Is calling cadences a dying art?

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Mar 2016 11:07:22 -0400

We had a Company Run this morning and had to almost beg to call cadences. With all this sprinting, fast paced runs or small groups, you don't get to hear cadences anymore. Even in such a small post like Fort Meade, you should hear cadences here and there but no, we were the only Company sounding off.

Do you think calling cadences is a dying art or is just my post?

Note: photo by Google Images.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2016 11:12 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Mar 2016 11:12:02 -0400

Yes. Many units seem to do more platoon/section level PT, which doesn't really need cadence calling, especially during sprints and interval runs. NCOs may likely have to work harder to lead by example to teach subordinates cadences.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Mar 14 at 2016 11:14 AM

SSG Warren Swan — Mon, 14 Mar 2016 11:14:59 -0400

Unless you want to hear C-130 five million times in a one mile stretch it could be. Haven't been able to do Jody calls since I was a PVT. When you do get that ONE who can call em, he gets burned out cuz everyone wants him to call them. I remember when I was younger, C-130, UH-60, were the staples. Then you'd hear Airborne Ranger, When I get to heaven, and if you could find someone who REALLY could pull it together, Hard Work was deadly. Folks would come alive for Hard Work. You have YouTube now, so there's no excuse not to know more than the staple cadences when damn near everyone ever used is on there. Ft. Meade....yeah it could be just there.

Response by PO2 Mark Saffell made Mar 14 at 2016 11:24 AM

PO2 Mark Saffell — Mon, 14 Mar 2016 11:24:14 -0400

I hope its not dying. That made it things better. Took your mind off the tired legs. But then I was on the Drill Team and we called every move.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2016 11:26 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Mar 2016 11:26:26 -0400

The Army has changed over the years. Back when I was a Private, platoon size P.T. formations were the norm and you ran as fast as your PL or you fell out. NCOs sang cadence on runs that were 7:30 - 8:00 minute miles or faster.

Now you should be doing P.T. at the squad level. You should be focusing on intervals and AGRs to improve your cardio and improve your 2 mile run time. Team building runs, company/battalion size should be limited to once a month at the most.

If you can talk/sing cadence during a run you're not working hard enough. That's just my opinion.

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made Mar 14 at 2016 11:37 AM

SGT Dave Tracy — Mon, 14 Mar 2016 11:37:58 -0400

Trying not to be too cynical here, but I swear half of the cadence calls you can no longer do. A bit too impolitic for modern sensibilities perhaps. So what are we left with? Man, if I have to hear C-130 one more damn time, I'll drop-kick a penguin!

Response by 1SG Michael Blount made Mar 14 at 2016 11:49 AM

1SG Michael Blount — Mon, 14 Mar 2016 11:49:04 -0400

Given the political correctness taking hold of the Army and the shadier overtones of most running cadences, are you really surprised nobody's sounding off? Besides, cadences are better suited for airborne shuffle/longer distance runs, not the sprinting or fast paced runs you described.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Mar 14 at 2016 11:51 AM

CSM Charles Hayden — Mon, 14 Mar 2016 11:51:25 -0400

That photo illustrates why; "clap when your left foot hits the ground'" is so effective!

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2016 12:03 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Mar 2016 12:03:36 -0400

Yes! Jodies are dying off due to Political Correctness and Hurt Feelings. When the MEO can make a case out of absolutely nothing we have taken a wrong turn in our society.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2016 12:12 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Mar 2016 12:12:01 -0400

I hate cadences now. If your in long enough it just wears thin. It's like a broken record that never stops. When I was a younger joe, I loved it.

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Mar 14 at 2016 1:17 PM

MSG Brad Sand — Mon, 14 Mar 2016 13:17:14 -0400

Yes. It has been for a long time but it is still holding on.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2016 2:01 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Mar 2016 14:01:48 -0400

One thing I do miss about living on post many years ago is being 'woken up' on a day off by the sounds of cadence in the morning. Hearing that 'Left, left, left, right-o, le-eft!! [formation repeats], Love to double time! [formation repeats] We do it all da time!! It would get quiet for a few seconds, then another formation comes by with their chant. So on and so forth. Sometimes it was intermixed a bit, but still sounded good.

To think, some posts restricted cadence in some areas, as not to wake up the sleeping population. I mean on post. No cadence, because people were sleeping. Yeah. I hope this still isn't a thing. If you're bothered by hearing cadence in the morning, then maybe you should move off post. I don't know a sweeter 'alarm clock' to wake up to, myself.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2016 3:27 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Mar 2016 15:27:07 -0400

If runs remained at a moderate to slow enough pace to successfully call cadences, it wouldn't seem like it's dying off. When my company goes on a run we know we are in for at least a 7:30-8 minute pace...why try calling cadence at that point? I love it personally. Especially running down good ol Ardennes at Fort Bragg; you can't help but feed off the energy of other units running by you sounding off.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2016 3:27 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Mar 2016 15:27:57 -0400

Something about grown men calling cadences about "one two, buckle my shoe" or the never ending C-130 that just keeps on rolling down the strip.

Ladies and gentlemen, can I recommend that this is in fact, not motivation. Motivation is self improvement. It is competition to become better. It is pride towards one's unit. Instead of asking, is the calling of cadences a dying art, let's consider whether or not there ever was any art to it in the first place. Professionalism does not start at the capability to call cadences. A simple reference of TC 3-21.5 (Drill and Ceremony) (https://rdl.train.army.mil/catalog-ws/view/100.ATSC/36E2FF6E-6A92-4FCE-A25F-09B684EEAA3C [login to see] 265/toc.htm) reflects two references towards cadence, and neither of them are about singing or calling cadence besides counting to four.

Central Army Registry (CAR) - 6.1.10.301

Response by MAJ Ronnie Reams made Mar 14 at 2016 5:24 PM

MAJ Ronnie Reams — Mon, 14 Mar 2016 17:24:04 -0400

Too much political correctness and folks looking to be offended for Jody anymore.

Response by Cpl James Waycasie made Mar 14 at 2016 11:32 PM

Cpl James Waycasie — Mon, 14 Mar 2016 23:32:06 -0400

The best part of running in platoon formation was singing, lol

Response by PVT Jevon James made Mar 14 at 2016 11:45 PM

PVT Jevon James — Mon, 14 Mar 2016 23:45:29 -0400

No more like uniformity,but cadences are not necessary.

Response by SFC William Farrell made Mar 15 at 2016 12:17 AM

SFC William Farrell — Tue, 15 Mar 2016 00:17:39 -0400

Jody's got your girl back home, had her lying in the prone, sound off 1 2!
I want to go to Vietnam; I want to kill some Charlie Cong, sound off 1 2!

And so many more............

I miss those days. I did my basic in November 1969 and it was a different Army then; we do evolve.

Response by Capt Chris McVeigh made Mar 15 at 2016 1:11 AM

Capt Chris McVeigh — Tue, 15 Mar 2016 01:11:39 -0400

Formation runs should always have cadence. Your daily section PT, whatever you choose to do, probably won't due to the varied nature of the activities. But anytime the whole unit gets together for a run, then the cadences should come out.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2016 6:36 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 15 Mar 2016 06:36:30 -0400

Is it a dying art? God I hope so, it is one of the single worst things I have ever been subjected to in the military. If there is a more fake moto thing to do then force people to run and conduct a sing along I am not sure what would beat it.

Response by SSgt Scott Walters made Mar 15 at 2016 9:17 AM

SSgt Scott Walters — Tue, 15 Mar 2016 09:17:04 -0400

IMHO, I like cadences. It takes your mind off of the run/pain and it helps build breathing.

Response by Sgt Tony Radle made Mar 15 at 2016 10:36 AM

Sgt Tony Radle — Tue, 15 Mar 2016 10:36:03 -0400

I can't speak for the Army, but I will say that my time in the Corps was spent calling cadences as loud and as bawdy as you could. Then again, as time went on I will say that some of the best cadences became frowned upon. But it was definitely the best part of being on another services installations. We would go for a zero dark thirty formation run and screaming and wheezing as loud as you can, just to let them know we were there. Apparently the little yellow birdy is frowned upon now, but it's definitely an old favorite of mine.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2016 11:13 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 15 Mar 2016 11:13:07 -0400

It is dying off, slowly but surely. But Joes like you and me are still going to fight to keep it alive. I happen to love pissing people off with cadence-calling, and it makes my day to watch the brass' arseholes pucker up tighter than a drum when I run by screaming about what "I don't know, but have been told" and the little "yellow bird."

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2016 11:33 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 15 Mar 2016 11:33:32 -0400

I believe it is a dying traditiona that would serve to instill cohesion, discipline and motivation in a platoon or company run. I know for me in my younger years (mid 90's) it served to keep my mind off of the pain or to break the monotony.

It also served to help with breathing control, lung capacity and taught young soldiers how to sound off.

Why would anyone on the military need to sound off? God forbid they would end up in a firefight and need to be heard.

I'm all about sprints, interval runs and related runs, but a platoon formation run should be done at least bi-weekly and a company run bi-monthly for the reasons I stated above.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2016 2:08 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 15 Mar 2016 14:08:53 -0400

There is no excuse honestly. Cadence calling helps boost motivation and helps Soldiers and NCOs break out of that shell that most of them are in. I will call cadences in any run. Company, Platoon, or section and I will call out anyone to do it as well. It has helped in the Aviation Unit that I am currently in because they were not use to it. You don't have to use old cadences either you can always create your own.

Response by SSG Delanda Hunt made Mar 15 at 2016 2:12 PM

SSG Delanda Hunt — Tue, 15 Mar 2016 14:12:45 -0400

Since the PC mafia took over. Why even bother.

Response by SSG Alvin Amezquita made Mar 15 at 2016 3:09 PM

SSG Alvin Amezquita — Tue, 15 Mar 2016 15:09:19 -0400

The funny thing is that the old army as a whole is dying. And then it's morphing into something that is not my army of yesteryear. Too much political correctness and of course weakness. Because ur suppose to be sensitive to other people's needs. Give me a break the army must be strong mentally and physically and it's a shame that it's worried about people's feeling than worrying about winning wars.

Response by MSG Mitch Dowler made Mar 15 at 2016 5:45 PM

MSG Mitch Dowler — Tue, 15 Mar 2016 17:45:16 -0400

Lot AF and others on Meade and they are not known for running or cadences. Many classic cadence were banned due to political incorrectness as far as I know so the fun and humor were mostly removed. Do you still hear the classic Jody calls?

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2016 9:18 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 15 Mar 2016 21:18:05 -0400

I'm not saying it is dying or it is not but personally I see no point in calling cadence. Growing up as a runner, if you could talk or speak comfortably while running, that was called an easy day. Generally this was only done while building up base mileage (conversation not cadence).

Personally I feel your not working yourself hard enough on a cardiovascular level if you are able to speak during a run. That and if you are running in step with someone that is completely different frame than you, it is counter productive. Everyone has a different stride and gait to which they run, so forcing people to do something they are not familiar with is hurting them in my opinion.

Now with regard to cadence itself, I personally have no rhythm and can never keep the formation in step. I frequently start or end the cadence call on the wrong foot.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2016 11:41 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 15 Mar 2016 23:41:08 -0400

Listening to a bunch of yelling for 6 miles at 8 minutes per mile makes me want to self immolate. It's noise and you have to run slow to make all that noise......which makes the noise last even longer. How about we just run as fast as we can for 6 miles, get a better workout and not listen to the same tired prose about C130s and paratroopers on some one way trip. You want esprit de corps? Turn PT into a Spartan Race.

Response by SPC Nicholas Cureton made Mar 16 at 2016 1:29 AM

SPC Nicholas Cureton — Wed, 16 Mar 2016 01:29:21 -0400

I love cadence. Even now on hikes or going jogging, I'm calling cadence in my head.

Response by SSG Dereck Davis made Mar 16 at 2016 2:48 AM

SSG Dereck Davis — Wed, 16 Mar 2016 02:48:05 -0400

I have always believed PT is an individual effort. The hardest PT you do should be on your own. If you are depending on your unit to keep you in shape, then you are failing already. Unit cohesion runs should be something you see once a week. Calling cadence is something that should be enjoyable for the rest of the team or unit your are running with.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2016 4:43 AM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 16 Mar 2016 04:43:19 -0400

Generally, by the end of runs that make a significant impact on my run times, the only person calling cadence to me would be Eminem. Group runs are a neat team-building exercise in training, but don't do much for physical training later on.

Response by SGT Allen D'Aoust made Mar 16 at 2016 10:00 AM

SGT Allen D'Aoust — Wed, 16 Mar 2016 10:00:40 -0400

In both of my enlistments we always called Cadence, but then again I think it is SOP for Infantry. The one big change I did see from the 80's to the new millennium was no more swearing while calling Cadence, they just don't have the same effect.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2016 10:15 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 16 Mar 2016 10:15:38 -0400

In this new Army we can't call cadence. What if we start with "When that left foot hit the ground!", then some soldier will self-identify as having two right feet, now his/her feelings will be hurt and the Army will therefore change to suit the individual.

Response by TSgt Marco McDowell made Mar 16 at 2016 10:17 AM

TSgt Marco McDowell — Wed, 16 Mar 2016 10:17:59 -0400

Sounds blasphemous to not call cadence. Not only does it get the soul motivated when hearing your platoon sound off,but it distracts you from the fact that you just got out of the rack at zero-dark to go on a X mile run. Man,if you had a string of good callers on a run,you'd hear guys singing to themselves all day while they did whatever task.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2016 11:11 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 16 Mar 2016 11:11:29 -0400

People are forgetting how to do them and get lazy. No one wants to step it up anymore. To me I think it's really sad. Used to be everyone did cadences. The purpose of them, is to help run long distances, but even in short runs. Should practice for when it is company, battalion or brigade level run

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2016 11:40 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 16 Mar 2016 11:40:18 -0400

I agree,it is a dying art in today's army. I personally love cadence, DNC and everything that involves leading soldiers. It upsets me to see my peers, fellow Non-Commissioned Officers in the rear hiding or falling out during Company/Battalion & higher runs. As a NCO, you lead from the front, not the rear. If you have no soul to put yourself out there to lead soldiers, take those stripes off and go be a junior enlisted or civilian. I've seen specialist and privates lead formations during runs. Of course, CSM and 1SG has the case of the ass with their NCO's but I'm like oh hell no. Nobody E-4 & below, will take my five secs of fame (no offense). That's a leaders time to shine. and for me, I rock the mic literally until my voice cracks and I go hoarse. and then I call NCOs out to follow suit. But then you have these politically correct ppl who always try to shut you up if you say offensive material. I say if you ain't out there, then you have nothing to say. Its all heart when you lead!

Response by SFC Craig Dalen made Mar 16 at 2016 11:47 AM

SFC Craig Dalen — Wed, 16 Mar 2016 11:47:46 -0400

I believe that it is. With the new PRT there isn't much room for it. With that being said I loved the old school "motivational runs". It is great when building a team of individuals into something more meaningful.

Response by 1SG Raymond M Baker Jr made Mar 16 at 2016 5:16 PM

1SG Raymond M Baker Jr — Wed, 16 Mar 2016 17:16:11 -0400

As a former 1SG I always called cadence when we marched anywhere, even in Desert Storm, I called cadences every time we marched somewhere

Response by SSG John Jensen made Mar 17 at 2016 2:56 AM

SSG John Jensen — Thu, 17 Mar 2016 02:56:18 -0400

back in the early '80s one run cadence was stopped when CO said we couldn't sing that, start song, stop: start song, stop; it was a terrible run. Soon after saw someone's letter to Army Times complaining of it. The Army's response was not that we don't do those songs anymore; the Army's response was that we never sang those songs! When I reached the NCO later I refused to sing, I would tell people later why. I agreed that we shouldn't sing those songs, sexist, racist, and other things, one Marine song in Jump School that was XX. I disagree with the Army that we "Never Sang those Songs"!!

Response by SPC Jacob Sharp made Mar 17 at 2016 2:33 PM

SPC Jacob Sharp — Thu, 17 Mar 2016 14:33:31 -0400

I despise cadence. I already hate running, so nothing makes that worse than having to endure the false motivation that is cadence calling.

Response by Maj Dwayne Helton made Mar 17 at 2016 10:00 PM

Maj Dwayne Helton — Thu, 17 Mar 2016 22:00:18 -0400

I am fortunate that my new job after retirement allows me to observe the weekly Air Force graduations. I am proud to say that cadences are alive an well in the Air Force. Maybe not the good ole ones from my days (not PC) but I still hear the "Mama mama can't you see..." each week!

Response by SSgt Liam Babington made Mar 17 at 2016 11:07 PM

SSgt Liam Babington — Thu, 17 Mar 2016 23:07:30 -0400

I am saddened to even think that cadence is a dying art!!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 9 at 2019 6:07 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 09 Sep 2019 18:07:15 -0400

The only runs you can actually call cadences for are slow unit formation runs, of the top of my head, if the pace is 830 or better you aren’t supposed to call cadence.

Response by Cadet CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 4 at 2020 12:49 AM

Cadet CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 04 Jan 2020 00:49:54 -0500

My unit never really calls cadences either, which sucks. Main problem is people not taking initiative to learn new ones. Hearing “CPT Jack”, “Momma Momma” or “C-130” over and over again “demoralizes” (Aka pisses off) everyone running, so then everyone gives up on calling cadence, etc. I’ve got some more unique ones that I like memorized, but since I’m a Boot they don’t ask me too often to call it. Damn shame, but oh well.