Immigration. Should illegals be offered a path to citizenship?

SSG Red Hoffman — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 15:57:59 -0400

Two-Thirds of Americans Favor Citizenship for Illegal Immigrants

Poll says 65 percent of Americans favor path to citizenship for illegal immigrants

Response by SSG Red Hoffman made Aug 19 at 2015 4:05 PM

SSG Red Hoffman — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 16:05:21 -0400

I have a strong opinion on this, but I am wanting to hear what others think on the subject. I married a woman from the Philippines. We crossed every T, dotted every I, paid every fee, filed every form and waited....and waited and waited. It took a year, but I finally got her and my son here, legally. We just went through the process again (x2) to get her parents here. Legitimately met all criteria and forms, fees, etc. etc....

I feel all immigrants should have to meet all the criteria as well BEFORE they are allowed to come here as permanent residents. This issue gets clouded in the case where a family may have three children (born here in the US) and have been here for years, but are still illegal. I feel a program should be in place to handle this situation, but only in the cases where the parents have been productive members of society and have not broken any laws.

I could go on...but I would like to see what others think. Thanks in advance, for responding.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2015 4:06 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 16:06:44 -0400

There is a path for citizenship.

Why should those who have ignored the path and entered the country illegally (or have stayed past their legal status) be granted citizenship ahead of those who are trying to enter the country legally?

If you have kids do you reward the one misbehaving and punish the one who is not?

Response by MSgt Matthew Meindl made Aug 19 at 2015 4:13 PM

MSgt Matthew Meindl — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 16:13:51 -0400

The same chance as everyone else. First step out of the country and then get in line like everyone else. Submit the proper requests, perform the required actions and become a citizen.

Response by COL Jean (John) F. B. made Aug 19 at 2015 4:24 PM

COL Jean (John) F. B. — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 16:24:32 -0400

SSG Red Hoffman - Only if they become legal and fulfill whatever requirements that would entail (fine, back taxes, etc.). The only thing they should get, if they are illegal, is jail or deportation.

Response by MSgt Stephen Council made Aug 19 at 2015 4:35 PM

MSgt Stephen Council — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 16:35:14 -0400

Sure, a successful 20 year career in the US Military should suffice.

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2015 4:58 PM

SrA Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 16:58:40 -0400

Similar to you Redd, my wife and I went through all the necessary channels to get her legal right to live here. However, rounding them all up and doing mass deportation is much easier said than done and extremely expensive.

Response by PO3 Danielle Sandlin made Aug 19 at 2015 5:07 PM

PO3 Danielle Sandlin — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 17:07:52 -0400

I would like to see this country take care of our own before we take care of everyone else. To be truthful. The only accelerated path I see is serving this country, because lord knows we need to build our military up again.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Aug 19 at 2015 5:25 PM

MCPO Roger Collins — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 17:25:12 -0400

Sure, go home and apply for citizenship, just like all those before you.
"A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 60% of Likely U.S. Voters think the U.S. government is not aggressive enough in deporting those who are in this country illegally. That shows little change from April but is up from 52% in April of last year. Twelve percent (12%) think the government is too aggressive, down from 16% in April. Sixteen percent (16%) now think the number of deportations is about right, while 12% are not sure. (To see survey question wording, click here.) is a Libertarian group and they think most everything is OK."

From a reputable polling firm.

Response by LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow made Aug 19 at 2015 5:31 PM

LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 17:31:42 -0400

Many will "pooh-pooh" it as liberal propaganda, but the movie, "A Day without a Mexican" makes clear the contributions to our economy. Last season in Washington state, an Apple grower tried to hire American workers in his orchard, and none took him up on the job.

So, yes, illegal immigrants who are working and contributing to the economy should be granted a path to citizenship. Further, their children, who were brought here as very young folks should be immediately granted a path, given that they had no choice in the matter. They don't, for the most part, even speak Spanish, so deporting them to their countries of origin is crazy...

Response by PO1 Aaron Baltosser made Aug 19 at 2015 5:44 PM

PO1 Aaron Baltosser — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 17:44:51 -0400

No they shouldn't. Their very presence is a security risk, and shows awillingness to disregard the law.

Response by SN Steven Fast made Aug 19 at 2015 6:38 PM

SN Steven Fast — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 18:38:13 -0400

No they should not be granted citizenship. Illegal immigrants need to be deported to the country from whence they came, and if they come here illegally again, they should be shot on sight.

Response by SrA Daniel Hunter made Aug 19 at 2015 8:40 PM

SrA Daniel Hunter — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 20:40:13 -0400

Yes, the same path everyone who is doing it legally are on.

Response by MSgt Niclas Svensson made Aug 19 at 2015 8:45 PM

MSgt Niclas Svensson — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 20:45:31 -0400

I think there is no one blanket rule to cover everyone. Using my own personal experience as an example.

My wife (who is now a legal permanent resident after years of fighting the system and lots of legal fees) was brought here illegally at a very young age. She grew up here, went to school here, speaks English...this country is all she knows.

By some people's reckoning, when she turned 18, she should have had to return to Mexico and "get in line" to do it the right way. My question is, why should she be forced to return to a country that she knows nothing of and has no real tangible ties to when she did not make the decision to come here in the first place. How is it fair or just to send someone who spent thier entire childhood in the US back to a country that they know nothing about. Pathways to citizenship should absolutely be provided to children of illegals that wish to become US citizens when they turn 18. This comes with the stipulation that they should immediately seek this out upon turning 18 and not continue to try and live here as an illegal gaining benefits while not contributing. I met my wife at age 18 and we immediately began working with an immigration lawyer to try and rectify her situation.

Now...should her mom, who actually made the decision to come here illegally, be given any kind of special treatment? Absolutely not, and neither should any other person who willfully crosses the border illegally, but I don't think that children should be punished for the sins of thier parents.

Response by Maj William Gambrell made Aug 19 at 2015 9:15 PM

Maj William Gambrell — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 21:15:44 -0400

I would say yes. But they do need to complete the requirements already listed by others...back taxes, fines and what not. But, there is another requirement I would add. Prove you have a skill set that is needed in this country. One of the democrat's arguments is that the commercial industry needs skilled workers willing to work at lower wages that can't be filled by US citizens due to shortage. Okay, first the gov't needs to identify these jobs with a special skill set that can't be filled and then we need to ensure the immigrant is capable performing the function of that job.

Response by PO2 Peter Klein made Aug 19 at 2015 9:58 PM

PO2 Peter Klein — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 21:58:15 -0400

SSG Red Hoffman you bring up a key point that our politicians will eventually have to handle (and probably not well.) And because the politicians can't make a decision over anything except to follow money, it may not be a good decision.
Know a lady who has followed the process exactly and after 12 years is still waiting to be processed.
My son-in-law is British. He had to go through a lot to get his visa. He did it by the book, has been here almost two years and still has more steps to take.
There definitely needs to be a defined program that details what a person must do to gain legal status if they are currently illegal. It should not be a long process (see above.) Perhaps the completion certain steps grant the applicant specific rewards that further them along their path.

Response by SGT Mary G. made Aug 19 at 2015 11:27 PM

SGT Mary G. — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 23:27:10 -0400

I served with someone from the Dominican Republic who joined the U.S. Army . . . and got a fast track to citizenship in five years. How about someone from a family of illegal immigrants being required to serve in the military to become a legal immigrant and then a sponsor of other family members?
I have a friend who did everything the right way, legally, and through a very expensive lawyer whose assistance with immigration paperwork seemed to correlate to having received a large amount of funding over time. Once the lawyer's apparent target cost had been reached then he did his job. Immigrating legally is costly and time-consuming. (The friend had earned a BA, MA, and Ph.D. as a scholarship student living in U.S. 15 years without being able to legally work, and eventually was hired to teach at a university that sponsored legal residency.)
Why should folks be awarded citizenship for illegally immigrating? Let them serve in the military if they want to be exonerated and have the opportunity to become citizens. Anyone who immigrates also needs to assimilate and become American to add to a previous cultural identity. Culturally, the military is a great equalizer and maker of good citizens . . . a preferable method of assimilating compared to learning from trashy Hollywood movies that scrape the bottom of the barrel of human decency.

Response by TSgt Kenneth Ellis made Aug 20 at 2015 1:43 AM

TSgt Kenneth Ellis — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 01:43:34 -0400

One do they want citizenship. Two what about the people who immigrated the right way and who are still waiting. I had to pay for every form I submitted for my wife. And I still had to hire a lawyer. So will Onama reimburse me? Not holding my breath.

Response by SN Timothy Ehrenhaft made Aug 20 at 2015 2:25 AM

SN Timothy Ehrenhaft — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 02:25:28 -0400

I believe any immigrant who earns an honorable discharge after at least 1 active duty tour in any of the 5 branches should be rewarded with citizenship. If they are so truly committed to becoming citizens, they will have no reservations with putting their life on the line like the rest of us. Our founding fathers put their lives on the line as immigrants and became citizens - I see no problem with following their example and making it a new tradition. While the efficacy can be a circular debate, 25 nations of the world have compulsory military service (most only for men). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_service

As for how to deal with existing illegals, give them an option - tour of duty or deportation. I'm aware that some are deported several times and still get back in. To that point, I say bus them directly to the front lines - no deportation... Those individuals have proven they really want to be in the US, so compulsory service will ensure their path to citizenship.

Anchor babies to illegals - the parents become work-visa'd nannies until the first child's 18th birthday, or they earn citizenship before the 18th birthday of the first child. If the parents are still illegal by the 18th birthday of their anchor child, then the nanny visa expires and the illegal immigrant parents are sent to the front lines to earn their citizenship.

It's fairly simple once you find a way to funnel them into a path that guarantees the desired outcome. The current immigration/deportation system may as well be "catch and release", since there is a staggering number of repeat immigration offenders and illegals with known repeat, or pre-existing, criminal behaviour. https://www.numbersusa.com/news/study-almost-all-deported-illegal-aliens-were-criminals

Deportation isn't solving the problem, so maybe compulsory service will. They'll get job training that can lead to a career (in or out of service), healthcare, a roof over their head (barracks only, no BEQ/MEQ), access to university degree education (degree programs should also be mandatory service-wide, but that's another thread), a paycheck, and they'll pay into the tax system that is currently being leached. Oh, drafting, conscription, compulsory service, that's so against their civil rights - illegals are criminals, make them earn their freedom. Make them earn their citizenship through service - they'll come out with more to offer than an ID card and criminal intent.

... end rant...

Military service - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Military service is service by an individual or group in an army or other militia, whether as a chosen job or as a result of an involuntary draft (conscription). Some nations (e.g., Mexico) require a specific amount of military service from every citizen (except for special cases, such as physical or mental disorders or religious beliefs, and most countries that have conscription only conscript men). A nation with a fully volunteer military...

Response by SFC Joseph Weber made Aug 20 at 2015 10:06 AM

SFC Joseph Weber — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 10:06:00 -0400

I believe there should be a path towards citizenship. It might be a very convoluted and difficult path but just deporting everyone does little.

Response by SrA Erin Hood made Aug 20 at 2015 11:11 AM

SrA Erin Hood — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 11:11:45 -0400

Key word here is "Legal". A person's legal status obviously comes from a given legal system.
Ultimately all economies boil down to human effort, the man-hour.
Without a disparity (of currency/exchange rate), what's the incentive to escape poverty?

Fix the money. let people keep their wealth.

"Bloom where you are planted." In a nutshell, or a gum-ball, if you will...
NumbersUSA has information on this topic, for those of you who have not seen this presentation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPjzfGChGlE

Immigration, World Poverty and Gumballs - Updated 2010

Immigration - Global humanitarian reasons for current U.S. immigration are tested in this updated version of immigration author and journalist Roy Beck's col...

Response by SSG Red Hoffman made Aug 20 at 2015 1:07 PM

SSG Red Hoffman — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 13:07:19 -0400

This article popped up in Yahoo News today. I thought it was on topic: https://www.yahoo.com/politics/birthright-citizenship-where-the-2 [login to see] 85661.html

Response by AN Carolyn L. made Aug 20 at 2015 1:16 PM

AN Carolyn L. — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 13:16:24 -0400

Years ago, I would have said "yes". Now, it is a homeland security issue and I can no longer support this policy.

Response by CPO Charles Mabry made Aug 20 at 2015 1:45 PM

CPO Charles Mabry — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 13:45:59 -0400

Absolutely not! There is already a system in place, not matter how inefficient or slow, to become an American citizen...and I am all for anyone coming here who does it the right way. Everyone who has illegally entered the country should be deported and get in line like everyone else. We should not punish the folks who are going through the burden of doing it the correct way.

Response by PO1 Glenn Boucher made Aug 20 at 2015 2:04 PM

PO1 Glenn Boucher — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 14:04:04 -0400

No because they broke the law by being here illegally in the first place.
How do you trust them to serve honorably when they are known to break the rules they don't like?

Response by PO1 Scott Cottrell made Aug 20 at 2015 6:15 PM

PO1 Scott Cottrell — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 18:15:50 -0400

My wife is Filipina, and has not been to the US yet. As I work overseas anyway, it is cheaper for her to remain in the Philippines while I am unaccompanied status here in the Marshal Islands. If I were to take a stateside job, we would then go through the procedures to have her come to the US legally. That said, my ex-wife, also Filipina, it took over a year and over a thousand dollars in legal and filing fees to get her to the US legally. It takes time and money to come to the US legally, so why give a free pass to someone who breaks our law by coming to the US illegally, and penalties to people who go through legal immigation to come to the US?

Response by PO2 Corey Ferretti made Aug 20 at 2015 7:32 PM

PO2 Corey Ferretti — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 19:32:35 -0400

I am 50/50 on this. Working on the race track I met alot of illegals. They all had to pay taxes and worked their butt's off. Some got their citizenship and I feel they deserve it. But at the same time there is a way to get here legally and that should be followed. What we need to do is enforce our immigration laws and don't turn a blind eye to the ones that we know are illigal. So until we do that nothing will be fixed.

Response by SGT Jerrold Pesz made Aug 20 at 2015 8:35 PM

SGT Jerrold Pesz — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 20:35:45 -0400

Illegals should be offered a path to jail.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Aug 21 at 2015 5:53 AM

PO1 John Miller — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 05:53:50 -0400

There is already a path to citizenship!

With that said, I do agree that the immigration process needs to be fixed but people who are living here illegally should not be streamlined, fast tracked, choose your term.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Aug 21 at 2015 5:54 AM

PO1 John Miller — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 05:54:25 -0400

Also, this poll is pretty biased. Nobody asked me to participate in it!

Response by SSgt Boyd Welch made Aug 21 at 2015 10:41 AM

SSgt Boyd Welch — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 10:41:25 -0400

It's interesting that when you talk to hispanics who have become naturalized citizens through the legal process, they have a lot of resentment for those who are "border crossers". or are granted amnesty. They feel like they have worked for the right to be here but yet the US gives every benefit to those who have not earned it.

Response by CPO Don Lamb made Aug 27 at 2015 1:11 PM

CPO Don Lamb — Thu, 27 Aug 2015 13:11:35 -0400

Let us think about this a minute. If someone was to illegally enter your home when you were gone, eat your food and watch pay per view on your TV (a lot of pay per view shows and movies) running you bill way up, wear your cloths and take a butch of them with them when they moved on to someone else's home, sell your electronics (TV, Stereo, Blue Ray player, take your wife or husband's jewelry and yours, kill your dog, cat and fish and then burn your home down. Would you consider that a crime? Well then isn't illegally entering our country, receiving welfare, free medical, food stamps and other charity of which much is paid for by the taxes that you pay to the state and federal government, etc... for your entire adult life. And then you see American citizens that for cause of their own have lost their job and because of the Presidents bad economy cannot get a new job and their unemployment (which is just a small pittance, much less than they earned when working or the illegals get from welfare) runs out and they and their family cannot get any help or a job, but the illegal gets help, even free college or discounted college in many states. Now is this a crime. YES IT IS! Because it all started with them illegally entering the country which makes all the government aid they get there after actually fraud. This is like you drive a guy to the store knowing he plans to steal some crab, but he gets caught and kills the store manager. Not only does he get charged with attempted theft or theft if he gets away and murder, but so do you get charged as an accessory to each of his crimes even if you had no intent for any of it past the stealing the crab to happen.

Response by SPC David Hannaman made Sep 11 at 2015 5:55 PM

SPC David Hannaman — Fri, 11 Sep 2015 17:55:38 -0400

Yes, Set up checkpoints at strategic locations, take fingerprints, DNA, health screen, give them a tax ID, and let them into a holding area.

When someone offers them a job they can go to that job, pay taxes, buy goods, perform services.

Set stipulations such as community service, integration in language and culture, and as the "checklist" is met, grant citizenship if it's desired.

Until they are a citizen benefits are not granted... no voting, no gun ownership, no welfare, free healthcare or social security, search warrants are not required, debts are not bankrupt-able, and no land ownership, wages are deposited into bank accounts, and purchases are made with debit/credit cards. Return to your homeland any time you'd like.

The one exception would be the court system, they are given the full right to a speedy trial, and upon conviction they are banished never to return (with communication to their homeland of what they did so they can determine if they want them walking the streets to avoid dumping serial criminals on an ally's streets.

Then with a tracking system in place (the money, DNA and fingerprints), and a blacklist at the checkpoints, we can get tough about border security without worrying about killing some poor starving grandmother and her grandchildren. The thought process being, "If they're not crossing at the checkpoint, they're up to no good." Phalanx CIWS 30mm radar guided Gatling cannons with interlocking fields of fire should do the trick... Again, not trying to hurt the innocent, just the smugglers, terrorists, and criminals that wouldn't be allowed through the checkpoints.

In short, make it easy for people willing to come make a better life for themselves and their children, because they benefit society as a whole... and offset the Lazy Americans that won't get off their ass and work, and be harsh to those who would do us harm. The carrot and the stick.

Response by SGT Jerrold Pesz made Sep 24 at 2015 3:45 PM

SGT Jerrold Pesz — Thu, 24 Sep 2015 15:45:57 -0400

No.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Sep 25 at 2015 11:11 AM

MCPO Roger Collins — Fri, 25 Sep 2015 11:11:28 -0400

The path for citizenship exists today, these people just want to go to the head of the line. That is unfair to all those that do things properly and wait for years to gain legal entry into our great nation. They should all come forward and identify themselves and be given temporary work permits, and be put in line for a spot immediately after all those legally applying for entry. NOTE: I did not say deport or put them on a bus, we do need the labor since we have a great number of natural born citizens that will not work for a living and we need the taxes to pay for their keep. Those that don't identify themselves are probably involved in nefarious businesses.