In the middle of heated debate, where do you stop and think that this is where you should probably draw the line (suicide vs. depression)?

SSG Jessica Bautista — Sat, 08 Oct 2016 23:52:42 -0400

Admittedly, I do have a little fun poking at controversy, but now I have access to a whole bunch of fearless and outspoken Vets and servicemembers. Cool beans.

I have been creeping around these threads, and I notice two very broad reaction to feelings in general: the haves and the have-nots. Specifically, the haves generally care about social issues and care about people as a whole, while the have-nots generally care more about personal freedoms, other groups be damned. Of course, there are also those who have a leg on each side of the line.

I think we all agree that suicide is a sad thing, and no one should have to feel as if that is their last resort (correct me if I'm wrong). Depression may be a gray area for some (not to be confused with sadness. We're talking long-term, uncontrollable depression), and we can dismiss someone's constant complaining as just being "a whiney liberal" or a "selfish *sshole" when in fact, they are in pain.

So I ask you, the honest people of RP, at which point do you stop to wonder if a person is okay? Where, in the middle of heated debate, do you stop and think that this is where you should probably draw the line? Is there even a line you don't cross? Or do you fight against your brother or sister until they fold, regardless of consequences?

For the sake of this thread, I only have one rule: I'd like knee-jerk reactions. Don't pause to research, don't phone a friend, don't poll the audience. Since it's not related to politics, we don't need to talk about candidates. If you're still reading this, you're a beast and deserve cookies.

Response by Sgt Wayne Wood made Oct 9 at 2016 12:04 AM

Sgt Wayne Wood — Sun, 09 Oct 2016 00:04:34 -0400

I worked a suicide hotline after losing a close friend... can i play?

First, a suicidal person may not be outwardly depressed... my friend, for instance. Just graduated college, just moved into a new apartment, just got a new boyfriend, just got a new job... all this in the course of a few (2-3) weeks. One day after work she went home, cleaned the house, lay down in the bathtub and killed herself with a shotgun. We figured she did it in the tub so there wouldn't be a mess... we, her friends, felt guilty. What did we miss? Why didn't we see it? How could we help?

Reality, shit happens. There is a significant percentage of suicides that occur in people who have the world by the tail... shit happens...

Next?

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Oct 9 at 2016 12:05 AM

CPT Pedro Meza — Sun, 09 Oct 2016 00:05:00 -0400

Suicide for some depending of what life is treating them to becomes the only option, it is sad that at times we have no solutions and we are left to try to understand and not judge those that take their life.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 9 at 2016 12:58 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 09 Oct 2016 00:58:05 -0400

Admitting you have a problem and that you have drug or alcohol issues is the first step to getting a grip and staying alive. Consuming alcohol, pain killers and taking anti-depressants like my sister is not a good mix to help you get over your mental problems.

Honestly, I lost my sister to Suicide on the 4th of July, 2015. She was 49. She had over 3 decades of feeling bad for being down and out for having an abortion (A civilian having post traumatic stress) in her teens and later she had a tumor and she had a hyserectomy. She blew her chance to have kids. She could not bear children which made her feel guilty.She had 8 little dogs to compensate.

She went through 3 marriages. She left the first one because he worked hard and did not go party like she did for over a decade, She left her second partying and driniking buddy husband for a death row inmate who she knew in High School though he was on death row and She was a death row groupie that would go see him and felt a bond for someone who would never get out of San Quentin except in a coffin!

Some of you may recognize my sister's suicde posting from earlier here on RP but I did not get into many details like today. I wanted to put some context so others here can understand and see if my premis of drugs abuse and alcohol is a real issue that many do not discuss possibly because they like to drink and don't see how it can affect them.

My sister always had a drinking problem had an explosive personality. She met her 2nd husband like her 3rd at a bar. This leads me to discuss that drugs, painkillers and alcohol are factors that many here don't see as a common denominator. She was a functioning alcholic. She had high school, some college completed and she adept to leave a job by telling an employer to F off and find another one through a temp agency in no time at all.

My sister's 3rd husband and her were both drunks and they were abusive. She hung herself the day after she was served with a divorce. She and I were estranged so we did not talk but she hung herself after her estranged 3rd husband had left to a 4th of July party she was not invited to since she, in the past, did not get along with her sister-in-law

My sister was seen by one of my cousins a few months before she killed herself and he said she was a mess but my sister excommunited me when she was challenged by me for elder abuse by having my mom add her to my mother's account. My mother was suffering early dementia and she did not remember taking her to the bank to add her. She stole a couple of thousand and when I confronted her about it she e-mailed me telling me to never talk to her again. She always bragged to family that she was at this or that bar and grill and she even posted that she was into AA and that beer was not addicting like wine or whisky which showed how out of touch she was.

http://obits.ocregister.com/obituaries/orangecounty/obituary.aspx?n=rose-loretta-conway&pid=175315548

By the way, my wife is a Canadian Native Indian. She is Cree and we both live in the City of Edmonton, Aberta, Canada.

Her family and her Indian Reserve/Reservation have a severe pandemic of unemployment (80%) drug abuse, suicide, gang shootings and crime and alcohol issues on her reserve that has resulted in many suicides and drug/alcohol related on the reserve that emulate the broken homes of inner city poverty and single mom's with a dad missing from the home but getting others pregnant in and around the same reserve and they are druggies or drunks themselves.

Fetal alcohol syndrome is common and those kids are not as smart as Forest Gump and getting high, getting pregnant or getting others pregnant too. This lost Generation on the Indian Reserve is in the news often but what is not said is WHITE people are just as easily in the same drug/alcohol hook but its not really discussed except at AA meetings and now I am talking about it here since substance abuse is not disucssed enough. My sister is one person who died but my Wife has at least 5 cousins dead by suicide due to a breakup and what helped them cope was drugs/alcohol to do the deed. My Wife's oldest sister tried to OD on pills over her druggie BF. My wife would walk in the cemetery on her Indian Reseve and she would say this person died by house fire, died by car accident with drunk driver, hit by drunk driver, died mysteriously, drive-by shooting, found dead from O.D., died by not getting medical attention of a pre-existing problem. The culture of neglect, drugs, alchohol, unemployment and crime which I feel can affect servicemembers too here.

I know here we are talking about the 25 or so vets who kill themselves monthly but I am just thinking that sobriety is the key to admitting you are addicted and seeking help.

Call Army One Source for help or advice 24/7. They do have funding for 24/7
[login to see]

ROSE LORETTA CONWAY's Obituary on Orange County Register

Read the Obituary and view the Guest Book, leave condolences or send flowers. | Conway, Rose Loretta 9/20/1965 - 7/4/2015 I am sad to announce the sudden passing of Rose Loretta Conway. Loretta was born in Los Angeles. She was raised in Whittier and La Palma, CA. Loretta

Response by SN Greg Wright made Oct 9 at 2016 1:23 AM

SN Greg Wright — Sun, 09 Oct 2016 01:23:42 -0400

I find it interesting that you classify the 'haves' as people that care about others, and the 'have-nots' as people that care about themselves. I make no judgement on this observation.

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Oct 9 at 2016 2:56 AM

Capt Seid Waddell — Sun, 09 Oct 2016 02:56:04 -0400

SSG Jessica Bautista, "Where, in the middle of heated debate, do you stop and think that this is where you should probably draw the line?"

I stop when it becomes personal.

Response by Maj John Bell made Oct 9 at 2016 5:25 AM

Maj John Bell — Sun, 09 Oct 2016 05:25:33 -0400

There is an old saw - you can say anything you want as long as you say it with love in your heart and a smile on your face.

I think there is an art to internet "debate" and disagreement.

With person "A" respectful disagreement may be just what they need. Nothing is quite as insulting as pity or patronizing agreement.

With person "B" it may be best to walk away.

With person "C" they may need you to stop arguing the point and to starting caring about "C".

Unfortunately we are 5 sense animals conducting conversation through the "keyhole" of typed words. I can't tell if the other person smiling, baring their teeth, or crying. I can't tell if their "voice' is tight or relaxed. etc. etc.

So... are you OK? By the way I like chocolate chip cookies with too many walnuts, thin and crisp around the edges, coffee for dipping, not milk.

Response by SSG Trust Palmer made Oct 9 at 2016 7:21 AM

SSG Trust Palmer — Sun, 09 Oct 2016 07:21:46 -0400

Good post!

I've asked a similar question before. There's a lot of depressed and angry people on here. You can tell by their temperament and how the engage on most post. Most times if this is the case, I exit the conversation. I've inboxed a few just to see if they were okay.

A lot of times, people like to troll. That's when I stop and ask myself... am I really that bored to go back and forth with this person? I try not to go back and forth with them. I speak my piece and drop the mic.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 9 at 2016 8:12 AM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 09 Oct 2016 08:12:31 -0400

I can say that a person considering suicide may not show signs that he/she is.

What drives a person to do so? Only that person knows and the issue may be real or imagined. The result is that death becomes the only escape in their mind.

Response by MSG Chris Allen made Oct 9 at 2016 9:01 AM

MSG Chris Allen — Sun, 09 Oct 2016 09:01:15 -0400

Thank you for sharing. I am the Suicide Prevention Program Manager for SCARNG.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Oct 9 at 2016 9:21 AM

SSG Warren Swan — Sun, 09 Oct 2016 09:21:34 -0400

First thing you as the leader must do is a check up from the neck up. If you are in a bad way and don't seek help yourself, your failing the Creed, and the troops under you. Stop with the HOOAH HOOAH bullshit. If your Soldiers see you getting help, by default, they know there is someone there who does feel the same as they do, and maybe they'll have enough trust to come to you and confide what their feeling. One particular sore spot with me are units sending troops to inpatient or mando outpatient care. Once that step is taken to get help, damn the CQ, Duty Driver, and bitch boy details. His/Her new MOS is Healing40P, and making their way back from the brink. I've also seen units take troops out of treatment just to fill a shift or take them out completely stating they're mission critical. I was mando outpatient and actually saw this happen to a Soldier who had some serous issues that needed to be worked on. She never came back, but she's doing good now. No unit is THAT mission critical where you should pull a troop out of rehab to get back to work over a Dr's medical assessment. So when I read about some of the initiatives the Army is doing to combat suicide, I think of the folks I was with in therapy, the crying, the arguing, fighting, and sheer amounts of anger everyone had, but was never resolved. But who the hell am I? SMA in his efforts to raise morale, made another PT uniform, you got the black socks, AND the ability to roll sleeves. Fucking Yay. In the time it took to do that, how many have taken their lives? We can't save everyone, but at least give them the tools and no fuck fuck games while they use those tools; we might save one more. "Know yourself and seek self improvement" is one of the leadership principles. I reckon some units never got the memo.

Response by Col Rebecca Lorraine made Oct 9 at 2016 9:55 AM

Col Rebecca Lorraine — Sun, 09 Oct 2016 09:55:41 -0400

This is my thoughts. Most people, me included, don't even know they are "depressed". It's a medical diagnosis that requires treatment. But like the alcoholic, they usually need to be told they are depressed and although life's events may bombard them with stress, they don't recognize what is happening. Asking for help is a weakness, no matter which side of that line you may be. You may lose hope, and it is a recovery process. To reboot the normal flow of serotonin and neurotransmitters, to have to help yourself. Not through self-medication, but talk, exercise, diet and recognizing that you are a grumpy old man or bitchy young woman cause life isn't going the way you expected. It can get worse into a spiral that needs the people around you, to see you need human contact. Someone that cares. The highest rates of suicide are the middle age white Protestant males. The hardest thing is to know when you just need to ask someone if they are okay. I am a beast and thank you for your elegant question. What exactly are you asking?

Response by Sgt Wayne Wood made Oct 9 at 2016 10:06 AM

Sgt Wayne Wood — Sun, 09 Oct 2016 10:06:19 -0400

Well, spoke last night about my personal experience with a "happy suicide", time to talk about the rebound suicides. A rebound suicide is one who makes the classic "cry for help" attempt, or possibly calls a hotline & gets talked down. They make all the arrangements for counselling or other help... and then successfully kill themselves. Shit happens...

Response by SSG Drew Cook made Oct 9 at 2016 10:39 AM

SSG Drew Cook — Sun, 09 Oct 2016 10:39:46 -0400

Indeed I've gotten personal a few times with folks who also get personal- usually the line had been crossed way before that. Typically I stop when I come to the realization that no matter how hard I try, the dog just won't let go of the frisbee.

Response by SSG Drew Cook made Oct 9 at 2016 10:42 AM

SSG Drew Cook — Sun, 09 Oct 2016 10:42:40 -0400

And again, we should embrace down-voting here on Rally Point. Everyone frowns upon getting negative internet points here for some reason, and considering that the viewpoints are becoming much more polarized throughout the entire spectrum of internet knowledge on both sides, I think most folks would be evened out and the trolls would easily make themselves known.

Response by LTC Joseph Fox made Oct 9 at 2016 11:11 AM

LTC Joseph Fox — Sun, 09 Oct 2016 11:11:04 -0400

With 20-22 vets committing suicide per day, this is a serious issue. As I grow older, I've come to realize that many of our brothers and sisters are frankly tired of trying to make their lives relevant in today's PC world, and end their struggle. Too many honorable vets are on the streets, homeless and hungry, with little succor afforded them. To those I say, I will help. I help through my localVFW and American Legion. I help by pushing vets issues with my representatives at the local, State and Federal levels. I help through comments on social media. And yes, I donate money. Since the day Of my commissioning, and entering active service, I've striven to do two things: Support and defend the Constitution, and take care of the soldiers under me so they may actively prosecute their assigned missions. I see no reason to ever stop.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 9 at 2016 12:19 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 09 Oct 2016 12:19:50 -0400

I try to stop before it gets personal or when it becomes obvious the two sides will not compromise. Whichever comes first is my walking away point.

Never push somebody so far they do something drastic.

Response by Sgt Wayne Wood made Oct 9 at 2016 2:21 PM

Sgt Wayne Wood — Sun, 09 Oct 2016 14:21:36 -0400

ok kiddies... we covered happy & rebound suicides... how about trigger, copy-cat, or spontaneous suicides. some person is going through life with normal ups and downs... just like you or me. then somethings happens, a trigger. reading about a suicide or murder or other shocking (to them) event. So, out of nowhere, they do the deed. WTF? NOBODY saw this coming. not even a suspicion. THEY MIGHT EVEN BE IN THERAPY and their therapist was CLUELESS! shit happens...

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 9 at 2016 2:58 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 09 Oct 2016 14:58:55 -0400

Yeah, I'll have you know I read this post before falling asleep last night and ended up waking up at 0330 this morning to eat a Halloween sugar cookie with orange frosting and sprinkles. I immediately went back to sleep after finishing the cookie. ;-)

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 9 at 2016 3:40 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 09 Oct 2016 15:40:57 -0400

I would like for you to explain your motivations here and the end-game. As a sufferer of depression and suicidual ideation, really feel offended. And making it about the haves and have nots is also not acceptable., here we have dichotomy. Here we all claim to be the same. A sociological experiment game is not appropriate in the least. SSG Jessica Bautista PO2 Ed C.

Response by SFC(P) Richard Warren made Oct 9 at 2016 4:22 PM

SFC(P) Richard Warren — Sun, 09 Oct 2016 16:22:07 -0400

I argue until I show that I am right. But, I generally only argue in the interest of helping or defending someone. I don't argue to put people down unless they start it.

I left that part of me behind in the deserts of Iraq.

Response by PVT Mark Brown made Oct 9 at 2016 7:59 PM

PVT Mark Brown — Sun, 09 Oct 2016 19:59:51 -0400

You talk about suicide and depression. I openly admit to abusing drugs and alcohol from while in the Army (1968) until I had finally had enough. Like they say, I was tired of being sick and tired. LIttle did I know the answer was a matter of going to AA and NA, going to 2 or 3 meeting everyday, get a sponsor, read The Big Book, do the steps to the best of my ability. I did all and continued to do all that.....For a period of time in mid 1990 I had an itch I just couldn't scratch. I was at a total loss as to why....I talk about my feelings, met a VN vet in AA who had group meetings at his home, and on and on and on. Depression, I did not have any idea what depression was or that I was clinically depressed. My addiction turn from drugs and alcohol to sex and food. (Only I did not see the addiction.) My life was still spinning out of control. I owned my own business which I ended up losing. Then in the year 2000 or so I made a pretty drastic suicide attempt and nearly succeeded except God wasn't ready for me yet and told me go back and try something different. I have many Vietnam Vets in my life and each and every one of them told me go to the VA. Finally, I put a call into mental health and they agreed to see that same afternoon. I spoke with a psychiatrist for for a couple hours. At the end of our meeting the Doc diagnosed my as being severely depressed, suffering from 100% service connected PTSD and just was a good thing I did not push my luck any further as it may have been too late. The true reason I did not follow through with suicide are several, the most important be that if I were to die at my own hand I would not get to heaven. By the way, I was still praying to Jesus on a regular basis, going to church, meeting with men from church, you name it. My new VA Doc wanted to commit me to the MH ward right there on the spot. I fought him on that and did not check in. He did give me a handful of drugs, got me to several meetings at the hospital and the VA Center. Slowly I started coming around but by that time it was too late to salvage much in terms of material assets. My home was gone, my business was gone, my wife was almost gone, I still played with suicide idealization and fantixation, I seem to be fixated on the idea because of all the damage I blamed on myself. Things have changed considerably over the past 15 or so years but I must remain diligent to protect myself. Depression is sneaky shit, I can never see it coming. I have a large collection of fire arms and I have never once fantasized about using a firearm My fantasy has always revolved around making it appear to be an accident. Believe me I have several ideas. My wife is nearly invalid and I can't do that to her, she has supported my all my life and she deserves more than having me abandon her this late in life. We are both nearly 70. We are on a very small fixed VA and SS income that gives up for and not much. Our home is falling apart around us, appliance are breaking down and we have no cash to do anything about any it. We cannot get credit, thanks to my stupidity.
This is a very long ass answer to a very short question. I hope this gets some attention to encourage my brothers and sisters, don't give up - try something - anything, until you find something that works. I apologize for the length of this message.

Response by SFC Christopher Perry made Oct 10 at 2016 9:43 AM

SFC Christopher Perry — Mon, 10 Oct 2016 09:43:01 -0400

I cannot set a finger directly on that line. For me I can see a shift in the conversation that tells me things have gone too far. This does not mean I end the conversation or walk away. It simply means I know I have to change gears. Normally, it means I will ask a question in an attempt to get a feel for where things went wrong.

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made Oct 12 at 2016 3:31 PM

Cpl Justin Goolsby — Wed, 12 Oct 2016 15:31:08 -0400

Well the way I've been told is to Recognize the Signs of distress. I have a fairly good feel for the people in my friends list that I have fairly heated debates. I know which ones are liberals and which ones are conservatives. I know their demeanors and personalities, so if I see something amiss, I'll typically initiate contact. It's not often I see someone's personality suddenly shift during a heated debate, but I typically might see a facebook post that sticks out from their usual postings.

Now I do have lines I won't cross. If you and I are having a conversation, then that's the only people we are talking about. I get severely agitated when someone tries to use my family or even my children against me to sway their argument. My family is off limits unless we were having a debate on family. I hate hearing things along the line "I can't imagine someone with daughters would think the way you do" among other things.

But typically if I'm in a debate, I will continue debating until one of us folds. If I feel like I'm arguing a brick wall, then I'll fold. But otherwise, I will continue debating until I have broken through the defenses or we've called it quits.

Response by CPO Amb. Terry Earthwind Nichols made Oct 31 at 2016 10:53 AM

CPO Amb. Terry Earthwind Nichols — Mon, 31 Oct 2016 10:53:54 -0400

There is no line when you are saving a life.
Get the person to talk to us. We are in 12 countries and speak 7 languages.
http://evolutionaryhealer.com/the-cr-process/
Send them to me first here on RP or my Facebook page to PM me 24/7.
https://www.facebook.com/earthwindhealer

The CR Process | Evolutionary Healer

“We are born with an already established personality. As we age, we become witness to various stimuli that changes the way we look at the world and how we will act and react in it.”

Response by PO3 Charles Relf made Dec 27 at 2016 9:34 AM

PO3 Charles Relf — Tue, 27 Dec 2016 09:34:20 -0500

In my experience those who have little are usually the ones who would help another. Not the ones who have lots. In a discussion, or debate you stop before it goes off topic. Bringing in backgrounds or experience can be the tipping point. When used as a reason for xxxxx belief because you are xxxx. Crosses the line unless there is balance by acknowledging the other background with similar verbiage. Once it becomes personal attack the discussion is lost.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 29 at 2016 7:11 AM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 29 Dec 2016 07:11:03 -0500

SSG Jessica Bautista you asked for a knee-jerk reaction, and mine is that I think there is something seriously wrong with someone who starts or encourages a fight between two different factions/people so they can be entertained. (i.e. "I do have a little fun poking at controversy") It's one thing to pick a fight because you like to fight, and quite another to get two people to fight so you can sit back, eat popcorn, and be entertained.

Haves and Have-nots? Yesterday Thomas Sowell published notice that he is retiring. (He's a writer and commentator, and if you don't know of him, your education is sorely lacking.) A black man born in 1930, he grew up in Harlem, and lived in homes without electricity or running hot water. That's a Have-Not. Today's have-nots have color TVs, cell phones, cars, food stamps, welfare checks, subsidized everything. We need a better description, perhaps "The Jones'" and "Those wanting to keep up with the Jones'."

I prefer not to get personal, but brother in arms or not, if you get personal with me, I'll fight back. Maybe you'll know better than to get personal next time.

And your final topic was depression and suicide. Mental health has been ignored by most people and nearly all politicians. One group thinks everyone ought to pull up their Big Girl Panties, and the other thinks that firearms cause mental illness, and they aren't going to do anything about it until they get the guns first.

Having given my knee-jerk reaction, the solution to two of these problems is NOT government. You can spend as much money as you want, but you can't buy caring. And caring is probably the answer to the other two as well. Maybe everyone needs to spend a little more time caring about someone else, and a little less time looking for their next entertainment fix.

Response by SGT Linda Moss made Dec 29 at 2016 3:12 PM

SGT Linda Moss — Thu, 29 Dec 2016 15:12:52 -0500

when it becomes more then a debate and becomes a way of putting down and belittling someone. When it is not longer about the actual thing you are debating and about the attacking the person.As to suicide a person who commits suicide does not really want to die. They just want the pain to stop. The not feeling good enough , guilty , shame and think other would be better off with out them. I am talking about people with the depression or other mental health illness that rob you of everything good in life. As female veteran with 26 year in law enforcement , 4 patrol 22 dispatch I felt that I had to be tougher then men. I never wanted that "just a emotional female" label. Another thing is I did not feel I had earned having PTSD. I never served overseas. I still do not feel that comfortable saying I am veteran since I was never active duty. I had 20 year in national guard

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 29 at 2016 3:49 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 29 Dec 2016 15:49:53 -0500

I suffer from depression and just recently wanted to end it. In fact it was December 23, 2016. Some things had happened and I found myself in my room crying thinking of the 9mm in my chest of drawers calling my name. What saved me was my son calling me on the phone telling me he was on his way over. It was not the first time I have had these thoughts and I know it won't be the last time either.

With that being said, I cannot take depression as a lighthearted subject. Yes, I am in therapy and yes I am taking medicine. Is it enough, most likely not. A lot of times when a people gets to the point when suicide is their only option left, it's because they feel trapped and there is no other way out for themselves.

It takes a warrior to fight the battles inside themselves and stay alive, but it also takes a warrior to end their demons that are fighting within themselves too.

Never ever take depression for granted, if you feel if someone is reaching out, don't be afraid to ask how they are doing. You never know, you starting the conversation with them just might save their life.

Response by SPC Byron Skinner made Dec 30 at 2016 5:30 PM

SPC Byron Skinner — Fri, 30 Dec 2016 17:30:06 -0500

Sp4 Byron Skinner. I'm not sure suicide is a debate. I have known guys who took that fatal option and each case was for a different reason. Among reasons I guess you would have to say a domestic relationship that went sour and ended, pain that can't be reasonability controlled, a soldier who comes home with a catastrophic wound and his family takes one look at him/her and says don't come home, untreated or mis treated depression, just losing the will to live. Yes I do believe and I'm sure seen a case of a soldiers who duct couldn't see an future that he would find acceptable, goes to sleep and never wakes. The soldier in particular I have in mind was a Medic with the 4ID in Nam spinal injury, lost leg, an arm no longer function and blind in one eye. He was in the bed next to me on "K" Ward. He just went to bed one night and about 0230 I heard the curtain pull around, a Doctor came on the ward, they brought the cart, I heard the zipper on the bag and the cart left. Later that morning when I got up, his bed was made, his stuff gone and his area looked like nobody had been their. The conclusion I came to 50 years ago is that suicide is an option and the only one you have control over.

Response by PO3 John Wagner made Jan 1 at 2017 12:20 AM

PO3 John Wagner — Sun, 01 Jan 2017 00:20:05 -0500

I was depressed for over 30 years... I am glad I didn't do the most selfish thing any human being can do.

( admission ......I tried. I tried hard..I had a liberal media studies roommate in college...he let me lay there for three days before he thought he might mention it to anyone.. the bedsores took 20 years to heal...yes I left a note..... it wasn't his decision to make either ... however, I wonder what he will need to answer for when his time comes..I don't care..but it interests me what kind of a karmic shithole he excavated for himself ...with extreme prejudice?)

When I finally came out of it I recalled a line from the Sixth sense when Ben Frieken shoots Bruce Willis.
"I was afraid!"
I'm not scared anymore.......PTSD does kill and the collateral damage is enormous.
I had little or no hope on and off......forever.. so it seemed.

As much as one might think they would mourn all the lost time...the joy of being OK and in the moment and feeling the joy of being alive and knowing you are a part of the world is so wonderful that the only time I spend on that time is attempting to bring a lift and light in the lives of others... They always say it's never too late to start......THEY are right!

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Feb 15 at 2018 5:35 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Thu, 15 Feb 2018 17:35:01 -0500

I like cookies! I try to read and think before answering on line here. In person (I have PTSD and major Depression), when I see/feel I'm getting angry- I stop for a minute in my head to see if it's overkill. I will stop the conversation, and even go back and apologize afterward. I respect the same in my friends- when they start going off _I back off, give them some time, then ask if their are ok, and what can I do to help. It's a minefield 24-7. And NO you can not HAVE my damn cookies Lady!!! LOL