If you started a new job with a retired 0-6 as your regional manager, how would you handle being embarrassed in front of them?

Sgt William Biggs — Tue, 18 Jul 2017 11:02:04 -0400

I started a new job. I was thrown in the fire and immediately audited by corporate. I was then thrown under the bus due to lack of training. I found out my auditor is a retired Marine Colonel. I'm furious, but don't know what to do.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 18 at 2017 11:04 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Jul 2017 11:04:09 -0400

Take it up the chain that you were thrown under the bus and audited in a department without the proper training required. You're out, the Colonel is out. Start making a stink about it and throw other people under the bus.

Response by Sgt William Biggs made Jul 18 at 2017 11:07 AM

Sgt William Biggs — Tue, 18 Jul 2017 11:07:36 -0400

To preface this, the Colonel said I was fine. No big issues to fix. The staff were more than ready to say I f'd up. I was literally appalled by my "co-workers"

Response by Sgt William Biggs made Jul 18 at 2017 11:14 AM

Sgt William Biggs — Tue, 18 Jul 2017 11:14:40 -0400

The 0-6 was awesome. He went out of his way to help me. The peers I have is what got me

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Jul 18 at 2017 11:15 AM

MCPO Roger Collins — Tue, 18 Jul 2017 11:15:33 -0400

His retired rank means nothing, but his current job does. If he is in a position to oversee your function, so be it. When I took over a job as P&L manager of a small business unit, the first thing I did was request an audit. I wanted the decks cleared before I accepted responsibility for my predecessor's incompetent actions. Best thing to do is accept the criticism, and tell your immediate senior, (hate the word superior in these instances) where you stand and have a plan on how to remedy any issues. You will always lose if you buck "city hall".

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 18 at 2017 11:19 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Jul 2017 11:19:23 -0400

It's hard to give advice without the details of your situation, and what getting thrown under the bus actually means in your situation, how long you are in the job, what your job is, etc. but in a general sense, it sounds sort of like the situation when an officer takes command of a company, and a week later gets an IG inspection. While the new commander takes the hit, everyone realizes that he could do little to affect the results.

But it does give him a great opportunity to develop a plan to fix the deficiencies and look like a superstar later. So if your position was responsible for poor audit results, own it. Don't make excuses, just come up with a great plan to fix things. Keep your discussions focused not on what went wrong, but rather how they will get better. And if that plan needs to include additional training for you, put that in the plan. But don't stress the point that you weren't properly trained for your position. Because that could come across as why did we hire an unqualified person for this position. So absorb the hit without a bunch of "yeah, but..., excuses. Just fix the problems.

Response by Col Jim Harmon made Jul 18 at 2017 11:19 AM

Col Jim Harmon — Tue, 18 Jul 2017 11:19:46 -0400

First and foremost, forget the military ranks. That was in another life and in another time. Put it out of your head entirely. I know it's tough but you have to change mental gears to fit your new reality.

Now focus on your corporate management structure. What influence and management authority does the Regional Manager have over your position. Is he your direct report, two tiers up, lateral, etc? If he is not in your direct reporting chain then forget him. Focus on those individuals who do impact your position. Have you met with your direct report manager to discuss the audit? Use the audit to your advantage to justify the training you need and to leverage your manager's support for getting you that training. If your direct report is the Regional Manager then he has no ground to stand on, other than to get you the training you need (as he is the one who highlighted the problem).

Document your meeting with a professional and polite follow up email that recaps your conversation and discussion and reiterates the audit stating that you needed Training X-Y-Z. Turn the audit to your advantage and get the training and support you need.

Remember, he was a Colonel. You were a Sergeant. Now you are both corporate cogs. Just make sure you understand how the gears in your corporation turn, and which other cogs you come into contact with to make the corporate machine work.

Best of luck and good hunting!!

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Jul 18 at 2017 11:25 AM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Tue, 18 Jul 2017 11:25:29 -0400

Not really enough information here to provide a detailed answer. In the private sector, the retired or reserve rank of a person is not relevant. You need to put your rank on the shelf with your other memorabilia from your time in the Marine Corps. I hope the colonel has done likewise.

You now need to focus in your private sector job. Analyze the situation (failed audit) and take action to correct the problem (get trained). A good auditor will provide comments on how to fix each problem they discover. Review these recommendations and develop a plan to implement them in your work area. Discuss with your supervisor. If your supervisor isn't the colonel in question, then let your supervisor deal with the corporate higher-ups. If the supervisor is the colonel, he should be glad you're taking the whole audit thing seriously and proposed solutions.

Another thing in the private sector is profit motive. I'm guessing you aren't responsible for profit/loss yet. The retried colonel might be. Be sure your plan to correct audit deficiencies keeps customer relations in mind and helps control costs.

Taking positive steps to correct the problem is more likely than any other course to keep you employed and help the company in the long run.

Response by SSG Robert Perrotto made Jul 18 at 2017 11:35 AM

SSG Robert Perrotto — Tue, 18 Jul 2017 11:35:40 -0400

so - you got audited and failed the audit after one week on the job, stuff happens, take a copy of the audit report, go to your 1st line leader, not with complaints, but with solutions - do a little research into what the standard is to pass the audit, research what training is required, and ask when the next available training will be available - and remember - you are not in the military anymore, rank is irrelevant, you will have to be more proactive in meeting the requirements of the position you hold, your supervisers are not going to hold your hand and realize that if someone can pass responsibility off to you when something is wrong, they absolutely will. Civilian employment is not like the military, most of your co workers are in it for themselves and in this day and age of its never my fault, always someone elses,fault - you need to protect yourself - document any and all meetings.

Response by Maj John Bell made Jul 18 at 2017 11:42 AM

Maj John Bell — Tue, 18 Jul 2017 11:42:59 -0400

There are not many details in your narrative. Yes it stings to be held responsible for discrepancies you haven't had time to fix.

When I was given command of a company, My CO asked me to join him and his XO at the club for a beer right after the ceremony. It turns out, during the change of command ceremony, a couple of my Marines rolled a CUCV on a security patrol route where their top speed was supposed to be 10mph. 15 minutes after the change of command, I am locked up in front of the CO in a one-sided discussion about the CO's disappointment in my current performance as a company commander. Had I deflected any part of my responsibility and accountability, it would have been the shortest command period in history.

My first question; were you canned or disciplined? If not, you were not thrown under the bus. You were gifted a thorough understanding of where your area stands, and what auditors look for. In a position of significant responsibility and accountability, your area of responsibility and your level of knowledge and training should be audited almost immediately.

It may be that the reason you were hired is because the person who held the job before was incompetent, or a new position was created, precisely because of the problems noted in the audit. An audit completed before your arrival is not nearly as informative to you and your seniors as an audit upon your arrival. Do you now have a clear understanding of what needs to be corrected, or not? Assume that management knows you just got there, but DON'T bring it up yourself as a defense. If you won't accept responsibility in the first second, you should have the job.

Imagine a different scenario. You've been in charge for a year+, without a thorough audit. Then you are audited, and the same discrepancies are found, because you didn't know. That is when discrepancies reflect upon you. Trust me, in the civilian world, you will never be adequately trained. unless you take charge of your own training.

I've been audited. I've been an auditor. Here's my best advice. When an auditor shows up, have a thorough and complete list of the discrepancies you are aware of. Don't hide anything. No one really expects you to be perfect, but self awareness goes a long way. Also have a written, detailed course of action for how you want to fix it. It shows they hired the right person. Make a separate set of lists 1) What you can fix with organic assets. 2) What you will need in the way of support from other departments, and 3) What you will need in the way of support external to the company. Also, when you think you have a problem, and you think you clearly understand the problem; present what you've got to the auditor, even though you aren't due an audit. Just tell them you'd appreciate a second set of eyes that are not so close to the problem.

Response by SGT Mark Halmrast made Jul 18 at 2017 11:53 AM

SGT Mark Halmrast — Tue, 18 Jul 2017 11:53:33 -0400

So many great reaponses.

I agree:
- own the audit result and be grateful for it this early in your tenure
- recognize that "teamwork" is different in many company cultures than in the military
- your richer understanding of real teamwork is a benefit to the team
- consider how you can build with your peers a truer sense of teamwork
- this is an opportunity fir you to lead, equip, and transform the culture of what sounds to be a dysfunctional team environment

So cool of you to reach out to the RP community.

Response by MAJ Patrick Hairston CISSP, AWS Certified Cloud Architect made Jul 18 at 2017 11:57 AM

MAJ Patrick Hairston CISSP, AWS Certified Cloud Architect — Tue, 18 Jul 2017 11:57:11 -0400

Whether he is a retired 06 or not shouldn't come into the equation. He could have been a crappy 06. What matters now is his style of leadership you are going to have to adapt to. Show him a plan of action to get right. Then execute the plan. Flawless Performance erases embarrassment. Trust me, I know...

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Jul 18 at 2017 12:02 PM

MSG Brad Sand — Tue, 18 Jul 2017 12:02:26 -0400

You started a new job...then they were not auditing you they were auditing the people there before you? You were not thrown under the bus but they made a statement of fact...you were new to the position, and as such, lacked training. Continue to improve. You should have a fairly low bar for the next audit, that would be looking at your accomplishments.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Jul 18 at 2017 12:31 PM

CPT Jack Durish — Tue, 18 Jul 2017 12:31:22 -0400

Prior military service should have nothing to do with it, but you can't dismiss the fact that we are molded by our experiences and military service, especially a military career, is a major influence in our lives. It's entirely possible that this manager is the same person he was in the military. Personally, I found many O-6's to be paranoid. All were eligible for retirement (or, at least, close to it) and fretting over whether or not they should hang around and earn a flag (general or admiral). Many, but not all. Others were damn fine officers. That being said, officers are leaders, not managers, and don't make the transition well. Others do. Bottom line is that none of this matters to your situation. You need now to deal with civilian managers as a civilian. Get over the issues of yours and his military service and focus on what is really happening. That's where you'll find your answers...

Response by Susan Foster made Jul 18 at 2017 3:16 PM

Susan Foster — Tue, 18 Jul 2017 15:16:58 -0400

I would do the same thing I would do if my auditor wasn't former military. First of all, when going into a new job it's important to meet with your manager and get clear expectations and what is considered "successful performance" by him/her. Often we don't think to do this (I haven't always). If you didn't, I would go to my manager for a meeting, lay out exactly what I had done since arriving at my new job, and tell him/her what your expectations were based on his/her guidance with no training. Then I would ask my manager: "I want to learn from this, so please tell me what I should have done differently, so this won't happen again with an auditor." Then just listen, without being defensive. The manager may acknowledge their part in the mess, promise to get you training, and not hold it against you. Or your manager could decide to keep the blame on you. In that last instance, you have gotten a clear message: This manager is not someone you want to work for (it will happen over and over), and you can start looking for another job.

Response by LtCol Robert Quinter made Jul 18 at 2017 5:08 PM

LtCol Robert Quinter — Tue, 18 Jul 2017 17:08:20 -0400

He really did you a favor. You've got nowhere to go but up. Your course is laid out. Bring your branch or office up to snuff and show how your being there improved the office. As far as your "peers" are concerned, first they are your coworkers and you can prove your worth by correcting what they screwed up.

Response by CDR Kenneth Kaiser made Jul 20 at 2017 2:40 AM

CDR Kenneth Kaiser — Thu, 20 Jul 2017 02:40:48 -0400

There is so much good advice in this chain. The most important thing is to use the audit as your baseline. This is where you started. When is the next one and be ready. Now you never mentioned what kind of business this is and that is critical. Is it a high turnover business or a business that requires a lot of training. Particularly inside training that you can't necessarily pick up somewhere. Usually these are structured organizations. This is critical. High turnover organizations (much like fast food) can find replacements easily and thus they can afford to lose folks. On the other hand organizations that require specialized skill or a significant amount of internal training to do the job usually don't want to lose employees once they have trained them or recruited them. Recruitment takes a lot of time and resources and in some cases the skill set you are looking for might be in high demand so the competition to recruit is tough. Bottom line once based upon your can answer to what type of business then know that if it is the latter it is going to take more than one mistake or series of mistakes for them to fire you.
Now with that background review the other advice in this chain. Develop a plan of action based upon a review of your audit. Will the next audit be an annual event around the same time, or quarterly or how frequent. Prioritize the problems you had with the audit and focus on a plan to correct them that addresses how critical they are. Secondly learn how your function fits into the overall organization. If you are an information producer then find out who uses it and for what purpose and if that product is in turn used by someone else. If it is a sales organization then learn the product . It would appear that some of your co workeres are co workers in the basest form of the term (i.e same office same company) Spend some time studying them you might even look at your audit and see what they do in terms of the same areas. Some will do those things well some not so much. By the way they are still there. Learn from the good ones.
I worked defense and some years you moved from contract to contract. It used to be common to say I am a systems engineer who currently works on x or with company x rather than I work for company x as a whatever. Because of the nature of the beast you might move more often than your counterparts. Given that I always tried to move to a job where I only knew how to do say 75% of the task and I would learn the remaining 25%. As a result I was always growing as opposed to some you will meet who have 1 year experience 20 times over. This should apply whether you move or not Always grow and grow toward a goal you establish for yourself. Some end point or near term goal.
Finally no matter how good you are you will make mistakes. Everyone does. Learn and move on. Good Luck. It will all start coming together.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Jul 20 at 2017 2:50 AM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Thu, 20 Jul 2017 02:50:19 -0400

Sgt William Biggs My Father was a Marine Sgt and a Contract Bank Auditor for Car Lots, You Will Do What I Expect, Pick Yourself Up, Dust Yourself Off and Go "Next". I served with Marines, Onry Bastards from the Younger Lads that I Put thru the Ringers in Riot Control Training, To My ADP Chief in Adak (A Marine) to My Basic Typing Instructor (Mean Obnoxious Marine Gunny). I Know You are Full of Spit and Meanness and are Pissed Off Right Now but You Will Overcome!

Response by SrA Rex Brown made Aug 18 at 2017 5:05 PM

SrA Rex Brown — Fri, 18 Aug 2017 17:05:59 -0400

That is easy to answer. You simply say "I'm new, I just started (whenever ago) and I am just learning my duties under the guidance of ( whomever) give me a little time and I will have all aspects of my job learned and under control." It embarrasses no one and lets them know you are making the attempt to learn the job since you are new. If anyone expects a new hire to know all aspects of the job right off the bat then they expect to much from their people and aren't a good company to work for. No need to be embarrassed we've all been the new guy/ lady.