Is combat required to be called a Combat medic?

2016-05-16T12:08:11-04:00

When I was in Germany in the early '80s, a fellow medic wrote on a form "Combat Medic" for his MOS. When our Platoon Sargent(a Vietnam veteran) saw that, he made the private change it, and told him that he has never seen combat, and therefore, is not a "Combat Medic". So, does one have to have seen actual combat to take the title Combat Medic, or Combat Engineer or anything else you can put 'Combat' in front of? Or is it enough to simply have served in a combat zone?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2016 12:10 PM

2016-05-16T12:10:51-04:00

Personally, as someone who had not deployed I do not refer to myself as a combat medic. I don't think I have earned that title.

Response by MAJ Andrew Ready made May 16 at 2016 12:18 PM

2016-05-16T12:18:53-04:00

i think combat should be added to every MOS.

Response by MSG David Johnson made May 16 at 2016 12:19 PM

2016-05-16T12:19:51-04:00

I don't think here is an ASI that delineates a medic from a combat medic. What is your MOS? Do you have an ASI of "combat" medic?
That sounds like the question that comes up even though leadership tries to down play it; the question is this, were you wounded, or "combat" wounded. Is your injury from tripping in the shower? Or from being blown up while clearing a route.

Did I totally confuse you? In my own humble opinion, because I saw what my medic did on a near daily occurrence, Yes, there is a difference between a medic and a combat medic. Does it differentiate when one medic has the CMB and another doesn't?

Response by SPC Joseph Morgan made May 16 at 2016 12:31 PM

2016-05-16T12:31:21-04:00

"Combat" Medic is earned otherwise just a medic...line-medic, evac-medic, infantry-medic & so on. The MOS is exactly Health-Care Specialist.

Response by SGT Jeffrey Dennis made May 16 at 2016 12:33 PM

2016-05-16T12:33:47-04:00

Negative. There is no combat requirement to be a combat medic, or combat engineer. The day you graduate from the US Army's Combat Medic School, You are a Combat Medic. You must have seen combat to wear the Combat Medical Badge.

Response by MSgt Chris Chambre made May 16 at 2016 12:35 PM

2016-05-16T12:35:23-04:00

Was he trained to treat combat wounds? Would said NCO prevent this medic from treating him if he were gut shot? Just cause he wasnt in combat doesn't mean he isn't fully prepared to operate. Some of these guys think there is something magically different between a shooting victim in East St Louis and one in Afganistan, let me tell you there ain't, they all want mommy.

Response by SGT Kyle Johnson made May 16 at 2016 12:36 PM

2016-05-16T12:36:18-04:00

I was assigned to the 82nd Combat Engineers, we were combat engineers.. during my time we were protecting the Fulda Gap... Maybe we should have just been engineers since there was no fighting going on.. but our Vietman vets in the unit could be? But, that is not what the MOS name said... 12B Combat Engineer, never heard it brought up once about the name.

Response by MSG David Johnson made May 16 at 2016 12:44 PM

2016-05-16T12:44:29-04:00

Combat Engineer is an actual MOS, so I take umbrage with you saying we just "stick" combat in front of Engineer.
Here are 2 MOS's in the 12 series that are 'Combat'
12B Combat Engineer
12Z Combat Engineering Senior Sergeant.
My other comment still applies.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2016 12:47 PM

2016-05-16T12:47:28-04:00

This is the same argument could be made for "veteran" and "combat veteran".

Firstly our MOS is no longer "medic" "combat medic" etc... We are health care specialists! (Sarcasim)

It is a significant thing though. To me when I meet new medics (not new to the army just new to me) first thing I look for is a deployment patch. Why? Well with all of us required to go through a certain school now prior to deployment I can bank on that individual having that experiance. I narrow it down again by simple conversation. What type of unit did they serve in while in combat theather? Are we talking CSH or an infantry platoon?

End of the day what it boils down to is experiance. There (as we all know) is the book way(to EFMB standard) of treating a combat casualty, then there is the right way. a "combat medic" that has been through the ringer and came out the other side means but one thing. Which is that I can at least trust that medic in a tight spot.

But does it make a better medic? I would say so.

As I always describe our job to folks we're the armies safety glue. Where there is a medical shortage you can plug in a medic in just about any role. Nurse shortage? Toss in medics. Tech shortages? Medic. Super dangerous experimental testing with radioactive spiders? Two medics in a barely running FLA will do.

Instead of hunting that "combat medic" title I'd rather a medic that hunts for knowledge to provide better care to a patient regardless of environment.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made May 16 at 2016 12:48 PM

2016-05-16T12:48:04-04:00

I would have to say it depends on what the Official Description of the MOS/NEC says. If it says Combat Medic, Once you completed the school technically you can claim it.

Response by SGT Victoria Belbusti made May 16 at 2016 12:54 PM

2016-05-16T12:54:48-04:00

Well I haven't been to combat, so I call myself a medic. Also officially we are healthcare specialists. I'd call line medics who've deployed to a combat zone and earned their CMB "combat medic" over a medic who is assigned to a hospital unit. However I am at Ft Sam reclassing and they do have "home of the combat medic" all over the place. We are all trained in combat medicine. But I find it to be a misnomer as it didn't feel right to call myself combat medic when I did range converge for BCT at Benning.

Response by SPC Neil Hood made May 16 at 2016 1:20 PM

2016-05-16T13:20:55-04:00

It's Healthcare Specialist for a reason.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2016 1:36 PM

2016-05-16T13:36:25-04:00

I think that combat as related to MOS should be just that for direct combat MOS's ie Infantryman Medic in combat unit, engineer. How does Combat PAC NCOIC sound. Don't think it applies to every case. Yes I sered in RVN assigned as personnel specialist/Company clerk got assigned to an MP unit where I was RTO operator supporting Infantry escort, saw bullets fly. I'm not a combat Vet. I'm a RVN Vet.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2016 2:06 PM

2016-05-16T14:06:55-04:00

What does PAM DA PAM 611–21 say you are?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2016 2:07 PM

2016-05-16T14:07:47-04:00

Combat Medic, or even Medic for that matter, is not the name of any current MOS in the Army. Army "Medics" are officially titled "Health Care Specialist" (68W). Most of them identify as "Medic", regardless of skill level or combat experience.

That said, I have seen 68Ws assigned or attached to "Combat Arms" Units identify themselves as "Combat Medics".

Personally, I wouldn't identify myself as a "Combat Medic" at any point, because "Combat Medicine" is only a part of my job as a Health Care Specialist ("Medic").

I do believe however, that if a "Medic" wanted to identify as a "Combat Medic", they should only do so after receiving their Combat Medical Badge.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2016 2:30 PM

2016-05-16T14:30:54-04:00

Personal experience-anecdotal at best ;) : When I joined the actual MOS on initial orders was either "Combat Medic" or "Health-Care Specialist" depending on whose orders you were looking at, but were still both 68W.
I went to AIT at Ft Sam and that was a lot of confusion between the Soldier Medics saying "I don't belong here...I'm a health-care specialist" or "I don't belong here, I'm Combat Medic"...and the instructors had to explain to us that they were one and the same. This is when they had combined the two aspects of the MOS into the single 91W (where before it was divided into essentially two MOS' one combat oriented, one hospital oriented).
I can understand taking issue with the term "combat" if someone has never seen combat however, this is their job. Would you change the title for any other MOS because they hadn't seen action? Their primary job is to provide medical care in a combat environment, I think it's an appropriate term. An additional concern is that you take away the term "combat" and suddenly a Soldier Medic might forget (become complacent) that their primary duty is to serve in a deployed environment.
Much like MAJ Andrew Ready suggested earlier, I think combat should be added to every MOS to serve as a reminder.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2016 2:48 PM

2016-05-16T14:48:07-04:00

I make it simple, if I'm in the BAS I'm a healthcare specialist. When I'm out on the range or somewhere where I'm carrying arms(m9 or m4 according to Geneva convention) I'm the combat medic or "doc" whatever they call me at that point.

Response by SSG Dennis Grossmann made May 16 at 2016 2:55 PM

2016-05-16T14:55:15-04:00

It's in your job title. The right sleeve shows the combat combat medic

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2016 3:08 PM

2016-05-16T15:08:23-04:00

Well now that the MOS title has changed, we're all combat medics, regardless of your feelings about it

Response by SGT Charles W. made May 16 at 2016 3:10 PM

2016-05-16T15:10:55-04:00

Actually, it's the job description I signed up for, so as far as I'm concerned, that's what I put on my resume.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2016 4:40 PM

2016-05-16T16:40:22-04:00

I call myself a Healthcare Specialist because that's what I am. I haven't done anything to earn that title. Just because I went through a somewhat difficult AIT does not give me the right to call myself a Combat Medic.

Response by SPC Carlos R. made May 16 at 2016 5:33 PM

2016-05-16T17:33:28-04:00

In 1996 it was called Medic Specialist. I don't think we ever used the Combat medic designation but instead where called Medic. Eventually we got called "Doc" by the unit. That was a real compliment.

If you saw combat you had CMB.

I never consider myself a combat medic as I never saw combat but made sure that I knew my skills as the lives of my friend would depend on it. I think all medic have a lot of responsibility to stay current. I was bless to have an senior NCO that had seen action and made us constantly train for such scenario.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2016 5:52 PM

2016-05-16T17:52:29-04:00

No. "Combat" in this case refers to situations were the military trained soldier can use the skills compared to a civilian medical situation. It is similar to how "combat" is used in combat lifesaver.

This differs from an actual requirement of combat action that one might see in the CIB, for example.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2016 6:31 PM

2016-05-16T18:31:24-04:00

I personally won't call myself a combat medic. I feel like I haven't earned that title unless I see combat. I know plenty of people who have earned their CMB, and I feel like I'd be belittling their title and accomplishment by calling myself one.

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made May 16 at 2016 9:04 PM

2016-05-16T21:04:23-04:00

The last time I checked 12B was called combat engineer. Says nothing about having to be in combat before being called a 12B. You are trained to do a job in combat - so what?

Response by MSG Les Amaya made May 16 at 2016 9:26 PM

2016-05-16T21:26:03-04:00

You train to be combat medic but you might never see combat. It is how and when you use the tittle combat medic. If you trying to impress people when you haven't seen combat then it is wrong. Like a poser!

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2016 10:25 PM

2016-05-16T22:25:43-04:00

I've never heard a medic identify by anything other than "line medic."

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2016 6:39 AM

2016-05-17T06:39:46-04:00

Combat medic title is actually dependent on your unit. My first unit was a 12B (combat engineer) company making my title on my ERB "combat medic. Then I moved to my new unit who are 12N(horizontal construction engineers) now my ERB says I'm a health care specialist

Response by PFC Brian Lesnikowski made May 17 at 2016 6:57 AM

2016-05-17T06:57:11-04:00

The sgt should've taken his bitching to the DOA of DOD? The course MOS was COMBAT MEDICAL SPECIALIST. Then 91A Combat Medic now 68W Healthcare Specialist. Which in my opinion sounds so frigging GAY. Hell by the time u yell HEALTHCARE SPECIALIST you'll have already bled to death

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2016 8:50 AM

2016-05-17T08:50:47-04:00

I have seen combat and still refer to myself only as "medic". Some medics act like they have to have that combat at the beginning as a badge of honor. But as long as I get called "Doc" by my guys that's means I am respected and trusted for the job I do

Response by SFC Denise VanLaarhoven made May 17 at 2016 8:55 AM

2016-05-17T08:55:16-04:00

For all of you who came in after we were changed from 91A/B to 68W, the original title of a medic as a 91A was Combat Medic... then we got all PC and changed it to Healthcare Specialist... I came in the Army in 1984 as a 91A-Combat Medic... then I went to Super B school(what was grandfathered two years later into BNCOC). Going from 91A to 91B was an actual change of MOS back then.. And we went from being Combat Medics to Super B's. Now we're "Healthcare Specialist" Thank you, to all you politically correct wussies who didn't want to hear anything about combat in a designation. And yes, I went to combat, but I was called it before I got there. It was actually the title... still have schoolhouse books/modules with the title on it in my attic...

Response by SPC Lance Loyer made May 17 at 2016 9:10 AM

2016-05-17T09:10:17-04:00

I personally do not refer to myself as a combat medic because I have not deployed, nor seen combat. I understand the confusion that comes from the title of healthcare specialist and if you ask the average line soldier what they refer to us as its "medic" or "doc". Of the two I find it far more bothersome when people refer to me as "doc". I haven't earned that name and don't really feel its my place to be referred to that way. Mind you my father is a Vietnam era vet, ironically a combat medic with three years spent there, and he and all of his friends refer to me as doc just like the do to him. It drives me nuts because I feel I haven't earned the same level of respect that he did. I however have no issue with a 68W in a line unit being referred to as a medic, that's what we do.

Response by SSG Timothy Smith made May 17 at 2016 9:48 AM

2016-05-17T09:48:23-04:00

As an old school medic, my MOS was "Combat Medic" as this is what we were trained to do prior to some nit whit changing us to Healthcare Specialist. It has nothing to do with combat, wear the name proudly. I have never once called myself anything else.

Response by MSG Mark Million made May 17 at 2016 10:51 AM

2016-05-17T10:51:26-04:00

The "Combat" in the term Combat Medic refers to someone who is expected to be able to perform medical treatments in a combat environment, I believe this is mostly geared towards ensuring recruits have a better understanding of the expectations for the MOS.

Response by MSgt Michael Gaddis made May 17 at 2016 11:38 AM

2016-05-17T11:38:07-04:00

Ask that question to anyone assigned to a Combat Camera camera unit.

Response by SGT Eliyahu Rooff made May 17 at 2016 1:11 PM

2016-05-17T13:11:33-04:00

I suppose that what you call yourself depends on where you are and what the culture of the unit is like. When I was with Infantry units, I was a combat medic to them. During the unfortunate year I spent with an Armor company, I was "just a medic" to them. Riding in a M113 was a lot easier than walking, but I'll take Infantry any day.

Response by MCPO Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2016 1:23 PM

2016-05-17T13:23:03-04:00

Your argument is almost as valid as saying that anybody that writes, "Infantryman," for their MOS isn't really in the Infantry unless they've seen combat. Sgt Wilcox, you are an idot... too stupid to even correctly spell, "Idiot."

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2016 4:38 PM

2016-05-17T16:38:25-04:00

Here's my question why do Flight Medics who actively participated in combat do not receive CMB but CAB instead and do you still call them healthcare specialists or simply flight medics? Can they put down on resume Combat Medic?

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2016 4:38 PM

2016-05-17T16:38:56-04:00

Why get worried about the little stuff? What's on the MTOE? Healthcare Specialist? On the field, no one yells "Combat Medic!" Doc is a term of endearment you earn, medic is the usual nickname, healthcare or trauma specialist is what would be on your resume. I respect the EFMB way more than the CFMB. one is seeking greatness while the other might be having greatness thrust upon you.

Response by SSG Javier Antonsanti made May 17 at 2016 5:28 PM

2016-05-17T17:28:30-04:00

Will everyone just get over yourselves, over the whole "combat" thing. I don't recall anyone in the late 80's and through must of the 90's getting butt hurt over titles.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made May 17 at 2016 6:44 PM

2016-05-17T18:44:23-04:00

"Combat" is an adjective that describes the environment that medic is trained to operate in. It is not a qualifier.

Response by SPC James Anderson made May 17 at 2016 6:51 PM

2016-05-17T18:51:50-04:00

I served 98-02. Never went anywhere but NTC, only combat I saw was bar fights in Aggieville downtown Manhattan KS, but my DD-214 shows I took a week long "Combat Medic" Class. Its the name of a class, people need to brush the sand out and quit getting butt hurt over everything. People are starting to see stolen valor like a bad case of the 6th sense. My MOS was 14R. Bradley Linebacker, front line air defense. Do i need to serve in a major war that has front lines to be able to claim that MOS? Lots of major shit out in the real world to worry about, I suggest we drop some of this minor shit and get on with it.

Response by SGT Jeffrey Dennis made May 17 at 2016 6:55 PM

2016-05-17T18:55:22-04:00

The day you graduate from the "Department of Combat Medical Training", you are a Combat Medic. Your instructors and commanders hand you a Combat Medic certificate, and tell you that you are, and will always be a "Combat Medic". Just like receiving your "Combat Engineer" MOS. Healthcare Specialist came around when they changed the MOS code, and made you get EMT-B qualified. That added responsibilities to your title, It didn't remove "combat" from it. I was prior service, and already had deployed, so I didn't face this dilemma. Also, you will be called "Doc" before your deployed, if you earn it. The EFMB is the Expert Field Medical Badge, not the Expert Healthcare Specialist Badge. I've been shot at, but that is not what made me a Combat Medic. Your skill makes you a combat medic, not being deployed. That is the whole reason they came out with the CMB, to distinguish between "Soldier Medics" who have been deployed and those who haven't.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2016 10:25 PM

2016-05-17T22:25:47-04:00

pretty sure They (68W) are healthcare specialists. There is no MOS that is titled combat medic or even medic.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2016 3:04 AM

2016-05-18T03:04:12-04:00

68W IS COMBAT MEDIC... If you serve as such you are a Combat Medic...

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2016 10:40 AM

2016-05-18T10:40:24-04:00

Titles don't matter.
These three simple truths matter.

There are 3 rules in combat:
1. Good men will die.
2. Doc can't save everyone.
3. Doc will go through hell to change rules 1 and 2.

We'll take whatever title you give us. Even if we hate it, we didn't enlist for the title.

Response by SGT Art O'Hagan made May 18 at 2016 10:43 AM

2016-05-18T10:43:16-04:00

Back in 1971...I EARNED the MOS of 91-B (Bravo)...or "Combat Medic"...that was the official designation for 91-B..."Combat Medic"...I was trained to do "dirt medicine"...I never saw combat...but that doesn't change the MOS title the Army attached to 91-B..."Combat Medic"...that Platoon Sgt was wrong...my C-File says "Combat Medic" in the MOS line...so, let the ignorant Platoon Sgt. tell the Army they're wrong...LOL...

Response by MAJ Haris Balcinovic made May 18 at 2016 10:50 AM

2016-05-18T10:50:07-04:00

Oh sweet Jesus and the semantics - so 12B Combat Engineers are not Combat if they don't serve in combat. It's the f@#$ing MOS for the position a Soldier (service member) is in, if and when they they deploy is irrelevant. I've deployed 3 times, but I don't tell my guys who are 12Bs nope you're just an engineer until you deploy.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made May 19 at 2016 9:24 PM

2016-05-19T21:24:42-04:00

This is such an interesting question......I had never thought of calling myself anything but a combat medic. I was trained and then went on to attain the LPN license which now deems me a 68W. There has been so many changes in the titles in the last twenty years. I have gone to every place the military has ever told me to go, but after having children my husband I agreed not to volunteer for any combat tours. The military always deemed that my skill-set was needed CONUS. I am trained and therefore I consider myself a combat medic. I have applied these skills in the civilian setting at vehicle and BMX related accidents. I think that the point the Soldier was trying to make is that the MOS is currently titled "medical specialist." The training is totally geared toward combat care and not the clinical setting. I also believe that some Soldiers feel that unless you serve in a combat zone, you do not deserve or understand the experience. I feel that this judgement is rather unfortunate because you might be overlooking the value of great Soldiers because they don't have a patch. Soldiers do not always choose their path. The important thing is to do the best and give all that you have to the position and situation in which you find yourself. I have listed below the history of titles and number changes related to the "Combat Medic". Honored to serve........1SG Christie Fields
*************
It makes me Currently known as 68W, the Army's basic medical MOS was changed, effective October 1, 2006. During the Vietnam War era, the MOS codes 91W (91 Whiskey, nuclear medicine specialist), 91B (91 Bravo, medical NCO) and 91A (91 Alpha, medical corpsman) were used.

The Department of the Army Deputy Chief of Staff for Personnel issued a notice for future change for the MOS 91B and 91C (Licensed Practical Nurse) in September 1999. The notice established the transition of personnel holding both MOSs to 91W to begin on 1 October 2001 and end on 30 September 2007. The 91W MOS required additional training and the maintenance of civilian EMT certification which was previously optional for soldiers. Army personnel holding MOS 91C would become 91Ws (and later 68Ws) with an additional skill identifier of M6. During the transitory period, all 91B and 91C classified soldiers were given the Y2 identifier until completion of additional training to become 91W, reclassification to a different MOS, or discharge from the US Army.

Response by SPC Brian Mason made May 20 at 2016 11:11 PM

2016-05-20T23:11:57-04:00

Yes. Why? We are trained as EMT's. EMT's are NOT trained in combat skills and do NOT see combat. That is what police are for. We are also trained other variety of medical field skills. That does NOT make us combat, it makes us EMERGENCY Trauma and Medicine. Combat revolves around us being attacked and having to defend ourselves.
There is an entire museum in Texas about the history of the Medic. To cheapen it by giving that title to undeployed, non-combat experienced medics is sad and insulting to those who have died and us who have earned it.

Response by SGT Jeff Hanson made May 21 at 2016 6:19 PM

2016-05-21T18:19:07-04:00

I simply referred to myself as a "Whiskey". If more description was requested then I would respond with "68 Whiskey, medic". I'm sure there was a time where I felt the need to toot my horn; by the end of my career I was more concerned with weather or not the Joe's trusted me enough to come to me when they needed me rather than what I called myself. Knowing your guys trust you is so much more gratifying than a title.....at least for me.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 26 at 2016 3:42 PM

2016-05-26T15:42:59-04:00

No it is not. But a 68W's primary training is in the treatment of Battlefield Casualties. That it would seem is where this might come from.

Response by MSgt P H. made Jun 1 at 2016 11:13 AM

2016-06-01T11:13:22-04:00

As a member of a sister service, USAF, who was lucky enough to have had the opportunity to train with some of the best medical personnel in 3 branches. I received the EFMB back in 1994, prior to that I was a EMT-B and Flight medic. I wore that EFMB badge with honor because in my branch not many were able to accomplish, nor be afforded the opportunity to, gain that badge. I was also trained in Swift water rescue, High to low angle rope rescue, Wilderness advanced rescue and Dive Medicine Technician/ Hyperbarics. I worked for and with SF units and Marine units. I have seen the African savanna and the deep cold of the Arctic, I have worked SERE and Helo-rescue, I was a Independent duty medic / Paramedic for 15 years. But with all that I never considered myself a "Combat" medic until bullets flew and friends fell. Doesn't the Army make that distinction also? Doesn't it state that the "Combat Medic Badge" is Awarded for Performing medical duties while being actively engaged by the enemy. Otherwise it is just an "Expert Field Medical Badge"

Response by SGT Bryan Stanley made Aug 26 at 2016 11:22 PM

2016-08-26T23:22:42-04:00

We are called combat medics because our training is geared toward a combat environment. We get clinical training too, but that is not our main focus. That is why we also have the Expert Field Medical Badge (EFMB), of which I'm a recipient. All the tasks are common tasks and medical tasks in a simulated combat environment. I was also in Germany in the late 80's. SGT Wilcox, where were you stationed?

Response by SGT Victoria Belbusti made Dec 8 at 2016 7:18 PM

2016-12-08T19:18:59-05:00

Update. They changed 68W's from healthcare specialist back to combat medic.

Response by MSG Mark Million made Jan 12 at 2017 12:50 PM

2017-01-12T12:50:28-05:00

Reposting as my original response is buried way down in the chaff.
The "Combat" in the term Combat Medic refers to someone who is expected to be able to perform medical treatments in a combat environment, I believe this is mostly geared towards ensuring recruits have a better understanding of the expectations for the MOS. Many of the manuals for medics are titled or reference "Combat Medic". It is referring to what those medics are expected to be able to do, not what they have done.

Response by SSgt Rick Glime made Apr 4 at 2017 12:45 PM

2017-04-04T12:45:31-04:00

In 1983 when I graduated from AIT at Ft. Sam, My diploma stated I had successfully completed the 91B Combat Medical specialist course....

Response by SPC MaryAnn Abney made May 17 at 2017 12:38 PM

2017-05-17T12:38:20-04:00

To me, having served as a medic in Afghanistan, i don't care if they refer to themselves as combat medics. However, if they call themselves Doc, they better have earned it, just as I did. And every single day, they should make sure they keep earning it!! Anyone can refer to themselves as a combat medic, but there's nothing like hearing your guys call you Doc for the first time. Then you know you've done your job!!

Response by SPC Mark Spivey made Jul 27 at 2017 3:55 PM

2017-07-27T15:55:55-04:00

In 1980 the Medic's mos was 91B, however the course was called Medical Specialist course. As a 91B you could be assigned to a combat related unit for example an airborne unit or any unit in the "rapid deployment force" or stationed in a medical unit, or any unit over seas that is first line defense at that time during "Cold War". A Medical Specialist needed to have the skill set to work in the hospital setting as well as the Aid station/division clearing station, or front line "combat" duties. The discussions about weapons of choice secondary I believe, I was stationed in Germany from 1980-1983 and fortunately did not have to go through wartime Army however I was willing and prepared to do so. I did earn my EFMB, Expert Field Medical Badge,which was very challenging and I am proud of that. I do know at times in AIT instructors would refer to us as combat medics but I believe you need the "combat experience" to call yourself that. However you should be prepared for war. On a side note I would carry the the M-16 and the 45. The standard Medic bag needs to be supplemented and most guys I knew,did that. Question for any of you out there..... why did they get rid of the 91B ? When I was in they had a 91 C but it was so long they made a short couse so the guys who were 91C's always had to say if they were short course or long. They were the equivalent to nurses( LVN )

Response by SSG Dave Johnston made Jul 28 at 2017 10:36 PM

2017-07-28T22:36:56-04:00

In the Mid to late '70s until "Desert Storm" we were a "lost" MOS; our "Hospital" counterparts didn't think we knew our MOS, and if we were un-lucky enough to have a hospital medic assigned it took what, 3 months to integrate them into the unit. also while we're in the Aid-station reviewing Med Records for shots, physicals, PRP, putting them together per AR 40-XXX; some members of the unit thought we were just goofing off and needed to hang out in the motor pool for a few hours a day.

CBT Medic; that was what Ft. Sam considered us if we ended up in a CBT ARMS unit.

Response by SSG Dave Johnston made Jul 28 at 2017 10:38 PM

2017-07-28T22:38:52-04:00

Response by SSG Eddie Montalvo made Jul 30 at 2017 12:56 PM

2017-07-30T12:56:16-04:00

When a government document asks for an MOS, they're not asking for anything but the code number assigned to jobs in the Armed Forces. Infantryman is not an MOS, but 11B is, same goes for any other MOS. Learn to read, answer, and understand the question before answering it, And don't add or change anymore than what it asks. Plenty of times I've been asked by the civilian world what my MOS was and I've answered 11B40, then go into explaining about Infantry, not the reverse.

Response by 1SG Donald Elmore made Jul 31 at 2017 1:56 PM

2017-07-31T13:56:07-04:00

If a Medic has been trained to be a "Combat Medic" then that is his title/MOS. Combat medics or Field medics (or medics) are military personnel who have been trained to at least an EMT level (16-week course in the U.S. Army),[1] and are responsible for providing first aid and front line trauma care on the battlefield. They are also responsible for providing continuing medical care in the absence of a readily available physician, including care for disease and battle injuries. Combat medics are normally co-located with the combat troops they serve in order to easily move with the troops and monitor ongoing health.

Response by SP5 Peter Keane made Jul 31 at 2017 1:59 PM

2017-07-31T13:59:46-04:00

Unless you have been awarded the CMB, you are a medic. Don't get me wrong, I know that todays medics know a hell of a lot more than those of us from Nam, hell we got our training in firefights.

Here is a excerpt from Army HRC regarding the award
Since inception, the intent of the Department of the Army regarding this requirement has been that medical personnel must be personally present and under fire in order to be eligible for the awarding of the badge. So stringent was this requirement during the Vietnam era that recommending officials were required to document the place (in six digit coordinates), time, type, and intensity of fire to which the proposed recipient was exposed. This fact naturally precludes the awarding of the badge to those medical personnel who accompany infantry units into a potential engagement area but do not come under enemy fire. Over the years, there has been some confusion concerning the phrase "...in direct support of an infantry unit...". The CMB is intended for, and awarded to, those medical personnel who accompany the infantryman into combat. The Army has never approved of deviations from this purpose and its restrictive criteria.

Response by SSgt Rick Glime made Aug 10 at 2017 5:11 PM

2017-08-10T17:11:22-04:00

That's pretty typical of a Vietnam vet. "You didn't see combat" response is something you'd expect to hear. There is nothing post Vietnam era that measures up to what they went through. Don't believe me, ask one. It's the same at my local VFW, they refuse to recognize my participation in the Gulf War because it was such a short war. Sorry fellas.
You are recruited as a Combat Medic, trained as a Combat Medic, assigned to a unit as a Combat Medic. Looks like, smells like, tastes like, therefore it must be true! You're a combat Medic!!

Response by SFC Darby Johnson made Jan 26 at 2018 4:43 PM

2018-01-26T16:43:13-05:00

Combat engineer specifies a very specific MOS (12B) to differentiate it from the other 12 series of engineered. 12Bs deal with mobility and countermobility operations, typically dealing with explosives. The other 12 series deal with the more typically construction type jobs (carpentry, electrical, plumbing, interior, concrete/asphalt, etc.).
That is why there is COMBAT in front of a 12B Combat Engineer.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2018 8:31 PM

2018-01-26T20:31:52-05:00

The biggest point is did you trust that medic? If not that is an issue for the PLT Sgt to fix.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2018 8:43 PM

2018-01-26T20:43:37-05:00

Considering that the official MOS title has been officially changed to "Combat Medic Specialist", I probably would. But you do you...

Response by PFC Patrick States made Jan 26 at 2018 9:02 PM

2018-01-26T21:02:23-05:00

When I went through AIT in 1989 my MOS was 91A Combat Medical Specialist. That's what it said on all of my paperwork.

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Jan 26 at 2018 9:04 PM

2018-01-26T21:04:38-05:00

Doc is doc. They all volunteered , some see combat some don't, but they all took the same risk, they have the same schooling. So to me they're all Doc, they earned that right at least from an old jarhead point of view. The Army part I've got no real clue, but I suspect they all deserve the same respect. They volunteer to to get up and move around while everyone else has their dick in the dirt. After that's it's fate, and much respect to anyone who assumes that risk and responsibility.

Response by SGT Eric Knutson made Jan 26 at 2018 9:34 PM

2018-01-26T21:34:25-05:00

All jobs can serve in combat, some sound cooler than others when you put combat in front. However, the Combat Engineer IS different from a regular engineer, hence the official title. A combat engineer is one who specializes in combat operations, namely demolition work, mine detection and road clearing. but at combat speed. These are they guys who are at most a few miles from the point, ready to rush forward to clear obsticals fast so that Armor, Cav and Infantry can rush through. As opposed to regular engineers who will pretty the breaches up, make more passable, build roads, and buildings as directed. This is why they even have their own MOS that is widely separated from the other engineer MOS's (12 series when I was in for combat 62 and 51 for the rest). Just my 2 pennies on that one.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2018 1:05 AM

2018-01-27T01:05:40-05:00

In 2016, I was the NCOIC of Cadre Development at the Department of Combat Medic Training (68W Schoolhouse). We lobbied successfully to have the name of the MOS changed to Combat Medic Specialist in order to dispel the impression that new medics were training for anything other than to go into harms way and provide point of injury care to Soldiers on the battlefield. Since the Army split all of the hospital based skill identifiers (M6 LVN, for example) back to their own MOS, it didn’t make sense for our medics to be called Healthcare Specialists anymore. So, a 68W is a Combat Medic Specialist now. We didn’t care for the Specialist part of the MOS title, but the powers that be at AMEDD Center and School informed us that for legal reasons, the term Specialist had to remain in the title.

Response by LtCol George Carlson made Jan 28 at 2018 12:21 AM

2018-01-28T00:21:12-05:00

You Army folks find the most trivial things to argue about. This is just one "old" Marine's opinion, but "Doc" is my hero -- from the HMC who sat up all night with me at OCS trying to get one hurting officer candidate with severe stomach cramps some sleep for the day ahead to the 18-year old HM3 who stitched up my arm in a rice paddy to the HM2 PA who put 23 sutures in my leg from a construction accident. Two were FMF Corpsmen and one was not, BUT IT DOESN'T MATTER. Get off the trivial BS and start dealing with how to fight both the war we have and the next one and not some silly-ass argument about an adjective!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 19 at 2019 11:02 AM

2019-02-19T11:02:33-05:00

I have BEEN both a Combat Engineer and a Medic.

Combat Engineer is an MOS ( 12B ). If you are a Combat Engineer and your unit deploys to some place in which US forces are engaging in combat, I'm pretty sure you're going to be exposed to combat.

Combat Medic is NOT an MOS. (Yes, a medic has an MOS, but it's name is not "Combat Medic" That MOS title is not a thing. 91B was a "Medical Specialist" and 68W is a "Healthcare Specialist?" Combat Medic is a position.) A medic attached to a rifle platoon or similar organization is a "combat medic". One could possibly extend the term to anyone assigned a frontline ambulance who links up at ambulance exchange points. I don't recall what the term on an org chart or MTO&E is for the position. I'd put my money on plain, "medic."

Many responses in this thread are from non-medics. I would like to point out that there are no "cool points" that I was every aware of associated with the term "combat medic." It's just a way of describing the role a particular medic is performing in their current duty station. More on that below...

When I went through Fort Sam Houston, we trained very nearly EXCLUSIVELY on clinical skills and anatomy and physiology. It felt like we were training to man a civilian ambulance. We had a tiny "field problem" (even by Fort Sham standards, this was a really weak field problem) and we did the litter obstacle course a few times and I think we learned what order to load and unload an FLA. But there was very little focus on tactical.

Many medics from my class went to hospitals and troop medical clinics. If they spent their careers there, then it is very doubtful that they encountered much of the lifestyle experienced in a typical maneuver unit or received much tactical training.

Some medics (I don't know the proportion) went to maneuver units or to forward support units. In a maneuver unit (Infantry, Armored Cavalry, Combat Engineer) a medic learns a lot of tactical knowledge from the Soldiers they are supporting and by participating in training activities in their role as a medic. Medics in a forward support unit are responsible for performing some medical evacuation tasks that are very similar to or identical to those performed by medics in a maneuver unit (which is why I say that I would probably use the term combat medic to describe them as well).

I originally had orders (for my first duty station) to some kind of clinical unit in Vicenza, Italy. After some issues with weather and our MAC flight, and an issue with filing a claim of the suitcase that British Airways set on fire, those orders were given to somebody else and I was told to stay in Germany. I was sent to 3d Infantry Division (broken TV set) and given orders (and congratulations) to the hospital in Nurnburg. I asked the NCO that gave me those orders if he could get orders to a maneuver unit instead. (It's complicated.) Three days later, a gruff NCO from 16th Engineer Battalion showed up to take me to Furth. As a medic in a Combat Engineer battalion, I was assigned to HHC, but attached to a Sapper platoon in B/16E. Via OJT, I learned the things that make a combat medic, a combat medic (the things that were omitted at Fort Sam Houston).

Once you are in one track or the other (clinical vs tactical), you tend to stay there. Even though I had encountered two sets of orders to clinical units, after I ended up in a Combat Engineer battalion, my next orders were to HHT 1/3 ACR Squadron Aid Station (the Cav).

(As long as I'm writing my memoirs here, might as well continue...)

I later ended up a 12B (Combat Engineer), but still had a secondary MOS of 91B. So, our platoon effectively had 2 medics (I didn't carry an aid bag) - the one attached from HHC, and myself.

Again, though. Much of this thread seems to focus on some kind of "honorary" component to the term "combat medic" and it was not my experience that any cool points were associated with it. It was just one part of a binary-split for the medic MOS (either you're clinical or you're combat medic).

Response by SSG Byron Howard Sr made Feb 19 at 2019 10:45 PM

2019-02-19T22:45:33-05:00

I was slotted as a combat photographer at the last 2 duty stations I was at. Korea and FT Sam Houston.

Response by SSG James Oliver Nathan Jr made May 5 at 2019 6:08 PM

2019-05-05T18:08:51-04:00

Yes, they are the first person you see on the field so that he can get you back too the rear. Their in combat just like everyone in the unit.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 5 at 2019 8:23 PM

2019-05-05T20:23:29-04:00

Well, considering that the MOS title is literally Combat Medic Specialist...

Response by SPC John Decker made May 5 at 2019 9:24 PM

2019-05-05T21:24:04-04:00

When I was in, back in the "80's I was a 91B, later changed to 91A (Basic Combat Medic). I had been a volunteer first-aider before I went in. I never saw combat, but that's what the title was.

Response by SFC Donald Chase made May 5 at 2019 9:38 PM

2019-05-05T21:38:39-04:00

What used to be the 91B Combat Medic MOS (now a mechanic as in reality many Combat Medics were used for anyway) and apparently now is the 68-W Combat Medic/Healthcare Specialist is now and always has been Combat Medic ever since I was an instructor at CMSD at the Academy of Health Sciences Fort Sam Houston. They are trained for Combat and thus are in fact Combat Medics. It is in the MOS title and Description. I suspect Combat Engineers are much the same. the Combat Engineer 12-B has again the term "Combat Engineer" as the title of the MOS.

Response by SGT Alicia Brenneis made May 5 at 2019 9:39 PM

2019-05-05T21:39:35-04:00

Some may not agree but there are 2 mos's that are the first to run to the fight. The 11b and 68w. It's not because we want the glory if battle or some irrelevant title status. Its because everything in us says that's where we are supposed to be. The 11b is to fight for others and the 68w to save those who fall or be a physical reassurance that we will be their if you do fall. Any infantrymen or medic will tell you that even when it's your turn to stay behind your mind is on the fight and your body is telling you you should be out there. They are not just our mos's, they are who we are. If you are in an mos whose entire purpose is the actual fight, you are a combat "xyz", even if you haven't been in one yet.

Response by SPC Jeffrey Stone made May 6 at 2019 12:36 AM

2019-05-06T00:36:27-04:00

Some people are into minutia. Why are so many people in the military such dorks? You can bet the guy that came up with that crap what is the king of the Pogues.

Response by SSG Ralph Watkins made May 6 at 2019 1:24 PM

2019-05-06T13:24:34-04:00

It was always my understanding that "Medics" could also refer those who work in clinics & hospitals while never stepping foot in the field. Combat medics are those assigned to combat arms units, trained for tourniquets & putting out white phosphorous on burning troops, not handling bed pans & clip boards.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2019 8:23 PM

2019-05-06T20:23:26-04:00

https://m.goarmy.com/careers-and-jobs/browse-career-and-job-categories/medical-and-emergency/combat-medic-specialist.m.html

https://m.goarmy.com/careers-and-jobs/browse-career-and-job-categories/construction-engineering/combat-engineer.m.html

The army (currently) disagrees with your PSG.

Combat Medic Specialist (68W) | GoArmy.com

A Combat Medic Specialist assists with patient care, administers emergency medical treatment to battlefield injuries and prepares patients for surgery.

Response by SSG Dave Johnston made Sep 15 at 2019 12:25 PM

2019-09-15T12:25:44-04:00

It was the "Cold War" years, and if the Soldier was assigned to 11 ACR, or 56 BDE FA Pershing, we had very short life expectancies at the time if the balloon ever went up so, "Blood and Guts" vs. "PsyOps", we "Doc's/Medics learned to live with it.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 27 at 2019 3:29 PM

2019-12-27T15:29:34-05:00

This is why the Army changed the name of the MOS to “emergency care specialist”. Honestly it’s rather fitting.

I would not fault any medic saying theyre a combat medic - it is part of the job. I think it’s silly though cuz medics do so much more than treat combat injuries. More soldiers get decommissioned from disease than combat injuries. Historical fact.

The new reality is if medics think they only do trauma, then they are not worthy of any titles at all.

Response by SPC William Wilson made Aug 21 at 2020 4:28 PM

2020-08-21T16:28:42-04:00

Yes.

Response by SSG Ken Potts made Jun 5 at 2021 7:39 PM

2021-06-05T19:39:51-04:00

No.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 28 at 2021 8:47 AM

2021-10-28T08:47:25-04:00

Wow

Response by SPC Rob Smith made May 5 at 2023 2:59 AM

2023-05-05T02:59:06-04:00

91B in the 80s thats the mos you train for..
all other schools you go to are just an adjundt
to your training to be more proficient at your job in garrison and for promo points.. but the army i know nn....you graduate combat medic school at the academy ....your a combat medic...