In today's Military, can you survive an Article 15 or Letter of Reprimand and still have a successful career?

2015-07-27T09:52:18-04:00

There was a time when having at least one Article 15 or Letter of reprimand was considered a right of passage. With today's Military draw down status and the crack down on toxic leadership and increased overall standards, can you survive a lapse of judgement?

Response by SCPO Joshua I made Jul 27 at 2015 9:54 AM

2015-07-27T09:54:35-04:00

I did - 19 years ago. Today? Career ending event.

Response by SFC Stephen King made Jul 27 at 2015 10:11 AM

2015-07-27T10:11:12-04:00

It depends on the type of Article 15.

http://www.wood.army.mil/sja/TDS/article_15_fact_sheet.htm

Response by MSgt Jim Wolverton made Jul 27 at 2015 10:49 AM

2015-07-27T10:49:06-04:00

In the Air Force you are gone after an Art 15

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 27 at 2015 10:52 AM

2015-07-27T10:52:46-04:00

It's better PT a soldier worth saving than making a paper trail. In the Woodland Camo days, the Article 15 didn't matter much, but you only did it if you wanted to get someone out. Now it seems to cozy to PT someone until they've learned their lesson.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 27 at 2015 11:20 AM

2015-07-27T11:20:37-04:00

There was a FAQ document on MilSuite that described the Post Board Screen as being able to look in the restricted file and subsequently, possible remove people from the promotion list. That document has since been removed.
I read it last week before its removal. My opinion: if you have something in your restricted file that you wouldn't want to discuss with your grandma over tea then you might be in trouble.

Response by COL Jean (John) F. B. made Jul 27 at 2015 11:25 AM

2015-07-27T11:25:25-04:00

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member - The sad truth is that, in today's zero-defect military, the chances of surviving "bad paper" are slim. Obviously, whether you can have a "successful career" after getting an Art 15 or LOR depends on (1) a person's definition of a successful career and (2) when the Art 15/LOR was received. If a COL or CSM gets a LOR, for example, they have already had a successful career (in most folks' eyes). If a SGT (E-5) gets an Art 15/LOR and has a desire to serve 20 years or more and become a SGM, it is probably not going to happen.

With all the draw-downs and other personnel actions to "right-size" the military, folks with any derogatory information in their personnel files are at great risk of elimination.

Response by CMSgt Mark Schubert made Jul 27 at 2015 11:40 AM

2015-07-27T11:40:25-04:00

LOR, yes - Simple answer for Article 15 is no. It takes a good leader to make these kinds of decisions! There were two people in particular I thought about processing for Article 15 and I'm glad I didn't. I'm talking about assault (fight in a bar) and AWOL (missing formation) - both of these guys are still in the AF and flourishing! There are others that did get an Article 15 (for the same or lesser offense) and are no longer in service.

Response by SGT Bryon Sergent made Jul 27 at 2015 11:43 AM

2015-07-27T11:43:55-04:00

We will see!

Response by SFC Joseph Bosley made Jul 27 at 2015 3:21 PM

2015-07-27T15:21:48-04:00

I would have to say that it all depends on what level it is. Anything that stays with local command like a LOR or summarized AR-15 might be recoverable, anything that can go with you to a new command definitely not. Even when i was in it was becoming a zero defect zero tolerance atmosphere. Too bad really some of the best lessons are learned from making a mistake.

Response by SGT Jet West made Jul 28 at 2015 1:21 PM

2015-07-28T13:21:06-04:00

The customs and courtesies that comprise military traditions will be discarded rather quickly as the military downsizes and chases "corporate efficiencies." A negative review or disciplinary action are terminable offenses in the corporate world.

Response by LTC Thelma Carnes Rowe made Jul 28 at 2015 2:34 PM

2015-07-28T14:34:38-04:00

From experience, a LOR can and will end your career. I was sexually harassed by a commanding general officer (BG). I informed the next MG in the command who was a female. I was afraid of retaliation and wasn’t sure what to do, therefore I requested the assistance of from the next general in my chain of command who happen to be a female. She didn’t do anything but refer me to her EO counselor who did nothing. During the same time I received a referred OER. I am a MAJ and been in over 20 years, and have never received anything derogatory in my record ever. I requested a commanders inquiry, which was forward to the next level, the female MG whom I complaint to about the BG sexual harassment. When in 3 months the commander inquiry turned into an AR 15-6 which stated I falsified my OER. I requested meeting with my rater and senior rater to discuss the OER and the fact that I had a profile and the box on my OER was not checked. I checked the box and forward to my rater, requesting a meeting. I never signed my OER, just reviewed, check profile block, and requested meeting. Once I was denied a meeting, I forward to BG, requesting commanders inquiry and who was my commanding general and the one who sexually harassed me. From the AR 15-6, the OER remained valid and filed, I was accused of falsifying my OER, then two months later given a General Officers Memo Of Reprimand (GOMOR). Then two months later I was given a notice of Involuntary Separation. I appealed the OER, which I was given full relief and is being corrected in my file. I am in the middle of appealing my GOMOR. In the mean-time I have been passed over for promotions and pending separation, as my military career is ending due to retaliation for complaining of sexual harassment against my commanding general officer. Both BG and MG has mover to higher positions elsewhere, while I am still pending separation. A soldier can’t sue the military and therefore is stuck with whatever given, be it right or wrong. Funny, the Army teaches you to speak up and say something, however, once you do, your career is over. Where is the justice!

Response by GySgt Joseph Jay Johnston made Jul 28 at 2015 2:43 PM

2015-07-28T14:43:03-04:00

If you call remaining in your same rank forever,Iwould say yes.unforunately that wont happen what will happen is a R.I.F.
In the old corp which I was part of and still am,It depended on your combat record as to punishment
and your MOS.In todays Corp Forget it.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 28 at 2015 4:48 PM

2015-07-28T16:48:31-04:00

Of course you can they are rehabilitative in nature...but there is a difference in an E-2 being rehabilitated and a E-7 or O-3.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 28 at 2015 6:47 PM

2015-07-28T18:47:11-04:00

You weren't one of the guys if you didn't get something. I got mine (Article 15), plus pulled off promotion list, restricted to base for 30 days (another story of how I got around that), and $25.00 fine. I was making 90$ a month back in 1964. All for a curfew violation. A bit over kill I would say., I don't think the CO liked me (feeling was mutual)

Response by MAJ Javier Rivera made Jul 28 at 2015 7:30 PM

2015-07-28T19:30:04-04:00

Not at all. Even the restricted files are been scrutinized for the current separation boards.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 28 at 2015 7:55 PM

2015-07-28T19:55:00-04:00

I have talked to a few Senior NCO's that have told me they would not have been able to make it under todays standard. With the current push to kick people out an LOR will adversely affect their carrier (special duties, TDY etc.) and a Article 15 will put you on the chopping block.

Response by MAJ Thomas Person made Jul 28 at 2015 8:32 PM

2015-07-28T20:32:35-04:00

ARTICLE 15? You might as well go thru a General Court. I think it will impale someone. From some of my just retiring bros I understand you cannot survive the 3 B's as my SGM used to call it. The greatest killer of infantrymen careers. Belts, Booze, and broads. (sorry for those who will never understand the mind of a 11 when I say broad). SGM was a character. The Army I am seeing from the outside is becoming flawed. The Regiment as we used to say is now something that offends certain types.

Response by PO1 Rick Serviss made Jul 28 at 2015 8:56 PM

2015-07-28T20:56:20-04:00

It was never considered a right of passage to me. Back in the day, at least I didn't try to get an Article 15 but things were more forgiving than they are now. I think an Article 15 in today's military could be career ending.

Response by MCPO Shelley Huntington made Jul 28 at 2015 8:57 PM

2015-07-28T20:57:21-04:00

The serious problem with the zero defect military....is the lies that then happen to cover up. Being in leadership and not getting to the truth, specially if it concerns lives is worse than the infraction committed. The zero defect world is frightening.

Response by SFC Ricky Bond made Jul 28 at 2015 10:05 PM

2015-07-28T22:05:49-04:00

I was on the fast track, made E-7 in 8 years. Then I went into recruiting. I was relieved from duty, not for any wrong doing but because I didn't enlist enough recruits. I was at 110 percent enlistments but did not meet my "mission box" criteria and as a result I was relieved. Only job I have ever been fired from as a soldier or a civilian. I stayed in for another 9 years but was never considered for another promotion and eventually gave up and got out after 17 years.

Response by CMSgt Mark Lewis made Jul 28 at 2015 10:18 PM

2015-07-28T22:18:00-04:00

Based on my experience in the USAF, an LOR and Article 15 for an enlisted person is considered rehabilitative. However, in today's climate the Article 15 will most likely end the person's career. That will certainly be a discriminator when looking at "quality force" indicators when force reductions are being implemented. LORs typically will not end an enlisted persons career unless they have numerous ones in a "Unfavorable Information File." For officers, both LORs and Article 15s are a definite career ender.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 28 at 2015 10:19 PM

2015-07-28T22:19:25-04:00

NO.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 28 at 2015 10:20 PM

2015-07-28T22:20:04-04:00

NO.

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 28 at 2015 10:38 PM

2015-07-28T22:38:33-04:00

I agree in saying it depends on what level. When I was in AIT I was sexually assaulted by a green suit instructor, I came forth with what she did & she received a letter of reprimand.
When my husband was in Bragg his CDR received a GOMOR.
In both situations I was told by TDS that they were career stoppers.

Response by SCPO Anthony Wingers made Jul 29 at 2015 12:27 AM

2015-07-29T00:27:49-04:00

Frankly I think the crackdown on so called toxic leadership has more to do with purging the military of warriors not likely to respond well to an Obama order to shoot at Americans than it does with any proper reason for relief from command. I knew some of the folks they fired and saw how they did it and was not impressed. Today you have to be Politicaly Correct first, and a Soldier, Sailor, Marine or Airman second. If you do not believe that Gays and transgenders promote good order and discipline, of course you must be purged. If you believe that Christians should be able to pray in the Name of Jesus, you must be purged. If you are a normal sailor and go out and get loaded on liberty, you must be purged. Standards have been lowered, not increased. The things they have increased are meaningless doctrine and shitty little regulations that really have nothing at all to do with warfighting.
I served from 64 to 91, 18 years surface craft and 8 years fast attack submarines. From my time on the tip of the spear, I can tell you that the only captain I had who would survive in today's PC Navy is the one I had absolutely no respect for. The captains Surface and subsurface that I respected and would have followed into a flaming compartment would not last a week in today's military. The Political suck ups that are being promoted to flag rank, and the back stabbing enlisted types being promoted to CMC these days are absolutely a disgrace to the Naval fighting force. You train as you will fight. Sweat in training or bleed in combat. The flip side of that is Work hard, Play hard. You cannot drive men to near exhaustion for weeks and months on end and then expect them not to blow off steam on the beach. Alcohol related incidents my ass. As an E6 in B school we used to go to lunch and have a few beers with it, then go back to class and get to work. Today, that would get you a nice captains mast and ruin your career. The idea of Breathalyzers on the quarter deck is one for the books. What idiot thought that one up? What panty waisted individuals thought that it was a good idea? These are Warriors and Men and Women, not a bunch of high school kids. Yes, we had the occasional captains mast back in the day, though you really had to work to get one. You could get past that and roll on. Hell, I had an article 15 that went to special courts martial for assault. I was found not guilty, but I am betting that back then I could have survived even that. I would have been busted, but later on it would have been quietly expunged from the record, if I straightened up.
I would not serve in todays military under this traitorous individual for all the tea in china. Your mileage may vary.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Jul 29 at 2015 1:05 AM

2015-07-29T01:05:31-04:00

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member I think it depends on your rank. If you are senior NCO or officer, you are through when your next board comes around. The Army is looking for reasons to move your file to the "do not consider, promote, retain." A very junior Soldier, one time, maybe. The type of ART 15, offense, and whether the letter was locally filed or not, also matter. A GOMOR for a leader is a killer, and it should be.

In 1987, when I was 1LT, and the Army was 800k, there were LTs in my Squadron, promoted to Capatin with 1 or more DUIs.... That changed dramatically during the early 90s drawdown... Just like this era...

Response by PO1 Howard Doll made Jul 29 at 2015 2:09 AM

2015-07-29T02:09:16-04:00

No way! This ain't the real military anymore. It is an effin' corporation. I am glad I served when I did. I will have none of it now. Sorry.

Response by SPC Joseph Montgomery made Jul 29 at 2015 3:35 AM

2015-07-29T03:35:28-04:00

The simple answer is no. When I was I. (79-85) it was a career ended along with failure to be on the promotion list after your initial enlistment. I was ADA and I was considered mission essential and thus not boarded. The art.15 and lack of being g boarded for e-5 meant that when reenlistment time came I was left with either PDA or ETS. I choose ETS and worked on electrical and electronics for the LCAC and eventually became a teacher. Being a military brat the army I went in wasn't more than camping out and today's army is 100x's worse. Just like after Vietnam, the mi!itary is getting rid of not dead weight but the actual costs and movers. They are getting rid of the institutional memory of what it means to train and fight on a war footing. Most who are rifted and let go out of the military will land on their feet and a majority will end up coming back as trainers of the trainers. Why? Because po!iticians and general officers are stupid when it comes to what's needed. They think that advanced systems are the way except that they forget when you release all your warriors what you end up with is pansies and politically correct, limp wristed idiots who will shit themselves when the shit really hits the fan again. History repeats itself again. Think post WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam and the end of the cold war. Now it's happening again because of a lack of balls and leadership. Mostly leadership!

Response by Sgt Jerami Ballard made Jul 29 at 2015 4:06 AM

2015-07-29T04:06:18-04:00

In today's Marine Corps, a 6105 will make sure you have some explaining to do to the Career Counselor, an NJP is an automatic disbar from re-enlistment, same with Body Composition Program.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Jul 29 at 2015 9:17 AM

2015-07-29T09:17:08-04:00

Those days are gone for now. I think based on what's being used to push troops out, even a local action can have a severe consequence on your career. The Army's using every tool available to push troops out, and this in my opinion could be what separates one troop from staying in and another going home. Nothing and no ones safe anymore.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 29 at 2015 11:56 AM

2015-07-29T11:56:52-04:00

Chesty Puller, one of the Marine Corps most decorated, colorful, and respected leader, once said that if you want the best fighting Marines, go to the Brig. In this day and age of zero tolerance and pristine Soldiers, can we have real warriors? Until the feces hits the fan and real warriors are needed in abundance, I don't think so, save the SPECOPs. And when that happens, because it surely will, will there be any Chesty Puller's to lead the way or just clean cut M.B.A.s?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 29 at 2015 1:25 PM

2015-07-29T13:25:44-04:00

It depends on who gave the letter of reprimand and why. Did it go into the jacket or not? I know of a case where a soldier was given a Company grade letter of reprimands and put on 6 months probation, and he was later promoted to E6.. An Article 15 is a different matter I would say no to this.

Response by SSgt David Nace made Jul 29 at 2015 1:43 PM

2015-07-29T13:43:21-04:00

I actually got a LOR before changing commands in 2003. The LOR that I received was not adjudicated correctly and it still hurt my career and I would never pick up GySgt because of it. I tried to get it removed from my record, but the board had said that the fitness report that it was attached to had not been received by the time I was medically retired. It later showed up in my records, but I am not in anymore and it doesn't matter to me.

Though, when the promotion boards came up, it was part of the boards and I was not considered for promotion.

So, yes, these items can hurt your career now. They hurt my career 12 year ago, I don't see how it could have gotten easier to get this stuff by between then and now.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 29 at 2015 1:52 PM

2015-07-29T13:52:47-04:00

yes. but it is hard. I have a NJP on my record and still re-enlisted. im on a probationary re-enlistment for 2 years and then my career will be back on track. it takes a lot to bounce back from a lapse of judgment, you will be scrutinized by everyone looking for another little hiccup for a while but it is survivable. I am living proof of that. you also have to not only show that you did only have a momentary lapse but you have to show that you have improved because of the incident. you have to show that you walked through the gauntlet and came out stronger and wiser in a way that no one can doubt. it is hard because you can feel the eyes of everyone just looking for a minor misstep to call you out on and put you back on the chopping block. many service members don't bounce back because of this, they say "well they want me to fail now" and just keep digging that hole deeper.

Response by SPC George Adkins made Jul 29 at 2015 3:13 PM

2015-07-29T15:13:52-04:00

Patton would have never made it past 2lt in today's Army.

Response by SN Jennifer M. made Jul 30 at 2015 12:59 PM

2015-07-30T12:59:57-04:00

I think it really depends on what it was for.

Response by SGT William Howell made Jul 31 at 2015 7:51 AM

2015-07-31T07:51:36-04:00

Nope! You'll be lucky to survive to retirement. Had a SSG buddy that had a Art 15 for some bull child support thing from over 10 years ago, as a PFC. They did not allow him to re enlist. Never another issue with him. 12 years down the drain.

They have to cull the herd somehow and if I was a leader Art 15 would be where I would start looking too. Get rid of the problem children first. Then it would be NCO-ERs, APTF Scores, and last Weapons Quals. After that....Straws.

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Jul 31 at 2015 9:12 AM

2015-07-31T09:12:41-04:00

Can you, or will you? You can and, as with most things, it is all in the detail. With the down size, it makes it much harder but we do not know what next week is going to bring? The Canadians decide to launch a sneak attack and invade, well all bets are off.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 1 at 2015 11:02 PM

2015-08-01T23:02:00-04:00

No. Accountability is constantly endorsed by command. Mistakes are mistakes are mistakes. mistakes are the cog in accountability that skew the outcome. and cause yes mistakes happen but they are not constantly endorse by accountability. we our holding everyones feet to the fire

Response by Sgt Matt Koeneman made Aug 4 at 2015 1:43 AM

2015-08-04T01:43:53-04:00

Yes you can, I had multiple page 11's from a dark period in my career, but at the end of the day I still picked up E-5 in under 5 and only separated for medical reasons.

Response by 1SG Michael Blount made Sep 20 at 2015 9:23 PM

2015-09-20T21:23:06-04:00

Short answer - NOPE - and i don't care if it's for spitting on the sidewalk or whatever. Frankly, i don't understand what the big deal is. I mean, the point of an article 15 is to deal with minor infractions - with an emphasis on the word MINOR. If we're recruiting for the Boy Scouts and promoting based on Brownie points, that's one thing, but contrary to building a combat-effective Army.

Response by MSgt Edward Wayne Powell made Sep 22 at 2015 1:19 PM

2015-09-22T13:19:56-04:00

I can attest that at one time it could be overcome. I personally have been on the 'other side of the desk' a couple of times, mainly for being an honest, and unfortunately smart-ass Marine. I received mine early on in career and was told by the officer handling the Art. 15 'use this to further your career, not end it'. And I did, preparing to retire after 22 years of service and as a Master Sergeant in the infantry. However, in today's military climate, I do not believe the same could be held true. With 'up-or-out' promotion requirements, horrific leadership issues, and other restrictions brought about by both military services and government administration, it could indeed end the careers of many outstanding service members, those that otherwise would have served 20+ years doing what they are good at and love very much. Zero tolerance has become the standard, as COL Jean (John) F. B. pointed out. It used to be make a mistake, learn from it, move on. Now, make a mistake and you're all of a sudden 'not good enough'. Those who have been around the Marine Corps a while have heard the play on Admiral Nimitz' statement about Marines on Iwo Jima in WWII, "Of those who served, uncommon valor was a common virtue" be turned in to "For those we serve, common sense is an uncommon virtue". Sadly, this comes true all too often, with commanders foregoing common sense and looking at the 'standards' as end all, putting their stamp on the service by discharging those that 'failed to meet standards' in just one instance. And I too second LTC Thelma Carnes Rowe "Where is the justice in that?"

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Sep 22 at 2015 2:35 PM

2015-09-22T14:35:41-04:00

Yes, based on MOS and the needs of the military. Everything is based on the needs of the service.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2015 2:43 PM

2015-09-22T14:43:58-04:00

I can't speak for officers, but if the Marine Corps decided to kill the careers of everyone with an NJP, they wouldn't have any non rates. Seems like all the Corps does is ninja punch you every chance they get until you make corporal.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2015 10:20 PM

2015-09-22T22:20:36-04:00

As has always been the case it depends on how early within the service members career and under what circumstances. Yes, Soldiers can still overcome an Srticle-15 Non-Judicial punishment.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 2:06 AM

2015-09-23T02:06:06-04:00

As a NCO you are more likely to not survive an Article 15. As it stands now a "NCOER" even 10yrs back will more than likely keep you from promotion and definitely from re-enlistment.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 7:36 AM

2015-09-23T07:36:58-04:00

A number of factors effect whether a service member's career will be over after a LOR or NJP. Many folks mentioned how early in the career. Severity of the offense, duty performance other than the offense, timing of the offense during the member's enlistment, etc all play into the career affect on the service member. An article 15 shortly before you are up for re-enlistment will probably get you non-recommended. However, an absolute rockstar who still has several years until they are up for re-enlistment and rebounds quickly to superior performance has a good chance of surviving depending on the nature of the infraction. The First Sergeant would be the best source to ask based on individual consideration.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 1:04 PM

2015-09-23T13:04:53-04:00

My first roommate at DLI in 1986 had just been promoted to SGT for the third time. Never happen today.

Response by Amn Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 8:12 PM

2015-09-23T20:12:39-04:00

It is very possible to survive what are now regarded more as heavy weig punishments, LORs aren't too scarce, and they usually don't lead to much other than the fact you have recieved an LOR. Article 15s are a good bit more threatening, as they can come with demotions and pay deductions, and more. But from what I know from my not-all-that-extensive time in service, it seems that as long as you weren't a dirtbag prior to screwing up, you shouldn't have to pack your bags.

Response by SFC Fred Smith made Sep 23 at 2015 8:42 PM

2015-09-23T20:42:45-04:00

Unfortunately this is entirely depends on your rank, and who you know.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2015 3:31 PM

2015-09-25T15:31:56-04:00

If you could survive I would still be in. Not getting out on QSP.

Response by MSG Sean Milhauser made Sep 29 at 2015 11:16 PM

2015-09-29T23:16:48-04:00

Depending on the circumstances, you may make it to the end of your current contract (as an enlisted person), if it is a recent indicent. For example, the Army's Qualitative Management Program (QMP) will make it very difficult to still have a "successful career" with either of those in your records, unless maybe it was something that happened very early in a soldier's career.

Response by PO1 Howard Doll made Oct 1 at 2015 8:52 PM

2015-10-01T20:52:24-04:00

Back in my day, an Article 15 (Captain's Mast) was a rite of passage to make Chief. How can one learn if you are perfect all the time? One needs a setback in order to grow. Today's military takes away that - they want to be like a corporate firm. Step out of line, and you will be flipping burgers after your time in the military is over (or they kick you out). Nope, I would not make it in today's Corporate Military. My sense of honor, values, and political incorrectness (a liberal's favorite) forbids.

Response by SGT Jaime Becerra made Oct 2 at 2015 1:46 PM

2015-10-02T13:46:23-04:00

in todays POLITICAL military each can hurt ones career.
i myself served from 82-97, and had 3 article 15s ,but i had excelled in my career and was fortounate to have had excellent accomplishments that saved my career.
airtaz

Response by LCpl Steve Smith made Oct 8 at 2015 4:41 PM

2015-10-08T16:41:55-04:00

The Days of having a Career with a letter of Reprimand or Article 15 are over for the most part. I say that because there will always be the exception to the norm. In the Green Machine it's who "likes" you in the higher part of your Command. If they think you are a salvageable and they like you paperwork can get lost in the red tape...ex. I knew guy in my Section that went U.A. before the deployment to Desert Storm, turned himself in after and he not only stayed in he ended up becoming a Sgt by the time I got out. Because people in the higher command spoke up in that Marines favor, That happen just before I got to my unit, Over on the Rock (Okinawa) I was in the process of receiving Battalion Office hours, but after questioning by my Co. 1stSgt. the lieutenant (my OIC) that was bringing the charges against me dropped the charges, that was the 1st time lol. the next time I was to receive Battalion Office Hours, was my second time on the Rock. The (Butter Bar) lieutenant (new OIC) that was bringing the Charges against me ended up dropping the charges he filed. Both incidents were with the same command. I didn't know who in my chain of command got my back but I was grateful. That was the day before I got my Good Cookie lol, and that was at the time Clinton started to make staying in harder and offering early retirements for people not to re enlist. No I wasn't the best Jarhead out there we all screwed up at one point or another, but the hierarchy knew I did my job, no matter when or where or what conditions I was needed.

Response by SPC Christopher Perrien made Oct 15 at 2015 5:14 PM

2015-10-15T17:14:57-04:00

Forget it. Post Desert Storm the Army has gone to pot, It was already cracking up in the late 80's with new QMP ratings and PC invading everywhere. The only way you're going to dodge those bullets now is having friends in high places and/or where the decisions to bust you are made. Or having something on them.

Response by A1C Andrew Havens made Jan 25 at 2016 1:24 PM

2016-01-25T13:24:30-05:00

I enlisted at 22 following my graduation from FSU. I finished the basic Korean course at DLI as the top graduate among my peers, the only one to receive a 3/3 on the DLPT (17 other classmates). I then was the Honor Graduate at my follow-on tech school. After this, I was stationed in Korea where I received my first Article 15 for Drunk and disorderly and disrespecting an NCO. I used poor judgement and drank more than I should have. When security forces picked me up, I was disrespectful (So they say..I may have, but I only know what was told to me the following day). I received a suspended bust and loss of pay, restriction to base. 6 months later, I was out with some friends. One became intoxicated to the point that I had been 6 months prior. My friend disappeared and when we bumped into each other in the barracks, he was very angry looking and when I approached him he turned to me and pinned me to the wall by my throat. After unsuccessfully trying to push him off of me, I punched him. This led to my second Article 15 for "assault" (an article 15 for self-defense probably wouldn't make sense). A few months later I arrived to my follow on base and was told that I would be going to the chopping black, AFQRB. 9 months later I was honorably discharged (Sep 2014). I immediately transitioned to grad school. The following year I applied to the San Antonio Fire Department, ranked 9th out of thousands of applicants on the civil service exam. Upon reaching the personal history statement, I fully disclosed my article 15s with full explanations of the nature of each. I was disqualified from employment within days.

To answer the question, yes. Even if I hadn't gotten the second Article 15, I would have gone to the chopping block and gotten discharged. My supervisor told me that of all of the people with negative indicators that were going to the chopping block in my squadron, my commander only recommended keeping one (PT failure).

Response by TSgt Torrence Harris made Apr 26 at 2016 11:02 AM

2016-04-26T11:02:41-04:00

Today that's very difficult. Before there was some chance. If you have a UIF you can't re-enlist. Game over! The type discharge is now a factor.

Response by Amn Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2016 8:27 PM

2016-05-12T20:27:54-04:00

I received an LOR at my shop after about 4 months at this base, ever since that, they have come at me with one thing after another and now I am receiving an Article 15 from the Squadron CC. So in these days, I would say no. The moment you pop on that radar, you stay.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2016 10:35 PM

2016-05-21T22:35:43-04:00

Not anymore. The QMP is automated. Any field grade A15 or letter of reprimand will automatically flag you in the next QMP board. Good luck appealing....

Response by MSgt Jason McClish made Jul 11 at 2017 10:05 PM

2017-07-11T22:05:37-04:00

This is a compound answer as it all depends on the member's status. For an officer, in my experience you're career is definitely over. For a junior member or NCO, one can recover, if still allowed to continue service and aren't involuntarily separated due to personnel drawdowns. For a senior NCO, one may continue service, but the chances of promotion again are very bleak.

Response by Jane Porter made Apr 2 at 2018 11:44 AM

2018-04-02T11:44:16-04:00

My husband who is a Lt. Col just got an LOC for abusive behavior in the office. His command contacted me, and got me safely out of the house. He is far from being a "brave warrior" (I have more bravery and integrity in my little finger...)he is simply a pathetic coward for picking on a woman and child, so thank GOD for the LOC process. This is just my experience!

Response by Jane Porter made Apr 2 at 2018 11:46 AM

2018-04-02T11:46:40-04:00

My husband, a Lt. Col got an LOC for abusive behavior to his colleagues. He is not a brave warrior, but a coward and a bully (never even been in combat in his life). So thank GOD for the LOC in this case. I am sorry for those who get them undeserved, but this one probably saved my life.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Apr 2 at 2018 9:18 PM

2018-04-02T21:18:40-04:00

Response by A1C Eugene Nalesnik made Apr 4 at 2019 7:28 PM

2019-04-04T19:28:33-04:00

In my career I had 2 article 15s and numerous reprimands, and threatened with Courts Marshals. I beat all these.

Response by TSgt Melissa Post made Feb 5 at 2020 12:39 AM

2020-02-05T00:39:10-05:00

Doubtful when they use a failed PT test as an excuse to withhold an accommodation medal. Let’s forget about all the amazing things a person has done at their duty station for over half a decade you failed a pt test and have threes on your eprs because no babies were saved from burning buildings and you weren’t promotable at the time of that epr therefore you don’t deserve this.