Initial entry soldiers barely meeting standards; how can we build them up?

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Mar 2014 00:32:51 -0400

More and more soldiers are arriving at their first duty station barely meeting Army standards for pt tests. Is this a product of the anti - hazing climate change in the Army restricting Drill Sergeants from producing better soldier's, or are the volun-told duties lowering the want to produce more capable soldiers? How can we as NCOs build Physically and mentally fit soldier's when the toughening phase in basic is barely better than initial conditioning from the delayed entry program?

Note: Image added by RP staff

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made Mar 20 at 2014 12:40 AM

CSM Michael J. Uhlig — Thu, 20 Mar 2014 00:40:31 -0400

The requirement for graduation is to achieve a 50-50-50 APFT (50 per event) and then it's up to the unit to ensure the Soldier passes their APFT. While in theory it is easy to accomplish (using PRT), it is somewhat challenging for the Squad Leader as the expectation is that the newly arrived Soldier will be able to meet all minimum standards once they graduate OSUT/AIT.

Some of the Soldiers join the military so out of shape it that you wouldn't believe it. I've witnessed Soldiers lose more than 60 pounds during BCT 60 pounds! There were mothers and families that could not recognize their Soldier at BCT graduation. It is difficult to change a lifetime of sedation in a few weeks.

Response by Sgt Packy Flickinger made Oct 17 at 2014 2:36 AM

Sgt Packy Flickinger — Fri, 17 Oct 2014 02:36:59 -0400

I could do 11 pull-ups at entry. 1 week later into boot I could do 3. I was about there all through boot. A few months later after grad I could do 19 by any method.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2015 12:41 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 22 Jan 2015 00:41:19 -0500

Many do not realize what CSM Michael J. Uhlig stated that Soldiers are only required to score 50% in each even in order to graduate BCT.

Another problem with this generation SSG Private RallyPoint Member is that they are too busy sitting on their butts playing video games without any movement in the body other than the thumbs.

This is one reason so many are getting injured and they went to the PRT program to try and reduce the amount of injuries.

The first thing we need to do as Leaders is counsel and explain to these young troops about the importance of staying in shape to prevent injury. We must also lead by example and conduct some smoking fitness sessions with variety. The constant change keeps their interest peaked and motivation level up.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2015 3:05 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 Feb 2015 15:05:12 -0500

SSG Private RallyPoint Member by experience, I think that AIT breaks down all the hard work done in BCT. You go from healthy food, 3 times a day with 0 snacks, not eating from 1700 to 0700, fasting cardio, 3 runs a week, plus all the pushups you do when you messed it up TO pizza weekends, going to the mall and eat whatever you want, lazy PTs in the mornings, snacks at the school, etc. On top of that you have HRAP, Home Recruiting Assistance Program, that's 2 weeks with no PT, eating whatever you want at your hometown. When you get to your first unit station, you have the first week of inprocessing plus most people get PTDY if they are married. So, when you get to your first APFT at your first unit station, the last time that you got an organized PT was more than a month ago and your diet is long forgotten. If the soldier didn't build the discipline to do PT on their own, didn't watch his diet plus have the stress of the new experience, he is against all odds. I think AIT should keep up the hard work done in BCT, with some freedom but watching the physical fitness of the soldiers.

Response by SGT James Elphick made Feb 23 at 2015 3:27 PM

SGT James Elphick — Mon, 23 Feb 2015 15:27:16 -0500

I think Army wide there needs to be a better physical training program. While "hazing" is generally effective for increasing cardio and maybe building some strength, there is no insurance that soldiers are doing the movements correctly. This can lead to poor form which then comes out during APFT's. Also, as far as I can tell, there is little done at the unit level to train NCO's to conduct thorough PT sessions, most of them are either going off what works for them or what their leader did for them. After basic I never once saw PT broken down into soldiers working on the area's they scored lowest in or even much more than a handful of times that it seemed someone put some actual thought into PT. Even in basic PT mostly consisted of running or the entirely pointless Army standard PT (I don't even know what it was called I just know the rear-bend and reach was a stupid exercise).

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 28 at 2018 9:09 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 28 Nov 2018 09:09:14 -0500

Old injured fat guy’s perspective? My cross to bear, here.

We’re getting away from the “tried and true.” It’s not just the Army, it’s cultural. We had this problem during WW1, and we’re talking people who did physical labor and followed a mule behind a plow for hours. The failure in public health was addressed through our legacy PhysEd programs throughout most of the 20th Century, and public health improved.

Has anyone seen modern physical education in most public school systems? It’s sadly lacking. Outdoor play for kids and sports for teens aren’t as popular. A good read to see the attitudes is _Last Child in the Woods_. The money quote? “I like to play indoors, because that’s where the electricity is.” Wow.

Let’s not even discuss latchkey kids being the norm, and “bullish__ in a box” being meal choices for that tired single mom when she gets home. So, we’re starting off at a handicap.

So...what do we as leaders do about it?

Leader engagement. Your chain of command needs to be backing you with time on the training schedule to get them there. NCO’s need *time* to be first line leaders, and need to be experts in PT.
CSM’s are all over this.

I’d recommend that we improve a culture of fitness within the Army, as the civilian culture doesn’t care apart from showing off ripped abs and CrossFit idolatry. Our new CFT, as unwieldy as that sucker is, a start in the right direction.

In Infantry BCT in 1986, it was no more than eight weeks of “meet the APFT, or else.” We has remedial PT in the afternoons and it didn’t kill us. If we’re having that many injuries in the younger recruits, today, then we might need to extend the BCT window to toughen people up. Since I’m not chief of staff, I don’t see that happening.

Team building PT has always helped. You don’t crush a Soldier’s spirit by letting him/her see that they are the weakest link with no hope for redemption, but see that you have to meet the standards of “the family.” This is even harder for RC units, as you have extremely limited time.

Reward performers, and reward IMPROVEMENT. I’m not saying, “here’s your AAM for meeting minimum standards.” I’m saying public recognition for improvement. Being recognized at PT formation, letting that former dud performer lead PT, etc.

Sorry for the rant, but I look at my three kids who are engaged in outdoor play and organized athletics where you can actually win or lose, and look at the soft culture and shake my head.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 28 at 2018 1:17 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 28 Nov 2018 13:17:40 -0500

Introduce a pre-enlistment PT test that will cause the soldier to have to at least have a 60 in each event to ensure they can make in the real army.

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 29 at 2018 7:31 PM

SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 29 Nov 2018 19:31:14 -0500

Starts at home, in school and continues lifelong. Being a soft cream puff comes naturally for everyone. To be solid, fit and ready for physical challenges takes effort. So many youngsters do not get it....it is a lifestyle!!

Response by SPC Korey Kilburn made Nov 29 at 2018 9:03 PM

SPC Korey Kilburn — Thu, 29 Nov 2018 21:03:19 -0500

They need smoked more in Boot. If they come to you at said duty station not fit to pass APFT then put them on remedial PT. Even run PT with them on the weekends. It’s the Army, y’all are 24/7 soldiers. They’ll sure try harder if they start losing their free time to more PT time.