Is BCT too easy due to Drills being forced to be soft?

Wed, 11 Dec 2013 00:39:50 -0500

I've heard rumors that at Drill Sergeant school they now are teaching Drills to be soft. I can't find any info on the official site, obviously they wont publicize that. Are there any Drill Sergeants on RallyPoint that can address this?

I am looking to make Drill Sergeant one of my steps in my career, as you need some sort of separation from peers to make your 7. I am really interested in Drill Sergeant School, however I am not pleased with the stuff I have been hearing about no knife hands and not being able to call Privates...well PRIVATES!

I'm not wanting to abuse incoming soldiers but, if there's no breakdown of civilian to soldier i.e. "Shark Attacks" then what is the point of even attending Army BCT?

Response by LTC Jason Bartlett made Dec 11 at 2013 7:22 PM

LTC Jason Bartlett — Wed, 11 Dec 2013 19:22:07 -0500

Those rumors have and will always exist. I heard the same type of things before I went on the trail but had no issues in performing my duties as a Drill Sergeant. Bottom line is abide by TRADOC Reg 350-6 and you will have a positive experience. One of the best jobs I had so far in 25 years.

Response by SFC James Baber made Dec 12 at 2013 8:49 PM

SFC James Baber — Thu, 12 Dec 2013 20:49:59 -0500

People have been saying that for almost 20 years, those rumors have been going around forever. Try saying that to any Drill on the trail right now and they might give you some grass drills for your troubles. LOL

Response by 1SG Michael Blount made Dec 21 at 2013 9:14 AM

1SG Michael Blount — Sat, 21 Dec 2013 09:14:28 -0500

The abuses of a few have led to softening of the many.  Being Old School, I still refer to Basic Trainees as Private. I refuse to acknowledge them as Warriors.  In most casees, they haven't even passed their first APFT or qualified.  We're not allowed to call them "crack babies" anymore, and that's in keeping with the generally relaxed BCT standards.  I wonder how many of these Privates we're going to end up planting because we couldn't wash out the idiots during BCT. 

Response by 1SG Michael Blount made Feb 24 at 2014 7:24 AM

1SG Michael Blount — Mon, 24 Feb 2014 07:24:28 -0500

We're not being taught to be soft - we're being FORCED to be soft because most BCT commands are more concerned about metrics and how many Privates they graduate vs the quality of those graduates.   Drill Sergeant School, however, is tough. I have heard the washout rate is higher than Ranger or Airborne School.  Having done DSS, however, I can believe it.  I fully believe that being a DS led to my career progression, though.  It's a tough life, but rewarding and occasionally fun. A lot of being a Drill is knowing when to flip that switch with Privates. Keeping everything at a full boil invites burnout.  Being too slack, however, invites untrained/ill-trained Privates, and I just won't do that.

Response by SFC Steven Harvey made Feb 24 at 2014 7:38 AM

SFC Steven Harvey — Mon, 24 Feb 2014 07:38:21 -0500

Oh it is definitely happening, when I went to BASIC in '99 I thought it would be like what my old man went through in Vietnam era basic. Not even close, it was actually fairly easy.

It just keeps getting easier and easier and will probably never go back to the way it was. What kills me are NCOES schools and how SNCOs can not make on the spot corrections.

You want to know what would piss anyone off? Trying telling a Private (AIT Trainee) they can't walk around in the PT uniform with a pant leg pulled up over a knee pants sagging listening to their brand new ipod at the PX with cigarette in hand just to have them tell you to F off talk to my Platoon Sergeant.

I talked to him alright, the PSG said stay in your lane and I'll stay in mine.

I promise you I am not even remotely kidding. It's this reason why we are getting new Soldiers from AIT and basically have to babysit and retrain them to be Soldiers. Granted there are some kids coming in with good heads on their shoulders but those individuals are shrinking from what I have noticed over the years.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 24 at 2014 9:30 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 24 Feb 2014 09:30:25 -0500

In 2000, when I went though, it was the toughest thing I ever did in my life (at that point). Then again, I pushed myself; my drills weren't nice, but they didn't break me down by insulting me or making me feel small, they broke me down though training. On a side note, I know most in my PLDC class said the course was a Joke, but I must have been taking another course, cause I learned so much my brain hurt. Like most things, it is what you make of it.

Response by SPC Charles Brown made Mar 25 at 2014 5:45 PM

SPC Charles Brown — Tue, 25 Mar 2014 17:45:20 -0400

Yes.

Response by SFC Christopher Walker, MAOM, DSL made Apr 15 at 2014 9:26 AM

SFC Christopher Walker, MAOM, DSL — Tue, 15 Apr 2014 09:26:56 -0400

Congrats on wanting to be a Drill Sergeant! I
recently came off the trail in July 2013 from Fort Benning. Here are a few tips
for school:

Study your modules! Know how to pitch the position
of attention, the hand salute and the rest positions at the halt (parade rest, stand
at ease, at ease and rest) before you get to school. Here is a link to the
video demonstration. http://vimeo.com/channels/524805

Know how march, call cadences, give PRT and pass the
APFT and HT/Weight. Believe it are not, there were NCOs that couldn’t march are
squad are call cadence. Many even fail the APFT and HT/Height.

This is not your typical NCOES school. Be on time
and in the right uniform EVERYDAY. You can be kicked out for any infraction.

Find a study group that really study. Some Drill
Sergeant Candidates would just party and party and wonder why they failed the
course.

Be prepared for a few cry babies. Yes, there will be
a lot of crying and complaining about everything from the Senior NCOs down to
the Sergeants. Separate yourself from those individuals immediately. Here is
the link to the DSS for all other relevant information. http://www.jackson.army.mil/sites/school/pages/127/Drill-Sergeant-School

Other than that, stay motivated and you will be a
changed individual once you receive your badge and campaign hat. Remember, you
will train thousands and thousands of recruits year round. You may not remember
them, but they will remember you. You will be their first impression of the
Army. Do it will pride and dignity. You don’t have to smoke or abuse a Soldier
to get them to do the right thing. Leading by example will show them what right
looks like. Whenever you get down time with your soldiers, share your stories
and mentor them. I found out that they will respect you more if you show them
that you care about their future in the military. Since leaving the trail, I
see at least two Soldiers a week that I trained. All of them thank me for sharing
advice, such as TA, medical, dental, counselings, etc. It is never too early to
share knowledge to these young Soldiers. They are the future of our nation and
our most precious resource.

Response by MSG Martin C. made Apr 15 at 2014 9:39 AM

MSG Martin C. — Tue, 15 Apr 2014 09:39:39 -0400

I love to see miss information from individuals that are not even X qualified. If you mean soft as we don't condone abuse than yes we don't practice tyranical tactics. I recently just left the Drill Sergeant School you speak off. I was one of the four Senior Drill Sergeants and if you expectation of DS duty us like full metal jacket you definitely will be disappointed. We teach our DS candidates to be discipline by researching everything we task them. We make them SMEs in PRT, BRM, MACPC I, and leadership. As far as what you call soft I don't know what are you looking for because even the toughest guy always encounters someone tougher. We instill values and respect by leading from the front and holding Soldiers accountable for their actions; so if you expectation is to be this brutal course I advise you to attend RASP and go to RTB to become a ranger. If what you are looking for is training the future of the Army than you may apply to go DS but I must warm you if you go with the wrong mentality it could cost you your career as this is a highly spot light assignment.

Response by SFC Craig Dalen made Apr 15 at 2014 10:46 AM

SFC Craig Dalen — Tue, 15 Apr 2014 10:46:53 -0400

I feel that the standard set while I was a DS was too low. There were plenty of Soldiers that came through my unit that I would never had recommended to graduate. But the only standard enforced in this unit was to pass an APFT and qualify with a rifle. Everything else was waived to keep numbers high. These are the same Soldiers that units are dealing with over respect and discipline issues...

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2014 3:18 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 15 Apr 2014 15:18:16 -0400

I've said it before and I will say it again. I remember standing in line outside the DFAC at Parade Rest, no talking, no looking around, waiting to go in. Once you were through the line, you sat down, you ate, you left. There was no sitting back in your chair, relaxing, shooting the breeze with your buddies. If you looked up it was because you were done eating. I remember having to EARN phone privileges. You stood in line, facing the opposite direction, you stood at Parade Rest silent and waited your turn. When it was your turn you got 10 minutes. If anyone in line was caught talking or BSing then the whole platoon lost that privilege until they EARNED it again. Those that were on the phone simply said goodbye or I have to go and hung up.

There was no walking around with your cell phone, or smoking, or any of that. That's where I think we have gone soft. New recruits aren't treated like Soldiers they're treated like it's college or summer camp. I don't blame Drill Sergeants for the way things are I blame the system. These new recruits don't get that harsh wake up that they are now in the military like we did. I'm not saying let the Drills smoke the life out of new Soldiers, but definitely make them earn what they get. The reason they don't act like Soldiers is because they aren't made to.

We wrote letters by hand if we wanted to talk to someone at home. If you received candy, cookies, or some other junk in the mail sorry it went away. At the end of the day there was no going outside to talk to our buddies and enjoy the evening air. You were in your bay and you weren't laying down on your bunk until lights out either. I do believe that Drill Sergeants should have a little more freedom in how they deal with Soldiers, but within reason. My Drill Sergeants (DS George, DS Stunkard, and DS Meehan) were never abusive, or mean, or anything like that, but you better believe that they would jack you up in a heart beat and smoke your bags until you puked. My Drill Sergeants TRAINED us to be Soldiers, they didn't baby us, or give us a time out if our little feelings got hurt. As I recall they told us that the Army didn't issue us feelings. They kick our butts when we screwed up and patted us on the back when we did something good. They taught is respect for our superiors and for our peers. We were Privates so we didn't have subordinates. By the way, when in the hell did being called by your rank become demeaning? If you are a PVT, PV2, or PFC guess what YOU'RE A PRIVATE!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2014 8:46 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 15 Apr 2014 20:46:16 -0400

There is only one way to find out what really goes on in training at the Drill Sergeant School! I am currently serving as a Drill Sergeant Leader and believe me, we do not disclose ANYTHING in terms of what we train. However, if your are looking to "make your 7" you may want to re-evaluate yourself and begin to think not about you but the Soldiers you may be training. The bottom line is, our future Soldiers deserve nothing but the BEST and that is what we try to develop at The USADSS. We all listen to what folks have to say about their experiences and that is not a bad thing. However, take a close look at the sources of information to evaluate and maybe you'll find links between performance and dissatisfaction. If that's the case seek advise from others specifically those who have been or are Drill Sergeants!

Response by SPC Charles Brown made Apr 15 at 2014 8:51 PM

SPC Charles Brown — Tue, 15 Apr 2014 20:51:14 -0400

I am not nor was I a Drill Sergeant, but in my opinion that is the reason basic training is too easy. I remember when I first entered the military back in 1979 "wall to wall" counseling was employed to straighten out the soldiers tiny heart syndrome. It should go back to that.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made May 24 at 2014 8:01 AM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 24 May 2014 08:01:21 -0400

Once you are under the hat, BCT is as tough as you make it, however, it is tough enough already. Most of the tasks are the same that were taught before I came in. The difference is the man/woman under the hat. In my experience, Soldiers always wanted more and more training. Soldiers from other platoons wanted to know what I was teaching. They felt challenged and always expressed gratitude for what they learned. Remember, basic training is exactly that, basic skills training. The mastering if those and other skills happens at the first duty station and perhaps the rest of their career.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2014 11:13 AM

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 29 May 2014 11:13:18 -0400

The DSL's do not teach us how to be soft, I can garauntee that. Most of us that arrive at DSS have already led troops for awhile and know how to handle young soldiers. It's at the school that we get taught about how to turn civilians into soldiers. DSS and BCT are not soft, but I will tell you, that maybe this perception of DSS or BCT being soft is because there are some DS's out there that are not quality NCOs. I have seen far too many concerned about themselves and not putting the mission and their soldiers first. And the results show. There are DS's that think BCT is band camp or cheerleading camp and buddy up to their soldiers. Can't, for the life of me figure out why. Maybe it's because they are weak in leadership skills to begin with and shouldn't have been a DS, nevermind a NCO. But it is what it is. We just have to be fair and enforce the standards and not get our own feelings hurt when another NCO corrects our soldiers on something that we missed. We should thank them and not curse them. We are all one team, but if we are all not on the same page, this won't work. Again, BCT and DSS are not soft, those of us who made it through DSS will attest to that!

Response by SGT John Ball made Aug 4 at 2021 9:06 PM

SGT John Ball — Wed, 04 Aug 2021 21:06:54 -0400

Here is how I see it, the Drill Sergeant has one job and that's to make a tough, competent, and reliable soldier. The yelling, head games, smoking's and such is a part of the process and nothing personal. Hell, I am a better man for it and would do it again if I had to. Heavy handed discipline never killed anybody.