Is college a good excuse for not attending drill?

2014-08-26T09:58:33-04:00

The MDARNG units I have went to, have a lot of MUTA 6s or 2x2x2. This sometimes makes it extremely hard to complete college assignments by their due date. With 58th BfSB, it looks like i only have one drill in conflict with this semester.... how do you handle soldiers and college? It is a valid excuse to not attend a MUTA 6 or annual Training? I had an NCO tell me that the soldier should not take a class during Annual training dates.... for 2 weeks of training out of a semester? that just sounds unrealistic. I always see college as a priority for soldiers, they are taking the time to progress themselves. If their is no way to get internet or their would be no time they could complete their assignments, i would approve the SUTA...

Response by 1SG Michael Blount made Aug 26 at 2014 10:06 AM

2014-08-26T10:06:47-04:00

SFC Private RallyPoint Member - that's when you use RSTs. I have Soldiers attending classes and I understand that occasional, unavoidable conflict. The key words here are occasional and unavoidable. I raise more than an eyebrow when the same people are using the same excuses, especially when we just happen to be having an APFT or FTX that weekend.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 26 at 2014 10:28 AM

2014-08-26T10:28:57-04:00

SFC Private RallyPoint Member I tend to agree that college is a priority. However, there are alternatives to just missing a drill. In Texas, I can have a Soldier "pre-drill" (important as this is how units get the constructive credit for the Soldier's attendance as opposed to making up drill after the fact. This effects training dollars for your unit and state.) for that Friday if it is a MUTA 6 which I have in October. Another point to consider is this: if a unit's leadership is doing their job and providing a drill schedule for the entire FY well in advance, it should not come as a surprise to the Soldiers who are in school or otherwise engaged. As far as Annual Training is concerned, I would advise Soldiers to not take classes either unless it was a class that was only offered during that time period. If that were the case, I would make a case for an alternate AT if available for the Soldier.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 26 at 2014 10:57 AM

2014-08-26T10:57:53-04:00

I transferred to 58th in May, and the drill memo I had received was changed four times, according to other NCOs, so I know schedule change is a little bit of an issue. I make it work with my schedule, luckily I go to UMUC, and they seem to work with soldiers... I give for warning to my professor that I am guard and am doing a drill that would potentially lead into an assignment coming in late. Some schools are not that flexible with soldiers... I have just seen soldiers struggle to complete classes because a drill schedule change or their NCO not allowing them to make up drill before/after to finish assignments.

1SG Michael Blount Those are the drills I LOVE going to! I will fight my professor for an extension before missing an FTX/APFT.

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 26 at 2014 12:00 PM

2014-08-26T12:00:04-04:00

College is by NO means a good excuse to miss drill. I graduated Magna Cum Laude with a Bachelors of Science in Biology while drilling and never missing a drill or training date. My college was 4.5 hours away from my duty station and I was never late to drill. When I went to Norway for a two week annual training, I took my organic chemistry book with me and completed the exams I missed the day I returned. I took the Medical College Admissions Test the same day I drove from MN to PEC to attend Unit Movement Officer Course. Yes, college is a way for Soldier progression, but your duties as a Soldier come first. Your college and professors are legally required to accommodate Soldiers military training needs. Yes, you may have to reschedule a test or submit an assignment at an incontinent time for you but you must also remember, the National Guard is most likely paying for these Soldiers tuition. I have had Soldier’s professors email me exams to proctor during MUTA 6 drills; there is always a work around.

Response by A1C Peter Anthony made Jan 4 at 2015 11:55 AM

2015-01-04T11:55:56-05:00

I understand college is important , but obligation to duty comes first!! After all I assume military is paying the bill!!

Response by 1SG Michael Blount made Jan 4 at 2015 10:18 PM

2015-01-04T22:18:12-05:00

College is a priority. So is drill. Since BA schedules are published well in advance, Soldiers have plenty of warning and should plan accordingly. Unless a midterm or final is involved, college is not an excuse or missing drill. Both my former Commander and XO attended both drill AND law school. If they can do it, so can anyone else.

Response by COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM made Jan 4 at 2015 10:30 PM

2015-01-04T22:30:12-05:00

- I started out enlisted in MNARNG and have two AC/RC assignments.
- Short answer, no. College is not a good excuse for not attending drill.
- From a Soldier perspective. The key to success is planning and communication. Know both your annual drill schedule and your college course schedule. Communicate early and often with both your NG chain of command and also with your college professors. Deconflict as much as possible. Where you can not deconflict, again, communicate with both your chain of command and your professors to work out what should be priority.
- From a chain of command perspective, you need to make decisions on a case by case basis but you need to have some sort of criteria to weigh and approve or disapprove each request.
- College is no different than a civilian primary employer in terms of this question. Take out college and would "is my primary employer a good excuse for not attending drill" drive you to the same answer either from a Soldier or from a chain of command perspective?
- The way you worded your question, you imply that college should always take precedence over your NG duties. Apologies if I inferred incorrectly. Obviously I disagree that college should always take precedence but there may be times such as end of term exams where college might take precedence especially when non critical events are planned for the drill weekend.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 4 at 2015 11:08 PM

2015-01-04T23:08:34-05:00

I am of the exact opposite opinion. You're a Soldier first, Student second. You get your college money free and clear from the army when you complete your enlistment. The fact you get it while you are fulfilling that obligation is a bonus. If there is a conflict, army should always come first. No soldier goes into the service without knowing the requirements regardless of active or reserve. I hate that troops somehow wiggle out of attendance by using college excuses. I attend. I still manage to maintain a 4.0 and I RARELY miss drill and NEVER miss AT. Or did I miss the part where you swore an oath to the university?? My opinion of course.

Response by SFC Jesus Garcia made May 28 at 2015 2:05 PM

2015-05-28T14:05:04-04:00

No excuses. incorporate college with drill, with today's technology you can be there at a satellite location, talk to SIGO and your command for clearance.

Response by CAPT Don Bosch, EdD made Jun 6 at 2015 6:06 AM

2015-06-06T06:06:52-04:00

I'm also with the no's on this one. College is important personal development, but the Army is a contract and an oath. The only way to make college a priority is wrap up your service or go IRR until you're done (if that's an option for you). But a good chance to learn time management and schedule negotiation in the meantime. :-)

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Mar 11 at 2017 10:46 PM

2017-03-11T22:46:11-05:00

Looking at your profile, I notice you are a technician at the JFHQ in an area that directly relates to your degree. Is it possible to volunteer for some sort of constructive credit for a missed portion of a drill or AT to accommodate what you can't reschedule academically?

From my AC/RC days, they always seem to need someone to go down early or come back late in direct support of the unit's training (sign for buildings, draw equipment, clear billets etc).

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2017 5:08 PM

2017-03-16T17:08:23-04:00

sgt I have to say no, you need to communicated to your profs, and college is not a priority, you signed the papers took the oath, provide your prof with your schedule, just like anybody else with a job does, make arrangements, if the prof isn't willing work with you take it to the schools admin, most colleges/tech schools receive federal funding, if a complaint goes out they might lose their money, the other thing is don't wait till the suspense date to complete your assignment, get it done right away then you wont be hanging in the wind, I was young once and have been there

Response by Cpl Tom Surdi made Mar 18 at 2017 2:41 PM

2017-03-18T14:41:00-04:00

Absolutely not. Your Military training is detrimental to Unit Cohesion, discipline and your units ability to function as a team. When you prioritize your personal goals over that of your units goals, you essentially create a weak link in your unit. When you know your Military commitments will come into conflict with you education, you talk to your professors about it and make a plan for the work you may miss, talk to friends about getting access to their notes. I personally wouldn't want anyone in my unit who missed training, I wouldn't be able to count on you in the field to do your job properly. And when it's my life and the life of those I serve over in the balance, you damn well better be prepared. Your education will always be there for you to pick back up when you return.

Response by Kaye Siragusa made Aug 23 at 2017 4:42 PM

2017-08-23T16:42:12-04:00

In this instance, the NG soldier is newly-assigned, having just finished AIT and just received drill schedule. Unfortunately also in a speciality college course this semester. For first Drill weekend with new unit, college is on a 10-day Wilderness First Responder Certification course, encompassing 2 weekends. This interferes with drill weekend. How to handle?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 24 at 2017 11:42 AM

2017-08-24T11:42:22-04:00

That would be up to the commander to approve RST's for such conflicts. If the student is up front with their schedule and any conflict ahead of time and none of this last minute stuff.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 26 at 2017 1:59 PM

2017-10-26T13:59:12-04:00

As a college student myself, I would say there are certainly instances where college could and should come first. It has to be prefaced that these individuals, as students, are trying to set themselves up for success. This is what Army leadership preaches constantly... "take care of your Soldiers, set your Soldiers up for success" and so on. This kind of issue needs to be put into perspective. Being in the reserve or guard, you are a Soldier 2 days a month and another two weeks for AT. Outside of that, you are a civilian pursuing civilian aspirations, more than likely. This isn't Active duty. Many Soldiers serve in a reserve component precisely to be able to pursue educational goals. Ultimately, this issue should be put in perspective. A college education and one's GPA can carry with it the weight to determine one's future career opportunities. Is it right for military leadership to be wholly dismissive of an individual's grades and aspirations? To answer the question... no, I don't see drill specifically being detrimental enough that it should be missed for college purposes. AT on the other hand, tends to be the biggest issue for Soldiers. It is my opinion that it should be handled on a case by case basis, but I don't see why a compromise couldn't be reached if the time away from school would be greatly detrimental for the Soldier. After all, it is their future that is at stake. That, to me, is worth supporting.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 6 at 2018 12:09 AM

2018-08-06T00:09:12-04:00

No.

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Aug 6 at 2018 7:18 AM

2018-08-06T07:18:45-04:00

No.

Response by CPL Brendan Hayes made Aug 6 at 2018 9:57 AM

2018-08-06T09:57:08-04:00

SFC Private RallyPoint Member I earned my undergrad degree while in the ILARNG. During my entire enlistment I missed a half a day of a MUTA 6 due to class conflict (final exam). If it's once in a while, professors/instructors and usually pretty good at making it work, so if the soldier is willing to make up the time in a constructive manner, it is generous of you to offer a little latitude. With that said, if the soldier is abusing your understanding, you don't always have to understand.

Response by PFC Adam Murray made Dec 8 at 2019 10:15 PM

2019-12-08T22:15:41-05:00

Soldiering is a priority for soldiers.
The rest is gravy.
Serve.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 11 at 2020 10:09 AM

2020-02-11T10:09:29-05:00

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Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 20 at 2020 5:37 AM

2020-07-20T05:37:42-04:00

I finished my junior & senior year of BA while in the NG with a predeployment op tempo and working 40 hours a week. Muta 6-12 monthly. Schools that were 120 hours and 21 day ATs. If you provide your teachers with your schedule they are by law required to give you time to make up assignments. I at one point was 4 weeks behind in all my classes. They had to work with me whether they liked it or not. Some people might have to take an “incomplete” and finish at their own pace after the quarter/semester. I think communication is key. There were a lot of times when my leadership released me early for school purposes because we were sitting on our asses the last few hours of drill. Or I’d bring my school work in and instead of playing grab ass do it until our next hip pocket training. As far as the soldier going to 2 weeks of AT, I think that they should take maybe a 2/3 course load. Preferably easy courses with a teacher that they have like. Bring study materials to AT for when they hurry up and wait. Then it’s in the soldier to get after it when they get back. I had to do it, and yes it sucked along with being inconvenient to not get a whole quarter done. But the Army also was paying me to go to school the quarter. The teachers have to be accommodating or it violates USSERA and probably a state law. I know in Washington it violates state law.

Response by SGT Tom Recupero made Jul 22 at 2020 8:14 AM

2020-07-22T08:14:13-04:00

While in the Reserves I was allowed to do alternate annual trainings with other companies in the battalion/brigade. We eventually had almost all AT’s in the summer which I did not take summer classes/only went the one summer session that wasn’t around that time. Although it seemed like every time I had a Monday exam/big project it was a drill weekend or had Friday classes and for some reason had drill on Friday even though we could have gotten everything done on Sat Sun, like we used to do and don’t even get me started in the Thursday night drills... what the hell is that? Active duty now. Also, drills are generally pointless, they could just do a month in the summer and save tons of money