Is double consent a thing?

2015-08-14T10:39:31-04:00

Thinking about all of our SAPR/SHARP briefing we all have attended they usually focus on getting the woman's consent, if she is drinking she can't consent, etc, etc. as illustrated by this poster.

What are your thoughts on the commentary?

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 14 at 2015 10:44 AM

2015-08-14T10:44:28-04:00

Very interesting concept to consider. I would think to actually know for sure would be a blood test. Then maybe you could use it as defense. But I believe in most cases the perpetrators are purposely getting the victim intoxicated to take advantage of.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 14 at 2015 10:44 AM

2015-08-14T10:44:53-04:00

In the name of equality charge them both!

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Aug 14 at 2015 10:45 AM

2015-08-14T10:45:25-04:00

PC run amok.

Response by MAJ Jim Steven made Aug 14 at 2015 10:45 AM

2015-08-14T10:45:55-04:00

i think the whole "getting only a woman's consent" sort of hints at women being inferior, as if they are all damsels in distress - a woman, drunk, cant be held responsible for her decisions. Not an absolute, but hints at it.
The truth is, bad things can happen when you are drunk...and when its just you and one other person, and both of you are drunk...God help you if you have conflicting stories!

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 14 at 2015 10:55 AM

2015-08-14T10:55:55-04:00

The only way to be safe as a male is to never have sex. Ever. Seems that the male is always to blame.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Aug 14 at 2015 11:01 AM

2015-08-14T11:01:56-04:00

No one should initiate violence or deceit against anyone else. No one should be involved in an involuntary sexual act. The fact is the vast majority of unwanted sexual encounters are initiated by men.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 14 at 2015 11:36 AM

2015-08-14T11:36:32-04:00

To me this poster demonstrates concisely the inconsistencies between how SHARP issues are handled and the concept of gender equality so often preached about these days.

In this case I believe one of two things should happen: 1. Both individuals are charged. 2. Since neither was capable of legal consent, charges are dismissed and the event is chalked up as a series of bad decisions by both parties.

My preference would be the 2nd option. Placing the onus entirely on males to obtain and maintain consent is not equality, and removes all personal responsibility from the involved females. I would be interested to hear a female perspective on this. While I agree we need to actively work to address SHARP within our ranks, I find initiatives like this counterproductive.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 14 at 2015 11:44 AM

2015-08-14T11:44:17-04:00

Thats because all men are pigs in the eyes of of the law. Especially in this case. We are guilty until proven guilty no matter what. Double standards like this pisses me off.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Aug 14 at 2015 11:47 AM

2015-08-14T11:47:49-04:00

Never use verbal contracts, use a paper contract.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 14 at 2015 12:59 PM

2015-08-14T12:59:11-04:00

all depends who is forcing him or herself into someone else, at that point consent is not in the picture.... just imagine, you go to the bar with your friends and all got drunk, you decide to stop drinking, but your buddies who are also drunk force feed you the alcohol, did you need the consent from your buddies for them to force feed you the liquor? or at that point the only consent that mattered was yours? think about it...

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 14 at 2015 2:22 PM

2015-08-14T14:22:20-04:00

This is why we can't have nice things... This idea that women can't give consent with any alcohol totally absolves them of adult responsibility. If you go out and make choices, you should be held accountable to your choices. This new mindset essentially adds "unless you're a woman" as a caveat to every action and makes it sexist to say otherwise.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Aug 14 at 2015 2:29 PM

2015-08-14T14:29:27-04:00

The term barracks whore is well known throughout the services for a reason. These creatures are ground zero for many of our poor 1SG's dramas within their respective units. Everyone has a story of disgusting ill repute from their time in uniform. These sleezestaks are excellent at playing the system. They are the first ones to raise the flag if they ever come under scrutiny and are excellent at portraying the vestal virgin during investigations. Many a time I have seen them skate free because they know that previous sexaul history can't be brought into testimony at a court-martial. These vile DNA receptacles not only bring shame upon themselves, but they make it hell for legitimate victims. The first thing someone under investigation says is that "there was consent last night and she she has slept with the entire unit.' Well, thanks for making life hell for everyone trying to get justice from predators. And to these trolls' parents I say 'way to raise a woman with absolutely NO self-esteem'.

Response by SrA Edward Vong made Aug 14 at 2015 3:15 PM

2015-08-14T15:15:36-04:00

I think it goes to case by case. Consent may not be given on either side. Was it forced? Was there violence and bodily injuries involved? There are too many factors other than who reported the situation first.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Aug 14 at 2015 4:12 PM

2015-08-14T16:12:37-04:00

I would like to hear from the female members of RP. We all have our perspectives based on our experiences, male and female (and all in-between). Consent is pretty well given from the male perspective and its proper for the lady of interest to make at least a token effort to say, "No thanks". Perhaps the new military members do things differently from years past. There was little doubt in my mind, if there was consent or not. Anyone with a functioning brain should be able to determine the difference. However, when things become strained later after the adventure, who is to say if consent was given either way?

Response by MSgt Curtis Ellis made Aug 14 at 2015 4:15 PM

2015-08-14T16:15:37-04:00

Sad, but true, though it is getting better. The last SHARP class I attended did focus a bit more on male rape and assault by female(s) (for a change), how it could happen and some of the psychological effects. Every time I see something along these lines, it reminds me of the two girls that stripped a little boy of his clothes in public... His cries were worse than one from a spanking...

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Aug 14 at 2015 4:35 PM

2015-08-14T16:35:38-04:00

It looks to me like it's the same thing as any crime reported.. The 1st one to call 911 is the victim, the second the accused.
In this Meme "situation" If Jake called first, Josie is charged.
Right? Well of course not, Im just calling it like I have seen it go down countless times in Domestic violence or assault or road rage even motor vehicle accidents.

Response by SA Harold Hansmann made Aug 14 at 2015 4:37 PM

2015-08-14T16:37:13-04:00

How do you know it wasn't her who was trying to get him drunk to take advantage?
Today's society it's always the male whom is guilty of being the aggressor in this type of situation.

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Aug 14 at 2015 6:13 PM

2015-08-14T18:13:42-04:00

Not gonna touch this one.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 14 at 2015 8:26 PM

2015-08-14T20:26:20-04:00

Ah feminism. The ultimate double standard. You can't have it both ways.
What say you, Hillary Clinton? She's had some eyebrow raising comments on this subject in the past...