PVT Private RallyPoint Member 3532750 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I recently received and article 15 for peeing in another soldiers shampoo bottle. I used the masterkey to gain access to the room. Im not going to sell my side of the story and myself as a soldier because facts are facts. I got my second reading today and was given maximum punishments for an article 15. My question is my commander said he is thinking about sending it back to jag to see if he can press for confinement or possibly chapter me. Is he allowed to do this after I’ve received my punishment. 2018-04-10T23:55:31-04:00 PVT Private RallyPoint Member 3532750

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I recently received and article 15 for peeing in another soldiers shampoo bottle. I used the masterkey to gain access to the room. Im not going to sell my side of the story and myself as a soldier because facts are facts. I got my second reading today and was given maximum punishments for an article 15. My question is my commander said he is thinking about sending it back to jag to see if he can press for confinement or possibly chapter me. Is he allowed to do this after I’ve received my punishment.

2018-04-10T23:55:31-04:00 2018-04-10T23:55:31-04:00 SGT Eric Davis 3532787

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Yes they can cause you received an article 15 for misconduct and you get can chapter 12 you out. <br /><br />I know I was chaptered out the military and now back in after 7 years. You better go beg to your command cause I was wrongfully admin out but you did you on purpose and a pattern!<br /><br /><br />Answer YES!!

2018-04-11T00:53:22-04:00 2018-04-11T00:53:22-04:00 2LT Private RallyPoint Member 3532797

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>You bet your ass they can. An Article 15 is a non-judicial punishment, which means legal action can still be taken without the worry of a soldier invoking the &quot;double jeopardy&quot; thing. Now, you can contest an Art 15 with a court martial, but in your case I think this would only prove to hurt you. At this point, I would go talk to JAG and get a Trial Defense Services lawyer and run this shit by them. You can fight a chapter more efficiently than you can a Art 15. All I can say for the Art 15 is to suck it up. <br /><br />Long story short, yeah. He can do that.

2018-04-11T01:09:42-04:00 2018-04-11T01:09:42-04:00 1SG Private RallyPoint Member 3532881

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>You&#39;re still in AIT? I&#39;m am very surprised that Ch12 hasn&#39;t been initiated. I knew a couple of AIT classmates that were discharged for way less.<br /><br />If you manage to see your way past this, I hope you tighten your shot group and get your act together

2018-04-11T02:37:16-04:00 2018-04-11T02:37:16-04:00 SSG Christopher Cannon 3532920

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>You violated the trust of your fellow Soldier. Received an Article 15 instead of court-martial or separation I would not be on here complaining I would be thankful I still had a job and that they still thought enough of me to think that I might straighten up and have a future

2018-04-11T04:10:38-04:00 2018-04-11T04:10:38-04:00 SGT Private RallyPoint Member 3533084

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>If punishment has not been given yet then yes he can send it back to ask for more sever action.

2018-04-11T06:49:15-04:00 2018-04-11T06:49:15-04:00 1SG Dennis Hicks 3533144

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>You should be thankful your not on the ride home, since your not even in a unit yet you should just concern yourself with what is actually happening and not some real or imagined issues that have not jelled yet. On a side note in the old days if you had done that getting UCMJ action would be the least of your worries. You should just concern yourself with doing your job, and pray that this behavior never gets reported, or passed along to your gaining unit. Many of us have done some truly stupid things in our careers but you really need to think about your proportional response to someones phuckery before going the route that will close career doors to you.

2018-04-11T07:13:52-04:00 2018-04-11T07:13:52-04:00 1SG Private RallyPoint Member 3533257

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>The thing about an A-15 is that it is essentially pleading guilty to a charge or charges in exchange for non-judicial (ie not a court marshal) punishment. Sort of the Army equivalent of a traffic ticket. You may have committed crime(s), but rather than have all the trouble and work of a trial, you plead guilty and can receive punishments up to a certain amount based on the level (company vs field) of convening authority.<br />In the case of the specifications on the A-15, the commander can not generally go back after the fact and punish you more because after you plead guilty, he decides that it should be punished more. However, that doesn&#39;t preclude charges that WEREN&#39;T included on the original specifications for being brought.<br />Like what might be happening in your case.<br />When you first told the story in another thread, you put forth the notion that this was a retaliatory strike between joes that got a bit out of hand and was brought to the attention of the CoC. What you did not mention was that you somehow laid hold of the master key and breached a lock in order to do the deed. That sounds an awful lot like Article 129, Burglary or more likely, Article 130, Housebreaking. The Army takes that kind of thing pretty seriously.<br />If you haven&#39;t done so already, you need an Army lawyer for this one. They could come down hard on you. A chapter is a real possibility. So is more than that. Punishments for an A-130 are up to five years of confinement and a BCD.

2018-04-11T08:10:13-04:00 2018-04-11T08:10:13-04:00 Capt Daniel Goodman 3533268

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I quite honestly don&#39;t even know what to say to that...to illustrate, I hadn&#39;t finished an Army ROTC program I&#39;d been in, I was given another chance to go USAF OTS, I had to go through the program twice to finish...I bollixed up more times than I can even possibly recall, more times than I can even count, at this point, I got in more nerves sometimes than I can even remember, though obviously never with anything like that...I once sat with the CO of my unit, an O-6 who&#39;d been picked for O-7, hough he hadn&#39;t pinned on at that point, a Vietnam war hero who&#39;d flown, I&#39;d learned later on, some 150 combat missions as an O-2 forward air controller (FAC) pilot, he&#39;d given me, amazingly, earlier that sa!e day, a certificate for helping with a good IG rating, something I&#39;d never expected, candidly, after having bollixed up almost beyond comprehension...by the time he was done with me, I left the room a limp dishrag...I also bollixed up I can&#39;t even recall how many, many times, with very senior civil servants, senior officers, I can&#39;t even begin to tell you...that I survived it all, quite candidly, as I reflect back on the !after, was, also quite candidly, at least to me, a veritable gift from God, in retrospect...I&#39;ve heard of a lot of things, seen a lot of things...once, when I&#39;d been picking up mail at an enlisted barracks where our mailroom was, I&#39;d been leaving, when a somewhat boisterous SrA had an open beer in his hand in a parking lot outside, yakking with a couple of more senior NCOs also staying in that same barracks...as the Sr A was yelling across the parking lot, calling out to friends, with his fagptigue shirt open, holding that open beer, I just turned and stared...and stared...and stared...till both senior NCOs got the message, and calmed down the SrA, telling him to pose the beer can, and close his shirt...hat was the one and onoy time I&#39;d had to do that...one other day, I&#39;d been with the base commander for a day, there was a program for new Lts to be allowed to do that...we&#39;d been driving in his staff car, when we got to the command bldg for a briefing...he Col, who&#39;d been most gracious, despite my many gaffes, despite my best efforts, saw a new young airman leaving the command bldg with something wrong with his uniform...he called out, as I stood there watching, &quot;Young man...&quot;, I was always struck in retrospect by how he did it, and correct him, I obviously said nothing,, he young airman saluted, and we went into the bldg....<br /><br />Now here&#39;s my point, OK? There are stunts, and there are stunts....some are in good taste, some are in questionable taste, and some are obviously in.no taste whatsoever...I think you quite obviously by now seem to perceive where yours lies along that spectrum, apparemtly....<br /><br />My adive to you is to very profoundly and sincerely apologize, to alp concerned, least of alp your colleague...I&#39;m sure you must have someone representing you, if not, of seek out advice, I&#39;d know of attorneys in USAF when I&#39;d been in, I dont know if anything exists in Army now, called area defense counsels (ADCs)_ essentially they were the analogue of public defenders, that said, I dont know if such things exist in Army, I don&#39;t even know if USAF still has them....if such things do still exist, I&#39;d seen their advice, possibly the advice of a chaplain also, though, of course, only you can judge if that&#39;d be at all suitable, certainly....<br /><br />A written apology can often go a long way...I&#39;m not saying it&#39;d ne suitable in such a case, I merely !mention that the idea occurred to me, that:s all, honest, either that, or a public apology to your unit as a whole, if such could even ne allowed, I dont know the protocol in such an instance, certainly an apology to your COs and NCOs, pet alone your colleague...<br /><br />I learned a long time ago that the svcs will generally give just about anyone a chance, possibly two, maybe three, after that, one burns one&#39;s bridges...believe me, in that world, burning one&#39;s bridges dogs one for the rest of one&#39;s life, there&#39;s no way around that, it:s recorded forever, one always has to recount it to virtually everyone forever, friends, family, loved ones, employers, everyone, it never ends, it never, ever goes away...ever...that rule, I assure you, that you can take as both an adage, as well as Gospel, honest...<br /><br />You need to straighten up and fly right, ASAP PDQ...you need to make abundantly clear, in no uncertain terms to all concerned, that you entirely understand, the at you&#39;re genuinely contrite, and that you genuinely regret it...genuine contrition can generally be perceived by perceptive minds...fake contrition can also ne equally perceived, correspondingly....<br /><br />I saw many other instances of gauche behavior, I witnessed the consequences of such gauche behavior to those who&#39;d engaged in it...believe what I tell you, trust what I tell you, as I only say it to held you, not further castigate you...when you wear that uniform, you&#39;re a public servant, no different than an elected official, held to a higher standard, as is commonly articulated, all the more as you participate in that world of your own volition...youre judged by your actions, and your conduct...your every word, every motion, is quite literally under microscopic scrutiny at virtually all times, believe me, I know, I assure you, been there, done that (BTDT)....<br /><br />What is to be done, you have little or no control over...what is to be done, will ne done purely as a matter of procedure, and nothing you can say, think, or do, is likely to change it...so, as I&#39;d said, my best suggestion, is to quite simply grow up, ASAP, PDQ, straighten up, and fly right...I&#39;d read somewhere, a pong while back, that the work of the svcs is hard enough without needing to tolerate tomfoolery, or words to that effect, no one in the svcs has time for it, no one in the svcs needs or wants such distracting sources of aggravation...I nearly got sent home from USAF OTS, I was lucky to have been recycled, very, very !ucky...I needed a long, long time to even remotely learn how to function even remotely properly in the role, and to know what was expected of me...now you need to learn what is expected of you, OK? So, if i telp you app those things, please understand, as I&#39;d said, my object is only to help you kaoe that adjustment, not, as I&#39;d said, to castigate you further...I dont know what more I can suggest to you, other than to realize that you don&#39;t own that uniform, you&#39;re allowed to borrow it, based on your demeanor and good behavior...so, my sincer advice to you is, learn how to earn it, OK? Trust me apologize in a sincere, heartfelt way, accept what is to ne done, as you can&#39;t change it, and protesting would, at least to my mind, only exacerbate your problem...if it&#39;s gonna be, it&#39;s gonna be, and that:s just all here is to it, OK? I hope that helps to at least some extent, honest, OK?

2018-04-11T08:19:50-04:00 2018-04-11T08:19:50-04:00 SPC David Willis 3533378

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Holy cow is this the situation where he pranked you and you over pranked him back? Was this honestly your first screw up or have you garnered a lot of attention throughout basic? It seems like a massive over reaction to not only max your AR-15, but push for more punishment. Although you are in AIT and I&#39;m guessing the rules are more strict there.

2018-04-11T09:05:15-04:00 2018-04-11T09:05:15-04:00 SSgt Dan Montague 3533381

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>all aside the BS you pulled, no he cannot push for more punishment. Once you have received your punishment, the case is closed.

2018-04-11T09:06:24-04:00 2018-04-11T09:06:24-04:00 CSM Richard StCyr 3533632

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>For incidents of serious misconduct the commander can seek courts martial for actions already covered through NJP Art 15 action. Grab a copy of the manual for courts martial at the library, it&#39;s very bland but enlightening reading.<br /><br />In my experience this only happens when further serious wrong doing tied to the action that generated the UCMJ Art 15 is uncovered later. IE: Drunken Soldier makes an ass of themselves being disrespectful, gets Field Grade ART 15, later it comes out Drunken Soldier sexually assaulted another drunken and passed out Soldier same night and place as the Disrespect incident. The lesser offense of disrespect already handled by NJP was rolled back up into summary courts martial as a lesser charge. Does peeing in someone&#39;s shampoo bottle rise to that level of &quot;Serious&quot; offense, that&#39;s the Commander and their JAG reps decision. Again this leaves me wondering what came out during the proceedings that have the commander second guessing the level of punishment chosen or if they are trying to put the &quot;fear of God&quot; in you...<br /><br />As far as chapter action to have you removed from service, again that&#39;s entirely the Commanders choice to recommend you for discharge and they are well within their authority to do so.

2018-04-11T10:24:02-04:00 2018-04-11T10:24:02-04:00 SSG (ret) William Martin 3533708

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Did the commander send a sample of the urine contaminated shampoo to a state or federal crime lab? If not, your punishment is not valid. Just kidding. They can&#39;t &quot;officially&quot; punish you anymore than they already have. If there are some crap details that arise they might select since you will be best among your peers.

2018-04-11T10:50:32-04:00 2018-04-11T10:50:32-04:00 SGM Bill Frazer 3535064

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Ditto what MAJ Z, said in my time would be healing for awhile!

2018-04-11T17:37:03-04:00 2018-04-11T17:37:03-04:00 Kim Bolen RN CCM ACM 3535454

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Yes

2018-04-11T19:36:28-04:00 2018-04-11T19:36:28-04:00 PV2 Private RallyPoint Member 3535770

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>It’s soldiers like you that made basic and ait terrible. If someone cant trust you with their shampoo bottle, how can anyone trust you down range?

2018-04-11T21:49:13-04:00 2018-04-11T21:49:13-04:00 COL Private RallyPoint Member 3535843

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Once it’s been red and you are doing your punishment that it it. He can’t add confinement. At the company level that is not an option. He can however, use the article 15 as a basis for a chapter. If he wanted to add confinement he should have done a summary courts marshal. Chapter is still on the table as a separate action.

2018-04-11T22:20:53-04:00 2018-04-11T22:20:53-04:00 SPC Private RallyPoint Member 3535975

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Nah you good , it&#39;s a dumb mistake but don&#39;t trip , if they do try and chapter you just go up your chain of command using open door policy and plead your case

2018-04-11T23:37:58-04:00 2018-04-11T23:37:58-04:00 MSG Private RallyPoint Member 3540729

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I&#39;ve nothing to add but once all is said and done you&#39;ve GOT TO give us the rest of the story.

2018-04-13T16:00:52-04:00 2018-04-13T16:00:52-04:00 SSgt Boyd Herrst 3631237

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Does he think you may be a flight risk or just to use it to teach you a lesson about actions having consequences?

2018-05-15T20:26:30-04:00 2018-05-15T20:26:30-04:00 SSgt Boyd Herrst 3631264

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I’m back.. I didn’t know your duty status when I made my first comment.. but that’s irrelevent.. whatever your status.. <br />you are most fortunate you didn’t wind up in a acute care ward of a hospital... after your platoon mates made an example of you... maybe that would have been better.... Even if you don’t get chaptered out.. don’t look forward to re-upping unless you can do a 180• ..and walk the straight and narrow (very narrow)..

2018-05-15T20:39:22-04:00 2018-05-15T20:39:22-04:00 CPT Private RallyPoint Member 3634045

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>If you are in AIT, a Chapter may be possible; but I&#39;m not sure since TRADOC operates on a different set of rules. What do you mean by confinement? A Company Commander can &#39;confine&#39; a Soldier by revoking off post pass privileges or limiting you to the barracks and essential areas on post. This is not technically a punishment because the commander is invoking conditions on liberty. Confinement to the Brig is a different story. <br /><br />Confinement is extremely unlikely unless you have shown yourself to be a habitual offender and dangerous to yourself or others. Confinement is a type of punishment, that&#39;s why Soldiers who have been confined get reduced sentences/punishment. I have only seen the possibility of confinement proposed prior to a General Court Martial because the Soldier continuously defied orders and was assessed to be a flight risk.

2018-05-16T18:18:49-04:00 2018-05-16T18:18:49-04:00 LT Terry Lober 4199822

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>No. Navy regulations are clear. I was a Navy JAG. I was the SJA to CNFC and was IMC&#39;ed to a sailor in San Diego that had a shipboard AR15. Then the CO referred him to a SPCM. I made a motion to dismiss and it was bv granted.Double Jepardy.

2018-12-11T11:57:56-05:00 2018-12-11T11:57:56-05:00 LT Terry Lober 4245091

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Yes. An art 15 is a NJP. It is a punishment, with appeal rights etc. An Administrative Seperation is exactly that, an administrative action, not a punishment under the UCMJ.

2018-12-29T21:01:14-05:00 2018-12-29T21:01:14-05:00 CSM Darieus ZaGara 4245911

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>He cannot add to the punishment, but a chapter is absolutely an option for the command.

2018-12-30T10:18:53-05:00 2018-12-30T10:18:53-05:00 1SG Private RallyPoint Member 4246095

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Yes, and likely should considering the acts.

2018-12-30T11:28:35-05:00 2018-12-30T11:28:35-05:00 PVT Private RallyPoint Member 4247133

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Update: I was called into my plt sgts. Office. He looked at me and said the commander would chapter me if the plt sgt. Recommended it. We have a 5 minute conversation and he said he would decide sometime that week. Without my knowledge he emailed some colleagues whom I had graduated with. I was a hold. I had no idea he was doing this as my colleagues did not tell me. He called me into his office a couple days later and said close the door. I will never forget this. My plt sgt. said, “ My grandpa died of colon cancer. My dad died in 2008 from cancer. I have been diagnosed with terminal cancer... if you fuck me over. I have nothing to lose. I will find you. And I will fuck you up. Now get out of my office.” I got a company grade article 15 and they sent me on my way.

2018-12-30T19:32:04-05:00 2018-12-30T19:32:04-05:00 CSM Darieus ZaGara 4617557

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>The Commander can ask JAG anything they want to. Whether they advise for or against will be based on the interpretation of the regulations. Good luck.

2019-05-09T05:43:24-04:00 2019-05-09T05:43:24-04:00 CSM Darieus ZaGara 4617559

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Has the AR been adjudicated?

2019-05-09T05:44:36-04:00 2019-05-09T05:44:36-04:00 CPT William Jones 5818993

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>If you were charged and accepted charges and punishment laid out that part of the incident is over. However from the little you stated I can see two charges that are facts. 1Misuse of master key something can be done with that. 2 you damaged another&#39;s property. Actually I see three 3. you trespassed ie entered another&#39;s area without permission. If you were not charged with any of these items you can still be.

2020-04-26T13:35:28-04:00 2020-04-26T13:35:28-04:00 CPT William Jones 6432174

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I do not think so but that is what jag is for

2020-10-23T17:12:23-04:00 2020-10-23T17:12:23-04:00 SPC Private RallyPoint Member 6438683

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Not sure about the confinement issue, but you can be administratively separated after completion of your punishment.

2020-10-25T22:39:23-04:00 2020-10-25T22:39:23-04:00 2018-04-10T23:55:31-04:00