In your opinion about corrective training, do you believe that essays as punishment are effective?

2021-03-16T08:08:19-04:00

I had two soldiers be late twice this month and writing there counseling and was pondering their corrective trying. I was wondering if making them write a hand written essay is punishment? Also was wondering if they where effective deterrents.

Response by SP5 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2021 8:19 AM

2021-03-16T08:19:35-04:00

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member Have them do a tag team training session for the rest of the group explaining the value of showing up on time, and the negative impact on all hands when one or more is late. Their essays could be in the form of a lesson plan. A side benefit is that the troops become accustomed to group presentations and public speaking.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2021 8:39 AM

2021-03-16T08:39:49-04:00

It depends on the Soldier. Punishments should be catered to what is effective for the Soldier. Essays only work if the NCO actually reads them, and knows enough proper English to find mistakes. I personally love the "1000 word essay. An, A, The don't count. Handwritten." Soldier brings me 3-4 pages, I glance at them, and rip it in half and throw it away.
Next time, I give the same punishment. - Soldier expects me to rip it, but this time I read the whole thing, red pen the #^&* out of it and make them correct it - especially if there's paragraphs of nonsense to take up space.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Mar 16 at 2021 9:00 AM

2021-03-16T09:00:24-04:00

Corrective training is NOT SUPPOSED TO BE PUNISHMENT. An NCO's job is to train. To enforce standards. To make corrections and addresses defeciencies.
Only Commanders are authorized to impose punishment .
If your goal is to punish, you're wrong.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2021 9:31 AM

2021-03-16T09:31:54-04:00

If they are anything like my middle schoolers (probs are if they are showing up late) then no. They write their essays, turn it in, without learning a damn thing just do it so they don't get fined (Like Marshawn) so nah find something that will teach them and actually make them fearful of being late.

Response by SSG Robert Perrotto made Mar 16 at 2021 9:38 AM

2021-03-16T09:38:00-04:00

Absolutely. Nothing wrong with an "RBI" being assigned as corrective training. Essays, if utilized correctly, makes the SM research the relevant AR/DA/Policy letters as to why the action/behavior was wrong, along with an understanding of the regulations and guidelines that govern military life. I feel it is a better alternative to simple physical exercises, takes a bit of their time away, and professionally develops smarter and more lethal team members.

Response by CPL Earl Kochis made Mar 16 at 2021 9:53 AM

2021-03-16T09:53:36-04:00

Gonna be honest! If my NCO tried to get me to write an essay he or she would’ve never gotten one! I hate writing. And if you are trying to punish an adult you already failed. A soldier showing up late has an underlying issue going on and maybe your time would be better trying to find out what is going on in their life that is causing the issue and help them correct that instead of trying to Punish!

Response by SSG Robert Perrotto made Mar 16 at 2021 10:17 AM

2021-03-16T10:17:27-04:00

another thing to add, and this is a bit of constructive criticism - I would not require hand written essays unless you are prepared to decipher their grammar, and handwriting. Also, be aware of your role as a Non Commissioned Officer, we are not authorized to punish Soldiers, that is reserved solely to the Commander through the Uniform Code of Military Justice. We are authorized to conduct corrective training, and recommend to the Commander if we feel punishment is required through a 4856. At no time should we, as NCO's, take it upon ourselves to punish Soldiers for infractions. Hate to bust your balls about it, but it seems you could write an essay regarding the role of an NCO when it comes to the UCMJ.

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Mar 16 at 2021 11:27 AM

2021-03-16T11:27:09-04:00

It really depends on the Soldier. Personally, when I start writing, I have a hard time meeting MAXIMUM requirements - I am VERY verbose, and the words just roll off my fingers. You make me write an essay and I shrug it off. MOST of the Soldiers I had, essays were one of my "go-to" actions. But I would ALWAYS make them research essays.

My research essays served THREE primary purposes. First, it makes the Soldier dive into the regulations and understand what the ACTUAL rules are (and the topic would always correlate to the infraction). Second, a component of the essay was an exploration of WHY that rule was important, so it helped the Soldier to understand their role and the reason why I am enforcing these rules (above and beyond just "because that's the rule). Third, it helped with their writing.

One thing to note, though, is that if you assign an essay, you had better be prepared to take the time to read and correct it - as many times as needed until they get it right. (And you had better be a fully competent writer yourself in order to correct it.) For this reason, I would recommend NOT doing hand-written. First, we no longer write shit, we are a computerized Army. We may write down notes or important info in a notebook, but we don't produce memos, oporders, white papers, intel reports, or any of that crap by hand anymore. So make it compatible with how we ACTUALLY operate. Second, if you are going to correct it and sent it back to be re-done, having it done by hand WOULD start coming danger close to the "punishment" line - and most 1SGs I know would think it had crossed that line. Allowing them to use standard word processing programs for creation and editing is TRAINING them. Making them write it out by hand is LIKELY punishing them.

When properly executed, a research essay can be an EXCELLENT corrective training measure for most Soldiers. They serve as a MILD deterrent, and they address the problem behavior. I have only had a couple of times where I utilized an essay and it was not effective. Both of those times were with the same Soldier, who ended up chaptered out of the Army. In hindsight, it was NOT the proper corrective training for that Soldier, because I mistakenly believed that Soldier gave a damn, when they did not. There are a couple other times I COULD have used an essay, but I went a different route. One was because the Soldier was such a poor writer that it would have been legitimate punishment to require an essay (that Soldier WAS enrolled in FAST class, and then subsequently worked with by their TL to improve their writing - not like I ignored the problem). The other was because the (AD) Soldier was already enrolled in 2 Master's Level courses - adding an essay on top of the existing writing for schoolwork would have just been cruel. Additionally, due to that Soldier's high level of research proficiency and writing skill, it would not have served much of a corrective purpose - they consumed and regurgitated so much BS that they never even processed mentally that this would have been the same way. Knock out 3 page paper for SGT asshole and move on to next assignment.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2021 11:43 AM

2021-03-16T11:43:52-04:00

I've had a few Soldiers be late. In turn, I gave them essays to write. The instructions were to write a 500 word essay on their infractions, the Article of UCMJ it violated, the ramifications of said action that can happen via UCMJ and to the unit. It was to be written in pen, in print and with no errors of ANY kind.

And yes, it was an effective deterrent after the first 2 Soldiers had to do this. I also had them stand at Parade Rest at my desk while I read the essay and counted the words. My goal was to educate their mind and get them to research. And, I did this with the Commander's approval. They were counselled and the essay was part of the Plan of Action.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2021 12:39 PM

2021-03-16T12:39:25-04:00

I think this can be very effective corrective training. Just punishing them in any way is an eye opener and lets them know that you are holding them accountable for their actions.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2021 1:04 PM

2021-03-16T13:04:18-04:00

I assisted my BLO in teaching an LPD to NCO's involving counselings and the use of corrective training, and essays can be used as corrective training. Your BLO might have a differing opine on the issue but ours stressed that the essay should be realistic and pertain to the deficiency.

For example telling them to write a 20,000 word essay on the Army Values is not realistic or effective, where as writing a 1,000 word essay on the necessity of time management in this case would be effective. You could also have them research and teach a class related to their deficiency to their peers. Additionally you can require them to report early or to specific persons in your counselings plan of action and that is considered corrective training.

Corrective training is typically viewed to be within an NCO's territory whereas punishment is within the commanders. So your plan of action for example shouldn't be to put them on extra duty after their normal work hours as that is something that is on commanders time and in the commanders purview. Having them perform additional training during the duty day is seen as NCO time.

If the deficiencies continue despite corrective training it's important that your counselings contain the 5W's and be followed up with the assessment portion of the counseling before moving on to an additional counseling addressing their deficiency. This is important for the NCO chain to assess and attempt to correct the issue before it reaches the 1SG and CO's level. It also serves as a way to properly document the incident so that if the Soldier can not be corrected the NCO chain can recommend UCMJ action to the commander.

I've seen JAG turn down counselings as supporting documents for things like failing to report (FTR) on time due to a lack of information and having no assessment on the counselings.

MSG Private RallyPoint Member, SFC Michael Hasbun, and SFC Casey O'Mally make valid points to be considered going forward.

Also something to consider on negative counselings is to not include the UCMJ article number in the counseling. If they failed to report just put that, don't put down article 86. You might be right, but in some circumstances JAG may provide a different charge than what you put down. Additionally, seek out the "magic bullet" that your unit uses for negative counselings. If that's not on the there JAG may deny the counseling as a supporting document due to the Soldier not being effectively informed of what actions could be taken against them for their continued misconduct.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2021 7:26 PM

2021-03-16T19:26:38-04:00

First of all Corrective training is not punishment. The only person in your unit that can give punishments is your commander. Your job as an NCO is to train. Now you have two Soldiers coming to work late. What do you do for corrective training? What I would do is have them make up the time after the time their duty would normally end. The period of time they have to stay after their normal “quitting time” would be up to you. Of course record all of your attempt to get across to them the importance of being at work when they’re supposed to be there on counseling forms. Writing essays? Nah, that wouldn’t work, but causing them to lose some of their off duty time will.

Response by SSG Dale London made Mar 16 at 2021 7:27 PM

2021-03-16T19:27:10-04:00

I would not bother with the essay. I would have them report to the CQ at hourly intervals wearing different uniforms for a 24 hour period on a non-duty day (with the interval increased to four-hourly between 2200 and 0600). This would undoubtedly train these soldiers to report on time in the correct uniform. Practice makes perfect, after all.

Oh - I almost forgot - have the CQ inspect their uniforms and record it in the log.

Response by Maj John Bell made Mar 16 at 2021 7:52 PM

2021-03-16T19:52:05-04:00

No.

In primary, secondary, and post secondary education an essay assignment is a tool that challenges a student to hopefully acquire here to fore unknown knowledge, and to present that newly acquired knowledge in a cogent, logical manner.

Essay writing would be an effective tool if, and only if the soldier did not know that tardiness was socially unacceptable, particularly so in a military environment, and that the soldier did not know that their were punitive consequences to tardiness. If a soldier doesn't know that by the time they leave boot camp, the soldier does not have the mental capacity to function as a military member.

Let's call it what it is. Essay assignments for basic social norms are busy work BS. EVERYBODY involved knows what such assignments are. Its a way of forcing the soldier to self flagellate. I might have a soldier prepare a lesson plan on something that improves their warfighting knowledge like Small UNIT Patrolling, Non-illuminated Night Attacks, or Fire Support Planning but NEVER on a mundane topic like "Be on Time." I never force a soldier to say that they are stupid.

If their tardiness is a "one off" I'd ask the soldier if tardiness was going to become a habit, and tell them there will be consequences for future offenses. If it indeed happened again, the next time, they'd pull every crap detail that had to be done anyways, after hours, until I was sure that they would have the appropriate sense of urgency in the future. If it happened a third time I'd make it hurt with the UCMJ.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Mar 16 at 2021 8:34 PM

2021-03-16T20:34:54-04:00

Depends on the soldier(s). You could play “report here” all day on a Saturday instead. Have them report to various locations at prescribed times, like ACS, BH Clinic, The Gym etc. you are showing them resilience resources while reinforcing the need to report on time at the right place in the right uniform

Response by PO1 J D made Mar 18 at 2021 10:48 AM

2021-03-18T10:48:48-04:00

I made the sailors who worked for me learn and be able to recite something I learned from my dad. “ early is on time , on time is late and late is unacceptable “ on the second time we had a bit of emi and it usually included the bilges

Response by SFC Dennis Rodriguez made Mar 19 at 2021 4:11 PM

2021-03-19T16:11:19-04:00

Damn, I am so glad im not part of this anymore.

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Mar 20 at 2021 9:46 AM

2021-03-20T09:46:31-04:00

Smoking them was always an effective deterrent, or the Gunny putting them on shit details so they could be mocked by their peers. Essays? Geez these guys are soldiers not HS kids, it’s how far this snowflake crap has evolved.

Response by CSM Jerry Weldon made Apr 11 at 2021 7:29 PM

2021-04-11T19:29:28-04:00

No. Old rule, 3 counseling statements signed by supervisor and soldiers are like baseball. You are out. Art 15 for failure to repair. Lesson learned.

Response by CPO Nate S. made Oct 21 at 2021 5:29 PM

2021-10-21T17:29:47-04:00

I tend to believe as SFC Michael Hasbun does. it is "NOT SUPPOSED TO BE PUNISHMENT".

In the Navy we call it EMI "Extra Military Instruction". It is designed to shore up a sailor's knowledge and skills where they are deficient in the skills, they should have mastered but have not. It is extra instructional time!

Typically, it can cut into other "free time", thus laying the groundwork for motivation to master skills so time that might have been free between watch periods would be filled with additional instruction to bolster skills. Meaning enforcement of standards.

Keep punishment - punishment! Again, ONLY the CO issues punishment!!!!

Keep the development of skills and productive behaviors for themselves and the unit as part of your training program as a junior leader. Remember, you are a teacher and deck plate leader!!! They follow where you lead! You want them build "continual quality" in all they do!

I would say that if they should have written a report or some other document (log entries included) you expected them to write in a particular manner then writing as a form of instruction is fine. If someone has poor writing skills this could be an issue. They need other support, unless of course you have an English degree. I have only used writing in this manner to enforce stands of proper records keeping and the correct manner to do watch logs. It can be, quite effective.

I realize you wrote this back in Mar 2021. I have not seen it until now. Hope whatever you did worked, and your soldiers are better for it.

Just and ole Navy Chief chiming in!

Response by SMSgt Bob Wilson made Oct 22 at 2021 8:31 PM

2021-10-22T20:31:33-04:00

Are you joking? This isn't elementary school. Now Private Smith, that was a NO, NO. Go stand in the corner until mess call.

Response by SGT Tom Recupero made Mar 21 at 2022 4:41 PM

2022-03-21T16:41:49-04:00

It depends. For a Soldier that hates to write, yes. If they’re a Military Journalist… no.

Response by Deborah Gregson made Mar 25 at 2022 4:00 AM

2022-03-25T04:00:56-04:00

"I had two soldiers be late twice this month and writing there counseling and was pondering their corrective trying. I was wondering if making them write a hand written essay is punishment? Also was wondering if they where effective deterrents."

I'm looking at this from the POV of a former reading teacher (MEd Reading; BA English). If one is going to assign an essay as part of a deterrent or corrective action one should be able to write well themself or at least know how to use an app like Grammarly. You can't have the soldiers write essays if you're not able to read them for grammatical errors, context, form, or just know whether or not what they've written is understandable and communicating clear thought ("pondering their corrective trying."). People need to have someone edit their writing if they are in doubt and a simple app like Grammarly is quite helpful.