Is a Soldier who is Pathfinder qualified, without being Airborne or Air Assault qualified, frowned upon?

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 26 May 2015 22:35:05 -0400

Response by SGM Matthew Quick made May 26 at 2015 10:56 PM

SGM Matthew Quick — Tue, 26 May 2015 22:56:57 -0400

Why would this person be frowned upon?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 26 at 2015 11:13 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 26 May 2015 23:13:59 -0400

Having that school alone puts you in a league by itself. does it really matter what others think? The only person it should matter to is the guy looking back in the mirror when you shave.

Response by COL Charles Williams made May 27 at 2015 12:27 AM

COL Charles Williams — Wed, 27 May 2015 00:27:35 -0400

Why do you care? Pathfinder is a very small group. If AA or ABN is not a prerequisite, what does it matter? upon.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 27 at 2015 12:42 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 May 2015 00:42:14 -0400

I would ask the question of how they achieved Pathfinder graduation without being Airborne or Air Assault Qualified. The two primary locations that teach Pathfinder School are Fort Benning and Fort Campbell. At Fort Benning, it is advanced Airborne operations with some advanced Air Assault operations thrown in there, and yes you do jump. At Fort Campbell, it is advanced Air Assault operations with some advanced Airborne operations thrown in there, if aircraft are available you jump but not always. I don't know how one got their torch without first achieving the basic standard in operations that feed into Pathfinder.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 27 at 2015 7:34 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 May 2015 07:34:38 -0400

Anyone who has the (certified) PF badge gets kudos from me, regardless of no AA or AB status

Response by SSG Christopher Freeman made May 27 at 2015 8:20 AM

SSG Christopher Freeman — Wed, 27 May 2015 08:20:06 -0400

Not in the slightest. If anything it reflects higher upon them because aaslt and jumpmaster can help you in pathfinder

Response by SFC Maury Gonzalez made May 27 at 2015 8:25 AM

SFC Maury Gonzalez — Wed, 27 May 2015 08:25:33 -0400

Not really, just like leg rangers don't get frowned upon

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 27 at 2015 8:23 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 May 2015 08:23:56 -0400

To be humbly honest no it should not be frowned upon. Being Air Assault qualified myself I know the challenges I had to overcome to earn my wings, at the same time to each his or her own. Each school has its challenges. Over coming fear to jump out of a plane, repel from a helicopter etc. No matter anyone's opinion the fact remains each school has its challenges and not one school can be deemed better or worse.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 27 at 2015 8:27 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 May 2015 08:27:12 -0400

Having a badge or a TAB sets you apart from your peers however having them and not employing your skills in a unit or current assignment is a bit frowned up on DA Boards.. gives the apearance that your badge hunting and not necessarily willing to employee your skills in combat on doctroninally

Response by CW3 Scott Castlen made May 27 at 2015 8:41 AM

CW3 Scott Castlen — Wed, 27 May 2015 08:41:55 -0400

Going to a military school usually arms a soldier with an additional skill set, or responsibility. It shouldn't be viewed as adding flair to ones uniform.

If you go to a school just for the badge and you never apply or use the skill, then it's a waste of time and tax payer money.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made May 27 at 2015 8:53 AM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 May 2015 08:53:55 -0400

I don't think so. Pathfinder is a very challenging school, which requires twice the amount of attention to detail than Air Assault School and Airborne requires. I would rather be a Pathfinder than Air Assault Qualified, but they only give out Pathfinder slots to units who require Pathfinders, so it's become a badge protector school now.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 27 at 2015 9:09 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 May 2015 09:09:38 -0400

In my class, the non-airborne got a joked on a couple times and they had to help carry chutes off the drop zone. This was because the course was at Benning. There was no harassment or hints of them not being any more worthy than anyone else. As others have pointed out, Pathfinder School is unique in the level of DZ and LZ operations they teach. You should attempt to get the badges that will make you better at your job and set you up for jobs you want. There are some jobs that you may need multiple badges to excel (airborne infantry) but others where it Pathfinder will serve you nicely by itself (air traffic controller). Do not worry about what others think.

Response by CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 27 at 2015 9:11 AM

CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 May 2015 09:11:37 -0400

My old 1SG here at 101 wasn't AA or abn, but had pathfinder. I don't think anyone ever even mentioned it. Didn't matter. He was beat up though and had a reason not to go to AA school

Response by SFC Bryan Reed made May 27 at 2015 9:10 AM

SFC Bryan Reed — Wed, 27 May 2015 09:10:09 -0400

Frowning on someone for having one school and not another is foolish. Graduating from Pathfinder is an accomplishment by itself. Who cares that you didn't learn to fall out of an airplane or slide down a rope?

Response by 1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 27 at 2015 9:26 AM

1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 May 2015 09:26:32 -0400

just remember that if you are Pathfinder qualified you have to be jumpmaster qualified to put Soldiers out of the AC.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 27 at 2015 9:26 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 May 2015 09:26:27 -0400

No, not by anyone remotely familiar with the school. It's comparable to going to Ranger School without ever going to Infantry AIT.
Those who know will respect it, those who don't aren't worth your concern

Response by MSG Brad Sand made May 27 at 2015 9:36 AM

MSG Brad Sand — Wed, 27 May 2015 09:36:12 -0400

If you are not Airborne or at least Air Assault qualified, what is the tactical reason for sending someone to the school? These schools are not intended for people to get pretty badges, they are for future war fighting.

Response by PFC Tuan Trang made May 27 at 2015 9:42 AM

PFC Tuan Trang — Wed, 27 May 2015 09:42:26 -0400

It doesn't matter what others think, it what make you feel happy counts.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 27 at 2015 10:04 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 May 2015 10:04:18 -0400

Pathfinders also work in finding a clear and safe way through a NBC environment. I know one that was at white sands who explained how pathfinders can work outside of airborne operations.

Response by SSG Todd Lysfjord made May 27 at 2015 10:25 AM

SSG Todd Lysfjord — Wed, 27 May 2015 10:25:12 -0400

I wouldn't say 'frowned upon' so much as the concept of NAP being totally ridiculous in a Pathfinder role.

As a Pathfinder one of your main missions is to insert into hostile territory ahead of the main force to facilitate their entry into the theater.

Doing this overland by walking or via mounted means is ridiculous. It takes too long and increases the chances of being compromised.

No place for NAP in a Pathfinder role. Ranger School...YES. Pathfinder...NO!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 27 at 2015 10:38 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 May 2015 10:38:09 -0400

Not Airborne, yes, since that would (historically) mean he could not fulfill all the Pathfinder missions. Air Assault is not required to go on an air assault.

Response by SFC Douglas Duckett made May 27 at 2015 11:17 AM

SFC Douglas Duckett — Wed, 27 May 2015 11:17:57 -0400

One of the missions of Pathfinders is to set up and control operations for re-supply. That means by fixed wing and rotor wing aircraft. Airborne and Infantry units are not the only ones that may need this ability if they find themselves in a pickle.

When I earned mine, they had recently changes the "Airborne" requirement, I jumped during school and the Non Airborne Personnel (NAPs) trucked in. Did I look down on them? You bet your ass I did, but I was high speed and low drag back then. Now I have a better appreciation for allowing NAPs and non combat arms for attending the school.

With age comes wisdom and experience.

Response by CPT Ahmed Faried made May 27 at 2015 11:36 AM

CPT Ahmed Faried — Wed, 27 May 2015 11:36:43 -0400

No it doesn't.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 27 at 2015 2:26 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 May 2015 14:26:26 -0400

I don't think it makes much sense from a unit perspective to send soldiers to pathfinder school if the unit is not airborne or air assault. Otherwise I don't see a problem with going to a school and learning stuff and bettering yourself. Does it look funny to have a pathfinder badge without wings of one kind or another? Absolutely. If you are self-conscious about it then go to airborne and air assault school.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made May 27 at 2015 3:25 PM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 May 2015 15:25:20 -0400

I think you should be proud of what you've accomplished there's plenty of soldiers out there who don't apply themselves enough or don't have the opportunity to attend schools such as airborne, pathfinder, etc. be proud you're one of the few that have pathfinder. It is not an easy school

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made May 27 at 2015 3:26 PM

LTC Paul Labrador — Wed, 27 May 2015 15:26:17 -0400

Did the requirements change? I thought Pathfinder required Airborne?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 27 at 2015 3:28 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 May 2015 15:28:47 -0400

I wouldnt say frowned upon, but coming from an individual who came from a Pathfinder company. Sending people who cant perform the tasks involved is pretty much kicking dirt in the face of guys who actually need that course.

Response by SSG Rod Schmidt made May 27 at 2015 5:53 PM

SSG Rod Schmidt — Wed, 27 May 2015 17:53:01 -0400

In today's touchy, feely military where the goal seems to be filling quotas and keeping the masses happy, things like "reason" or "purpose" have become grey areas that are bent and twisted as seen fit. Wear the badge your earned proudly. You achieved what few ever will. Just know that without the other two there will ALWAYS be those who will poke fun at the leg with the space shuttle doregunner badge.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made May 27 at 2015 6:15 PM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Wed, 27 May 2015 18:15:49 -0400

It really depends on how that Soldier feels about the whole thing.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 27 at 2015 7:38 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 May 2015 19:38:31 -0400

First of all, if you attend your unit obviously needs that aprticular skill-set. On MTOEs there are coded positions for Pathfinders because that unit requires qualified personeel to accomplish their wartime missions. Non-Airborne units have F7 positions also so Airborne is not a requirement. After becoming Pathfinder qualified Air Assault is a moot point the idea being if you have the driver's license (Pathfinder), why get a learner's permit (Air Assault)? I don't frown upon it, it is an extremely difficult school. In my class we started 52 and graduated 21. In my experience, about as tough as Jumpmaster school with about the same pass rate.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 27 at 2015 7:47 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 May 2015 19:47:47 -0400

No, though being Air Assault qualified gives you some of the knowledge you'll need for Path Finder school. Path Finder is much more demanding intellectually than Air Assault. If you can pass without having gone or been afforded the opportunity to go to Air Assault first, good job. Getting your Air Assault badge should be a breeze after that.

Response by CH (COL) Geoff Bailey made May 28 at 2015 6:48 AM

CH (COL) Geoff Bailey — Thu, 28 May 2015 06:48:32 -0400

SSG Private RallyPoint Member , it's rare, but still a very challenging school which distinguishes you from your peers while providing a skill set to your assigned unit.

Response by MSG Robert Mills made May 28 at 2015 12:01 PM

MSG Robert Mills — Thu, 28 May 2015 12:01:21 -0400

Id say yes they are, and they should be, Pathfinder School is not a reward or finishing school for people its a operational school, pathfinder operations are specifically for airborne and air assault operations, so tell me how a pathfinder that hasnt jumped, or completed air assault school qualified to conduct any of those operations effectively?

Response by SFC James Young made May 28 at 2015 5:35 PM

SFC James Young — Thu, 28 May 2015 17:35:41 -0400

Well, I started my career as 11H in a mech unit back in the day, we were reclassified as 11M. In mech units there were few slots given for Airborne, Air Assault, forget Ranger unless you were en route to another unit and just showed up. Officers without tabs usually got Ranger school slots in a mech unit because they were more than likely going light next. Once you made SSG in a mech unit, rest assured you could go to Master Gunner school as many times as you wanted (until you graduated). Guys growing up mech were pretty much flat liners without EIB or CIB. I was a Bradley MG, mech for most of my career and went light at about 15 years....went to pathfinder school. As a senior squad leader and later as a platoon sergeant I was very glad to have extensive knowledge on HLZs and DZs. Why? If you don't know the answer then you never served a day in theater as combat arms and your input is irrelevant. Medevac? Resupply? CCA? Hey, even if my FO was calling CCA, I was able to assist and not get In his way. It was more than just a badge to me, it saved a lot of lives and helped me accomplish a lot of missions.

Response by SGT Allen D'Aoust made May 28 at 2015 9:03 PM

SGT Allen D'Aoust — Thu, 28 May 2015 21:03:31 -0400

I have never meet anyone who was not airborne or air assault qualified that became a Pathfinder. Why would you? In my day we could operate LZ's for airborne troops but on my second time in we could not only Jump Masters that were Pathfinder qualified could.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2015 4:36 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 May 2015 16:36:35 -0400

Actually I'm in that boat. It's a little different for me since, in my case, I'm Air Force and a Pathfinder slot came available before I could go to Air Assault or Airborne so I have the torch and no other schools.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2015 12:27 PM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Jun 2015 12:27:59 -0400

Are we having problems filling up the slots in school with only Airborne and Air Assault trained troops? If so then we can afford to offer up the opportunity to others. If not then the discriminator is justified.

I have more than a few schools under my belt that trained me on skills I have not and will never use. I am also sure that we have troops that did Airborne that never jumped out of a plane ever again after Fort Benning.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 9 at 2015 9:21 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 21:21:02 -0400

As an officer who went to pathfinder prior to either airborne or air assault I definately got some weird looks. As a pilot in an assault helicopter battalion, it was extremely valuable training to understand the ground side of things.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 2 at 2015 2:31 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Jul 2015 14:31:06 -0400

We have to be jumpmaster qualified before being considered for Pathfinder. Needed for DZ surveys and ATC to a small extent. All of this is dependent on the needs of your command and your mission.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2015 7:09 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 17 Aug 2015 19:09:28 -0400

Two guys in my class were not Airborne qualified and not having Air Assault was not an issue for me. I agree, it is a trivial issue. I've always said, don't claim the problems or fears of others as your own.

Response by SGT Scott Bell made Sep 6 at 2015 6:49 PM

SGT Scott Bell — Sun, 06 Sep 2015 18:49:27 -0400

YES

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Sep 7 at 2015 1:08 AM

LTC Jason Mackay — Mon, 07 Sep 2015 01:08:58 -0400

In 2007 I read in a regulation that one must be Air Assault or Airborne qualified to attend Pathfinder. I can not find said reg at the moment, but I saw it after I called BS on it. Can't imagine it changed.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 7 at 2015 1:40 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 07 Sep 2015 01:40:52 -0400

This makes no sense. Without either qualification one would not have anyone to find a path for.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 10 at 2015 2:10 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Sep 2015 14:10:13 -0400

No it is not frowned up because to each his or her own. Every school earned should be something you walk around proud about either it be Airborne or AirAssault, or pathfinder. I have been to AirAssault school and I still get jealous seeing pathfinder on someone else's chest. I personally don't frown upon it.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 16 at 2015 11:37 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 16 Sep 2015 11:37:40 -0400

Air Assault is a requirement before pathfinder at Ft. Campell now. I am not sure if has always been that way though. The logical progression to me would be how it is at Ft. Campell right now. Sorry I can't really answer your question because I just don't know if is frowned upon.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2015 6:08 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 17 Sep 2015 18:08:48 -0400

I think the big question would be why do we pay to have soldiers trained on skills they'll never need while other soldiers who could use those skills don't get the training. These schools weren't started so you could get promotion points and a shiny pin, they were developed to increase survivability of combat troops. To simplify things they should just bar none combat soldiers from this type of training. Sending a leg to pathfinder or a fobbit to ranger is like sending cooks to sniper school. It doesn't make you a pathfinder or a ranger because you went through a school. Only when you've been in those groups and it's insulting to think otherwise

Response by SPC Tim Richardson made Sep 22 at 2015 5:46 AM

SPC Tim Richardson — Tue, 22 Sep 2015 05:46:11 -0400

I wouldn't say frowned upon, but as we all know Ft. Campbell sergeants will bug the shit out of ya about going to Air Assault School and will be persistant about it til you get those wings.

Response by SSG John Caples made Dec 3 at 2015 5:56 PM

SSG John Caples — Thu, 03 Dec 2015 17:56:21 -0500

yEP

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 10 at 2015 10:43 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 22:43:42 -0500

Depends on where you are. Airborne u its usually only send Jumpmaster to Pathfinder because you must he both to run the Pathfinder table while conducting Airborne missions. Most MTOE PSG slots are Pathfinder so they can get supplies flown in for their guys while conducting PLT ops. Haven't done Pathfinder yet myself but it's next on the list. Good luck if you haven't gone yet.

Response by MAJ Matthew Arnold made Dec 23 at 2015 2:59 AM

MAJ Matthew Arnold — Wed, 23 Dec 2015 02:59:51 -0500

That's news to me. I have always thought you had to be airborne first and a jump master to go to pathfinder school.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 1 at 2016 8:19 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Jan 2016 20:19:00 -0500

Air Assault or Airborne was a prerequisite to attend pathfinder school when I was at Campbell from 03 to 09 so Im guessing things changed. That being said if u earned the badge, wear it proudly especially the torch because the dropout rate use to be very high so you have attained something others will not or can not. But if it bugs you then volunteer for Air Assault or Airborne school like somebody else mentioned in this thread.

Response by MSG Michael Jackson made Mar 17 at 2016 2:46 PM

MSG Michael Jackson — Thu, 17 Mar 2016 14:46:13 -0400

When I went to Pathfinder school there was a couple of students that were neither airborne or air assault. If you got the slot then don't worry what others think. You were given a opportunity that very few get unless you have specific MOS or duty assignment.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2017 11:50 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Mar 2017 23:50:33 -0400

The topic is a bit old, but I'll share my opinion on the subject. I think the big problem with the Army is putting the "school" before the actual "training". What I mean is that "schools" like Air Assault and Pathfinder should be "training" that is conducted consistently at particular units to educate troops on being able to do the job.

When I was in HHC 325th AIR, 82nd ABN, my maintenance section got tasked for Pathfinder operations along with our supply NCOIC (who I believe was Pathfinder Qual'd or he was brought up to speed by a Qual'd Pathfinder). We got trained on PZ/LZ ops for airborne/air assault missions and slingloading. We supported a number of training exercises for our brigade (this was back in '96) and it was a pretty cool thing to do in the Army. Now, notice how I didn't discuss anything about attending a school or any of that, we simply got a tasking, got trained up, and we got it done. It seems that everything is attached to a school and all everyone does is talk about how hard it was or the badge on their chest, but I don't have a AA or Pathfinder badge, but I conducted both in peacetime and during combat.

It is not a big deal. Yes, those that have completed the training deserve kudos for their INDIVIDUAL accomplishment, but the truth of the matter is that it only matters if you did it in your unit (training or combat), and a number of them have not. I've seen a leg Pathfinder before and I didn't care at all because schools are highly overrated in the Army. Like a 5 jump chump calling himself a Paratrooper, but never served in an airborne unit and actually conducted an airborne operation. If you never did it outside of the schoolhouse, it doesn't really matter. The Army has disgraced the honor of these schools because they use them as an incentive, instead of what they are actually designed for which is to provide troops to the units to perform the duty.

Response by MSG James Hughs made Apr 21 at 2017 10:33 AM

MSG James Hughs — Fri, 21 Apr 2017 10:33:50 -0400

Everyone is "frowned upon" by somebody.... Airborne frowns upon legs...."Green Beanies" frown upon red berets.... it is a a part of military life.... you can not let it bother you.... respect is earned by deed not a badge or patch..... be the most competent and professional "pathfinder" you can be and do not sweat the "frowning'.....means nothing
When I graduated jump school we had a beer party....everyone was pumped...."Rip" Collins our TAC....got up and said..... "Remember I told you cherries that one airborne trooper could whip FIVE LEGS".....the roof rattled from the roar.....He continued....".....Don't you believe that crap....we got some big legs on this post !".....reality check

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made May 12 at 2017 3:31 PM

SGM Erik Marquez — Fri, 12 May 2017 15:31:09 -0400

"Is a Soldier who is Pathfinder qualified, without being Airborne or Air Assault qualified, frowned upon?"

Frowned upon? No.
Justifiable in use of resources, manning, funds, time? NO, not at all.

Pathfinder without the means to get to the austere tentative airfield or DZ is not tactically sound.
There are other schools and training available to teach someone to set up an HLZ for air assault operations.
Unless the SM attending pathfinder is assigned the task or potentially will be assigned the task of setting up a landing strip, a DZ, a Multi ship and echelon HLZ, that SM is just a badge hunter.
It would be a waste of resources and I would actively deny, delay, roadblock an SM that should be in the motorpool turning wrenches, on a Bradley doing gun maintenance with their crew, at the company area doing Machine gun emplacement, displacement and immediate action drills with their squad,,vice wasting time at Pathfinder school forcing others to pick up their slack.

Response by SGT Chester Beedle made May 21 at 2017 2:09 AM

SGT Chester Beedle — Sun, 21 May 2017 02:09:51 -0400

If you have pathfinder why would you care about Air Assault School? Don't you learn everything in AA and a lot more?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2017 12:15 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Jun 2017 12:15:08 -0400

There are pre-requisites that have to be fulfilled in order to attend this school. I.E. air assault or airborne. So if the individual is wearing the pathfinder badge then they probably have attended one of the afore mentioned schools.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 16 at 2017 8:13 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Jun 2017 20:13:08 -0400

Yes, the only way to use this skill is as a Combat, in the field, asset and due to the nature of the duty, most are parachuted in or air assaulted in. I actually believe you must be Airborne Qualified to be Qualify to go to Pathfinder.

Response by SSG Phillip Wise made Aug 12 at 2017 10:37 PM

SSG Phillip Wise — Sat, 12 Aug 2017 22:37:22 -0400

As soon as I saw this topic I knew there would be a ton of mixed reviews. As a scout who is neither AB or AA qualified, I'm a Leg but I do have my torch. Combat jumps or zipping in isn't the only way of being inserted into the target AO. You can walk In, get dropped off by helo, driven in. I learned a butt load of stuff that I got to use during deployments. Never got a chance to be a part of a PF unit but sounds like it would of been fun. Everyone has their own say in this but when it comes down to it, I was chosen to go, I passed while watching lots of others drop like flies. Only 1% of the army is PF qualified and I'm damn proud to hold my torch. **first in-last out**

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Mar 28 at 2018 9:31 AM

SGM Bill Frazer — Wed, 28 Mar 2018 09:31:01 -0400

Frowned upon- no, but not much use to a unit- cause how are you suppose to get were you can perform your duties. If ABN or Air Assault- you have ingress means at hand- it would have been a damn long walk for a leg to get to most of my missions.

Response by SPC Robert Siravo made Aug 20 at 2018 8:35 PM

SPC Robert Siravo — Mon, 20 Aug 2018 20:35:28 -0400

I have a pathfinder. II qualification on my DD-214 what is that qualification from the 11th combat Aviation Battalion 12-week course Pathfinder school does that entitle me to the Pathfinder badge award . also that was a 1967 in Vietnam .

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 16 at 2018 4:33 PM

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Oct 2018 16:33:22 -0400

Air Assault, Pathfinder and C.A.B.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 11 at 2019 6:02 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 Dec 2019 18:02:40 -0500

You guys realize that many physical operations are carried out using serial resupply right? Obviously, you don't. Pathfinder is designed to teach the skills necessary to lay out a proper dropzone or LZ. I was in another country assisting with refugee/humanitarian assistance operations and nearly got splattered by errant supply drops because the clueless super duper paratroopers who'd jumped many times but who were wholly unqualified to lay out the drop zone and correctly calculate winds and their effects. The soldier who squared things away was a leg supply dog wearing, gasp, a patch finder badge. The refugees and the rest of us appreciated that young man's skills and the fact that no more bundles landed in the living spaces.

Response by CPT Brad Wilson made Dec 11 at 2019 6:14 PM

CPT Brad Wilson — Wed, 11 Dec 2019 18:14:05 -0500

Don’t you have to be Airborne qualified before you can go to Pathfinder?

Response by SSG John Allison made Dec 11 at 2019 6:47 PM

SSG John Allison — Wed, 11 Dec 2019 18:47:09 -0500

Things must have changed. I thought you had to be airborne to be a Pathfinder. You did when I was in during the Cold War. How are you going to parachute into a drop zone to mark it if you can't parachute? Seems to me that only airborne qualified person's should be able to go to Pathfinder school.

Response by 1SG Bryan Greaves made Dec 11 at 2019 7:34 PM

1SG Bryan Greaves — Wed, 11 Dec 2019 19:34:30 -0500

I was an Army Reservist in the early 1980's, first as a Radio Operator in 11th Special Forces Group, then later as an Airborne Infantryman in the 5th Pathfinder Platoon - both units have long been deactivated.

In 1984 the requirements to attend the U.S. Army Pathfinder School at Ft Benning, GA were to be male, Airborne qualified, holding a combat MOS or being assigned to a combat unit, be able to speak clearly on a radio ... and had to have a reason for attending the Pathfinder school. I went through the course with guys from the Ranger battalions, 82nd Airborne, some LRSD guys, as well as Commandos from Thailand and Jordan.

In those days it wasn't common for guys to sport the coveted Torch. But I was a Pathfinder, and worked with an Aviation unit - did slingloading and DZ Ops for 11th SF Group. My NCOs were all Vietnam Vets, and were fantastic mentors.

I subsequently enlisted Active Duty to be an Intelligence Analyst, and was assigned to the 5th SF Group, while it was still at Ft Bragg. In the Reserve I had been a Sp/4, fixing to make Sp/5, however entered Active Duty as a PFC. Needless to say, I was stopped by 82nd Abn Div NCOs - a lot - and asked "how the hell does a PFC go to Pathfinder school?!" If I thought the guy had a sense of humor, I'd claim that I saw the Torch in Clothing Sales and thought it looked cool! Otherwise, I had to explain that I was prior service.

A couple decades later I was in the 101st Abn (not by choice) when I saw a female wearing the Pathfinder Torch. I have to admit that it really caught me off guard. She didn't have Jump Wings. Later, as a First Sergeant, I sat on a number of Soldier of the Quarter/Soldier of the Year boards, and was stunned by the fact that Pathfinder slots were being "awarded" to Soldiers who did well.

By this time the 101st was running a Pathfinder course at Ft Campbell.

I retired in 2008. In the years since, I've seen Soldiers anywhere from PFC on up wearing the Torch ... the vast majority not Airborne qualified. With the Army's "bright" decision to deactivate specialty units, such as Pathfinder and LRSD, it seems that anyone and everyone gets to go to school.

While Big Army claims that getting Soldiers put through the school places a pool of trained troops out into the units who can perform Pathfinder functions if needed, I strongly believe that this is false. It takes these specialized units to perform specialized tasks, and to do them as their primary function.

And in the end, the Army always scrambles to cobble these units together again when it discovers that there is, indeed, a need for them. Big Army tends to be short sighted that way. Units deactivated at the end of large conflicts, only to be quickly put together again.

A consequence of this is that a hell of a lot of institutional knowledge disappears when these units are deactivated.

Its a failing in the Armed Forces that leadership becomes so enamored of automated systems and remote/unmanned platforms that it comes to believe that these stand-alone systems alone can do everything. This is extremely unwise, and fails to factor in the fact that it most often requires actual skilled and experienced Soldiers in the AO to be able to make judgement calls as needed. Something lacking in unmanned platforms.

Response by SPC Rick LaBonte made Dec 12 at 2019 5:25 PM

SPC Rick LaBonte — Thu, 12 Dec 2019 17:25:10 -0500

The way I see it no military qualifications should be frowned upon. My grandfather was an engineer and I fixed track and wheeled drivelines. He carried an M1 in WW2 and used it! I carried a M16 in Desert Storm and if it lasted longer I might have had to! Even these guys rely on support, you can’t fly yourself in or yell loud enough to get fire support or extracted!

Response by SSG Kenneth Ponder made Dec 13 at 2019 4:59 PM

SSG Kenneth Ponder — Fri, 13 Dec 2019 16:59:38 -0500

If you're not abn or air assault, there is no reason to send you for tng. It's like female paratroopers, all they do is whistle.

Response by SPC Matthew Rouse made Dec 13 at 2019 6:30 PM

SPC Matthew Rouse — Fri, 13 Dec 2019 18:30:02 -0500

i could be wrong , but isnt a path finder some one who sets up dz's and lz's?.. does being jump or aaslt qualified matters if your setting up zones, hell straight leg infantry or any other unit would need the skills to set up for resupply drops or bird patches.( bird patch ..helicopter landing areas or lz)

Response by SFC Carmelo Echevarria made Dec 13 at 2019 8:30 PM

SFC Carmelo Echevarria — Fri, 13 Dec 2019 20:30:57 -0500

Interesting comments.....But whether you like it or not what I am about to state is true. The Pathfinder School information page (FT Benning) breaks down who can attend by rank and MOS. AA and ABN qualified or for that matter on a "AA" type unit or jump status are not the only one authorized to attend. One of the MOS authorized to attend are the 92Y.

Today Pathfinders are not the pathfinders from WWII; with the addition of rotary aircraft the traditional Pathfinder mission is no longer. Every major unit has rotary capabilities and this is how a 92Y from the 1st Cavalry Division (Non AA or ABN) can attend the course. And if you have not figure it out the why yet. Is to add additional skill for the 92Y to accomplish its logistical mission requirements.

In addition, if you are jumpmaster qualified you are technically Pathfinder qualified in the old sense of trade.

Remember pathfinder school today is a hybred of jumpmaster course, air assault school with a twist of air traffic controller.

From: Pathfinder qualified trooper that was actually assigned and performed pathfinder job-duties.

Response by SGT Albert Thompson made Dec 13 at 2019 11:28 PM

SGT Albert Thompson — Fri, 13 Dec 2019 23:28:49 -0500

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought being Airborne qualified was a prerequisite for Pathfinder training. Unlike Ranger school, where you don’t.

Response by PVT Shomari Taylor made Mar 3 at 2020 12:49 PM

PVT Shomari Taylor — Tue, 03 Mar 2020 12:49:38 -0500

I drove for the NCOIC for the PATHFINDER School in Ft. Wainwright Ak. In 98 at the time I just got pinned E-4. In order for you at the time to EARN a PATHFINDER BADGE you had to be Airborne & Air Assault STACKED! The requirements for the class was to 2 mandatory jumps (airborne) and setup LZ and Complete a successful sling load you have to sign (air assault)

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2021 8:06 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 10 May 2021 20:06:45 -0400

I went and graduated without either. Funny enough I was submitting for air assault and a Pathfinder slot became available and I accepted. Since the school
is more difficult to attain a slot for than AA or Abn.

Response by 1SG Ernest Stull made Jun 7 at 2023 6:47 AM

1SG Ernest Stull — Wed, 07 Jun 2023 06:47:24 -0400

You earned it be proud of the torch.