Is enough being done to stop/prevent suicide with Servicemembers and Veterans?

SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 Feb 2014 07:28:43 -0500

Our suicide rates are at historical highs...more Soldiers/Vets have committed suicide in the last few years than all of our fallen brothers and sisters for both OEF and OIF. It's averaging 23 a day.

We have suicide prevention training, but it's only required in my unit once a year. We are taught from Day 0 that we are to have our battle buddy's back while deployed, but what about while in garrison? I don't mean to sound disrespectful or attacking anyone with this next part but...What happened to NCO's actually living by the NCO Creed? What happened to "My two basic responsibilities will always be uppermost in my mind, the accomplishment of my mission and the welfare of my Soldiers...I know my Soldiers and will always place their needs above my own"? I get that we're in the Army, that we're Soldiers first, and there are going to be times where we have to just embrace the suck and drive on. I don't think that applies though to making sure that Soldiers are doing ok.

This is a huge issue, and I don't believe that there is enough being done. At what point is this going to be a "big enough problem" for something more to be done?

Response by SFC James Baber made Jan 30 at 2014 10:54 PM

SFC James Baber — Thu, 30 Jan 2014 22:54:50 -0500

1st cut out the red tape for someone to get help whether it be veteran or AD SM alike, there is too much meandering within the system when people do reach out for assistance.

For the AD side, even though they say the stigmatism is no longer there, that is just PC talk, there is still pressures from seeking help that is reflected towards you and your future based on issues and help seeked out, and on the veteran side, the availability by the AD clinics or psychiatrists needs to be accessible as well, especially if VA assistance is too far or appts are too spread out if even available.

Response by CSM Stuart C. O'Black made Jan 30 at 2014 10:59 PM

CSM Stuart C. O'Black — Thu, 30 Jan 2014 22:59:13 -0500

Please once you have received enough information or any good points send them my way. While we have been doing well in our BDE across the forces we have not. Not sure if we are lucky or starting to get it. Regardless any points you learn will benefit the force.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Feb 12 at 2014 8:24 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Wed, 12 Feb 2014 08:24:56 -0500

We have to be realistic about the topic of suicide as well. Suicidal thoughts have been a part of the human experience since the first caveman broke up with his cave girlfriend and realized all he has left is being chased by velociraptors.

It is not a defect. It is not a disease, it is not a syndrome. It is a perfectly normal human stress reaction. Part of the problem is the way we treat these people, like there's something wrong with them. How on earth is that supposed to help? Just be there for them. Help them. Talk to them. But treating it like it's some crazy new phenomenon, or a "problem to be eradicated" is just adding to the problem.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 12 at 2014 5:50 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 Feb 2014 17:50:00 -0500

One of my personal goals is to ensure active duty, reserve, and veteran service members are aware the VA has substantially changed and is reaching out to provide helpful information about behavioral health problems, treatment benefits, and where to refer friends, colleagues, partners, and family members:

• http://www.ptsd.va.gov/apps/AboutFace/info/about-us.html

• http://www.ptsd.va.gov/apps/AboutFace/veterans.html
• http://www.ptsd.va.gov/apps/AboutFace/clinicians.html

• http://www.ptsd.va.gov/apps/AboutFace/info/get-help.html
• http://www.ptsd.va.gov/public/where-to-get-help.asp
• http://maketheconnection.net

• Veterans Crisis Line: [login to see]

• http://www.ptsd.va.gov/public/pages/military-sexual-trauma-general.asp

• Military Sexual Trauma Crisis Line: [login to see]

Response by 1SG Johnny Carter made Feb 12 at 2014 6:41 PM

1SG Johnny Carter — Wed, 12 Feb 2014 18:41:27 -0500

I know we are doing more than enough training to identify a serious matter. We have prevented way more suicides and have gotten help for those with ideations. But like what has already been said it only does so much. Most victims who successfully kill themselves are the ones who show no signs. When a victim had made his/her mind up they will drive on and unfortunately succeed. So instead of us putting numbers up of how many have killed themselves lets put up number of ones we saved. Those would out way the deaths and people would have a better outlook on what we are doing to prevent.

Response by CH (CPT) Heather Davis made Feb 14 at 2014 3:42 AM

CH (CPT) Heather Davis — Fri, 14 Feb 2014 03:42:47 -0500

SPC(P) Miller:

I commend you on your personal courage to address this topic on Rally Point. Due to the multiple deployments, and high op tempo psychological stressors pull out unresolved issues and a vast majority of our Soldiers are dealing with intergenerational PTSD.

The Army has implemented a new program military resiliency training this training provides insight to thinking traps, and spiral down thinking that amplifies into depression and suicidal adulations.

Yellow Ribbon Programs have integrated reintegration training and Chaplains are implementing Strong Bonds Trainings to strengthen the relationship bonds.

I would utilize your Chaplains, and Army One Source and the VA.

Response by SSG Jim Handy made Feb 15 at 2014 9:37 AM

SSG Jim Handy — Sat, 15 Feb 2014 09:37:34 -0500

No, especially among Veterans. There are 53 Veterans dying everyday waiting for their benefits that are being withheld due to the VA backlog. A lot of these Veterans are just giving up because they are tired of fighting to survive without an income and the VA's attitude when you try to find out about your claim does nothing to give the Veteran any hope for the future or that the VA even cares whether you have a future or not. Congress and the prsident seem to have adopted the same attitude. Even though they could solve the backlog in less that two months with the stroke of a pen, they refuse to do so, and just continue to look the other way while our Veterans suffer. They are bending over backwards trying to get unemployment benefits extended and trying to get minimum wage raised for people who already have incomes, however Veterans, who are suffering the worst financially of these 3 groups continue to be ignored as if we don't matter. They are all eager to get on TV and make sound bites about how much they support Veterans but when it comes to actually taking action that improves the quyality of life for Veterans they continue to be absent. They hold hearings on the backlog but the people they talk to is the VA, not the Veterans. The end result is that every action that comes about because of those hearings is VA centered, not Veteran centered. Our government is essentionally just looking the other way when it come to mistreatment of Veterans, and the VA backlog is a mistreatment of Veterans and it is UNECASSARY!

Response by SPC Charles Brown made Mar 30 at 2014 3:49 PM

SPC Charles Brown — Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:49:05 -0400

As a soldier serving on active duty it isn't always the leaders who recognize that a soldier may be suicidal. My wife noticed I was having problems and feared that I may have been about to do something foolish. She approached my direct supervisor and unit commander about this. They both sat down with me privately and discussed what I felt needed to be done to help me get past the problem. They took my suggestions and made an appointment to see the unit Chaplain and a psychiatrist who I continued to see for 6 months until I felt that the danger had passed, after which I was informed that if I needed help in the future all I needed to do was to call and make a follow up appointment. Thank God for my wife and chain of command, otherwise I may not be here today. Leadership can be beneficial in keeping soldiers from committing suicide. But it may take someone who is closer to the individual on a daily basis to get the ball rolling.

Response by SGT William B. made Mar 30 at 2014 4:46 PM

SGT William B. — Sun, 30 Mar 2014 16:46:22 -0400

Sir,

I think the greatest thing that any commander can do is remove that invisible barrier between the junior enlisted, the NCOs, and the officers, and be able to talk plainly to each other when personal problems arise. We shove Suicide Prevention briefings down everyone's throats as a check-the-block measure, but it always comes as a shock when someone reveals they've been thinking about it, or worse, they go through with it.

A few years ago, after AIT, I was having major financial problems and wasn't able to find a job. I went from going through all the training for my MOS and doing really well and being able to take care of myself for the first time in my life to couch-surfing at different friends' homes merely months after getting out of IET and transitioning back to a TPU status. I was having to ration those little quarter packages of ramen for a day. I blame it on inexperience, but I didn't raise a peep to my leadership because I was afraid that I was going to be that needy PFC that always wants something, because I was afraid of getting kicked out, being the guy that had "issues", etc. This was all in concert with some other personal issues that I never took the time to resolve, which really started building to a head.

It got bad enough to the point that I missed a drill, and instantly, I started getting calls asking about where I was and how I was doing. Lucky for me, every echelon of my leadership all the way up to the battalion commander made time to speak with me in person and check and see how I was doing. I don't know what happened, but I broke and spilled the beans about how I was living. From that point on, things started to get better. Instead of spending the money on gas to get to drill, I caught a ride with a friend that lived in town. I dropped my pride and found a job working at the local Best Buy (not glamorous, but it paid the bills). I reconnected with my dad and moved back in with him.

I can't speak to the more experienced soldiers that have these issues because of PTSD, divorce, and the trauma of serving in two wars that have lasted over a decade, but as a young junior enlisted soldier, I did not get any better until my leadership took an active interest in my welfare, and to be fair, it would have been a lot easier had I had the maturity to talk openly about the problems months earlier. Once that barrier was removed, my life began improving over the next few months. That entire part of the NCO Creed about "...the welfare of my soldiers" isn't a joke or something you just memorize for a board and then dump. The NCOs and the officers that went out of their way to make sure little PFC Bradley was doing okay really lived that ideal, and I think that's what really separates leadership that looks at Suicide Prevention as a "check the block" exercise, and the leadership that exists and operates on a higher scale.

EDIT: I guess the BLUF of all of this is "Know your soldiers and communicate with them consistently", communicate meaning that not only do you pass on information that they need, but you take the time to know how they're doing.

Response by LTC Jason Strickland made Apr 6 at 2014 11:08 AM

LTC Jason Strickland — Sun, 06 Apr 2014 11:08:01 -0400

Fallon, thanks for addressing this on RallyPoint. My organization, Project Sanctuary (http://www.projectsanctuary.us), focuses on mental health wellbeing of our service members, veterans, and their families. We understand the problem and we have an effective, results-based way to deal with it through our outdoor, therapeutic retreat program for the entire family. Please share with others how we're helping.

Home - Project Sanctuary

At Project Sanctuary, we believe the whole family serves, and the best way to “support the troops” is by supporting the family. We provide therapeutic retreats, enabling military families to reconnect...

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 22 at 2014 2:53 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 22 Apr 2014 02:53:20 -0400

Sir, I have discussed this at length with a few people. I have a medical background, in addition to my Army career. Some of the things I see all too often would make most crazy.

The current training is inadequate. The biggest shortfall is lack of leader involvement; leaders not really putting emphasis to it as much as paying it lip service. There are also too many mandatory tasks that leaders must complete (battle rhythm so higher can micro-manage, SHARP, 90% of time with 10% of Soldiers, etc). In addition, there is no training for the family members; moms, dads, wives, husbands, older kids, neighbors, girlfriends, boyfriends, etc. We see them at work for 8-10 hours. The rest of their time is spent at home, with others. If they normally call mom and dad every week, and suddenly the calls stop, do the parents know where to go to voice a concern? If they do this are they given a warm response or a cold shoulder?

I was working in the ER when an AD SM came in, escorted by co-workers. SM made statement about killing himself, said he was just joking. SM was evaluated by an ER MD and mental health professional. Both agreed SM posed no threat. SM was released, went home and killed himself. Background that we did not get until later was that his wife was leaving him and taking the child. Had that been know, he would not have been released.

Do the PL/PSG/SL/TL have get-togethers? Do they perform welfare visits to the houses? Do they call spouses or parents that are interested to see if things are going well at home? If you have 6 guys, that is one 30 minute or less phone call a day. One call can be the difference. Do Squads or Teams do things together outside of work?

I won't lie. By most of the standards, I am a high-risk candidate. I don't really hang out with or have contact with most of my co-workers outside of work. Those that I get along with best are junior to me and most of those that are my peers, I can't stand. I do, however, stay active in the community; mainly volunteering at the local Fire Dept and also teaching lifeguard classes for the AFB down the road, so they can have PT hours.

Taking the time to break from training and actually getting to know one's Soldiers would be a better use of the time.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2014 11:29 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 08 May 2014 23:29:49 -0400

I have one of the best chaplains in the world as my battalion chaplain. He taught the ASIST with another chaplain last spring. I sent four Soldiers to the training. I then utilize them to teach the class to the unit. I find that most Soldiers are more engaged when it is one of their peers up there with personal stories. Too often we as higher ranks tend to PowerPoint it all. My team does marker boards and write down what the group says. This is interactive and it changed with each class. I also attend most, if not all, of these classes for the duration to show that it is very important issue (to include make-up briefings). I will offer up ideas as well as resources such as giveanhour.org that my chaplain introduced me to and some of my Soldiers are utilizing. I also hand out the chaplain's phone number.

After the training I empower my leaders to take away weapons from Soldiers who are questionable at the moment. They are closer to them than me and they can make that call and we then escort them to the chaplain or have the chaplain come to us. They also notice changes and ask myself or others to talk to them to see their thoughts. I have asked the chaplain to talk to some to give me an assessment if they are suicidal. I do not ask what the issue is to respect the confidentiality between the chaplain and the Soldier, but I ask if he considers them a potential threat to themselves or others.

If a Soldier needs more assistance we will seek resources for inpatient, outpatient, or multi-step program.

The key thing for any of this to work is to care. You must show that you care and that they matter to you.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made May 9 at 2014 3:09 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Fri, 09 May 2014 03:09:09 -0400

Step 1, it's time to stop treating people like they're diseased. Suicidal thoughts have been a part of the human experience since the first caveman broke up with his cave girlfriend and realized all he has left is being chased by velociraptors.

It is not a defect. It is not a disease, it is not a syndrome. It is a perfectly normal human stress reaction. Part of the problem is the way we treat these people, like there's something wrong with them. How on earth is that supposed to help? Just be there for them. Help them. Talk to them. But treating it like it's some crazy new phenomenon, a disease or a "problem to be eradicated" is just adding to the problem.

Response by SSG Christopher Freeman made May 9 at 2014 7:34 AM

SSG Christopher Freeman — Fri, 09 May 2014 07:34:19 -0400

I have dealt with a few Soldiers who had these thoughts. What I did was devote as much of my time as humanly possible to help them. I took them to appts, ate chow with them, and showed them how much I cared. Not as an NCO, but as a person. Don't look at it as if a Soldier has the problem. They are a person just like all of us.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 9 at 2014 8:07 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 09 May 2014 08:07:10 -0400

Talk about it often, but not long. Drawn out speeches about it will lose just about any adult. We have all been through that 1-2 hour long briefing about suicide. While there is some good info and statistics out there about it, unless someone is suicidal at that very minute, you are likely to lose them after about the first five to seven minutes. According to a 2011 survey the average adult attention span dropped from 12 minutes to fives minutes in a ten year period.

I have dealt with the ideation, attempts, as well as successful suicide. None of them were my direct Soldiers, but one of them was my 1SG. It is a hard topic to talk about but it needs to be done. Knowing your Soldiers is 90% of the battle. If you truly know them, you will be able to pick up on indicators of things not being like they normally are. So that is where we really need to start.

Response by MAJ Jim Woods made May 9 at 2014 3:12 PM

MAJ Jim Woods — Fri, 09 May 2014 15:12:06 -0400

Most of us Vietnam Vets have either done it or we are not going to do it. I have urged the VA to focus on the Iraq/Afghanistan Vets more.

For me to keep getting asked about my gun ownership is stupid. Ask the newer guys.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made May 9 at 2014 3:14 PM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Fri, 09 May 2014 15:14:24 -0400

No and it will never be enough but that doesn't mean we stop trying and praying that our shipmates quit killing themselves.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2014 7:51 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 10 May 2014 19:51:41 -0400

I myself have been in this situation before and I devote all my time with soldier that I can I do everything I can to spend time with the soldier . I try to show them I care as a person and. Humility I love and care for my joes even when tough love is needed I will always be there for my joes.

Response by SGT Craig Northacker made May 13 at 2014 5:32 PM

SGT Craig Northacker — Tue, 13 May 2014 17:32:19 -0400

One of the most overlooked areas in this world is suicide prevention. I was put on one med that made me want to jump off of high places. One of the most common warnings on the drugs is that they may enhance the desire to commit suicide. Hmmm. Next, the downward spiral begins in active duty. Why is that? Are there dysfunctional people making bad things happen because of misplaced egos? If you lose a stripe, are you moved to a different unit? Did your appeal get ignored? Have you rotated back and are killing time and now get Art 15 from someone who is jealous of your CIB, and they don't have one? What type of actions were you involved with-in or out of combat? Are there any moral injury issues that you can't get over? Are NCO's fully engaged with their charges so they can help direct them to appropriate resolutions of personal issues? Do the officers offer their support? Are people frustrated with the fact that the government is waging a war they do not agree with, and importing illicit things to cover non-budget operations, and not able to do or say anything about it?
there are a ton of reasons, but they all come back to how in touch are we as NCO's with our charges, and what are we doing to help. And, are we able to get help for them, or if we watch them die or go AWOL feel frustrated and angry because we could not make the system work and we failed them?
Fallon, great question, but be careful of using too much common sense while in the military:

“The Navy is a master plan designed by geniuses for execution by idiots. If you are not an idiot, but find yourself in the Navy, you can only operate well by pretending to be one. All the shortcuts and economies and common-sense changes that your native intelligence suggests to you are mistakes. Learn to quash them. Constantly ask yourself, "How would I do this if I were a fool?" Throttle down your mind to a crawl. Then you will never go wrong.”

― Herman Wouk, The Caine Mutiny

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Jun 5 at 2014 8:28 AM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Thu, 05 Jun 2014 08:28:23 -0400

Based on situations I've experienced, a SM/veteran is only going to seek the help they believe they need, regardless of what peers & supervisors tell them. I and many others, just found out yesterday, that my old unit lost an NCO to suicide this past Memorial Day. Tragic to say the least. She apparently moved out of state to get her life back together and despite support from family, friends and fellow SMs, she reached her breaking point. Some are blaming themselves for not providing enough support which does not sound like that is the case and apparently she did seek out help through VA channels. With all that support around how did she reach the point where she felt she had no other choice? I agree with some of the other posts that it is a human condition to have such thoughts, to not be able to conquer them is very sad.
Rest in Peace Sgt.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2014 9:50 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Jun 2014 09:50:39 -0400

Unfortunately no. The answer almost all the time with this and SHARP (the two big issues in the military night now) is generally no. There is always going to be someone who does not take the training seriously, there will always be the person who just speaks at you and not engage the "class", and there are always those people who either just don't want to listen or simply do not care.

I rely on my Soldiers as much as I do on my NCOs and officers to notify me immediately if they feel that someone is "off" and not themselves so we can sit them down and see if there is an issue. Unfortunately I am only one person and as much as I try to be engaged with all of my Soldiers everytime that I see them I cannot. Also, as a reserve unit is hard to track what is normal behavior and what is different when you are not engaged on a daily basis like my active component counterparts. Once again it comes back to relying on everyone in the unit to develop a bond and have that bond so close that if someone is thinking of harming themselves or others that they feel comfortable enough to reach out to someone, anyone and ask for help.

My chaplain can tell you I keep him busy and I think he gets nervous if I am not talking to him at least once a week (during very slow times). I sometimes talk to him several times a day with issues. And that is where the leadership (and I mean everyone is a leader and can call ceasefire type of leadership) need to be engaging and throw up flags as soon as they sense something. Better to react and not be needed than to hesitate and regret for the rest of your life.

Response by SGT Craig Northacker made Jun 6 at 2014 9:24 PM

SGT Craig Northacker — Fri, 06 Jun 2014 21:24:30 -0400

Vets-Help has been working hard with the concept of Moral Injury, and we will be bringing information out soon that will help many folks in distress now - from those who know quite a bit about it.

Stand by...

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2014 7:38 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Jun 2014 07:38:59 -0400

I think a major problem is the stigma that soldiers think that they will be viewed as weak or inferior because they have suicidal thoughts. Some times it's hard to see the signs in garrison because at the end of the day everyone goes there own way.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 10 at 2014 10:40 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Jul 2014 22:40:33 -0400

I've got so many thoughts on this subject in general, pertaining to both the civilian and military world, that I don't even know where to start.

I feel that a lot of the problem is how the military has gradually gone soft because of political correctness. They opened the flood gates for recruiters when Iraq was going full tilt and because of how soft training had gotten, a lot of people who would have been weeded out in years prior weren't. It seemed as if TRADOC had developed a "push them through and let their commands figure it out after" attitude. So we ended up with a soft bunch of individuals who probably weren't emotionally fit and wouldn't have made it 10 years prior.

Speaking for both the military and civilian world, the moral fabric of society has greatly degraded over the years, especially over the last decade. I saw an ad recently for the show suits and I couldn't believe the language that they were using on a basic cable channel that, at one time, you'd only hear on HBO.

Back in the early to mid 20th century, even if people weren't raised as religious, God fearing individuals, there were still basic morals, values, and disciplines that were instilled in people that we just don't really see anymore.

The media sensationalizes and a lot of times even glamorizes murder and suicide. You have all these kids that grew up seeing it on TV and think it's a way to get attention or a way out or something green good and wonderful.
If the media stopped desensitizing people and making them think that it was all ok, we might not have the issues we're seeing both inside and out of the military. Then you've got things like Call of Duty that all these kids play at much younger ages than they really should and they think "Oh wow! War is awesome! I can do this." And then when their buddy gets blown up and they see him bleeding and hear him screaming and they realize that there's no respawn, they're shattered.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 10 at 2014 11:12 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Jul 2014 23:12:49 -0400

It isn't an NCO or an officer issue, or even an enlisted issue...it's a human issue. It effects all of us, in uniform or out. As a result, I think it will take ALL OF US. You need an ear, I am here.

Response by Cpl Matthew Wall made Aug 26 at 2014 8:42 AM

Cpl Matthew Wall — Tue, 26 Aug 2014 08:42:29 -0400

So with the recent suicide at Fort Lee, I'm guessing that enough is not being done. Were the warning signs not there? Does this fall back on leadership? A lot of unanswered questions. Hopefully more comes out about what happened and why.

Response by 1SG Steven Stankovich made Sep 5 at 2014 2:02 PM

1SG Steven Stankovich — Fri, 05 Sep 2014 14:02:28 -0400

Suicide awareness and prevention will always be a 10m target for our Army and our military. The best thing that we can do as leaders is to know our Soldiers and be able to identify when something appears to be out of place. We need to have the courage to ask the question to our Soldiers...are you thinking about suicide? This is one scenario where Monday Morning Quarterbacking or hindsight being 20/20 is not accepted. It is tough and sometimes you do not pick up on the signs; maybe there weren't any. We just have to remain proactive.

I had a friend take his life a little over a week ago. We went to BNCOC together and kept in touch over the internet for the better part of the past 14 years. Our professional paths never crossed again. He would come up on the net every once in a while and we would chat. He came back from his last deployment into marital problems and alcohol issues. We talked a little. He was receiving counseling and assistance. He was going through a MEB and apparently thought that the pain was too much and he took his own life. I feel for his family and for those who were stationed with him at the end. I can say that "I wish that I had" all I want, but we talked so infrequently that to identify something that was amiss would be next to impossible.

Stay vigilant with your Soldiers. Watch them. Know them. Ask them.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 8 at 2014 5:02 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 08 Sep 2014 17:02:13 -0400

My answer is uncomfortable for the military, but I feel it is worthwhile as:

a) mandatory training and PowerPoint isn't reducing the total number of suicides
b) it seems so obvious and yet is never addressed

We need to stop treating Suicide as an individual problem. We enlist folks from all walks of life, every social and economic strata- so why is our suicide rate nearly double that of every other profession in the world? We have poured millions of dollars and hours into suicide prevention training, Master Resiliency Training, poster and leaflet propaganda... what do all these items have in common that is not being addressed?

The United States armed forces.

I am talking about command climate. I am talking about general officers casually ending the careers of Soldiers who have given their heart and soul for the armed forces for five or ten or fifteen years- officers who have never met the Soldier in question. I am talking about senior NCOs who no longer counsel and know their Soldiers, and who fail to express a genuine and staked interest in the emotional and social well-being of GI Joe, the Platoon Sergeants who go home at 1630 and seem inconvenienced by phone calls from their subordinates.

To avoid the perception of, "lets blame the other guy," I submit a simple test to validate my point. Pull up a diagram of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. Now take every sub-bullet contained in the diagram and ask who has the most control over it: the individual troop, the E-5/O-1 level leadership, or the E-8/O-5 level of leadership? It is so stark and clear that there can be no other conclusion, and yet instead of addressing the problem we continue to give the individual "tools" to cope with the daunting amount of nonsense rolling down to the lowest level from on high.

This can be forwarded to DUI, Sexual Harassment, and every other area in which our individual Soldiers are being failed- it's time to address the fact that while we cannot pin these statistics on race, social strata, financial background, or MOS, there is a strong correlation between the frequency of these events and the perception of command climate. We don't need another program- we need better leaders who are accountable for their decisions to an independent counsel (be it civilian oversight or an office parallel to the IG).

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 8 at 2014 5:26 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 08 Sep 2014 17:26:41 -0400

CPL Danielle Johnson _ First very good take on this because I would like more follow-up and I know that we all must do our parts. Some contend they have done their parts already but that is wrong-headed. After all, in the community we know of people who are hurting and there are ways to help them.

And also many times it is outside the chain-of-command or even the VA. The VA is overwhelmed and that is where we step in. We literally have 1,000s whose backs are turned upon and then what?

One example might be a person with a DUI/DWI or some other consideration but these are our brothers and sisters, so we find them a way to get back and forth to work. Whatever it takes and sometimes it is the small things that really do matter.

Thanks for your time and for bringing this up.
Respectfully
Larry

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 9 at 2014 12:40 AM

SCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Sep 2014 00:40:19 -0400

SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member This is a great question. I am sad to say, that as a military health care provider, no enough is not being done. We are still failing to properly take care of our service members mental health. I know mental health is difficult because we can not physically see what is going on, and we are still dealing with the stigma of mental health issues. I feel that it has gotten better, but we still have along way to go.

Response by SGT Craig Northacker made Sep 9 at 2014 5:53 PM

SGT Craig Northacker — Tue, 09 Sep 2014 17:53:15 -0400

Are we referring to the ones officially counted, or the rest of them as well? A good start would be to stop prescribing anti-depressants that have a side-effect of increasing the thought of committing suicide...

Response by CW5 Sam R. Baker made Sep 25 at 2014 4:44 PM

CW5 Sam R. Baker — Thu, 25 Sep 2014 16:44:40 -0400

Regardless of the education and awareness, it takes a lot of individual work and effort of those who work with, like or love an individual enough to see the signs. My 16 year old 2nd cousin had a college scholarship to Auburn University, his own business (horses and renting them), several horses and a myriad of friends when he pulled the trigger on the pistol in 2011. It was my last day in Afghanistan when I found out. Soldiers have done the same thing. There were Facebook posts that eluded to the premonition. As with any addiction, suicide is the same, there are clear and concise signs that folks can see IF they pay attention. Can rehabilitation and HELP actually work? I believe they can IF the individual gets the help they need, not the type of help that is of the enabling kind, but the real kind.

The thing is, no matter how much training and awareness WE get, you always want to tell yourself that so and so is NOT having those problems and we tend to deny that we see what we actually see. I do not know how to fix it, will never admit to knowing how, but I have been on the end of a phone line more then once starting back about 14 years ago and that person is still alive today. I have had more since then, I am not a counselor, a pastor or anything else but a friend to those who sought to ask for help. At the time they all reached out, it was not immediate that they said they were considering it, it was post conversation and later.

TIME is the most valuable asset on the planet, if you give folks some who seek it, listen and be there for them, they may turn the corner and feel the value that life has and not do the wrong thing.

Our programs and the ACE are good guidance, but the key is opening the eyes and ears and staying aware to our surroundings that will ultimately help.

my .02

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Oct 2 at 2014 1:08 PM

CPT Jack Durish — Thu, 02 Oct 2014 13:08:12 -0400

I think it's obvious that we're not doing enough. Just look at the escalating rates of suicide. The real question is what can we do about it? Just as obvious to me is the fact that whatever has to be done will cost and probably cost a lot. Sadly, there's the rub. Taking care of our service men and women, both active duty and veterans, isn't a popular with politicians. They're more likely to produce results (votes for themselves) funding entitlement programs and investing in failed business ventures to repay their donors (it's called "crony capitalism"). Thus, while it is useful to address the issues causing the incidence of suicide and researching potential cures, we must also work on funding for it.

Just a thought here, but we'll have an opportunity to send a message to Washington in a few weeks. Let's make sure we vote well...

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 22 at 2014 1:31 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Oct 2014 01:31:36 -0400

All I can say is that asking for help because of suicidal ideation carries a heavy stigma in the Army. When I worked medsurg, often we would see soldiers who were suspected of suicidal ideation get brought in and they would had to have a unit sitter with them 24/7. So that process required at least 3 soldiers ( of higher rank) to sit in 8 hour shifts and make sure the soldier didn't do attempt anything in the hospital. And you could see the disappointment on the sitter's face from across the room. Usually they didn't even look at the soldier who may have just said the wrong thing. Then they would be taken into the psych ward which was completely locked down and they would just be kept for weeks to sometimes months. It's hard to ask for help if you know you are going to probably get locked away for it. So I always tell soldiers to go to their embedded behavior health center to get seen there. Much better to be seen on the outpatient level then get stuck as an inpatient.

Response by SPC Angel Guma made Feb 18 at 2015 10:46 AM

SPC Angel Guma — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 10:46:46 -0500

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Apr 19 at 2015 2:56 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sun, 19 Apr 2015 14:56:45 -0400

I firmly believe those who want to commit suicide go to a long term facility where they are safe, and have the time to think without the daily stresses. We also need better ways to heal them, one therapy session per week is not enough for some troops.

Response by SSG David Dickson made Aug 29 at 2015 8:05 PM

SSG David Dickson — Sat, 29 Aug 2015 20:05:01 -0400

SPC Miller in a word, no, not enough is being done. If it were the suicide rate would be zero. Sadly, that ideal has not been achieved in any demographic in society or at any time in our nation's history in or out of the Service. We keep trying and never leave a fallen comrade alone. Leaders, NCO's in particular should know their Soldiers. What is their personal situation? Are they having relationship issues? Do they suffer from PTSD? Are they in a bad way financially? Leaders cannot solve every problem, but early identification of red flags can lead to early intervention before a problem spirals out of control. Along with that, what are the Soldier's team members doing to assist the at-risk Soldier? Do they who have more peer-to-peer contact with them let their first line know there is an issue? Do they remain silent so as not to rock the boat or endanger their relationship? I am glad this is "a huge issue with you". I hope you do the right thing if a battle buddy has signs and red flags that you will demonstrate the personal courage and integrity to get them help.

Response by PO2 Corey Ferretti made Sep 9 at 2015 7:50 PM

PO2 Corey Ferretti — Wed, 09 Sep 2015 19:50:59 -0400

There is alot that is going on to help prevent Suicide. There are tons of safety briefs about suicide and the signs to look for, there are numbers to call, there are people you can go see. The problem is the stigma that goes with a person who is suicidal. Once people are educated in that it will help alot. I have been hospitalized twice once for suicidal idealization and once for attempted suicide. I can tell you that i knew what was goign on where to go and how to ask for help. But i was affraid of what people would think of me if i did ask for help. What we need is to keep an eye out and if wee see a hint of someone walking down that bath is to talk to them. Straight up ask are you thinking about suicide? Believe it or not you will get an honest answer.

Response by SSG Michael Scott made Mar 9 at 2016 3:20 PM

SSG Michael Scott — Wed, 09 Mar 2016 15:20:41 -0500

No, but hell no. This is not rocket science. Take the funding from the refugees and put the funding
towards Veteran's Suicide and mental health services. Period.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 18 at 2016 1:20 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 18 Nov 2016 01:20:24 -0500

something you may disagree with me, what was not discussed at all or very little is sobriety