If you remember different PT tests, such as "Staff & Faculty", should that return?

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 16 Nov 2014 18:14:15 -0500

Used to be, PT tests varied by the type of unit and MOS...while we still have higher standards for very elite, we also have long had a basic PT test for all consisting of the current three events; 2 mile run, situps, pushups.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 16 at 2014 6:41 PM

CPO Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 16 Nov 2014 18:41:16 -0500

I have brought up several times and even initiated discussions with high-level Navy leadership about incentivizing the PFA (PT Test). Of course we should have a basic standard that every single Sailor should adhere to. There should also be Navy-wide career enhancement benefits for those that exceed the high standards. Promotion points for those above Excellent and an automatic 5.0 in leadership for Outstanding or above. So far all I have received back were the "we'll see what we can do" and "neat idea, but it will never fly"

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 17 at 2014 1:08 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 17 Nov 2014 13:08:26 -0500

I don't think we need separate standards, but we should encourage exceptional performance. It seems odd to me that not being able to do 50 push-ups can get you shown the door, regardless of what skills you do have. We still have an Army using the standards developed in WWII, while we have higher technology to deal with. It seems to me that two excellents ought to equal one marginal. So if you are a linguist and have computer security experience, for example, maybe that makes up for failing the push-up event?

Every day we lose the best to Blackwater, who pays about 3 times what they got while on active duty. If those people are so valuable to Blackwater, shouldn't they be valuable to the US Army?

Response by SGT Criss M. made Nov 17 at 2014 1:42 PM

SGT Criss M. — Mon, 17 Nov 2014 13:42:51 -0500

I remember having to do the "duck walk", the overhead latter, run, dodge and jump, then push-ups, sit-ups and the 2 mile run.
I also knew a Major (MI) who could bench press 400 lbs, the best marksman that I've ever seen - shooting was his passion, Ranger qualified, graduate of the army war college and had a MA, but was almost kicked out after 16 years of service for being overweight.
I also heard about an artillery SSG who could run witt 2 155 howitzer rounds, one under each arm, but he was kicked out for being overweight.

Response by SSG John Erny made Nov 17 at 2014 1:53 PM

SSG John Erny — Mon, 17 Nov 2014 13:53:16 -0500

SGM Dan Coberly,
I can tell you this, if you a permanent profile and have to do the walk, chances are you are done at 20, even before then they were pushing for early retirement for me at 18 years. A medical officer was kind enough to offer a medical hold, problem solved. At about 17 years into the game I ended up with a herniated disk. :-/

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 17 at 2014 3:56 PM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 17 Nov 2014 15:56:00 -0500

When I am doing my job, I am sitting down and tied to the chair. My PT test should test my ability to sit in one place for at least 8 hours. What say you, CW5 Sam R. Baker ?

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Nov 18 at 2014 3:24 PM

CPT Jack Durish — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 15:24:14 -0500

Military service is physically demanding. Of course there needs to be physical training, even for those who do not serve in the combat arms. Every member of every branch of the service should be sufficiently fit to step up to the battlefield and contribute. Wherever you duty station happens to be, whatever your MOS, you may be forced into combat or it may find you, and you need to be prepared.

Anyone who can't perform to at least minimal standards, needs to be weeded out for their own good as well as the good of their comrades and the service. You don't want to find yourself fighting alongside someone who can't pull their own weight.

The PT Test is as good a measurement as any. Furthermore, it is perfectly reasonable for someone who serves in an MOS with more rigorous physical requirements to be tested more rigorously.

This only seems to be common sense to me.

That being said, let me tell you a brief story...

I was trained to the infantry. Basic Combat Training. Advanced Infantry Training. Infantry OCS. However, I was assigned to be an Adjutant. Once I arrived in Vietnam, continued to train like an infantry officer. I ran every day. Like "Mad Dogs and Englishmen" I ran in the noon day sun. I joked that if I ever needed to run, I wanted to be ready. The truth is that I wanted to run with the infantry. I volunteered and served as a platoon leader on our base camp reaction force. I still would have run even if I hadn't.

Now, as an old man with siatica, I don't run. I'm lucky to lumber. Still, I watch modern infantry men, including Marines, participating in PT in running shoes, shorts and t-shirts. Is that what they wear in combat these days? Wouldn't it be better to train in combat gear? That's what we did...

Response by CW5 Michael Scheller made Nov 18 at 2014 5:19 PM

CW5 Michael Scheller — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 17:19:04 -0500

I'm a guy who was all over the map on my PT scores, having maxed it many times to nearly failing it. But, I think PT has become, like many things tend to be, an item that holds importance by the people who are good at it and deemed unimportant by those who are horrible at it. But, since the early '80s when the Army did away with the Skill Qualification Test (SQT) NCOs have had no other objective measure on their troop leading abilities than PT scores.

For the many among us too young to have been around for the SQT, it was a written and hands on annual test of Common Training Tasks (CTT) and MOS specific tasks. As a 67N, UH-1 repairer, the MOS tasks might include the torquing of a boot, cotter pinning, safety wiring or use of a micrometer, prop protractor, or a cable tensiometer. To prepare for the MOS skills, you had a Job Book for each MOS and skill level. As an NCO! One of my responsibilities was to ensure my guys worked through their job book, which could be done in the course of everyday duties. As a matter of fact, my only one on one interaction with then BG Colin Powell was when he asked to see my job book, those of my subordinates, and to see our SQT score printouts. Nobody ever asked SGT Scheller about his soldiers PT scores. We cared much more about whether PVT Snuffy could fix a helicopter, start an IV, pump fuel or put lead on target with his tank.

Since the demise of the SQT good soldiers only had one true metric that made them stand out, PT. Then people who's only skill was PT who then placed increased importance on PT and promoted people who were good at PT and so on.

I fully believe that the Army should go back to Job Books and the SQT.