Is giving an APFT 3 days before PCS leave really necessary?

2016-08-02T21:12:12-04:00

Alright let's get this out of the way first, I have never had an issue passing an apft. I currently have a valid apft that I took 2 months ago. A 232 which wasn't my best but it is what it is. Long story short our CO has a memo out stating every soldier must score a 250 or higher or take the apft every month(which not all the soldiers do) but it's the rules. Anyways I take pcs leave in 3 days and was notified a few hours ago that I had an apft in the morning. I already had made an appointment to get my vaccinations for overseas duty that morning. I notified my PSG and got a no excuses answer. So just asking is this really necessary? Let's not bash anyone here. I'm being respectful I just want some others input and maybe there is something I can do.

Response by CW3 Dylan E. Raymond, PHR made Aug 2 at 2016 9:16 PM

2016-08-02T21:16:16-04:00

There is something that you can do find out the location of the APFT and report and execute the PT test. Is everyone treated the same way? Remember you are a Soldier....come on now and make it happen

Response by SSG Jeremy Sharp made Aug 2 at 2016 9:23 PM

2016-08-02T21:23:47-04:00

Lead by example, show up, don't gripe and kick the crap outta that APFT! You can do this. It is not an illegal order so execute it!

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Aug 2 at 2016 9:31 PM

2016-08-02T21:31:37-04:00

While Id rather see a command team focus on a positive approach to increased physical fitness as well as an understanding the APFT is not physical training nor is an arbitrary 250 a magical number that all those who achieve it are somehow leadership superior.
That said, there is no regulatory restriction keeping your commander from wasting his company's time with monthly APFT's
If he would speak to and trust his MFT, or if he does not have one, a nother units, or barring that, ask him to contact me, I'd happily explain why the APFT is not a muscular fitness or endurance building event, not a aerobic improving event, nor is its use as a negitive reinforcement a great way to company fitness.

As you PCS soon, Id say, suck it up, go take the APFT, smile and move on.
Chapter 2
Policy and Management of Flags

https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/pdf/web/ARN10794_r600_8_2_Admin_Final.pdf

ARN10794_r600_8_2_Admin_Final.pdf

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2016 9:51 PM

2016-08-02T21:51:18-04:00

SGT Ronnie Warford Take the test and pass it with a score over 250. Maybe you can get the vaccinations rescheduled, but take the APFT and give your best.

Response by CW3 Matt Hutchason made Aug 2 at 2016 10:16 PM

2016-08-02T22:16:03-04:00

The Army is rife with commanders whose concerns and policies are different than common sense dictates. Sure, the commander wants you to do well when you get to your next unit (a reflection on their leadership skills?). 30 days out is plenty. And that "250 or do it monthly" thing is a bit overboard. I had a similar thing when I was retiring. 2 months from terminal leave, my company commander started asking why I wasn't at PT. I don't know, maybe because I was a CW3 with over 20 years in and I was retiring having spent most of my time in the 10th Marine Regiment and 82nd Airborne Division added to the fact that I couldn't care less about an APFT at that point in my life? The actual answer is this... As a young Lance Corporal in Okinawa PCSing to Camp LeJeune, I missed regular PT 2 days before I rotated. My boss, GySgt Bloomhoff told me "You aren't short until your plane lands at Los Angeles". I was at PT the next day.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2016 10:24 PM

2016-08-02T22:24:24-04:00

Depending on your MOS showing up to the new unit as an NCO with a 232 isn't going to start you off the right way.

I emphasize with the mentality of focusing on the upcoming PCS and not being overly concerned with w/e crap your current unit is doing. SGM Marquez gave the best answer you're probably gonna get.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2016 10:24 PM

2016-08-02T22:24:43-04:00

You already have an appointment for necessary pre-pcs requirements that must have at least 24 hours notice to cancel or change and its viewed as an excuse? I agree with SGM Marquez, its pretty arbitrary. If you must take it, pass it; and move on. However your command should be allowing you the appropriate time to clear (10 working days prior). While that doesn't exempt you from much unless of course you have an appointment....

Response by Jordan Gaudard made Aug 3 at 2016 12:22 AM

2016-08-03T00:22:07-04:00

Don't miss your appointment, but also take the APFT. If taking the APFT would cause you to miss your appointment, make sure your platoon sergeant knows that. If he tells you to take the APFT anyway, do it and show up to try to get your vaccinations anyway. I would love my commander to have a rule about having Soldiers with a 250 or less APFT take it every month, but it wouldn't be possible with a company of over 300 Soldiers.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 3 at 2016 12:41 AM

2016-08-03T00:41:14-04:00

Your choices are:
1. Skip the APFT and hope nobody notices.
2. Show up, do the minimum in each event and hope you are never reunited with anyone in your NCO support channel or chain of command.
3. Show up, suck it up, do the absolute best you can regardless of how silly I, you, and everyone else thinks this is.

One of these will keep you out of trouble, in good favor, and not burn a bridge you may have to try and cross later on.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 3 at 2016 8:27 AM

2016-08-03T08:27:31-04:00

Commanders can administer the APFT as often as they like. I think it's silly to have you take one 3 days before you pcs.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 3 at 2016 9:54 AM

2016-08-03T09:54:42-04:00

I'm not 100% sure but I'm betting if you do some digging, there will be a policy letter or regulation somewhere that says that medical clearing appointments take precedence over PT, but that's a long shot. You may just have to work around the appointment.

The question definitely falls into a grey area between standards and norms. As for the standard, AR 350-1 stipulates that yes, a Commander can administer a PT test whenever they wish, but for it to be a record it MUST be stated as a record before hand and there must be a minimum of 4 months between records. If you have a current test from 2 months ago, it's up to you to decide if that's a battle worth fighting or not.

As for the norm, I'd agree with most of the other NCOs here. Suck it up, knock the test out of the park, don't gripe about it, and set a good example for your junior Soldiers. Then you can move on to your new unit without having burnt any bridges.

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made Aug 3 at 2016 12:54 PM

2016-08-03T12:54:49-04:00

Well unfortunately for you, I don't think there's much you can do. It sounds like someone upstairs is trying to get promoted. The best recommendation is to suck it up and get it out of the way. You're PCSing, so it's the last time you'll have to deal with that unless someone in your new command is trying to get promoted.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 3 at 2016 4:41 PM

2016-08-03T16:41:58-04:00

Hallmark example of Army leadership making the right decision instead of the reasonable one. Embrace the suck and move on, and think of this as another good reason to put that CoC in your rearview

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 3 at 2016 7:41 PM

2016-08-03T19:41:20-04:00

It really bothers me when I see this stuff. APFT and weapons qualifications scores are easily quantifiable, so a lot of commanders use them as a metric of success. Command climate not so much until it becomes a major issue. It is a disservice to the SMs if they are only given a day's advance warning-especially if the (unstated) goal is to improve the company average since the Soldier's have more time to prepare.

BL: No, its not necessary, but it is a lawful order. Yes, you can be given an APFT at any time, but if you are in compliance and not due for a record I'm not sure why they are forcing the issue. Especially since it is so close to your transition. Personally, I feel this is what open-door policies are for.

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made Aug 3 at 2016 10:31 PM

2016-08-03T22:31:39-04:00

I think you already know the answer, but I certainly can understand the frustration. Go ahead, take that deep breath, shake your head in bewilderment at what they're having you do, and then drive on. On the upside, you'll have yet another "Army story" to share someday.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 29 at 2018 2:00 PM

2018-03-29T14:00:57-04:00

So my question is this? Because you do have a valid PT, although below your commander's standards, and you do show up and take your PT test, what are the repercussions of you not getting vaccinated in order to comply with your DA appointed orders to PCS overseas?

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made May 11 at 2018 7:04 PM

2018-05-11T19:04:36-04:00

Technically they can schedule an AFPT any time- because you are suppose to be fit all the time. As you said- Co policy is that all under 250 will take AFPT every month, and your score was under the line. So until you sign out of the Company- you are stuck with their rules.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 7 at 2018 3:07 PM

2018-08-07T15:07:12-04:00

I'm adding my voice to the chorus saying "suck it up"...but I don't necessarily think the commander is right in doing what he's doing.

Do the APFT, then go get the vaccinations. Take your time coming back for them.

Personally, I don't mind taking the APFT, I would mind the last minute notice yanking my schedule around the afternoon prior, when I'm about to go on PCS leave. I guess 1/3 - 2/3 is bullshit.

When I PCSed away from 1st PERSCOM when I was active duty, they had me on staff duty NCO in the middle of the 1 week I was clearing, even though there was a policy saying once you have clearing papers, you come off the duty roster. I had to suck it up.

Response by 1SG Leroy Lucero made Jan 25 at 2020 8:14 PM

2020-01-25T20:14:16-05:00

There should be no reason to take another PT test, since the APFT is good for six months.