Inclusion in the military. You're special, just like everyone else.

2015-01-01T04:59:08-05:00

I can't help but to feel that we tend to over compensate in some areas. Inclustion in the military is one of them that I feel that we overreach. Everyone should feel like a member of the team and should feel that they are valuable. But there is a point where you try to make everyone feel special. If everyone is special then we are all the same and you redefined what really is special. Changing norms will not have the desired effect you may intend in the long run.

First, it was the black beret. I understand that others wore it before the Rangers did. But the only ones who were wearing it was the Rangers at the time. Below is an official statement.

"In the United States Army, the beret has become a symbol of excellence of our specialty units. Soldiers of the Special Forces, our airborne units, and the Ranger Regiment have long demonstrated such excellence through their legendary accomplishments and unmatched capabilities. Their deployability, versatility, and agility are due, in part, to their organizational structure and equipment."

They got it right that they beret was a symbol of excellence. But if everyone in the Army is excellent wouldn't that just be average. Excellence reserved for those that strive beyond that that is average. But everyone got it and were so proud of it all.

Next came the awards. Now we have awards such as the Combat Action Badge, Sapper Tab, Jungle Expert Tab, and the Army Instructor Badge. I understand the intent behind them. But I can't recall a time when so many new badges came out in one shot. At first Special Forces didn't even have a tab and the President himself was the one that authorized the wear of the Green Beret.

In addition we have more patches that came out. We now have the "MP" and "CBRN" patch. I thought you were to only wear them when on duty that is not the case now. I am sure there are some more.

Are we developing a culture where we award you for doing your job? Should you get an award for what is expected of you? Do you deserve a special uniform accessory for just being in the Army and if so is it special anymore if everyone has it?

It always reminds me of this movie. It is a comedy. This clips explains it pretty well.

4A031

the real military

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 1 at 2015 5:11 AM

2015-01-01T05:11:13-05:00

I don't have an issue with most of those - the one that I do find amusing however is seeing soldiers who were attached to 44th medcom wearing airborn tabs even though they've never jumped out of anything.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 1 at 2015 5:19 AM

2015-01-01T05:19:50-05:00

I agree in principle with most of these points. As the S1, I recently had to review an award submitted by a SRNCO for his Soldier that passed a record APFT....barely passed. And this is after failing 3 previous APFTs over 9 months (1 record and 2 diagnostics). Why is he trying to recognize a Soldier for doing what is REQUIRED of them?! He said it was because the Soldier improved the score by over 40 points, well that's easy to do when you have a failing score of 152!! And let's be honest, is a 192 something to be really proud of?

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 1 at 2015 5:50 AM

2015-01-01T05:50:19-05:00

The crazy thing is the difference between services in awards given. I deployed with CENTCOM under US Airforce command, and we got JSAMs. All the officers attached to Army units were getting Bronze Stars, for doing the same work as us. We were even told point blank by CENTCOM that no impact awards would be given for anything outside of valor - meanwhile the Army units were handing out AAMs like candy and field promoting people. There's also a big difference between officers and enlisted - officers get pay, enlisted get candy. I know many enlisted who stopped even accepting achievement medals towards the end of their career and had lost count of how many they actually have. I was 5 years in before getting my first AAM and I think that after 5 years I was rocking 5 ribbons total - 3 of which were the freebies.

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Jan 1 at 2015 10:28 AM

2015-01-01T10:28:13-05:00

I was going to a different unit. While doing my S1 check out, I over hear them talking about giving this certain soldier and AAM because he was PCSing. I knew the soldier, and he did nothing special, just his job. I spoke up and said, "What, giving an AAM just because he's leaving?" The S1 NCOs reply was, yea, and they are giving you one as well. I asked him what for, I did nothing to deserve an AAM. So when my last day came I was given a coffee mug with the unit crest on it and a Certificate of Appreciation for my work. THIS FIT THE BILL. I was proud of the coffee mug!

While in Iraq I was asked for input on awards. My list was very, very short. I was not consulted further and come to find out so many awards were given for doing their jobs. I even seen a LTC receive a BSM and he was relieved twice from positions because he couldn't do the job.

When I was 1SG and our unit came back from a Corps Exercise, I made sure everyone received at least a Certificate of Appreciation, and I took the time to write each one individually. Sure my unit was only a detachment size. If there were others who deserved more, then they got it. Yes people like to be recognized for what they do and there are awards for each level, from a Cert of App, Coin, all the way to medals. But I've seen too many awards given for ?

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Jan 1 at 2015 1:39 PM

2015-01-01T13:39:11-05:00

And you army guys complain about AF Awards!

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 1 at 2015 2:37 PM

2015-01-01T14:37:13-05:00

Well, CPT Private RallyPoint Member, I wrote a longer response to this thread, but it disappeared when I clicked Respond.

Bottom line is that I agree with you: If everybody's special, then nobody's special.

That said, WE'RE ALL WINNERS!!!

PS: Great photo and excellent movie clip! Thanks for sharing both.

Response by COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM made Jan 1 at 2015 2:57 PM

2015-01-01T14:57:09-05:00

A few thoughts:
- Pay, Awards, Promotions. We are paid to do our job, we receive awards for going above and beyond in the performance of our job, we are promoted based upon our potential to serve at a higher pay grade. Three different criteria for three different purposes that unfortunately people get confused on. Awards should not be given for merely doing one's job and promotions should not be based merely upon performance.
- Awards. There is a limited number of awards for which a commander has wide discretion on giving. One of the few limiting factors is the level of commander required to approve various awards which is supposed to act like a QA/QC function. Handing awards out like candy results in Soldiers looking like Soviet generals and feeling (or should feel) like a Special Olympics participant (everyone is a winner).
- Badges. A badge is not a guarantee of a top notch Soldier but it is (or should be) an indicator that a Soldier has met a certain performance standard and therefore a base line of competence.
- Promotions. Promotion rates go up and down over time based upon supply and demand. This means growing Armies have increased promotion rates and necessarily an overall reduced quality. Shrinking Armies have the reverse as a macro statement. There are always exceptions to the rule at the individual level.
- Separations. Same principle as above but mirror image. Simply stated, a Soldier separated from the Army in 2008 was a POS but a Soldier separated in 2014 was not necessarily a POS. The cut line merely moved based upon supply and demand and therefore a different standard results.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 1 at 2015 3:27 PM

2015-01-01T15:27:15-05:00

The only thing I would say in regards to the original post about the "MP" and "CBRN" patch is for the "MP" patch I would refer to DA PAM 670-1 21-30. When I was still active it came down from Office of Provost Marshal General that MPs would wear their brassards. It also gave Commanders to set local policy as well. I know when stationed at Ft. Polk we could only wear them while performing Military Police duties such as gate guard, patrol, desk, or bailiff. However at my last unit it was mandated that we would wear them at all times while in uniform.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Jan 1 at 2015 3:51 PM

2015-01-01T15:51:35-05:00

Careful LT, next they might pass out Ranger tabs....lol.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 1 at 2015 5:19 PM

2015-01-01T17:19:58-05:00

Beret? I think that was stupid. I agree that giving recognition and awards away makes them valueless. And giving the beret to the entire Army made the beret meaningless. The Army is way to big and diverse to have a strong esprit de corps like the Marine Corps does. Having pride in your Branch, MOS, battalion, company, or what have you is very important to uphold Army standards as well as morale. So if the thing is given to everyone it's meaningless. But if it's given to those who earn it, it means something. The MP patch is new, but they used to be allowed MP armbands back in the day, so I don't see that as being new. And it denotes MPs as NOT anybody else. As for the Sapper tab, if infantry can have the Ranger Tab, why can't we have a Sapper Tab? It represents being the best of the best as a combat engineer. I don't see how a combat engineer wearing a Sapper Tab dilutes the value of a Ranger Tab. If the Engineer Corps gave Ranger Tabs when you graduated Sapper Leader Course, I can see Infantry and Rangers being pissed.
As for the Combat Action Badge, that's just the Army recognizing what Combat Engineers have know for a long time, "Infantry may be Queen of the Battle, but it combat engineers who make sure she don't get raped." That was a deliberate poke in the eye, and an attempt at humor. Hope nobody takes it too seriously.

Response by 1SG Clifford Barnes made Jan 1 at 2015 6:44 PM

2015-01-01T18:44:51-05:00

I agree you get a badge for waking up now. They used to be earned.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Jan 1 at 2015 9:47 PM

2015-01-01T21:47:21-05:00

Sort of like replaceing the ribbons on dress uniforms with a "participant" ribbon. Everybody gets one?...lol

Response by PO3 Noe Benavidez made Jan 4 at 2015 9:59 PM

2015-01-04T21:59:42-05:00

Medals and ribbons were not what made you a good member of the United States military! What made you special was the fact that you actually enlisted and did what you felt was your duty without question! I did receive two metals three ribbons while I was in the Navy I am now qualify to have received an additional 17 metals and 17 ribbons but they are not what I and why was in the Navy those two metals and three ribbons areare all that matters to me.

Response by SSgt Randy Saulsberry made Jan 5 at 2015 8:48 PM

2015-01-05T20:48:51-05:00

i have commented on other threads regarding the Army uniform. Me being a Marine, which has the least amount of ribbons and badges among all the branches, i believe all the branches have to much goin on. i think with all the medals, ribbons and badges on the Army uniform distracts from what it means to see a Soldier in his uniform. there is so much goin on that you cant help but to want to ask what each ribbon and meadal is and what did you do to get that one. The uniform should reflect how you are "an Army of one" or "Army Strong", lbut with so much emphasis placed on your personal achievements it blinds a person from notiing the Army to just seeing the individual.

Response by PFC Daniel Salb made Jan 6 at 2015 12:26 AM

2015-01-06T00:26:29-05:00

I was already out when the black beret for regular troops. Many of my other airborne friends were not as annoyed as I was. We earned that beret. We didn't just graduate from jump school but more importantly we lived and worked as elite soldiers. Some of us going on to far more elite units than us.
Interstingly my friends we wore the green and black beret's were the least likely to make a fuss. I think that speaks volumes. True professionals. The beret was a symbol for them but their job was what was and is important.
I sure do wish though that there was more for troops to aspire to. Geeze, I guess my unit would all wear the sapper tab. We went to Jungle school so I guess we would get a tab for that. Pretty soon we'd run out of space!

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Jan 6 at 2015 1:25 PM

2015-01-06T13:25:43-05:00

This is what I always liked about the Marine uniform. The differences between two Marines in full Dress from E9 to E1 are actually rather insignificant.

Sure one might have fewer medals & ribbons, but there are no patches, tabs, berets, lanyards, spurs, etc.

Just a shitload of Stripes & Hashmarks. The medals you see are his. They go with him wherever he goes. You know exactly where you stand. And damn near everyone has those beautiful crossed rifles.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 19 at 2015 2:19 PM

2015-06-19T14:19:47-04:00

I think that there are some good things going on with helping everyone express the uniqueness of their units. As an artillery officer in a cab regiment, I wear cross sabers, Spurs, and a Stetson with my red socks and tie. I think it is important for some elements to be able to express themselves as different. The black beret was/is a silly choice. But allowing different branches to have their expressions does not detract from the infantry combat badge or the ranger tab.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 9 at 2017 1:06 PM

2017-10-09T13:06:42-04:00

Is the staff sergeant in the photo accompanying this post a real soldier or a fraud? Does the army allow that much stuff on the uniform?

Response by PO1 David Johnson made Oct 9 at 2017 3:05 PM

2017-10-09T15:05:55-04:00

Yes, it's called the MOS ribbon

Response by Cpl Rc Layne made Oct 9 at 2017 3:41 PM

2017-10-09T15:41:11-04:00

As a Marine, the only thing that I ever wanted to put on my uniform was the Eagle, Globe and Anchor. If your uniform accoutrements were more exclusive instead of inclusive, I bet there would be a lot more pride displayed by the individual. And just as a complete aside, as a young PFC in 1983, I earned my Jungle Expert certificate in Panama. Had a blast.

Response by COL Jerold Wood made Oct 9 at 2017 8:50 PM

2017-10-09T20:50:44-04:00

I guess the picture of the SSGT is old as its dress greens. But someone should have looked into the personnel file of that SSGT. NO WAY He has earned all that spaghetti!

Response by LTJG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 10 at 2017 10:51 AM

2017-10-10T10:51:53-04:00

What's wrong with the sapper tab?

Response by LTC Russ Smith made Oct 10 at 2017 10:57 PM

2017-10-10T22:57:46-04:00

The current black beret is part of the feel good, Dr. Spock BS. Trophies for showing up, berets as ribbons for finishing basic training.

Response by SPC David Willis made Feb 13 at 2018 3:13 PM

2018-02-13T15:13:02-05:00

Thank you sir! I see you and my mother have been talking quite a bit.

Response by TSgt Christopher Duemmel made Sep 10 at 2018 7:08 PM

2018-09-10T19:08:41-04:00

Lt Rosa, you’re 10% correct. When I was in the Navy a number of years ago, getting your warfare pin was really an accomplishment. I was an air warfare designee. You had a lot of work to do and a lot of knowledge to gain. I was pinned in 1988 by the commanding officer of the uSS Swight D. Eisenhower and I personally felt I really did something. Now, it’s expected to advance and it is open to anyone, not just aviation. You used to have already made E-4 and now kids are getting this done in the first couple years of a career. Sad. It has cheapened the process to the point where it is meaningless.

Response by SPC Aaron Jowell made Sep 11 at 2018 4:59 PM

2018-09-11T16:59:32-04:00

Awards have became ridiculous. When i received an ARCOM on deployment it meant something to me at first, but when i saw that fobbits were receiving one as well and they never left the base and were in harms way it insulted me. Leadership gave ARCOMS to useless shitbag soldiers.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 11 at 2018 10:07 PM

2018-09-11T22:07:34-04:00

Isn’t this ironic an infantry officer making a post about berets, badges, and distinctions. EVERY School designed specifically for infantry Soldiers has a special pin or badge associated with it. If it weren’t for Senior Infantry Officers who never could get tan or green berets the black beret would not be in the army inventory for every joe and Jane in basic training. Same with Airborne, there are 3 different cool guy levels and a damn red beret! Stop trying to one up each other. We don’t care that your ORB/ERB is on your daily uniform. Why have Class A’s, we already know you have 4 badges and a Tab, and probably not many ribbons because you’ve spent your entire 3 year commitment at Benning in “training”, while low density MOS’s are doing the heavy lifting in combat zones as PVTs and 2LTs. This sounds like the ramblings of a bitter LT who didn’t make it through SFAS. Like my drill sergeant always told me, “do something remarkable and you will be recognized”. Congrats you passed a school you were expected to, you don’t deserve a special trophy for it. ie airborne wings, air assault wings, path finder badge, ranger tab, sapper tab, eib, cib, cab, Eod crab, free fall badge. The only ones that should exist are the Special forces tab and green beret... they’re actually special because if you spent two years in specific training you deserve something, that is an accomplishment. As far as brassard, you were obviously too poorly educated to even know what they are, an MP can only where it while serving on the road in the capacity of an officer. And the CBRN brassard was designed to distinguish CBRN soldiers down range (not for garrison wear) during the HUNDREDS of Hazard Material missions in Iraq since there is typically 1-4 Soldiers in a Battalion, and that brassard let’s knuckle nuts 11B know not to kick over the black jugs of acid he thinks is water.... which actually happened! Pro Tip... do research before you sound foolish.

Response by SSG Mark Matteson made Sep 12 at 2018 12:10 AM

2018-09-12T00:10:15-04:00

You want to be special? Go Earn your Green or Tan Beret, everything else just doesn't measure up.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 12 at 2018 12:10 AM

2018-09-12T00:10:25-04:00

I’m only going to speak on the MP part. We’ve had MP patches and even MP painted on our helmets as long as the infantry have had blue chords. Certain MP brigades have NCO’s and Officers wear the MP patch when they are “off duty” and in uniform as a deterrent. (Whether you believe it actually does that is debatable, but it is the policy) But I do agree with the other points you make, I just think everyone is trying to distinguish themselves from one another. Black beret, maroon beret, tan beret, green beret, I don’t think one takes any bit of pride away from the other, because it’s well known what each stands for, and what is required in order to wear that beret.

Response by SGT Larry Lile made Sep 12 at 2018 2:22 AM

2018-09-12T02:22:02-04:00

Yep we are giving away participation trophy

I earned the right to wear a black Berea in the early, 1970s, it designated you were the tip of the spear, not the shaft,
Not knocking other mos's but there's a reason they were nicknamed REMF

Response by MSgt Phillip Ashley made Sep 12 at 2018 8:19 AM

2018-09-12T08:19:31-04:00

I think Army Brass is adhering to the Napolean concept of "a soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon". I am retired USAF and we had/have a similar problem, ribbons and awards for just being present. I think it's what I call the Millenial Mentality, the awarding of participation trophies.

Response by MSgt Dollar Bill Rutledge made Sep 12 at 2018 11:20 AM

2018-09-12T11:20:04-04:00

Seems like it’s getting to be like in school, everyone gets an award just for showing up.

Response by SPC Michael Vesterfelt made Sep 12 at 2018 5:08 PM

2018-09-12T17:08:42-04:00

Back in the day, I and other MP's thought we deserved special recognition. We wanted beret's. What color?, white?. Green and gold are the MPcolors. I still believe that MP's deserve a certain distinctive accessory. The beret should have been left to the few that took the challenge and made the grade. I think the Rangers need their Black beret's back.

Response by CW4 Brian Haas made Sep 12 at 2018 6:58 PM

2018-09-12T18:58:40-04:00

I think of it maybe a little different...if I can get get one of my Soldiers an award, it shows my appreciation. Showing your Soldiers a little appreciation goes a long way...they will be way more willing to do everything hey can for you when they know you are doing what you can for them. I mean, I’m not giving them one for doing nothing...but it costs us nothing but a little time to do a write up. Does it really hurt anything to get your guys an AAM or ARCOM? The return you get from the Soldier is more than worth it. I don’t understand why so many people have issues with others getting an award...jealousy? Ok...the dude getting one for raising his PT score to a passing score...no...not in that case. But in general, take care of your Soldiers and they will take care of you. That means going above and beyond to get the job done, and done to a higher standard. If writing a few awards makes your Soldier feel better and work harder/better...why would you not?

Response by MSG Mark Stinson made Sep 12 at 2018 9:48 PM

2018-09-12T21:48:47-04:00

My dad was a lifer 1936-1966. During WWII he served with Detachment 101, OSS in the CBI Theatre. He retired before the proliferation of awards. After I had been in 21 years he saw my ribbon rack and was like; hey son, your uniform looks like a Chinese Warloard. I told him about all the new awards that were established after his retirement. Of course in his CSM language, “horeshit!!! all I ever cared about was my CIB, SS and Jump Wings which says enough.” He was authorized 3 stars for his Jump Wings for three insertions inside China 2 DA and one SR, but never attached the stars. The photo shows my dad with his team ‘Antelope’ back row far left. The two Direct Action missions were to blow bridges plus railroad tracks and the Strategic Recon to pinpoint the Japanese Army located somewhere in China. While on the mission he received a message that the war was over and to report back to OSS Hq in India. When he was in his 70’s I sent his OSS paperwork to Bragg and they sent back an order awarding him the Special Forces Tab. When I gave him the orders with the tab attached he started crying. You have to remember that my dad was one bad ass CSM. Soldiers feared him from Majors’ on down. Once while stationed in Munich, Germany as the BDE CSM we went to a BDE picnic. I was sitting at a picnic table with 5 other Enlistedmen and they all had stories about that SOB CSM. All had a worse story than the last but then they noticed that I wasn’t joining in so I was asked which company I was in (I was 17 with short hair) I responded that I was a dependent and the SOB CSM you guys were bad mouthing is my dad. All 5 jumped up covering their name plates and ran away; when I told dad he just laughed so hard there were tears in his eyes. So like my dad, all I care about is my CIB, Special Forces Tab, BS/V and my JM Wings.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 12 at 2018 10:34 PM

2018-09-12T22:34:56-04:00

I agree 100 percent. In the Navy, for the longest time, submariners and seals were the only ones with a warfare device. Then, we were the only ones required to get the devices as they came out with more warfare devices. Now everyone has to get one and it takes away from the specialty of having it.

Response by CPO Clifford Henry made Mar 17 at 2019 4:23 PM

2019-03-17T16:23:38-04:00

I completely agree with everything you’re saying. Towards the end of my career a junior enlisted member coming off of a ship looked like a North Korean general. Everyone expects “end of tour” awards and if not received they get butthurt. Officers get meritorious awards just for being officers. The “everyone gets a trophy” generation is now serving.

Response by SSG James Oliver Nathan Jr made Mar 17 at 2019 4:29 PM

2019-03-17T16:29:32-04:00

Retrain the Soldiers on how to ware the Beret right.

Response by Col Gonzalo Arturo Gutierrez Orozco made Mar 17 at 2019 4:57 PM

2019-03-17T16:57:04-04:00

No is alway's the same thing!!!to be sure we need to investigate!!!!

Response by Col Gonzalo Arturo Gutierrez Orozco made Mar 17 at 2019 4:58 PM

2019-03-17T16:58:21-04:00

Is not the same thing!!!! to be sure we need to investigate!!!

Response by 1SG Dale Cantrell made Mar 17 at 2019 5:01 PM

2019-03-17T17:01:56-04:00

Every body wants to be or look like an 11B Paratrooper, but without the experience or training, give the school awards. No combat please

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2019 5:19 PM

2019-03-17T17:19:33-04:00

I agree on the Black Beret issue, that was a total farce. As for patches and badges those you mentioned are not new only revived. The MP patch and Sapper patch only have changed to new designs or/as the Sapper was an acknowledgement of excellence for Combat Engineers. The MP patch is only a change from the Broussard’s worn by MP’s years ago.
As for the Combat Action Badge it was designed since all of the War on Terror incidents. Many units besides Infantry have been used for various Combat type missions. Combat Engineers, MP’s, Tryck Drivers etc have been used for Convoy missions, cordon and search mission not assigned to Combat units. I had many Combat Support as well as Combat Service Support units whose missions were utilized to on Combat type missions. As such the Combat Action Badge was designed to recognize their actions in combative actions with the enemy. As their CSM and seeing the injuries some suffered from those actions, I don’t see the CAB as a “special award” but more over doing a job not normally assigned to units such as theirs. These Soldiers have exhibited duties above and beyond their specific MOS’s. Bottom line when the shit hits the fan any and all Soldiers become Infantry Soldiers in their duties.
If others in Combat MOS’s feel slighted well that’s their issue, as Soldiers we are called upon to do what ever job as assigned!!

Response by SFC Oddie Brown made Mar 17 at 2019 7:26 PM

2019-03-17T19:26:03-04:00

The pic above must be Rambo "the PX Ranger" special airborne forces recon the decon badass, LOL.

Response by SFC Don Ward made Mar 19 at 2019 10:51 AM

2019-03-19T10:51:00-04:00

You forgot the Basic Training Patch along with their "patching ceremony". I heard a rumour that every graduate of Basic will be getting an AAM also.

Response by CW4 Craig Urban made Mar 19 at 2019 11:01 AM

2019-03-19T11:01:25-04:00

Over compensation for what risking your life. You go where the military sends you. If you are an 11b or 75l. Does not matter.

Response by Sgt William Margeson made Mar 20 at 2019 5:27 PM

2019-03-20T17:27:38-04:00

The wearing of Berets, has been abused by the military when they accepted social engineering by the government. President John Kennedy awarded the Green Beret to Special Forces. Recognizing they were indeed Special. Maroon Berets for Airborne, remains to this day world wide. Black for Rangers started in WW II. When the Army decided to give Black Berets Army Wide, was an insult to Rangers, past and present. ( this writer is a Ranger from the 60's ; at the time I was a member of Marine Force Recon ) When the Black Beret was taken from the Rangers, it was an insult. To compound this insult, the Army decided to issue Tan Berets, the Beret of British SAS, which to me was an insult to SAS. Rangers and SAS have two very different skill sets. End of history lesson. I can only hope that our Brothers on the other side of the Pond, can understand.

Response by SFC George Smith made Apr 21 at 2019 11:53 PM

2019-04-21T23:53:23-04:00

LOL... Its Larry Lunchmeat again...