Is corrective training still acceptable in the Army?

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Sep 2018 11:32:34 -0400

My question is geared more towards the senior NCO's but please, all opinions are accepted. My question: Is corrective training (formerly known as smoking) still accepted? And to clarify, I dont mean do 10 pushups and recover. I mean taking a soldier that genuinely messed up behind a connex or to the wood line and making them sweat. I feel like NCO's these days are too afraid to make a soldier sweat so they go straight to counseling. I feel that soldiers see that as a slap on the wrist instead of punishment. What's y'alls take on the matter?

Response by SGT David T. made Sep 14 at 2018 12:18 PM

SGT David T. — Fri, 14 Sep 2018 12:18:52 -0400

Floggings will continue until morale increases? In all seriousness, I never found that method to be effective. I personally have been that screwed up Soldier who was smoked for hours on end. It changed absolutely nothing. It didn't address the problem at all. All it did was make me stronger than my NCO.

My method was a bit different and it involved several things. First, treat my troops like adults. This fostered an environment of respect where they actually wanted to do the right thing.
Second, I put everything on paper. I used the counseling form (I forget the number) for its intended purpose to actually help them improve. Counseling is supposed to be a two way conversation to help them get better.
In addition I maintained two different counseling packets. One only included the bare minimum that 1SG wanted to see (monthly, board, directed, etc). The other contained everything. I made it known to them that if they fixed the problem, those forms would end up in the shredder after a while. If not, then I had them in case i needed them.

I wasn't afraid of smoking them, I only used that for PT failures of overweight troops. I just don't think it works.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 14 at 2018 4:06 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Sep 2018 16:06:54 -0400

I had the privilege of taking several Specialists to the Promotion board. (Most of them have made SFC by now). The only time I ever really dusted them off was the day before they got pinned E5.
Each time, I’d find the smallest infraction, and then run them over for a few hours.

Because that wasnt really normal, by the time their ACUs were dripped through and their water all gone, I’d sit down and say something like, “I hope you understand the power and authority you will have over Soldiers. Don’t abuse it. Up until today, I haven’t, and I’ve successfully gotten you to where you want to be. If I had done this to you since day one, you probably wouldn’t be getting promoted tomorrow.”

It always seemed to click with them.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Sep 14 at 2018 4:49 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Fri, 14 Sep 2018 16:49:50 -0400

I heard that punishment should be relevant to the infraction.

Response by Maj John Bell made Sep 14 at 2018 7:18 PM

Maj John Bell — Fri, 14 Sep 2018 19:18:05 -0400

There are errors of judgment - Don't punish. You'll make troops that will never take risks. Instead have mentoring conversations that leave you confident that the troop learned the appropriate lessons.

There are errors of negligence/omission - Make the troop fix the damage they did. Practice make perfect, so make them practice until you are confident they can do it perfect. Practice is not punishment.

There are errors of malice - Punish in a firm, fair, and unemotional manner. If they take a second bite at the apple, let them know they are putting their future at risk, and follow through.

There are errors of incompetence - That error is on the leadership. Leadership should of made sure the troop knew what to do, how to do it, had what they needed, and knew what was the acceptable standard of performance. Troops that have not proven their competence at a task should NEVER be left unsupervised until they have proven their competence at the task.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Sep 14 at 2018 10:00 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Fri, 14 Sep 2018 22:00:34 -0400

1. Counseling is for the record- the Sm and the counselor. 2. You ALWAYS counsel the bad and the good. 2. There is nothing that says you can't run a School for the Solider on their off days- I did it the whole time is was an NCO. Normally had the NCO chain- monitoring, grading and supervising the SM. It helped "encourage all" to not let it happen again and to prove the point that the NCO's were responsible for their troops. So that was always a part of my remedial training shown on the counseling statement. Also when the statement, it helped build the case for company level punishment if the SM was incorrigible or dumber than rocks.