Is a mustache unprofessional even if within regs??

2014-01-17T15:21:33-05:00

I've recently been made aware that it's considered unprofessional for an officer to even have a mustache, regardless of whether or not it's within regulations.<br><br>Where did that come from?  I have some serious heartburn with it.  As long as my mustache conforms to 670-1 and I'm not trying to push the envelope with it, I should be able to have one.  I really don't see it as unprofessional or getting in the way of my doing my job to the best of my ability.<br><br>

Response by 1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2014 3:53 PM

2014-01-17T15:53:11-05:00

Chief, if anybody busts your chops, just bring up this guy:

Badass of the Week: Lewis Millett

The ultimate list of all badasses past and present.

Response by PO2 Jeff Jackelen made Jan 17 at 2014 8:12 PM

2014-01-17T20:12:32-05:00

I hear you, that was my 'most usual bust' at inspections. Talk about splitting hairs. The older vets told me "peacetime" Navy is a bitch. I believe its wrong. andthen there were sideburns...

Response by PO2 Jeff Jackelen made Jan 17 at 2014 8:21 PM

2014-01-17T20:21:01-05:00

Don't keep up with whats currently happening there, these days; other than the returning Vet getting hosed, left and right. In more ways than a few, I and me ship mates got away with 'murder'....but to nitpick really ticked us off. Me and my guys smoked pot pertnear religiously. We were port and starboard, for 30+ days. But buy the grace of God, or because we knew what we were doing, we were awarded the first "greenC" in excellence in communications. THIS told me many things of those that wielded the power of 'bullshit', other than the Gov't at large. Better get off my soapbox....luck to you

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2014 8:23 PM

2014-01-17T20:23:08-05:00

Sir - I have had a mustache since I graduated basic training. Most of my career it has never been an issue. I have run into some that saw it as unprofessional. I only shave it for my DA photo (because of the unprofessional perception by some) and once during a deployment to break up the monotony in the unit. I have found that even when it is in regs some try to look extra hard because they believe that it must be out of regs.

I had a Warrant Officer on rear d that had a mustache and he always kept it trimmed. After rear d disbanded he went to another BN where his BN CDR told him he could not have a mustache because they were unprofessional. I also had a BN CDR comment one day when I shaved for my DA photo. He said "Oh you are finally being a Soldier" I quickly told him a mustache doesn't define me being a Soldier. He quickly replied that I was correct and he walked away.

One piece of advice is to make sure you keep it well within regulation. The reg states is cannot be bushy so I always trim mine at number 3 which keeps it pretty short. I make sure the ends are well inside the corners of my mouth and make sure there is at least an 1/8 of an inch of skin from my lip to the bottom of my mustache.

I honestly believe some feel it is unprofessional because they are not used to seeing them. Keep the mustache in regs Sir and be a professional.

Response by Lt Col Luis A. Rojas made Jan 17 at 2014 8:54 PM

2014-01-17T20:54:25-05:00

If it looks professional and within regs, it is okay. I'm not sure where it came from, but as far as I know, it is one of those unwritten rules. I have been in a lot of units that will do "Mustache March" which is basically everyone that wants to will grow a mustache within regs during the month of March.

Response by MAJ Joseph Parker made Jan 18 at 2014 1:30 AM

2014-01-18T01:30:28-05:00

Chief: First, be careful not to confuse professionalism and following regulations. Everybody has to do the latter. The way you perform as a service member is the former.

A true military professional officer has performance, conduct, standards, and appearance that sets an example for subordinates. If you want a mustache and look good with it...do it! If it looks like crap, do yourself a favor and shave. There is nothing unprofessional about an officer with mustache; unless it's an untidy, crappy mustache! NOTE: This only applies to garrison. Outside the wire: fear the beard.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2014 1:34 AM

2014-01-18T01:34:49-05:00

I remember many guys who looked like Hitler with their small mustaches. No bad feelings towards them but it was not for me.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2014 4:21 PM

2014-01-18T16:21:50-05:00

I had the same initial reaction when I was told that a few years ago. Situation was that one of my S-shop OICs shook his head after one of our prior-enlisted PLs passed by him. I asked him what was wrong; he told me that officers don't sport mustaches.

I think it's a commissioned Army subculture thing. Like the whole deal with first names and a lot of lieutenants not saluting each other. Maybe it's even that the mustache is considered an enlisted thing? Who knows. I just know that I'll steer clear of the flavor saver in an effort to not stand out for something other than my achievements; which will indirectly support that norm.

Response by SPC Dave St.Andrew made Jan 19 at 2014 6:08 PM

2014-01-19T18:08:42-05:00

Our SGM wouldn't even allow mustaches..Period. A whole platoon in my company had mustached while we were deployed, SGM made them shave them off, only to have them grow them back as soon as SGM left our COP. I was made to shave mine while at JRTC before flying home because "SGM won't let you on the plane with that".

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2014 10:23 PM

2014-01-29T22:23:36-05:00

If it's within regulation - should not be an issue. I have also always heard that you need to shave it for DA photos…not because it is against regulations…just because it's more 'professional' looking. Not sure where that came from - but why take the chance of having someone use that as a discriminator…even though they technically cannot.

Response by CW2(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2014 8:08 PM

2014-01-30T20:08:59-05:00

Adding to an Army Regulation in MOST cases is taking away from the regulation of topic. Its an Army Regulation for a reason with no asterisk or fine print saying "This is the minimum standard". Now, IF you all were tasked to conduct an upcoming mission and the 'mustache' would hinder performance or counter act progress for a successful mission, then I can see where being 'ordered' to shave is necessary. Just because the officer corps deem having a mustache "unprofessional" doesn't mean they can just throw an AR out of relevance without valid reason: i.e.: "The SGM won't let you on the plane with that." or "That's not an officer thing." But again, mission dictates.

Response by SrA Daniel Hunter made Jan 31 at 2014 9:00 PM

2014-01-31T21:00:23-05:00

Personally I think facial hair of any level, mustache or full beard, can look professional. It is however more important that the NBC respirator seal properly.

Response by CW4 Peter McHugh made Mar 4 at 2016 11:03 AM

2016-03-04T11:03:20-05:00

Takes a mustache, even a bit droopier than 670-1 permits, to be an Aviator Warrant...take a look at the Army Viet Nam era pilot?

Response by CW2 Fred Baker made Mar 15 at 2016 4:20 PM

2016-03-15T16:20:12-04:00

I couldn't grow a decent one, but I've seen some beauties when I served. The best was a real bushy outside the regs red one on a deceased chopper pilot at the crash site. I always wondered if those in charge would have anything to say about it then.

Response by ENS Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2016 1:12 PM

2016-09-21T13:12:49-04:00

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member I think this is a great topic to bring up; in fact I'd like to try to get it some more attention. I've only ever seen one Officer with a mustache, O10 Admiral Swift. His mustache is iconic and very professional in appearance. I am not sure how a mustache would affect a Junior Officer, however it seems when you are a Senior Officer or a Flag Officer, you get a bit more leeway when it comes to personal appearance, such as growing a mustache. Now, as far as mustaches go for Warrant Officers, I can only speak in regards to Navy Warrant Officers. Like many things in the Navy, our E7s and CWOs are very different. To become a Warrant Officer, the service member must have served at least 14 years as an enlisted man and have been eligible for E7 (in most cases, ARE an E7). Chief's wear mustaches. Plain and simple. I feel you are more apt to find a mustache in the Navy than in many other services. The Navy has always been the rebel branch if you as me. ;)

Response by COL Mikel J. Burroughs made Sep 21 at 2016 1:31 PM

2016-09-21T13:31:17-04:00

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member Back in my day it was a discriminator for sure. That is why in between official military photographs I shaved mine off and then it let it grow back afterwards

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Sep 21 at 2016 2:13 PM

2016-09-21T14:13:12-04:00

The moustache thing is cyclic, it ebs and flows. When I first came in officers and NCOs had the walrus stache going on, then it was deemed unprofessional in the mid 80s and came back in the 90s if maintained to standard, was frowned on again until the GWOT. Mine always came in thick in the center so no matter how I trimmed it, I looked like Hitler so just gave up. You just have to decide if its worth going against the norm.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Sep 21 at 2016 6:16 PM

2016-09-21T18:16:11-04:00

There is some eye of the beholder issues with a mustache. In official photos the compliance with standards is always subjective. Many officers in my day simply avoided the problem by being clean shaven in photos the promotion board would see.

Response by Maj Marty Hogan made Sep 22 at 2016 12:13 AM

2016-09-22T00:13:23-04:00

I think it only makes you more prone to the creeper or pedophile stereotype. In all seriousness- have never heard that before

Response by 2LT David Phillips made Sep 22 at 2016 1:02 PM

2016-09-22T13:02:56-04:00

Count how many O-4's and up have mustaches, in the next two weeks. And you have your answer... It's not "unprofessional" as much as it is "un-promotable". The brass do not like facial hair, for the most part. Which is a large part of why I have facial hair now... hehe... FREEDOM!!! Hope this helps.

Response by SSG Wally Lawver made Sep 22 at 2016 1:03 PM

2016-09-22T13:03:58-04:00

hell no

Response by TSgt Jim Gregg made Sep 22 at 2016 5:18 PM

2016-09-22T17:18:33-04:00

Mustaches can look professional, but the military standards make that harder. No hair over the lip and having to extend only to crease between the lips means that pencil mustaches or those that remind people of Hitler are the norm.

Response by SSG Tom Pike made Sep 29 at 2016 12:30 PM

2016-09-29T12:30:31-04:00

I started growing a mustache the day I left Basic Training in November 1982. Still have one. Shaved it off twice in the intervening years, both times for women who immediately told me to grow it back. Only time a comment was made on my mustache was when I went before my E-6 promotion board. The CSM complemented me on being able to wear a mustache within regulations and said I should show everyone else in the unit how to trim a mustache.

But I got out after 6 1/2 years and never had an official DA photo taken (which would have been required for E-7 promotion) Most of the people I worked with that had a DA photo taken shaved their mustache off just so it was one less thing reviewers could gig you on.

Response by PO1 Bobby Powell made Sep 29 at 2016 12:44 PM

2016-09-29T12:44:53-04:00

Personally I have zero problem with any man growing a mustache regardless of rank as long as it is within prescribed standards. Professionally, I know some bits of gear are not as functional when wearing a mustache such as a diver's mask. But if the swimmer can still preform their mission, I see no issue with it.
I am not being mean spirited with this next comment nor am I trying to be funny. Equal opportunity for women is such a contentious subject these days and growing facial hair may become another one. Currently, I do not believe there is a standard for women and mustaches. I expect that it must be the same as for men. And yes, I know of several women who wear them now.

Response by SPC Byron Skinner made Sep 29 at 2016 3:10 PM

2016-09-29T15:10:11-04:00

Sp4 Byron Skinner…A mustache in garrison in CONUS, naw. The current military has a uniformed look to it. I don't much care for it but its not my call…In combat thats a different thing. In Vietnam ha had a full Fu Man Chu, looked something like the current WWWF. It had a purpose, when we suspected or knew there was an ambush just up the trail or road kids naturally want to be near the excitement. Just before the shooting started I Would jump in front of the kids and make the ugliest face I could and they ran in the opposite direction, then she shooting started. Our Platoon in the time I was there never injured a child, also the facial hair didn't hurt as we charged into the 10 meter kill zone. The more aggressive you look going at the enemy in "intimate" combat" the better chance you have of coming out with only a ding or two and you buries don't have to carry out a body bag.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 29 at 2016 4:00 PM

2016-09-29T16:00:41-04:00

Can't judge a man by the color of his skin, but, by God you can judge him by some hair that grows naturally under his nose? Hmmmm, not getting the connection.
Been rocking mine for 27 years.

Response by MSG Dan Castaneda made Sep 30 at 2016 2:07 PM

2016-09-30T14:07:54-04:00

Unprofessional, No. Gross, Yes.

Response by CDR Dan Campbell made Oct 3 at 2016 8:29 AM

2016-10-03T08:29:01-04:00

I had a moustache when I enlisted in the Navy in 1974, and then I grew it back after boot camp. Of course, this was WAY back in the days of beards, etc. as acceptable. I shaved my moustache off only once in the ensuring 29 years plus and that was on a boomer patrol out of Holy Loch and kept it until I retired as a commander in 2003. My kids cried when they saw the picture of my shaved upper lip as they didn't recognize me. Honestly, I think the Navy is (or at least was) the most liberal when it comes to facial hair. After retiring I worked with a retired Army MG and colonels, and they were insistent that moustaches were not acceptable for officers on active duty--not that any of them grew a moustache after retiring.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2016 1:20 PM

2016-10-13T13:20:12-04:00

Personally I stayed away from having one b/c the regulation for one was too strict...you couldn't grow it the way you wanted to....couldn't be beyond the edges of your mouth...can't be bushy looking etc...so I just stayed away from it altogether...I think the arguement most people bring up is other Armies do it... so why can't we etc etc etc...then we get into the whole NBC Mask thing...that Sheik can have a full faced beard why not I??? etc etc etc...Garrison vs Field environments etc etc etc...I just didn't want to deal with the baloney...Keep it short and shaved everyday...

Response by SFC Louis Willhauck, MSM, JSCM, and ARCOM made Oct 14 at 2016 8:31 AM

2016-10-14T08:31:14-04:00

Yeah, another one of those overworked nonsense words..."professional"... I call them inventions for the unenlightened and ill informed! Long hair went away because it was too easy to grab in hand-to-hand, most facial hair went away because a gas mask won't seal over a beard and a long moustache shoots up the nose inside a mask... there are valid reasons for things and then there are the total nonsense blather that has developed to replace reason... I really wish people could tell the difference!

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2018 8:59 AM

2018-08-02T08:59:21-04:00

Plainly stated....no.

Response by SFC Raymond Burge made Dec 28 at 2018 2:21 AM

2018-12-28T02:21:05-05:00

I had one my entire 24 year career. Alot of my leaders hated it. When I was out processing for retirement, I had a CSM stop in his tracks get in my face and say "Nice F@&_-ing stache" in the loudest sarcastic voice he could. I replied "F-@&$-ing Thanks CSM". He was livid....

Response by SFC Melvin Brandenburg made Jun 29 at 2019 1:38 PM

2019-06-29T13:38:12-04:00

I think there are bigger fish to fry than worry about my stache.

Response by SFC Melvin Brandenburg made Feb 3 at 2020 2:15 PM

2020-02-03T14:15:32-05:00

Once upon a time, a mustache was an indication of being a military man.

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 16 at 2020 2:01 PM

2020-04-16T14:01:14-04:00

They are not, insecure weaklings just can't handle them because they feel intimidated by traditional assertions of manliness.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2020 11:17 AM

2020-06-18T11:17:41-04:00

I'm going to respond to this with similar same words I commented on another thread about professionalism:
I will say that a LOT of things have been labeled "unprofessional" in the last 10-15 years. It seems like half the Army mid level leaders are clutching their pearls. It is almost an unhealthy obsession. Some of these things have even found their way into regulation.

I won't say do not listen to your leadership. The term "Choose Your Battles" gets used often, along with "drink the Koolaid" (I despise this last expression because I remember it's source).
I think the point is that just because someone dislikes something, especially our leadership, it doesn't mean we've actually done anything wrong. While you're serving under them you will have to play by their rules, however it should not imply that you've done anything wrong.
I would consider what actually brings discredit to the uniform.

Response by LCDR Joshua Gillespie made Jun 18 at 2020 1:27 PM

2020-06-18T13:27:50-04:00

I think when we get into these sort of topics, we're un-casing the "unofficial" rule books. In the Navy, there are times when regulation mustaches are not only considered "professional"... but even "traditional". Aviators routinely grow one when they go out to get their trap quals, and it "used to be" traditional to grow facial hair on a submarine during deployment (though I suspect that's changed). That said, my own experience was that you RARELY saw one on any officer who was not a "mustang", and even then-rarely among JOs. Some may disagree with me, but personally... I always felt that if you saw an O-4 rocking the 'stache anywhere in the Surface Line...he was probably a former Chief, and probably in Deck or Engineering department. It seemed people who were being "groomed" for flag officer stayed very clean shaven; the one exception being a prior enlisted O-6 and Academy grad I knew who wore his grey hair and mustache with pride... right into getting his star.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2020 1:36 PM

2020-06-18T13:36:37-04:00

Leave it to a Warrant Officer to ask this question. Haha

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2020 1:39 PM

2020-08-16T13:39:49-04:00

I've been frustrated by the gate mustaches get since joining. Commanders and NCOs will go completely out of their way to do harm to young soldiers careers for simply sporting some AUTHORIZED facial hair on their upper lip. If that's not toxic I don't know what is. It's a quick indicator to me of what kind of leadership is around. Those who condone usually have decent priorities and higher unit morale. The obsession with punishing mustache wearers is usually an indication of much deeper command problems