In The Veteran Community, Jealousy Is The New “Blue Falcon”

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 08:55:24 -0400

I love the Havoc Journal. They are one of the few entities that will call out soldiers and vets. They are soldiers and vets themselves. Sometimes it has to be done.

But I can say that even in Rallypoint I have seen this occur. We have so many internet bad asses they are quick to say how they were so much better. I know I am a LT but just about every time I have been one upped or called out I have been in the military longer than the other person trying to call me out. I am not saying that I not subject to be questioned but the next time a guy tries to say anything when they never deployed or were combat arms about how should an infantry officer perform in combat I just may go nuclear.

Now, I appreciate many vets here. I hold Vietnam Veterans in a category far above my own. In addition I hold members of the Special Operations Community also in high regard. The one time I was in the company of one of the Merrill's Marauders you would have thought I was a pauper in the presence of a King. To me I will never be able to achieve their greatness because I have such great respect for them.

Now in the veteran community we are seeing how everyone is special. Don’t you dare say that a National Guard Truck Driver is anything less than the Rangers at Point De’Hoc. No one is saying that anyone is less but we have some vets that are greater than others. We do it in the military. Some guys get Medals of Honor, Silver Stars, and Service Crosses. I have done some wild stuff but I will be first to say it wasn’t on par with soldiers like SFC Paul Ray Smith. Sorry, but some of us aren't that special. I will tell you that there are many of you that have done more than me and there are some that haven't. That is fine. I am not in competition with any other here. But when a "Vet" judges another vet for a comment it blows my mind. I have seen a soldier with no combat experience that was Combat Service Support tell an Infantryman with multiple deployments that he doesn't know what he is talking about and that he wouldn't be a good leader. The guy calling out him out was a lower enlisted soldier about less years in than fingers on one hand. Or guys that tell a Special Forces soldier that he doesn’t understand what he is talking about when it comes to war in Afghanistan.

If you have to prove that you are better than another Vet or try to one up one then you might be the new "Blue Falcon." The worst are the ones that try to one up another by making something up. The ones that when you tell them you were in Iraq for the invasion they will tell you that the movie "Jar Head" was based on their experience in Desert Storm. But hey, if that is what gets you by then you deserve the Blue Falcon Medal with a “CawCaw” device for badassery.

Response by Sgt David G Duchesneau made Jun 10 at 2015 8:57 AM

Sgt David G Duchesneau — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 08:57:56 -0400

Is it really?

Response by SrA Johnathan Kropke made Jun 10 at 2015 9:07 AM

SrA Johnathan Kropke — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 09:07:54 -0400

Lt, great post. I hope I do not do this, and if I ever did I would hope anybody would correct me, but I have seen it when one veteran will disrespect another and it sounds like total BS when the one tries to say he did something and it just doesn't sound right. I have heard this a few times when a soldier talks a lot about combat, but then another, who I saw deploy, doesn't say a word, it gets a little sketchy.

If you are retired, active, reserve, or other for the military I think we should all retain the same respect as if we were talking to people way above our pay grade. I know I have not been in the military long enough to have much of a weighted opinion on these matters as well as I am still an E3, but I still think that mindset of "I am better than that guy" shouldn't take place with military personnel.

I believe you are 100% right with everything you said.

Response by SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. made Jun 10 at 2015 9:20 AM

SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 09:20:43 -0400

I would not put Vietnam Vets in a category above your own. We went where we were told and did what we were told to do. Just like soldiers since the Hoplites. I have watched Resprero, Korengal and Battleground Afghanistan. Vietnam had nothing on these places.

IMHO Afgan and Iraq vets are in a class above me.

Response by 1LT William Clardy made Jun 10 at 2015 9:23 AM

1LT William Clardy — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 09:23:24 -0400

CPT Private RallyPoint Member, you are not just "a LT", you are *THAT* LT. You are indeed special.

I salute you...

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Jun 10 at 2015 9:27 AM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 09:27:18 -0400

I think you raise some very valid points Eric. Thanks for posting this article. I think we all at some point have tried to one up or prove we were as good or better than another relevant to our status as SMs and vets. I know there are many NG/Reserve vs. AD discussions where this has relevance. There are also some posts about who should be called a veteran that I have personally participated in and have found my attitude adjusted by. IMHO, A lot has to do with context as well as attitude.

You can't go into a discussion here or anywhere with a closed mind because then everyone thinks you're grinding your agenda axe. You have to be willing to listen to the points of view of others otherwise you'll find your self ostracized, somewhat intentionally, because people don't want to hear "I'm right and you're wrong" for having an opinion.

You have to have a clue about what you're discussing and what it relates to. Yes we've all misfired in a post, gotten facts wrong or not understood exactly how or why the question was asked the way it was. A responsible participant will get clarification and interact with others to get into the context of the discussion and how it relates to them.

RallPoint is a team building exercise, like others we've all been through. No one should think they are better than another person and post content to that affect as it discourages meaningful conversation. Technically it would be considered cyber bullying and I'd venture to say we don't want that here because there is plenty of it elsewhere.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 10 at 2015 10:14 AM

CPO Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 10:14:44 -0400

BOOM!!! Great post brother!

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 10 at 2015 10:37 AM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 10:37:19 -0400

After reading the Article, wow. Why would Veterans be entitled to money made by other Veterans? Are people really complaining that they don't get some of the Range 15 movie's money?
That is crazy.

And other than people trying to get influence points, I don't really see too much one-up-man-ship here.

Response by SSG Sean Thoman made Jun 10 at 2015 11:40 AM

SSG Sean Thoman — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 11:40:26 -0400

You are lucky you did not have a Major Soza editing your writing and spelling. But to your point, like the Billy Ray Cyrus song goes; All gave some, some gave all. In my view, and especially dealing with a over-rated PAC Clerk VSO derogatory comments and who served at Camp Humphrey Korea while I was on the DMZ, while all service is equally honorable as a team, but some on the team contributed more; and do not always flaunt it or have an "I Love Me Wall" for self importance. Just my viewpoint as a GRUNT who was not the best Soldier, but I loved it while I was able too. Oh, and if you were a Cav Scout....well....

Response by PO1 John Miller made Jun 10 at 2015 1:10 PM

PO1 John Miller — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 13:10:39 -0400

CPT Private RallyPoint Member:

Eric, I wouldn't call these people Blue Falcons, but I would call them douche bags (along with a few other choice terms)!

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Jun 10 at 2015 4:26 PM

SFC Mark Merino — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 16:26:36 -0400

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jun 10 at 2015 4:34 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 16:34:47 -0400

There are some members of the Veteran Community who will ridicule other veterans by taking a small bit of information and extrapolate it into a big assumption. An example is my son never got PTSD, so why should you get it?

The others thrive on self importance and I assume this is their only shtick in life. They will bend the truth and make acrimonious statements against other veterans, so they sound like it is appropriate to breath rarified air.

Then we have the inter-war veterans who behave in a manner of an old sage who knows how to compare wars and makes boastful statements their war was more vicious and important.

The one aspect many narcissistic veterans fail to see is, we all bleed red.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 10 at 2015 5:33 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 17:33:06 -0400

National Guard truck drivers. What's the quickest way to have your supplies "lost" in transit? Piss off an 88M.
Right on, Sir. There is a trend of one-upping. Most veterans, I think, who chip in here, really want to share their experiences. They are still professional, and really, I rarely pay attention to what their status is. The vicious and destructive members are the ones I prefer to check. Surprisingly, many of them are current SMs, and not veterans at all!

Response by SPC Ryan D. made Jun 10 at 2015 7:39 PM

SPC Ryan D. — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 19:39:13 -0400

Chuck Norris, Jackie Chan, and I single handedly ended WW2 all while drinking PBR and polishing our medals for the most bacon consumed in one sitting. ;)

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 10 at 2015 8:03 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 20:03:09 -0400

While all veterans to deserve thanks, respect and support by the community, there are some people, veterans and non-veterans alike who feel entitled due to some status. All human beings deserve respect but we don't simply get something free for what others have to work for to get. Success comes from hard work. However, some veterans who are struggling due to PTSD or other issue do deserves benefits (ie medical care, therapy, monetary benefits) to help them become contributing members of society. Even non-veterans who have medical/psychological issues as well should be helped as well. The thing that is wrong is the selfish spoiled gimme gimme attitude. I see it far too often among teenagers I teach. Yes provide the support to help such people get on their feet but the good counselor/social worker/teacher should teach them to fish, not give them fish.

One good way to elevate your life, help other veterans, even if you are disabled yourself, you';ll feel better about yourself, the networking can help lead to jobs. Don't be the one that sits around feeling sorry for yourself. Soldiers help other soldiers, veterans help other veterans. That's one of the values we learn in the military that helps not the the team but yourself as well.

Response by SFC Collin McMillion made Jun 11 at 2015 12:10 AM

SFC Collin McMillion — Thu, 11 Jun 2015 00:10:13 -0400

As former SF in Nam for a lot longer than a regular tour, I don't feel we were better or worse than any soldier, just a wrong war at a wrong time. Sure a lot of people forgot we even exsit, but probably none try harder to forget than Viet Nam vets themselves.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Jun 11 at 2015 3:54 AM

PO1 John Miller — Thu, 11 Jun 2015 03:54:21 -0400

CPT Private RallyPoint Member, are you sure you're not LT Dick from Grunt Style? :)

Response by PVT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 11 at 2015 8:05 AM

PVT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 Jun 2015 08:05:15 -0400

THE CAWCAW DEVICE

Response by MSgt Manuel Diaz made Jun 11 at 2015 11:18 AM

MSgt Manuel Diaz — Thu, 11 Jun 2015 11:18:15 -0400

Well it goes back to third grade when pissing outside was still a non felonious freedom and we would see who could go farther or longer... providing no tadletale girls were around

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2015 8:49 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 01 Sep 2015 08:49:23 -0400

Eric-One thing I enjoy (and sometimes fear) about RP is the fact that we can discuss issues across not only lines of "rank", but service as well. I have gained a lot of knowledge from this, and always try to keep in mind the experience and background of those commenting. As some others have responded-I for one, agree with your point. That said, and again, respectful of others experiences and background vs. my own, being an infantryman with more than a decade of experience may make someone more qualified to an opinion on the role of infantry than a sailor with twenty years of experience...but it shouldn't be assumed that there are not subjects in which that extra decade of life in the service may add value. Also, and I've had to be mindful of this myself, someone posting under E-3 rank who served in Vietnam has also lived significantly longer than I, and that in and of itself demands respect. I think it all comes down to respect, because at the end of the day, we are none of us "ashamed" of being what we were...but we should always keep in mind what we were not as well.

Response by SPC Ryan Burger made Sep 1 at 2015 12:20 PM

SPC Ryan Burger — Tue, 01 Sep 2015 12:20:23 -0400

Perhaps not related. But, since I have been out I have encountered veterans who still think they out rank other veterans in the civilian world. You can almost seen it, couple of veterans standing around talking, question comes out about what people did while serving, what branch ( leads to some jesting), and at some point rank comes up. Suddenly that guy who got out as an E6 realizes he's the highest ranking and you see him puff up alittle, in some cases he kinda takes over the BBQ almost giving orders.
Maybe its just a California thing I have encountered, people here are alittle wonky anyways looking for a reason to think they are better than anyone.
I do wish I had some veteran friends in the area, I seem top be more comfortable talking to veterans ( even from the navy).

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 8 at 2019 8:08 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Feb 2019 20:08:09 -0500

I can agree with most of your statement. However I do take umbrage at the slight to the national guard truck driver. 88M was one of the most dangerous jobs in Iraq. Old equipment, lightly armored, no V shaped halls, the only support they had was organic and they were on the real front line of OIF everyday. I would argue they had a more dangerous job then a lot of combat arms soldiers.