Posted on Mar 10, 2018
SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint
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I am writing an article and could leverage RP brain power. I have some paragraphs talking about
1. East German General Secretary Erich Honecher resigned in October 1989. Part of the reason was the unrest in East Germany and he had kidney cancer.
2. Spymaster of East Germany
Markus Wolf, was the communist East Germany’s long-serving spymaster who planted over 4,000 agents in the west, mostly in West Germany from 1951 to 1986. In 1990 he fled to Moscow but returned to the reunified Germany to stand trial after being refused asylum in Austria.
3. Hitler committed suicide and the Nuremberg Trials
4. . It was discovered that the Soviets were grabbing scientist for their future use. U.S. government brought 88 Nazi scientists captured during the fall of the Nazi Germany back to America. Only this time, according to History.com, they were working for the U.S. under a project known as “Operation Paperclip.”
5 ... What do you think will happen to North Korea Kim, Jong Un, Military Leaders, and Intell Leaders. Would US pull some to USA? nK Cyber troops?
Posted in these groups: North korea flag jpg North KoreaImages %2831%29 CyberGermany BerlinScience logo Science
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Responses: 22
LT Mike Folker
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I was in W. Germany in 1974 when Chancellor Willy Brandt's secy., Guenter Guillaume, a Wolf spy, was exposed. Brandt resigned as Chancellor, an unintended consequence of the caper, since Brandt was a left-leaning politician eager for rapprochement w/ the East & USSR.
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LT Mike Folker
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I am absolutely flabbergasted that no one appears to have mentioned the Pueblo. I'd wager that there should be no rapprochement w/ N.K. until it voluntarily returns the Pueblo.

Likely the only admin. official even aware of it is SECDEF, & he wouldn't care to have to explain it to his Pres., who is notoriously obdurate about any idea that's not his.
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SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint
SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint
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This was too long ago. We do not want the Koreans talking about our naval attack and landing in the last 1800s.
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SGT Retired
SGT (Join to see)
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LT Mike Folker: I understand you’re thinking. But on the other hand, to the North Koreans, the USS Pueblo is one of their greatest trophies. While it indeed stings, and it was shameful what happened to our sailors and the ship, the overwhelming majority of the crew came home decades ago, and the ship itself is obsolete.

Instead of rehashing the past and demanding they return their greatest war trophy (which will never happen), I think a more prudent course would be to make sure the history and story of the Pueblo is never forgotten. Unfortunately, it’s becoming less and less known with each generation of troop.

But if it comes up with North Korea, “huh, what Pueblo? We decommissioned her years ago.” Part of the allure of what makes the Pueblo such a high value trophy for them is that we want it back so badly. If they think that we don’t care about the physical ship (the story will always be important, relevant), the luster of their trophy starts to dull. A subtle way to chip away at the populations idea of the DPRK aura of infallibility.

Just a thought..
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SGT Kyle Bickley
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Civil War. Kim won't give up leadership. He and many others need to stand trial at the Hague! Then short end of a rope! The guy is a butcher! What they are doing to their own people is inexcusable!
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PV2 Signals Intelligence Analyst
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In the event of warfare and the likely war crimes to follow, much of the north korean political and military leadership would be held to blame. Those that aren't as connected but still have some pull will try to embed themselves into the new politcal scene.

As for north korean experts in cyber and nuclear I don't it would be something they'd be in the same priority as the German researchers. It isn't that US cyber command doesn't understand computer science and it's a new field of physics. The US military doesn't put as much investment into cyber warfare amd has its hands tied on some issues. The issue we had when it came to securing data and scientists was nuclear engineering was still in its relative infancy. (no pun intended) Major powers were about on par with each other when it came to progress in WMDs and needed anything new they could access. Cyber, it's known America's enemies just put more resources into their programs and systems
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SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint
SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint
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PV2 (Join to see) You have some good thoughts...I think you hit the nail on the head when you said, "The US military doesn't put as much investment into cyber warfare and has its hands tied on some issues." We do have our hands tied in many cases, just as you will find in your MOS. I am not sure that War Crimes will be a major issue with China and Russia. in fact, a smart lawyer might say that China assisted and was an assessor to some War Crimes committed by nK.
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LT Brad McInnis
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1) I don't think there will be a power grab/drain of tech people (like post WWII Germany). From what I understand, most of the technology people are foreigners anyway (mainly Russian and Chinese) and they will just go home.
2) The leadership is probably pretty nervous what will happen to them afterwords, when the average people find out why they have been living in such horrible conditions. I don't force a massive uprising, as the people are physically weak, while the military is better fed. Granted, that pre-supposes that the military won't side with he people, in which case the leadership should be really worried.
3) SOKO and China are both wondering how they are going to fix the massive humanitarian crisis that will emerge when people are allowed in to the country. Food, medicines, etc., are going to be a massive undertaking. Then the overall idea of what the country will do economically afterwords.... what economic unions will accept them, what banking systems will let them in, heck what are they going to produce (not like they are huge farmers or industrialists).

I will be honest that NOKO was never really covered in any of my Far East political science courses.
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LTC Jason Mackay
LTC Jason Mackay
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Yes the humanitarian aftermath is another in the long list of shit sandwiches left after a conflict or an implosion. No one wants to absorb these folks.
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SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint
SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint
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Pre-1950, North Korea was the economic power over South Korea. nK has always had more natural resources and materials. They had the factories and the South was the farmers. Times have changed!
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LTC Self Employed
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Thank you, Jim, for summarizing were these men went and left after the wall went down.
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SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint
SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint
6 y
Now, where will those in the nK be when the DMZ is broken down?
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LTC Self Employed
LTC (Join to see)
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probably fleet to the southernmost province of China to be close to the border with North Korea to set up a counter-revolutionary movement to bring back communism with help of Vladimir Putin
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SGM Bill Frazer
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NK situation is much different- DRG did not "hero-worship" any of the leaders, nor was a cult built by the leadership. DRG was separated for roughly 40 years, yet had some contact but visiting family occasionally, NK has hated us for 60 years, and there are virtually know family visits to let the common folks see the NK lies. The NVKD and it's Russian counter- part might arrest you, send you to a work camp, but there was a chance to get released. NK if they don't kill you 1st, will work you too death in a camp. Forget any release hope. If Fat Boy dies, he was rigged things so his sister take over, might be Civil War, but don't think they would come across the DMZ, till after their ducks where in a row.
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SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint
SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint
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SGM Bill Frazer You have some great points, about East Germany is not the same and the indoctrination of the masses.
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Maj John Bell
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Highly unlikely, but I think the only way Kim Jong In steps down voluntarily is after the guarantee of asylum and a dream life in "captive" exile for him and his family. I doubt that will happen, and I doubt that China will let it happen.

If Kim Jong UN isn't the Chinese "crazy attack dog" they will engineer his replacement with a more progressive someone else who can and will follow orders, but will remain a bit "totally nuts." when it comes to the US and its allies. The NKDP is done if ever a significant minority of their population gets to see South Korea and go home to tell the truth.
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SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint
SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint
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Great point on if nK get to see South Korea.
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LTC Jason Mackay
LTC Jason Mackay
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SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint - some defectors could not cope with life in the south and went home. I assume they were dead quickly, but they had to have said something to,others before they were smoked.
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MSgt Alvin A.
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This is a brutal Regime. They are using political prisoners as test subjects for biological weapons. It is very hard intellectually to argue that they should be given a pass just because the argument is, "If we don't give them a pass, no peace is possible!" Sometimes a War is required on Morality alone.
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SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint
SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint
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MSgt Alvin A. But, we did take some scientist and players from the Nazis and they had a chem bio test program.
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LTC Jason Mackay
LTC Jason Mackay
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SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint - but the leadership stood and hung together at Nuremberg.
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LTC Jason Mackay
LTC Jason Mackay
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SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint - there may Be value for exploiting their technocrats, but it is not really with direct impact to cyber, nuclear, etc. it would be to figure out who they worked with off peninsula, who paid who, what technology and materiel were transferred, etc. the rumor is that AQ Khan was in that mix. Who else? Who held the money? That is more valuable than a virus here and a piece of malware there.
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SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint
SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint
6 y
LTC Jason Mackay - Strongly agree that there is more than just the virus that we would want. The how they made the massive jump in rocket and nuke tech...that and what indicators did we miss?
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LTC Jason Mackay
LTC Jason Mackay
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SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint - exactly. We'll get that from mid level technocrats than anyone else.
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SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint
SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint
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LTC Jason Mackay - And mid-level will be cheaper! :)
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MAJ Alvin B.
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Perhaps. Yes, the US have done so in the past. However, in general, there was a moral element to the selection process. If useful; what have they done in the past, can they be trusted now, where do their loyalties and ideology rest? The isolation ok the DPRK poses unique challenges. However, I suspect the US will be interested, if the opportunities exist.

A key overall difference is the collapse of the nation in each of the previous cases. North Korea may have issues; however, it is still a viable national entity.
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SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint
SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint
6 y
Morals have changed. Remember, the Dresden Firebombing of the city was done by the Allies. It was effective and we won. We now call that generation the Greatest Generation.
Thanks for the good comments.
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MAJ Alvin B.
MAJ Alvin B.
6 y
Some do. The children of the WWII generation spent decades condemning them, only modifying their stance when a book author coined the term; any a great many of the generation were dead.
As to morals - fire bombing was used on several citie; and the Allies permitted acts to preserve advantages.
There are no clean wars, and few absolutes.
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SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint
SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint
6 y
MAJ Alvin B. - Sometimes, fighting cleanly can hurt us more. World War 2 much much shorter than current AFG and Iraq.
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