When I do my job, I still love it. (I used to drive commercially and often reveled at the fact that I was actually being paid to do a job I absolutely loved) However, no one told me in the Army an 88M is a crappy job. I no longer love what I do, though I tried to reclass. At this point, I don't know if any amount of money is enough for me to stay in. I choose jobs based on what I love and not what it pays. After this, I plan on going to school and becoming a psychologist... for the VA or something dealing with service members. I already know the pay is not that great, but if I love the job, I don't care. At the end of the day, I want to be happy and know I am helping others.

Response by SPC Christopher Smith made Mar 20 at 2014 1:58 PM

2014-03-20T13:58:52-04:00

No, I didn't even do an unpaid internship in College, couldn't imagine signing a contract in which I had to spend my own money on my uniform, have limited freedoms, and no pay.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 20 at 2014 2:01 PM

2014-03-20T14:01:41-04:00

No more than a couple of years

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 20 at 2014 2:40 PM

2014-03-20T14:40:57-04:00

Realistically, now that I have a family, a mortgage and car payments, of course I would not work in a career that does not pay the bills! However, when I first joined out of high school, my (admittedly crazy) drive was such that I would have been perfectly happy serving as long as I had a barracks room, a meal card and a clothing allowance. No base pay needed.

Response by SGT Bryon Sergent made Mar 20 at 2014 3:08 PM

2014-03-20T15:08:08-04:00

I didnt join for the money, but my answer would still have to be, no. Because of the outta pocket expense and things of that nature, faimly housing, food and the other necessities would have to be compensate some how.

Response by SPC David Tabor made Mar 20 at 2014 3:15 PM

2014-03-20T15:15:26-04:00

Interesting question...

I would say yes and no. I would have never joined without there being some sort of monetary compensation and there is the no. The yes is from my current perspective, and seeing all of the opportunities and personal changes the military had on me that were and continue to be positive I would have to say with out a doubt I would gladly serve without pay (assuming i was single and only had to worry about myself)

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2014 11:32 AM

2014-06-01T11:32:41-04:00

I joined the military to get rich. i joined the Infantry because I wanted a MOS with skills related to the civilian world. I am now evaluating my decision making process...

Response by CW2 Scott Williams made Jun 1 at 2014 11:40 AM

2014-06-01T11:40:31-04:00

Nope, I had bills to pay and a family to raise. I live in the land of reality, pay is an appropriate means to provide for one who is doing you a service. Admittedly it was far BELOW the civilian world, but hey even revolutionary war solders got paid, eventually, mostly, almost what they where owed, you know like 30 years later..

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2014 1:50 PM

2014-06-02T13:50:01-04:00

So I took a day to respond to this message so I could truly think about what it would mean to me to work for free. I initially joined as a 25S Satellite Communications Operator/Maintainer which after my initial term of service could have provided me with a really good start in life had I decided to get out. I chose to stay in and haven't regretted a minute of it.

I think for your initial term if you are single and enter the Army as a PVT and the Army covers all of your expenses (food, lodging, transportation) than you should be good with the exception of money to spend on comfort items and entertainment. However, the MWR program would have to be significantly better and Internet would have to be free (as would the personal computers Soldiers use at home or their barracks rooms). I'm pretty sure we couldn't sustain that type of entitlement Army as it would be a serious drain on our resources.

By the Army offering compensation it allows you to make choices and grow as an adult by forcing you to budget. I came in the Army with other expenses so there was no way I could have possibly worked for free unless I was willing to part with everything I owned or there was a moratorium on my bills while I was serving my initial term.

Soldiers either wouldn't be allowed to be married during their initial term under some sort of agreement or if already married when they entered would receive some sort of stipend for their family members to cover their additional expenses. It begins to sound a lot like a Socialist Utopia where everyone works according to ones means and we all benefit the same.

No thanks. I'll stick to the way things are and remember when I had to struggle from paycheck to paycheck because I had the freedom to make a bad choice once or twice.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2014 2:40 PM

2014-06-03T14:40:21-04:00

If you knew that joining the Military, you would not get paid, would you still Join?

Bottom line, I would have served the first couple of years and then gotten out to find a real career; you can't survive serving more than that without basic pay. So yes, with caveats.

My answer lies in the military obligations and senior leadership. With everybody above me working incredibly hard to spend my paycheck for me (uniform changes, mandatory socials and luncheons, senior leader conferences that have a daily fee, etc) there is no way to survive in the current command climate of the military without getting paid. The entire culture would collapse upon itself. There has been talk about charging rent for barracks space and privatizing all living quarters. Additionally, dining facilities are losing support and funding (whether from lack of use or budget cuts, I've no idea).

I am not an expert on any of these items, however I have seen a lot over the past 13 years. From experience, if you are not a private then the expectation that you can survive solely on military benefits is untrue.

I am still of the personal belief, as controversial as it is, that all citizens should serve a minimum of two years supporting either the Department of Defense or the Department of State; the reason for the two departments is to allow those who abhor conflict to have an option to serve peacekeeping and diplomatic missions, and vice versa.

Response by PFC Zanie Young made Jul 29 at 2014 9:58 AM

2014-07-29T09:58:25-04:00

I joined the Army because I love this country. Can I say that honestly? I would say yes because I had nothing to lose and it wasn't about me. I had plenty of time to think about it before I joined and I have no regrets about that decision I made.

Response by CPL Roberto Gonzalez made Oct 17 at 2014 12:09 PM

2014-10-17T12:09:17-04:00

Absolutey, I will still enlist!! It mad me a real man!! Also learned how to value life and appreciate our freedom.

Response by SGT Richard H. made Oct 18 at 2014 9:59 PM

2014-10-18T21:59:18-04:00

Depends on what stage of life my mindset was in.

I've often looked back and thought that if I could get a re-do with my 20 year old physical ability and my 49 year old mental ability, I would be a super-soldier. In keeping with the spirit of the question, yes, with today's mind I absolutely would serve if it were volunteer as long as the Army covered my tab at the NCO club once in a while.

With that being said, I don't think my 18 year old mind would have done it for free when I first joined. At that time (at least in my head) I was joining because I thought the USMC would provide me a marketable skill and afterward I would go to work at Boeing, right down the road from where I grew up.

By the time I re-joined (Army the 2nd time) at 22, I might have done it for free then.

Response by SFC Melker Johansson made Oct 18 at 2014 10:53 PM

2014-10-18T22:53:50-04:00

No. I have a family to feed.

Response by COL Vincent Stoneking made Oct 19 at 2014 9:44 AM

2014-10-19T09:44:22-04:00

A very good question. My answer is "Yes-ish".

At several times while in the NG, and a few times in the Reserves, my drill pay didn't cover my drill expenses (Primarily due to up to 550+ mile round trip commutes before TDY Travel and LIK programs). For most of my career, the amount of time I have put into the military has been at least 3x the time I have been officially paid for - and much higher during my commands. Often, when I would do the math, I was clearing less than minimum wage for the actual time spent.

In Reserve Components, I would absolutely serve without pay as long as I had a way to cover my military expenses (either LIK, clothing allowance, etc. or spare civilian pay). Much as I once considered being a volunteer firefighter (would still like to, but I don't think I could balance a full time job, a wife, the military, AND FF duties, especially at my age....).

On Active Duty? Maybe for an initial two-year stint, assuming expenses were covered. I think I could buy the argument that 1) patriotic duty and 2) skills & life experience. Especially right out of HS.

Longer than that? No. It would be a recipe for lifelong poverty and dependence. It would lead to a devaluation of military service (generally, the less people pay for a thing, the less they value it) and abuse of military service members. Also, we live in a capitalist society and money is nice. Having it doesn't make everything better, but not having it does make everything harder.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 19 at 2014 1:31 PM

2014-10-19T13:31:21-04:00

What would the military become with unpaid volunteers serving the country?

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 5 at 2014 11:29 AM

2014-11-05T11:29:03-05:00

I joined partially for the college benefits, and partially due to family tradition. Without any pay/benefits, I still would have joined (particularly as a Guardsman, since I can still get a regular job to pay the bills). I probably would not have put in a full 20 years, however.

Response by CW4 Ray Montano made Nov 5 at 2014 10:43 PM

2014-11-05T22:43:31-05:00

Having made a career of the military, the lack of pay would have been a serious issue. I enlisted in the Army, shortly after the hostages were taken in Iran. Obviously, that issue was resolved and no major deployment needed. My intent was to serve for three years and get out. I wanted the experience, as a military police officer, to later get out, come back home, and become a "civilian cop." I did not pay much attention to what I was being paid. That three years ended 25 years later. Less than 15 percent of our civilian population ends up serving in the military. Without doubt, many enjoy the freedom protected by few. The fact that I was paid is one thing, the amount I was paid was another. As a CW3/Special Agent-in-Charge for the Army CID, my civilian counterpart in the FBI made almost three times what I made. We moth had master's and over 10 years of experience. That never bothered me.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 6 at 2014 12:34 AM

2014-11-06T00:34:15-05:00

Yes I def would, if I had another income to provide for the family, it would be impossible other wise

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 24 at 2014 8:12 AM

2014-12-24T08:12:15-05:00

Nope. Family has to eat, and I have to live somewhere. I could not do my current job and pick up another that would pay the bills.

Response by CPO Patrick King made Dec 24 at 2014 12:09 PM

2014-12-24T12:09:43-05:00

I did not join for the money....but I do need to feed my family..as a E-1 the money did not go very far.

Response by SGT Michael Glenn made Dec 26 at 2014 6:40 PM

2014-12-26T18:40:28-05:00

This would depend.....is there a war??? will I have to like.... actually eat military food? will there be free travel? will I get my choice of a tank or Winnebago (Urban Assault Vehicle....right John Candy !!!!) will there be cute soldiers ( female of course you dirty dawwwwwgs) ... I think that the time , effort ,blood ,sweat and hardships we as soldiers gave/give should be payment enough to ever pay Uncle sam back. Having said this, if this country were ever to be invaded or face a civil war I dont think I would ever even question what pay I would get, but rather what kind of a unit I would get, ones who worry about money motivating them or ones who want to survive and fight for a just cause....Freedom... that should be payment enough.... Bwaaaaaahahahahahahahaha....I think Ill go with the Winnebago !!!!!! Who wants to invade Czech Republic with me?????

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 26 at 2014 9:27 PM

2014-12-26T21:27:01-05:00

Active, no. Not a trust-fund baby. Besides, it's like...$200 for overweight checked baggage at the airport. At one point, I was spending more for fuel than I was making at drill, so had I been asked this ten years ago, the answer would have been different.
But kids, bills, and grown-up stuff? I love you, America, but has anyone tried to pay the electric bill with a challenge coin? Anyone?!
It figures. Just me, huh? Well, those bastards at OG&E Electric are unpatriotic and anti-military.
#dontcutoffmypowerlolz

Response by SGT Karen Scott made Dec 27 at 2014 3:13 PM

2014-12-27T15:13:16-05:00

When I joined in the eighties I already knew that we were getting very little pay. So yes I still joined. It was about other things; getting to serve my Country, travel, learning new trades, education and having options for college. I knew there were some problems, but did not know that there were severe bias towards females & others, violent rapes and gross personal attacks so many from our own destroying many lives.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 28 at 2017 6:36 PM

2017-11-28T18:36:58-05:00

SSG Laureano Pabon I served from June 1968 to June 1972. I knew before I joined that the pay was poor. I did not join to get rich, but to serve my country. A small amount of money is needed to live on.

Response by SGT Philip Roncari made Nov 28 at 2017 7:22 PM

2017-11-28T19:22:19-05:00

Considering my pay was the princely sum of $87.50 a month when I joined back in 1965 you could say that it did not matter,but since I was single and nineteen at the time ,the money wasn't the issue ,looking for adventure and travel, got both up the ying yang.