If you were in charge of Basic Training for your branch, how would you improve it to be more effective for new recruits?

2017-01-02T14:58:10-05:00

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Jan 2 at 2017 3:00 PM

2017-01-02T15:00:50-05:00

Do tell, how would you?
what specifically did you find lacking in your time at Basic training, and how would you change it to be more effective?

Response by LTC Peter Hartman made Jan 2 at 2017 3:03 PM

2017-01-02T15:03:16-05:00

I went to basic in 1987 at Sand Hill, Ft. Benning. I think it was well run. From what I understand, basic has gotten a lot softer. But perhaps it depends on where you go through at.

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2017 3:03 PM

2017-01-02T15:03:40-05:00

I would make it more difficult. It felt like a vacation. I was definitely more fit by the end, but the stress factor wasn't there like I think it should have been. Reception was the most stressful place.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2017 3:11 PM

2017-01-02T15:11:54-05:00

Make it more like real combat 24/7 3-4 hours of sleep a night during the week 5-6 hours on the weekend 2-3 patrols a day carrying 80+ lbs of gear and incorporate a lot of mental toughness tests like I experienced at SFAS

Response by PV2 Tong Li made Jan 2 at 2017 3:19 PM

2017-01-02T15:19:42-05:00

I'd completely remodel it. After the changes I make, Basic Training would be much more similar to the training of most European militaries, especially that of the UK or Canada.

I would increase the length to 20 weeks. I would include more comprehensive combat training and have ALL soldiers earn the blue cord and be infantry qualified at the end of it.

The Drill Sergeants would have their stupid "brown rounds" taken from them. Most other militaries don't have "drill sergeants," only training nco's who wear the same uniform as the soldiers they train. Drill sergeants should not be seen as some special class of soldier with a special uniform, but simply as NCO's temporarily tasked to train new soldiers.

There would be more of a focus on respect for new recruits. The Drill Sergeants would be seen as the new soldiers not as gods, but simply as experienced mentors to guide them. To punish discipline infractions, there would be one special "provost sergeant" per company, whose job it is to make life hell for anybody who is disruptive or refuses to train. The rest of the Drill Sergeants would be firm, tough, and demanding, but would show a high level of respect and dignity towards the soldiers they train, and treat the trainees not as worthless garbage, but as their fellow soldiers.

There would be one guaranteed phone call a week, and the reading of the newspaper or news magazines such as Newsweek on weekends would not only be allowed, but encouraged. Any soldier would have the guaranteed right to even more phone calls and guaranteed leave if there is an emergency or legal issue back home.

Recycling would be treated as a legal issue similar to an Article 15. Any soldier who is scheduled to be recycled has the right to appeal, seek legal counsel, argue his case before a third party officer, and see the "charges" listed against him as to why it is in the Army's best interests to recycle him.

Anybody would be allowed to drop out on request. A drop out request would take a maximum of two weeks to complete. This would allow the training to not be slowed down by those who don't want to be there.

Finally, there would be at least one visit per cycle by CIVILIAN observers from the federal government in order to prevent any hazing, abuse, or mistreatment.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Jan 2 at 2017 3:41 PM

2017-01-02T15:41:32-05:00

Improve? What's improve? The most effective is an output that matches the capabilities the big bosses are counting on to do the mission. Problem is "mission" has been so fuzzy over the past 20 years, what you need to be is a moving target. It's also a money/time game. How do you get the best bang for the buck with limited time? If you change either or both, what do you get for it? There are two things that are typically good directions. First is to make sure you activate the frontal lobes of your recruits. That doesn't happen all the time now, hence we create a larger group of high maintenance SMs. It's compounded by MES, Millennial Entitlement Syndrome. So back to tougher, etc. is probably a good idea. Lethality? Can't harm. Everyone is a rifleman in the Marines. Take a cue from them. Work on both and you're a more cohesive and forward driving team. That's good too. If you insist on two weeks of touchy feely stuff, then basic just got extended by two weeks. Remember, you get what you pay for. You also get what you don't pay for.

Response by SGT Philip Roncari made Jan 2 at 2017 3:49 PM

2017-01-02T15:49:04-05:00

I would have to find a way to resurrect my platoon Sergeant, SFC Aubrey Smith,from back in 1965 I personally can guarantee Basic Training would more effective,he turned a mob of sixties punks into soldiers and just to make sure we got it he went to Vietnam with us,a true professional ,certainly not a good answer to your post but a way to show how one certain individual can change your life in the Military.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2017 3:55 PM

2017-01-02T15:55:49-05:00

Not everyone can earn the blue chord. It is an honor to have earned one and worn it proudly for four years. The demands are not the same as many MOS's. There is constant stress, lack of sleep, great physical demands, and the very real possibility of facing death, even in training. Now every soldier and Marine is a basic rifleman, and I have the utmost respect for all service members and their sacrifice, but the Armed Forces is not an egalitarian institution. There is rank and distinction, and you learn this in BCT. I was pressed to my limits and then beyond my limits. I learned to be a member of a team. My drill sergeants were demanding, but they were fair. I was fully prepared to do anything in a line unit including leading it if necessary. I could not have been ready to do that without the discipline and physical attributes I learned were necessary for my survival, but especially the survival of my fellow soldiers who always came before me.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2017 3:58 PM

2017-01-02T15:58:24-05:00

make it harder more PT more yelling get some old schools drills back in there.

Response by SPC Margaret Higgins made Jan 2 at 2017 6:54 PM

2017-01-02T18:54:16-05:00

If I were an Army Drill Sergeant, in today's Basic Training: I would be kinder to my Soldiers. I might even be a little gentler with my troops. [PV2 Tong Li]
I would do as I did as a Squad Leader in the Army: and see my Soldiers as human beings; who need to be taken care of....to a certain extent.
However, discipline, would be stringent. It is immensely important-in my estimation-for young Soldiers to grow up; and to become part of a professional fighting force.
For what it's worth, PV2 Tong Li.
Thank you for your post, Private.
HAPPY NEW YEAR to YOU!
-Margaret

Response by MAJ David Vermillion made Jan 2 at 2017 8:03 PM

2017-01-02T20:03:04-05:00

Build pride in serving our country. Show our soldiers takectake pride in being the best in the world. It's not just a job.

Response by SPC(P) Gildardo Navarro made Jan 2 at 2017 8:03 PM

2017-01-02T20:03:21-05:00

take away stress cards, they abuse it because they're getting training to be snowflakes and not soldiers. Make BCT more harder. Discipline them when they act of out of hand, make them regret for acting that way. It will square them away. I thought BCT was going to be hard but it was the easiest thing i done.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2017 11:01 PM

2017-01-02T23:01:37-05:00

Add 4 weeks for additional weapons training and squad tactics. Throw in some additional land navigation and progressively improve PT.

Response by PVT Jon Evans made Jan 3 at 2017 7:11 AM

2017-01-03T07:11:25-05:00

Get rid of the stress cards make them become men not a bunch of wimps we never had that when I was in

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made Jan 3 at 2017 8:46 AM

2017-01-03T08:46:21-05:00

I wouldn't. Marine Corps Boot Camp is perfect.

Response by SPC Erich Guenther made Jan 3 at 2017 11:35 AM

2017-01-03T11:35:05-05:00

Restore the Drill Sergeant to AIT portion of the course. Give the Drill Sergeants more power in discipline and rejection of recruits as unfit for the Army.

Response by SPC Rob Lewis made Jan 3 at 2017 2:00 PM

2017-01-03T14:00:41-05:00

Discipline and PT are important but get back to the basic reason why the military is needed….To kill the bad guys and break shit….
Stress cards and social engineering have no place in the military period. The whole touchy feely aspect to today’s military is a weakness. I went thru basic in the early 80’s , cold war, Grenada, Berlin bombings, Regan as president, Iran hostage, etc. etc. Now you can’t even sing a good’ol cadence because it is not politically correct.
Everyone gets a black beret; I had to earn my maroon beret.
Get back to being a army, not a meals on wheels …

Response by Sgt Joseph Baker made Jan 3 at 2017 4:37 PM

2017-01-03T16:37:03-05:00

Ok, another time I think I can speak for at least most of the Marines here: We wished it sucked MORE!!!! (I apologize if the capital letters stressed anyone)

Response by SPC Justin Foster made Jan 3 at 2017 6:12 PM

2017-01-03T18:12:18-05:00

I feel like my basic training was run pretty well. I'll admit I was one of those who truly had no idea what I was getting myself into, and so I definitely got my fair share of "extra attention" from my drill sergeants, but in hindsight it was necessary. One of my drill sergeants said something that made me laugh later one day while he was smoking me, "Foster, you're going to leave here smart or strong!" Haha. This was only 10 years ago, but we got smoked as a platoon and as individuals multiple times per day, we did not have cell phones or stress cards, and we had to meet all training requirements to graduate. I felt it was a good balance between hardnosed and sticking to the point of training.

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Jan 3 at 2017 8:48 PM

2017-01-03T20:48:52-05:00

It wasn't that hard physically, but 13 weeks was a mental grind. I would have liked more upper body work than leg work, my legs were so big I couldn't get my civie pants on past my knees. I also gained 31 lbs in boot camp went in 151 came out 182, go figure.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 4 at 2017 1:02 AM

2017-01-04T01:02:57-05:00

Great conversation piece PV2 Tong Li! 100% better then yesterday's posts...... sorry for the meme, the filter on my smart meter doesn't work right all the time. ;P

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 4 at 2017 2:17 AM

2017-01-04T02:17:08-05:00

To bad this question is not about being the "supreme" Commander of TRADOC, but ok I will play.

I would reimplement the hands on learning and rectification training.
There would only be one standard..... The Army Standard. If a male trainee must do XYZ then female trainees must be able to do the same.
From day one The cadre would start to teach and implement core values and remind trainees they do not have choices only directives.
Non combat arms Basic would be extended by 3-4 weeks with a heavy implementation and education in more combat arms training, more range time, more FTX etc.
Combat arms basic training would be extended by another 3-4 weeks with some implementation of " Ranger" training, such as more intense stress fire, heavier PT etc.
NO ! GD cell phones learn to write letters! No wifi usable to do anything but the work at hand for those units needing the use of computers.
It would be the goal to pound in to each soldier that their male and female counterparts are just soldiers. Nothing more.
If a soldier isn't able to pull their own weight then they should be dropped from training.
Soldiers should not be allowed to use MEDCOM as their private vacation spot. Cadre should have an open door policy to go speak with the MD treating the soldier and find out if the soldier is fit or unfit. If unfit the soldier should be immediately placed back in basic and used an example of weakness.

Daily inspections of lockers should be back on the to do list, remember the days everyone got smoked because some shmuck failed to place his locker correctly.
Fire Guard...... The trainee and his battle buddy will do it and do it correctly. Trash cans a lids at 0200 full of joy and ready to march around the bay while drinking water between push ups and kicks.
By God make them soldiers again. Remind them and instill in them the work it takes To earn the pride of wearing the uniform.

( I may have a lot of typos sorry I'ts my insomnia, I do apologize)

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 4 at 2017 2:17 AM

2017-01-04T02:17:13-05:00

Response by Nathan Cromwell made Jan 4 at 2017 4:01 AM

2017-01-04T04:01:45-05:00

I went to sand hill in 2014 for inf training. I loved it. Failed because my fat ass wasnt in shape. Surprising seeing as we were smoked every day after about 2 and a half weeks when my SrDI came into picture. I feel it was the point in my life that made me be able to do things i didnt want to do. Like getting up early every morning and goin to work. Or cleaning when needed. And it also taught me to be optimistic. I may have failed the army but the army still molded me to be a better person and maybe taught me how to be a man a little.

Response by PO3 John Wagner made Jan 4 at 2017 5:25 AM

2017-01-04T05:25:56-05:00

Have senior recruits tossed in for a week with new boots. The senior recruit will certainly have enough sense to teach everything precisely right..after all barracks tidiness and readiness is the most rigorous and discipline building part of training.. It will teach leadership and attention to detail to the more senior recruits.. and emulation by the more junior recruits. Let's face it. You are shit tired all the time and shellshocked for at least the first few weeks.
The senior recruits are not going to tear off your head and shit down your neck. They aren't allowed to do so however your CC ismwhich males him a rather, appropriately, terrifying, individual..the more senior boots can also be more closely evaluated for leadership ability as well. The junior CC is going to be if nothing else a direct representative of the angel of death after all.
The experience will also help the new recruit learn to respect the slightly more senior soldiers of the same
rank.
In a way it reflects many informal yet complex,rituals,learned in childhood in a professional setting ..follow the leader so to speak. Hopefully avoid the perfectly natural temptation to walk around like a pea turkey,with its first hardon the first day after graduation...which is the biggest deal most of these VERY young men have ever had...."Ah, yes,we,believed we were,the newly ordained God's of creation even when puking in the entryway of the barracks ". Or,so my recollection is. I didn't I just swallowed prior to,full,ejection..( he lied convincingly assuming everyone must go along with the small falsehood)

Fuckin' shit weather...and steady 15 mph breeze...that's like a breeze here in any case.
Doesn't bother him a bit...bastard!.....gets loose on me in the winter runs across the river and goes interstate fugitive..one of these day I'll be wearing that coat!

Response by SPC Joseph Yusi made Jan 4 at 2017 9:39 AM

2017-01-04T09:39:56-05:00

id give my left nut to be in the military again. id show these cupcakes of today how it was when i was in boot camp. you need to know going in,its a head game. "play the game". the physicality will weed the weak ones out too. also,a soldier needs to be physically knocked on his ass once in a while by a ds. and not with the pugil sticks either! i understand they have cards now a days.. whats this,soccer? gimme a break. and were supposed to be the best and toughest military around. act like it!

Response by SSG Stephan Pendarvis made Jan 4 at 2017 2:08 PM

2017-01-04T14:08:33-05:00

tough question....I say bring back the old way of doing Military business. Let's make the military great again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 4 at 2017 5:46 PM

2017-01-04T17:46:11-05:00

the requirements to be active need to stay as is so if you need 60/60/60 to pass apft in the regular army then you should be held to that standard while in boot, heard many things from boots that di's told them you'll get that training when you get to your unit, that's the wrong answer, when we get them we expect they know how to march, salute, wear the uniform correctly and pass an apft, and these little snowflakes need to know what its like to have an nco up in their grill for doing wrong, not a time out card, these di's are building soldiers to do things that a normal person would run the other way that's the millitary

Response by SGT Jonathan Hill made Jan 5 at 2017 12:17 AM

2017-01-05T00:17:26-05:00

No offense females. Stop coed training. It doesn't do anyone any good. Or train everyone the same. That hasn't happened since coed training started. So glad I was one of the last all male basic training in knox. I saw a huge drop in trained soldiers after that. Again not being sexism just stating a fact.

Response by SMSgt Keith Klug made Jan 5 at 2017 7:53 AM

2017-01-05T07:53:57-05:00

Air Force Basic Training, which I know is much different than Army and Marine Corp Boot Camp, is designed to take individuals and turn them into people who work for a team goal and teach you to listen and execute orders. I know it seemed stupid to have to fold your clothes a certain way and to have your locker set up a certain way, but it also taught people how to follow "simple detailed instructions". This is key for those personnel who worked on aircraft and had to follow a tech order to the letter, and not just do it they way they want to. I know it helped me be a better Law Enforcement Troop. The best thing I can remember from basic training is meeting people from other parts of the US and learning about them and what their lives were like. I remember several of us going to the retirement ceremony of our Training Instructor while we were in Tech School at Lackland AFB.

Response by SFC Bobby Thompson made Jan 5 at 2017 8:25 AM

2017-01-05T08:25:13-05:00

I would make training harder physically and mentally. If a trainee does not pass I would definitely fail them. My goal would be to improve the quality of the troops being produced by the schools, because it seems like a lot of todays troops do focus on their purpose.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 5 at 2017 12:40 PM

2017-01-05T12:40:49-05:00

Id personally focus on physical fitness. A lot of soldiers are getting hurt too quickly out of basic, and then I saw writing skills listed above. Those would be my two things. I'm not sure if resilience training is within the training schedule but id definitely add that if its not .

Response by SPC Sheila Lewis made Jan 5 at 2017 3:48 PM

2017-01-05T15:48:24-05:00

Nothing wrong with Basic Training, plenty wrong with civilians.

Response by Cpl Dennis F. made Jan 5 at 2017 10:42 PM

2017-01-05T22:42:00-05:00

Stop graduating E2s, E3s and E4s out of Boot Camp.
Knowing some snowflake was getting a participation trophy (rank) for skills prior to boot would really piss me off if I was in that series. I also believe that it is potentially dangerous to promote what still should be ALL potential riflemen, with out any experience in the field or time in grade, to lead other Marines. I have seen office pouges and cooks sent out to perform reactionary duties during a fire fight. I would not want my fire team to be led by a newbie accountant E4 ,with no skills but number crunching.

Response by PFC Aaron Cox made Jan 10 at 2017 2:39 PM

2017-01-10T14:39:42-05:00

The first thing that should be done is not treat injured recruits like criminals. The second is better communication between trainers and medical staff. There are a few things that seriously hurt my career because leadership did not have its head out of its 4th point of contact. Lead by example should include common sense too. Additionally, Moral should never be sacrificed and the vision never taken from the recruits eyes.

Response by SGT Tim Fridley made Jan 10 at 2017 6:37 PM

2017-01-10T18:37:56-05:00

Not sure how they run things in Basic these days but have heard that they are too light on the recruits these days.

Response by PO1 Michael Garrett made Jan 18 at 2017 12:49 PM

2017-01-18T12:49:50-05:00

Eliminate the political correctness that has infected our military for the last 8 years. Instill a sense of the true meaning of unit cohesion within the ranks. Teach the new recruits to act like men-not the emasculated metrosexuals currently in fashion with the outgoing administration. Instill a sense of what it means to be a true sailor and have them learn the history of our service.

Response by PO3 William Farinas made Jan 18 at 2017 2:51 PM

2017-01-18T14:51:41-05:00

I know that it has been stressed by many even myself, that we need to make bootcamp much harder just like they have 80's back. We are preparing our troops for combat not a filed trip. If the stress level is not applied from day one how are the recruits suppose to handle the stresses of combat. I want only the best trained people serving with me in a time of crises in case I am injured that they can handle it with a cool calm head to not only save me but to save their selves and there team mates. We need to weed out the week at the very beginning before the Military invest to much money in that individual. I fill that the Military has gotten so pus affied and it brings down the morale of the outstanding hard charing personnel. I know that know one knows how a person will act in combat untill they are in that situation. Anyone who has been in that situation knows that the three F'S apply. But by raising the stress levels in bootcamp from day one, it will make surviving in those types of situations in the favor of the recruit. There are a lot of changes needed in the Military, we are loosing way to many good people with great skills that have so much to offer, because of how the Military has changed and the polices that have been put in place that has a negative impact on our troops. We need only the beast serving our Country. Thanks to all who have served !! HOO-YAH

Response by TSgt Kenneth Ellis made Jan 18 at 2017 3:59 PM

2017-01-18T15:59:04-05:00

Response by TSgt Kenneth Ellis made Jan 18 at 2017 4:01 PM

2017-01-18T16:01:14-05:00

Wait I just pulled up Democrats not going to the inauguration . And got this.

Response by Basic Cadet Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2017 8:37 AM

2017-01-20T08:37:33-05:00

I think the only one I would be willing to even give input on is marine corps boot camp. I wouldn't change anything except for allowing drill instructors more "hands on" and "free speaking" approaches to training recruits. If you get what I mean.

Response by Mark Bond made Jan 24 at 2017 7:15 AM

2017-01-24T07:15:43-05:00

Would definitely make it like it used to be,quite being so soft on them. Combat ain't soft, no stress cards there..give drill Sargent more leeway to put them in stressful situations, if they can't deal with it in training then they have no business on the battlefield.

Response by CWO2 Shelby DuBois made Jan 24 at 2017 9:15 AM

2017-01-24T09:15:42-05:00

While the cats mostly out of the bag, I'd ban all video's of Boot Camp from reaching the internet. There should be an element of suspense...drama...'Oh, Hell!" involved in reporting to Boot Camp.
Giving your opponents your playbook before a game makes your team vulnerable. Leave some mystery to the ultimate drama about to unfold.

Response by PO1 Rodney Bracey made Jan 31 at 2017 6:06 AM

2017-01-31T06:06:36-05:00

Life skills training. Financial training. Common sense stuff. Because apparently the Trophy Generation isn't being taught the basic skills at home.

Response by SGT Leon Riege made Feb 11 at 2017 12:58 PM

2017-02-11T12:58:43-05:00

reinstate the draft,the trickle down affect will be seen almost immediately

Response by PO3 Lee Swendsen made Feb 16 at 2017 1:32 PM

2017-02-16T13:32:40-05:00

Joined USNR while in 11th grade. The program called for BC A-School and 24 mos active. Our BC was 01JUN67 to 01SEPT67 at Glenview NAS. Mid way through BC, gas mask instruction, performed at Great Lakes Training Center. Our marching and drilling were significantly rated higher by GL DIs. Our DIs never pulled back on a punch. Our group about 100 strong, held our heads high when we received those accolades! Of course, at the time, we all swore if we saw a particular DI in civvies on the street he would pay for all the !@#$%^ he put us through. To this day I still fold many of my clothes the regulation way.

Response by Cpl Wally Gervas made Feb 23 at 2017 6:50 AM

2017-02-23T06:50:09-05:00

Yes, I'd go back to older ways. Things were changing even when I was in Boot in 74.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Mar 24 at 2018 5:56 AM

2018-03-24T05:56:14-04:00

No whinnying, no crying, no breaks- The Army is a place where you can die damn quick or kill your buddy damn quick, it's not a play ground and you don't get recess.

Response by SPC Charles Keiser made Mar 26 at 2018 7:11 PM

2018-03-26T19:11:49-04:00

THROW AWAY TIMEOUT CARD AND ALL OTHER CANDY ASS CRAP AND GET DOWN TO HARD TRAINING DAY AND NIGHT , ONCE ON THE GROUND IN REAL FACE TO FACE YOU HAD BETTER KNOW WHAT THE HELL YOU ARE DOING OR GET DEAD SOONER THAN LATER !

Response by PFC Tuan Trang made Jun 10 at 2018 8:17 PM

2018-06-10T20:17:43-04:00

Modify apft test, more time for recruit to pass, now that doesn't mean be easy on recruit it just help reduce physicial injury, less stress on the soldier and increase more chance for civilian signing up, i talk to alot of my peer that in civilian word and most of them worry about passing the apft, now for some of the soldier is easy, but not everyone is physical ready but still have some skill to contribute to the army. increases more motivation, hands on every subject for better understanding.