Is disrespect of a former POTUS on social media allowed? Is it acceptable after they've left office?

2017-01-20T02:40:32-05:00

I know that it's in very bad taste and a big no-no to disrespect the Commander in Chief, but what about if they've left office? Can servicemembers attack George Bush or another former POTUS because they're no longer in that soldiers chain of command?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2017 2:42 AM

2017-01-20T02:42:47-05:00

My advice is to always use your freedom of speech wisely.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2017 3:11 AM

2017-01-20T03:11:15-05:00

2 points, first is Article 88 of the UCMJ "Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct"
Enlisted can be tagged under AR 134 for contemptuous ~behaviors per say.
So it's not explicitly stated against former "officials" but it certainly is in very bad taste. That said you do have freedom of speech and bad mouthing a former president will not land you in legal trouble without other factors.
The second point is like religion and politics they are easy to discuss but will strain your work relations because everyone has an opinion and they are very divisive so generally best to keep those conversations for outside of work.
I expect there to be many derogatory comments about our soon to be former POTUS starting tomorrow, when Trump takes his oath.

Response by TSgt Joe C. made Jan 20 at 2017 3:16 AM

2017-01-20T03:16:01-05:00

I wouldn't bash any former POTUS until I was completely removed from the military.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2017 4:14 AM

2017-01-20T04:14:17-05:00

Stepping into politics is tricky. Be careful what you say, not only while your active duty but when you retire/ETS. Civilian office politics is even more tricky then when you're still in.

Response by CW4 Angel C. made Jan 20 at 2017 4:31 AM

2017-01-20T04:31:39-05:00

Respect is not always earned. In the case of the POTUS and FPOTUS they should always be given respect everywhere.

Response by SP5 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2017 9:27 AM

2017-01-20T09:27:57-05:00

PFC Private RallyPoint Member Why would disrespect ever be "acceptable"?

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2017 11:20 AM

2017-01-20T11:20:42-05:00

It is not a crime. But, disrespect is seldom appropriate, and even when it is it shown be handled one on one not publicly.

The above applies to disrespect on anyone.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2017 12:16 PM

2017-01-20T12:16:42-05:00

Any sort of political views, posted or spoken socially, cannot be made while wearing the uniform. That being said, if you have ZERO military pictures and NO VIEWABLE affiliation to the Army on your facebook page (including friends, co workers, and subordinates) then you would be free to post your opinions.
To answer your question directly, "former presidents" are still referred to as "Mr President" and "President (insert name here)" since they have served in that position they have earned that title. Since their titles remain intact, it would be up to interpretation of regulations of JAG for that specific answer. But as CPT Jaren Glover posted, article 134 (AKA the catchall) is a verrrryyyyy long reaching article that can get you for anything deemed "offensive to a reasonable person"

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2017 12:55 PM

2017-01-20T12:55:54-05:00

They are private citizens deserving of the same respect or ridicule as anyone else. We are not a monarchy.

Response by SPC Erich Guenther made Jan 20 at 2017 1:10 PM

2017-01-20T13:10:14-05:00

You really shouldn't say anything public about a current or former POTUS if your in uniform period. Nothing wrong with a discussion with fellow Soldiers but in my view it is really stupid to post on Social Media about current or former POTUS if your in uniform. Especially, if it is something critical. There are other people in uniform waiting to nail you if you cross the line as well as politicians and I have even seen some Veterans attempt to call a unit or call a unit to complain about Social Media remarks. Also, the Army, Reserves or National Guard should have covered this for you as well. They did when I was in and that was before Al Gore invented the Internet.

Response by SFC Dave Mccain made Jan 20 at 2017 2:03 PM

2017-01-20T14:03:16-05:00

frowned upon and "behoove" come to mind.
IMHO it is best to keep any disparaging remarks to yourself. it does no good to become a Social Justice Warrior and leave yourself flapping in the wind. Social Media is not a wise avenue to bark out any personal opinions, as they are fairly permanent. Gripe around the campfire or bar like a good American and save yourself the trouble of the anonymous SJWs out there

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2017 2:19 PM

2017-01-20T14:19:24-05:00

In your case, I would recommend (if you are planning on it) to refrain from making disrespectful comments on social media. Army Big Brother will probably not like it. Most employers are now looking at potential applicants social media postings.......and you don't want this kind of negativity to come back and bite you in the six many years down the road.

Response by SFC George Smith made Jan 20 at 2017 11:45 PM

2017-01-20T23:45:38-05:00

not a Bright Idea some folks have thin skins and are easily offended Like Progressives and Liberals...

Response by COL Charles Williams made Jan 21 at 2017 12:35 AM

2017-01-21T00:35:46-05:00

No, it is not... in my view.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2017 12:19 AM

2017-01-22T00:19:27-05:00

He is a "Former" elected official...meaning he is a private citizen. So as long as you do not slander or libel them. But then again you never know who your CoC voted for either so take SGT Cornell Wallace and Col Carl Whicker advice and as alway do what your rank can afford

Response by MSG Jay Jackson made Jan 22 at 2017 7:50 PM

2017-01-22T19:50:09-05:00

OK all I will say is Jimmy Carter third worst POTUS ever!!

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2017 6:35 AM

2017-01-24T06:35:08-05:00

the respect is for the rank not the individual

Response by Debbie Miller made Jan 24 at 2017 8:34 AM

2017-01-24T08:34:53-05:00

Freedom of Speech makes it allowable; however, it makes our Country appear to be internally at odds -- not a view we want other Countries to witness, especially those who may challenge us.

Response by Debbie Miller made Jan 24 at 2017 8:37 AM

2017-01-24T08:37:48-05:00

There have been comments made creating security concerns, working up a group of people so one of them pulls the trigger. SHAME

Response by LCpl Joseph Ukasik made Jan 24 at 2017 8:56 AM

2017-01-24T08:56:40-05:00

A good rule that I follow "Do I really want this in writing somewhere?" and i concor with Sgt Wallace

Response by SGT Woodrow Greenfeather made Jan 24 at 2017 9:08 AM

2017-01-24T09:08:47-05:00

An old wise Airborne Infantry NCO told me......do what your rank can handle

Response by LCpl James Robertson made Jan 24 at 2017 9:09 AM

2017-01-24T09:09:22-05:00

Even though they are no longer President I would not disrespect them. I can remember when President. Nixon were caught up in the Watergate scandal while on ship deployed to Vietnam a marine played a new song on his (8) track stereo the artist were: James Brown the song were, "You can have Watergate, but give me some bucks and I'll be straight." Immediately there were no more sales of that song, and it were ban from being played on ship.

Response by SGT Robert Woods made Jan 24 at 2017 9:39 AM

2017-01-24T09:39:55-05:00

I agree with SGT Wallace but I think the office of the POTUS has lost allot of respect due to the lack of Leadership. As a former soldier, we all took the same oath the POTUS takes and yet we stood by and watched the former POTUS try and change the very document we swore to protect even if it cost our lives. The past administration so far has gotten away with many, many high crimes. Our military men and women in that oath also stated that we would obey the POTUS. After seeing his dislike for the military and taking it out on the troops has really upset me. We all know that War is not a kumbaya thing it;s purpose it to kill until either you have solved the problem or you're killed. Of course when your active duty your thoughts are better kept to yourself. But I'm over the hill and I jut did not like the man.

Response by Sgt Henry Jeffs made Jan 24 at 2017 10:22 AM

2017-01-24T10:22:41-05:00

Always respect the office even if you disagree with the holder of that office. That applies to present and past. Hypothetically what would happen if an Obama disciple ran for president next time and won?

Response by Sgt John Koliha made Jan 24 at 2017 10:56 AM

2017-01-24T10:56:06-05:00

Sure, disrespect away. But WHY? Dump all over them if you want, but what will it accomplish? Grow up and get on with worrying about the here and now.

Response by CWO4 David Smith made Jan 24 at 2017 11:56 AM

2017-01-24T11:56:17-05:00

Obama has ALWAYS been FAIR GAME!

Response by FN Charlie Spivey made Jan 24 at 2017 11:57 AM

2017-01-24T11:57:28-05:00

If you are still active, probably not such a good idea. You do have Constitutional freedoms, but not neccessarily so when in the Service. That is something you learn early on.

Response by TSgt George Rodriguez made Jan 24 at 2017 1:05 PM

2017-01-24T13:05:05-05:00

That depends on how far down the road it goes. If statements made are widely circulated you undoubtedly will have to answer for them. If its to family and trusted friends with outside knowing nothing about it you probably will get away with it. Always know who your talking to. Loose lips sink ships.

Response by PO3 William Fusick made Jan 24 at 2017 3:28 PM

2017-01-24T15:28:23-05:00

Why disrespect anyone former Potus or not? What good does it do? It may make you feel good but could cost you down the road.

Response by SPC Johnny Velazquez, PhD made Jan 24 at 2017 5:12 PM

2017-01-24T17:12:55-05:00

In my view, no. No matter how inept he was, respect goes a long ways.

Response by MAJ David Vermillion made Jan 24 at 2017 5:39 PM

2017-01-24T17:39:32-05:00

I think we should respect the office of the Presidency and the person who is elected to hold it. What good will it do to tear down the man or the office? Where is our self control, the tongue is so damaging. Once these ugly words are said they can not be retrieved.

Response by PO2 Weaver Brian made Jan 24 at 2017 6:40 PM

2017-01-24T18:40:56-05:00

I believe disrespect to anyone is bad form. Disrespect to a former commander in chief is even worse. While you do not have to respect the man, you should always respect the position they hold, or have held. It should be beneath you to be disrespectful to a former president, and if it isn't, perhaps you need to re-evaluate your motivations for acting in such a way.

Response by SMSgt David A Asbury made Jan 24 at 2017 6:59 PM

2017-01-24T18:59:51-05:00

Just remember both parties are on the government payroll. One must consider what is said and if it is covered under the UCMJ and the damage done

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2017 7:29 PM

2017-01-24T19:29:45-05:00

Freedom of Speech my friend. And do use discretion while speaking about others. Especially ones in high places. What goes around comes around!

Response by Cpl Arwen Bernard made Jan 24 at 2017 7:31 PM

2017-01-24T19:31:22-05:00

Rule of thumb never talk politics or religion unless you are very very sure of the company you keep.

I never talk about those two issues ever! They are the fastest way to lose friends and make enemies. So since talking about POTUS, whether current or past, will always be in political waters, just best to keep it to yourself thus you never ever have to worry.

Response by Jerry Rivas made Jan 24 at 2017 8:15 PM

2017-01-24T20:15:52-05:00

I would not advise it.....Bad idea.

Response by SSG Jeffrey Monk made Jan 24 at 2017 10:05 PM

2017-01-24T22:05:55-05:00

The rule was usually meant for Officers for a current POTUS but I know Clinton didn't like it and we enlisted actually had to take off any bumper stickers, posters and such. Became an Article 15 if caught. Nobody seemed to care for the anti Bush stuff.

Response by 1SG Al Madrona made Jan 25 at 2017 12:24 AM

2017-01-25T00:24:38-05:00

If you know it is in bad taste, why would you want to disrespect a former POTUS. You represent the US Army.

Response by SGT James Taylor made Jan 25 at 2017 6:07 PM

2017-01-25T18:07:47-05:00

You may or may not like the current or past POTUS, but I would recommend leaving your opinions about politics private. As a veteran I can say that I have seen other active duty members receiving some not to appealling back lash from other members for over voicing opinions. I got out of the military before social media became so popular so I can't say how that would effect you. I would say that unless it has a drastic effect on your day to day life don't make it out to be a bigger deal that it really is. Our Commander in Chief isn't there to make everyone happy, and as well they are the President, the job and responsibility that they have is huge. Anyway, when have we had a President past or present that has made everyone happy. Never. Our job as servicemembers is not to choose a side, we are there to protect our Country and our Constitution.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 25 at 2017 6:37 PM

2017-01-25T18:37:49-05:00

A military member shouldn't attack anyone on social media. That being said, saying the POTUS, even one currently serving, has made decisions you disagree with, or expressing your dislike at their actions is perfectly appropriate, providing you don't give your opinion signed with your rank or service affiliation. We should always be respectful, but you can passionately disagree, even current presidents (without advertising your military rank/position/affiliation).

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2017 1:40 PM

2017-01-26T13:40:53-05:00

The right to your conscious is endowed by your creator and protected by the US Constitution.
Whether or not it's in bad taste or not, I think policy issues should always be fair game. Being disrespectful towards the Former-President personally is another issue altogether, and being a private citizen affords you the same scrutiny and protection as all other citizens. We are not a society of protected people or group, and we should all be protected equally under the law. SJWs be damned.

Response by SPC Brian Mason made Jan 26 at 2017 4:00 PM

2017-01-26T16:00:21-05:00

Hey PFC. Some say we (soldiers and vets) give up some of our Constitutional rights and we can't. I call BS. EVERY citizen of this country has the right to show their disdain for it's government when it is NOT doing right for the country. If I were in, I'd still call Obama out for the mess he was doing. I'm NOT planning on overthrowing the government like Madonna did. When the government says you can't, that's fascism. Exactly how Hitler ran Germany.

Response by Maj Bill Smith, Ph.D. made Feb 4 at 2017 9:40 PM

2017-02-04T21:40:37-05:00

A big no-no? How about a court marshal offense! While on active duty, recommend focusing on you job. I and others had lots of opinions during the Vietnam war but fortuately only a few like John Kerry violated their oath of office*.
I agree with the comment by PVT James Strait - "Active Duty Service members should stay the hell off social media."
* [If too young to know about Kerry's dishonarble action during the Vietnam War go to ARRANewsService.com and enter John Kerry in the search box. ]

Response by LtCol Michael Derchak made Feb 8 at 2017 9:27 AM

2017-02-08T09:27:11-05:00

While in uniform no. As a civilian yes.

Response by SFC Michael Peterson made Feb 8 at 2017 10:05 AM

2017-02-08T10:05:00-05:00

In my opinion, as an active service member, you certainly have the right to have an opinion but, I would be VERY careful about how you voice that opinion. Talking casually among your buddies is great but, when you put that out on the internet for everyone to see, you may just be creating problems for yourself. Remember, some people will associate anything you say with the military. The last few years I was in, it was mandatory for Soldiers to provide their NCO's with a link to their social media pages and, we read everything they posted. The idea behind that was to ensure that OPSEC wasn't being compromised during our deployment cycles. The bottom line is, think before you speak (or post). That's just my $0.02, take it for what it's worth.

Response by PO3 John Wagner made Feb 8 at 2017 12:08 PM

2017-02-08T12:08:20-05:00

Comments should be intelligent. To the point and explained. Name calling is a waste of time and detracts from the point. Name calling also makes the commenter appear ignorant even if they are not. One needs to remember that as a rule presidents do not act on their own. They tend to be little more POLITICALLY and Policywise than the face of their parties. Implementing policy...good or bad ... requires the cooperation of many lawmakers. My impressions of President Obama with his first two years..and thereafter..were that he had little or no control at all and pretty much just did as he was told.. Regardless of those who vilify President Trump simply out of stupid habit..We should be pleased that he has a big mouth and makes a stink wether or not his anger is with his own partie or the opposition. He can..if he is given any respect by the general public whatsoever..do much good.
He also needs the cooperation of his party. The public MUST hold their legislators accountable. If we do not business as usual will resume in short order and Donald Trump will have no more personal power than his predecessor. It TRULY is vital that constant vigilance is maintained. Otherwise we will be subverted and the hopes that are had now will simply fade away far more easily than a swamp can be drained.

Response by PFC Francis Ramseyer made Mar 7 at 2017 7:27 AM

2017-03-07T07:27:38-05:00

What is past is past but no one should be disrespectful toward an ex CC.

Response by Sgt Marbury Keys made Mar 7 at 2017 10:28 AM

2017-03-07T10:28:34-05:00

We should continue to respect all Commanders In Chiefs!!!!

Response by SGT Wayne Coulter made Apr 19 at 2017 8:46 PM

2017-04-19T20:46:08-04:00

I am reminded of a certain platoon sergeant shortly after the 1992 election. He was no fan of Clinton, I'll tell you that. We were in Kuwait at the beginning of a deployment (Intrinsic Action 93-1). My unit was in the draw area prepping vehicles for my unit to draw for use. A newsie (CNN IIRC) came up and started pumping Soldiers for whatever response he could get. We'd been warned, "Don't say anything except "NO COMMENT"". So this newsie wasn't getting anywhere. He comes up to the platoon sergeant and asked, "So, Sergeant, how do you feel about President Clinton allowing gays to serve in the military?" The platoon sergeant spits a wad of dip and says, "Well, I guess we'll just have to suck it up." I heard that played ONCE before it was pulled. Everyone close enough to hear what was said could barely contain our laughter. It was like, Holy crap... did he just say that?"

It is never wise for active duty personnel to voice their political opinions... but to be honest, once a president has left office, he is just like every other citizen. He is no longer in the chain of command and therefore you'd really have to get creative to charge someone for voicing a derogatory opinion for a former official. This is a very good question... I'd like to see what JAG has to say about this...