Is Intolerance of Christianity by exercising Free Speech right to you?

2014-12-19T02:29:32-05:00

One of my pet peeves is the intolerance of Christianity and so-called Right-Wingers. If a person believes strongly in something, they do because it is a value and those values are who they are.

So attacking their core values is throwing down the gauntlet and challenging those beliefs in ways which are intolerant and even abusive. That love of country, love of their religion and love of a particular way of life.

“You're gonna have to serve somebody; well, it may be the devil, or it may be the Lord, but you're gonna have to serve somebody...”
― Bob Dylan

Freedom of Religion-
ading into the controversy surrounding an Islamic center planned for a site near New York City’s Ground Zero memorial this past August, President Obama declared: “This is America. And our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakeable. The principle that people of all faiths are welcome in this country and that they will not be treated differently by their government is essential to who we are.” In doing so, he paid homage to a vision that politicians and preachers have extolled for more than two centuries—that America historically has been a place of religious tolerance. It was a sentiment George Washington voiced shortly after taking the oath of office just a few blocks from Ground Zero

“I never will, by any word or act, bow to the shrine of intolerance, or admit a right of inquiry into the religious opinions of others.”– Thomas Jefferson, letter to Edward Dowse, April 19, 1803

“The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.” – Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781-82

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/publiccatholic/2013/07/dawkins-mock-them-ridicule-them-in-public-with-contempt/

There are those like Mr Dawkins who have a passionate hate for something he doesn't even believe in. Many of the Christian Evangelists are mere Charlatans like Benny Hinn but his followers aren't too swift.

"For although in a certain sense and for light-minded persons non-existent things can be more easily and irresponsibly represented in words than existing things, for the serious and conscientious historian it is just the reverse. Nothing is harder, yet nothing is more necessary, than to speak of certain things whose existence is neither demonstrable nor probable. The very fact that serious and conscientious men treat them as existing things brings them a step closer to existence and to the possibility of being born." Introduction, p. 9 Magister Lui by Herman Hesse.

What do you think? Do you think that Christianity is being put down too often?

Dawkins: Mock Them. Ridicule Them. In Public. With Contempt.

The reason? The only thing Dr Dawkins has in common with the much ballyhooed and massively exaggerated Westboro Baptist Church is that they both specialize in attacking the sensibilities of other people in order to gain fame for themselves. The similarities pretty much end there.

Response by CW2 Joseph Evans made Dec 19 at 2014 2:44 AM

2014-12-19T02:44:55-05:00

As a general rule, I will not attack a man's faith unless they attack another man's faith, or lack of faith.
I believe that if you represent a beacon of light through the good deeds and set an example to be aspired to, you do not need to either proselytize or attack another faith. Simply be, and the truth will be obvious.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 19 at 2014 3:01 AM

2014-12-19T03:01:19-05:00

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member, I will not expound on my beliefs because I don't wish to engage in a long, drawn-out debate, but I will opine that YES, Christianity is put down too often. I am a Christian and I love my fellow humans equally whether they're atheist, Christian, Muslim, or of another belief... whether they're heterosexual, homosexual, transgender or other. I treat everyone equally.

Is it really too much to ask that non-Christians be as tolerant of my beliefs as I am of theirs? If Muslims want to take time off to worship on Fridays or bow 5 times per day toward mecca, more power to them. If Wiccans want to practice their faith in the military, I have no problem with that.

All I ask is that, if our school-aged children want to pray to a Christian God before their football game or hold a prayer meeting before class, that they be allowed the same freedom to practice their faith as others. Why can't Christians have the same level of religious freedom as Muslims, atheists, and others?

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 19 at 2014 4:00 AM

2014-12-19T04:00:27-05:00

With being a Christian myself, I could care less which religion you believe in. You can believe in whoever you wish and however you wish, or not believe in anything at all. The only time I feel that it becomes an issue is when you feel that your religion gives you power over others' beliefs. That being said, onto the question about Christianity being put down. I feel that as a whole, Christianity is not put down too often, it is the public figures who use the religion as a platform and tell people how they should interpret the Bible that is put down. Then the public figures make it an issue about Christianity when their interpretations are questioned, instead of looking at how their interpretations relate to the subject they are being questioned about.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 19 at 2014 4:19 AM

2014-12-19T04:19:59-05:00

I've never had an atheist knock on my door and try to convert me to atheism.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 19 at 2014 5:10 AM

2014-12-19T05:10:35-05:00

Everyone has a faith in something, or at least I hope they do. But I don't try to push my beliefs of Christianity on anyone. I believe so thats all that maters to me.

Response by SSG Tim Everett made Dec 19 at 2014 8:36 AM

2014-12-19T08:36:14-05:00

I'm not Christian. I'm Jewish, and I'm an agnostic almost-atheist Jew at that.

That being said, I find militant atheists to be incredibly annoying. They complain about having Christianity waved in their face, but they're basically doing the same thing. Okay, we get it: you don't believe in fairy tales. STFU, move out and draw fire.

In other words, live and let live.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 19 at 2014 10:08 AM

2014-12-19T10:08:01-05:00

I think that, in some ways and communities, we have lost civil discourse. Why can't people just disagree? Do Christians and their beliefs somehow invalidate Dawkins' beliefs in his own mind? I know that his beliefs don't invalidate my Christian belief. Why can't people just disagree? Why must everything be a zero-sum game vis-a-vis religion and politics?

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Dec 19 at 2014 11:43 AM

2014-12-19T11:43:57-05:00

Various levels of propriety: Level 1. Civility, well outlined by CW2 Joseph Evans: treat others better than you would like to be treated. Level 2. Professionalism: do not disparage or offend anyone's personal beliefs in a way that would reflect discredit your uniform or service. Level 3. Legality: Free speech must not be infringed by the state, no matter how heinous or worthless, as long as it does not actually cause the loss of someones' life liberty or property. I like to stay between 2 and 1, but governments should never go beyond 3.

Response by SSG V. Michelle Woods made Dec 19 at 2014 1:55 PM

2014-12-19T13:55:58-05:00

What absolutely BLOWS MY MIND is how often my fellow Christians continuously attack Islam with the same level of zeal and ignorance that so many others attack Christianity.

If you are learned in the subject of Islam and/or Christianity then fine, say what you will. But as any follower of Christ should know, it takes more than studying the text to "get it". I have been told by Muslims that the same applies to Islam. Who am I to say any different?

Christians, as much as we feel attacked based on sheer ignorance, imagine how the descendants of Ishmael feel?

Support freedom of religion for ALL or else this intolerance will continue to spread throughout our own faith.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 19 at 2014 3:07 PM

2014-12-19T15:07:07-05:00

People can say what they want. That won't keep me from believing what I hold as Truth. You will tell if the truth you believe in is baseless if the foundation can be easily shaken. Everybody one day or another will have to answer for everything they said and published. Dr. Dawkins can be believe in whatever he wants, I stayed unmoved by his heinous opinions.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 19 at 2014 3:21 PM

2014-12-19T15:21:30-05:00

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 19 at 2014 7:19 PM

2014-12-19T19:19:15-05:00

No good answer here for me. I'll have to go with Christianity is a fairy tale... and add that I believe there is a lot of important truth and wisdom in fairy tales.

No, I do not believe that Christianity is being put down too often… if anything it isn’t challenged enough. That isn’t to say that conversations should be disrespectful or mean, just that they should be frank and open between people who hold different positions on matters of faith. Those who choose to be disrespectful or mean, have in effect disparaged their own position. How can a world view that disrespects and disparages people for their sincerely held beliefs be worthy of respect?

People like Dawkins may succeed in making people who believe differently than them uncomfortable, however I suspect they are more likely to entrench those who disagree with them, than get them to consider some new ideas. At the same time not every criticism is an attack, and not every challenge is abusive… just because you don’t like what I say or believe about your beliefs, doesn’t mean my words are an attack.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 20 at 2014 4:15 AM

2014-12-20T04:15:02-05:00

I would never go up to anyone and proselytize because who needs or wants that. However those guys like Richard Dawson (God Delusion) I will opine on, And I certainly would not argue with him either. It is pointless. He is old and trying to shore up legacy after he is no longer with us here and in heaven. lol. Had to add that....

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 20 at 2014 2:46 PM

2014-12-20T14:46:28-05:00

There are two answers to this question.

The first is that the U.S. Supreme Court has consistently defended the right of Americans to express "hate speech" as a protected type of speech under the 1st Amendment. Legally speaking there's an incredible amount of leniency towards expressing intolerance towards anything, up to and including Christianity.

The second is that while it is legal that doesn't mean that it is right. Intolerance towards any demographic, Christianity included, is generally extremely frowned upon socially/culturally. Anyone that has read my recent "religious bigotry on RallyPoint" topic should know how I feel on the topic, that being that I find it unacceptable. It shouldn't matter how you feel about another faith, to attack it as a whole instead of critiquing individual grievances is not constructive and helps nobody.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 21 at 2014 6:16 PM

2014-12-21T18:16:56-05:00

This kind of belongs here - Chris Rock makes some great points:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/wp/2014/12/18/chris-rock-campus-conservatism-the-interview-and-the-outrage-economy/

Chris Rock, campus conservatism, ‘The Interview’ and the outrage economy

RIP context. It's been a good run.

Response by SSG Tim Everett made Dec 22 at 2014 3:47 PM

2014-12-22T15:47:35-05:00

Oh, something else I've heard from my atheist friends -- a lot of them who aren't militant think that even Richard Dawkins is a huge a-hole and they don't like his style.

Response by PFC Kevin Adrian made Dec 22 at 2014 11:02 PM

2014-12-22T23:02:03-05:00

I have no problem with Christianity but here is the thing, I am a Jew. That being said the first 18 years of my life I was a Methodist. Now you may be saying about now what the heck! Please allow me to explain. I was adopted when i was a month old, my birth father was a Jew and my mother was believe it or not an 8th Generation Apache. Well I was put up for adoption because in those days a half breed was not allowed on the reservation and I do not suppose that the Jewish community would have looked glowing at me either, (That G-d that has changed with the reformed Jewish community). I was raised in a Christian household and well for some reason it never set well with me. When I turned 18 I found that I was in a dilemma, I had no bearing and so I investigated my birth roots. I found I was more comfortable as a Jew so I went through the process of converting to Judaism. My birth father died in 1984 just before I married my wife(who is a gentile, Lutheran). So today I live in a multi - religious household. We celebrate Hanukkah and Christmas, Easter and Passover, and all of the other Jewish Holidays. My sister is a Catholic, I have cousins and aunts who are Mormons, Baptist, Presbyterians, Methodist and even a Amish cousin. I support all of them and they support me. It is in my humble opinion as a bystander that Christians today are admonished, beaten and talked down to like they are second class citizens. My great grandmother it turned out died in the prison camps of Dachau, which I visited while stationed in Germany. I find it unbelievable that we have a president who seems to support the Muslims more than he supports any other religion. Please know as someone who has been both a Christian and a Jew, that I sit back and have seen these things happening. I do speak out and I am very outspoken on this issue. I will always stand with my Christian brothers and sisters. Shalom and Happy Hanukkah and Merry Christmas.

Response by SGT Tyler G. made Dec 23 at 2014 3:58 PM

2014-12-23T15:58:43-05:00

No, I don't find Christianity is being put down to often. No belief, no idea, and no action should be "off limits" to critique; every belief and ideology should be put through the gauntlet of critical examination. The statements, "that offends me," or, "that is offensive," are pointless statements designed to prevent an actual discussion about a topic. Critiquing a belief you hold dear does not in any way infringe on your rights, or your ability to continue practicing that belief, and just because something offends you, doesn't mean it shouldn't or doesn't need to be said.

Response by CW4 Juan Morales made Dec 28 at 2014 12:54 PM

2014-12-28T12:54:51-05:00

Respectfully, and I mean that sincerely since we're all part of the service, I understand that there's a perception of Christianity being persecuted, but I have not seen it. I was raised Catholic in Puerto Rico, and much was made about the lessons of loving your neighbor and helping those who do not have enough. I joined in 1991 and I bounced between Catholic mass and Christian non-denominational services for a while, but nothing seemed right. Just short of turning 29 and attending WOCS, I had a very real and intensive spiritual reckoning. I looked at Buddhism as an alternative, and I like to think it made me a better person but it still wasn't quite right. After that, I arrived at the beginning of where I am now with my humanism and it's still a work in progress.
Now in my humble opinion, and again meaning no disrespect, the divide I'm perceiving from many Christians and sometimes (but not always) conservatives seems to stem from many people who felt 'closeted' about their beliefs now feeling empowered to be themselves openly. Many (again, not all) Christians seem threatened that many things that they were taught to not be ok are held by many outside their faith to be acceptable behavior. However, being that many in society accept these lifestyles does not constitute, nor should it be perceived as, persecution of those wishing to practice their faith.
In my last unit, I was an 'out' atheist. Thankfully that TRADOC unit was composed of mostly seasoned veterans who mostly took me at my worth as a soldier and trainer. However I was often baited into arguments for which I had no desire to be involved, called out for being the only atheist, often as a joke, but that's how it starts isn't it? My wife, a former captain, had similar experiences at the local college, and she mostly keeps to herself.
Many Christians are leaving the church, and a lot of it stems from simply not being able to relate to the current message. It seems to me that many now perceive the message of the church to be defensive, an emphasis on what the church is against: homosexuals, abortion, the acceptance of some fairly major scientific concepts, etc. The emphasis no longer seems to be the things I was raised to belive were the lessons Christ died to teach, to love your enemy, to not judge lest ye be judged, to care for the less fortunate, to treat others as we would have them treat us, to forgive.
I offer a friendly challenge: let's both head to the PX and walk around. I'll wear a t-shirt that identifies me as a Christian, and you (rhetorical) wear one that identifies you as an atheist, and I'll be willing to wager a Sunday morning that the atheist shirt will get unfriendlier glances.
I'm not religious, but I have beliefs. I believe we all serve together. I believe we have an obligation to make our community better. I believe all of us are stronger because of our diversity.
We're all in this together, and we are allowed to disagree.

Response by Capt Jeff S. made Dec 29 at 2014 1:06 AM

2014-12-29T01:06:31-05:00

I've never seen Christians whine publicly and protest about Atheists practicing their right to not believe. What gives?

CW2 Joseph Evans captured my sentiments exactly:

"As a general rule, I will not attack a man's faith unless they attack another man's faith, or lack of faith.
I believe that if you represent a beacon of light through the good deeds and set an example to be aspired to, you do not need to either proselytize or attack another faith. Simply be, and the truth will be obvious."

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 29 at 2014 1:31 AM

2014-12-29T01:31:18-05:00

I don't necessarily believe that "Christianity" has been "put down too often", and, the fact remains: not everybody subscribes to this belief. It's a fact of our existence.
I can't believe in Christianity, any more than you can disbelieve in it. Or, simply not believe.
Being an atheist doesn't mean that someone is anti-religion. It simply means that one lacks a belief in a supernatural power.
There is a distinct difference between the anti-religious and non-religious. Dawkins is not anti-religious. He is atheistic...and happens to be a well-known scientist. He's a "poster boy"...same a Hitchens was. Madalyn Murray was not a spokesman for me. Is Billy Graham yours?

Response by MSgt Rob Weston made Dec 29 at 2014 3:41 AM

2014-12-29T03:41:54-05:00

I personally don't give a damn what a persons race, religion, sexual orientation or there damn shoe size as long as I know they got my back and my breathers/sisters (regardless of branch) backs when the time matters most. A persons individual beliefs is their own buisness, however I do have to wonder why many of the freedom from religion groups are so offended by something they do not believe in in the first place. I have a basic rule " don't force your belief on others and allow others to believe what they want"

Response by CMC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 29 at 2014 10:21 AM

2014-12-29T10:21:50-05:00

I see the religious part of your question, but what are you attacking right wingers for? Although there is a strong Christian base in the right, a majority of us feel that what you believe is your own business and what I believe is my business.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2015 8:15 PM

2015-01-02T20:15:26-05:00

Why are my only choices to make Christianity my life, to mock it, or to be an Atheist?

Poll Fail.

Response by COL Ted Mc made Jan 3 at 2015 12:40 PM

2015-01-03T12:40:38-05:00

You might note that this is an incredibly poorly drafted survey. For one thing it doesn't distinguish between "Christianity" and "Christianity (a wholly owned subsidiary of 'GOD INC')"

It also doesn't make any provision for any religion other than "Christianity" - and then doesn't even specify which marque of the "Christianity" product line retailed by "GOD INC." it is referring to.

Response by SGT Edward Thomas made Jan 3 at 2015 5:01 PM

2015-01-03T17:01:20-05:00

Very well thought out set of ideas. The last time I spoke my opinion about religion/atheism someone down voted me because they didn't like what I had to say. I am a Christian. Do I feel Christianity is or has been persecuted? Yes I do. Especially around the the holiday season. I, honestly do not care what a person believes or doesn't believe. In combat I want my compadres to have my back as I have theirs.

Response by MSG Mitch Dowler made Jan 3 at 2015 8:03 PM

2015-01-03T20:03:43-05:00

As MAJ Ian Dews below states, atheists do no knock on your door trying to convert you. Instead they attempt to box in and restrict your religious expression. On an annual basis surrounding holidays such as Easter and Christmas they publish articles attempting to discredit the Bible and a life of faith. Atheists spend a lot of time and resources being evangelical atheists arguing and attempting to prove a negative. They are also very active in trying to remove any indication of religious belief in public spaces or expression of religious belief in public forum. I err somewhat is saying religious belief because the primary target is Christianity.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Jan 3 at 2015 9:11 PM

2015-01-03T21:11:58-05:00

People have rights. People should be free from persecution. Ideas and opinions do not have rights, nor are they free from criticism. Once you are unable to criticize an idea, that way lies tyranny..

Response by Sgt Adam Jennings made Jan 3 at 2015 9:21 PM

2015-01-03T21:21:54-05:00

One issue I do take with this thread is the inclusion of the mosque near ground zero. There is more to that story than what is being told here. It isn't just Christians that don't want that mosque there. That mosque is run and being planned by an Imam that has known ties to terrorist groups and people who fund terrorist organizations.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/07/22/lazio.muslim.center/

And this is from a liberal news outlet. Take the information for what you will.

Response by SPC Leisel Luman made Jan 3 at 2015 10:56 PM

2015-01-03T22:56:35-05:00

My dad sent this to me today from when my grandfather served. You may not be able to read the small print on the bottom it Reads:
United States Government Printing Office-Washington-1942.

Response by SGT Justin Singleton made Jan 4 at 2015 10:43 AM

2015-01-04T10:43:48-05:00

I was made fun of a lot for being a Christian, but I was also called "preacher" out of respect for my religion (I was a preacher/pastor). I don't think I was ever actually ostracized beyond normal "hazing" between friends.

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 4 at 2015 3:34 PM

2015-01-04T15:34:21-05:00

I honestly don't see Christianity as being discriminated against, the things Christians complain about seem rather ridiculous in the United States as they are still the widely monodominant faith by a rather large margin. The rights of Christians to practice their faith should never be called into question, but if you attempt to impose your faith and the rules of your faith on others, (gay marriage, abortion, wearing fabric blends, eating shellfish, whatever) via preaching or legislation you're out of line, and deserve the push back you're getting.

The Founding Fathers were rather explicit about their designs on a secular government, and our treaty with the Barbary Pirates in the 1800s even explicitly lists that the United States is not a Christian nation. Much of what we consider "tradition" now like "Under God" in the Pledge and on our Currency was inserted in the 1950s to combat communism. A move towards a more secular America is not an attack on Christianity. The Christians I do see openly discriminated against are the kinds that in my opinion likely deserve it. Anti-Science zealots of any flavor, Young Earth Creationists, and so forth.

Meanwhile my faith is openly taught as mythology, raided for ideas for comic books, movies, video games and other popular media because apparently Space Pilot Jesus Christ vs. Mecha Pontious might be considered offensive, but who cares about what non-Christians think about how their religion and culture is used! Until very recently, I would not have been able to be buried under the markings, symbols and customs of my faith if I had died in service. Just a little before that and my options would have truly been limited to a flavor of cross or the Star of David.

Now some people are angry at Christians, especially the original populations of various Christian oppressed faiths that remain, and that anger does tend to translate well to converts. Atheists (and scientists, as they tend to view themselves) have suffered under the Christian hand in Europe as well, and like converts to Christian faith, pagan and atheist converts can get passionate about the injustices created by the dominant faith, and past injustices as they learn about the, (for example, most Christian christmas traditions are Norse Pagan in origin, including Santa Claus, so it can chap some people's ass a bit when Bill O'Reilly's bitching on Fox News about the war on Christmas, when the actual war on Christmas involved Christians forcing people to convert or die at the point of a sword and renaming, then adopting, their religious traditions to make the conversion more "palatable".) Is that right necessarily? Not really, but it's not unexpected, and considering how few minority religions have a serious presence in the United States it would hardly be oppression, lucky are we that we live in such a nation that minority voices can actually be heard at all.

Response by SGT Michael Glenn made Jan 4 at 2015 3:38 PM

2015-01-04T15:38:27-05:00

I say one or the other... if your gonna take away a persons religion then why not take away free speech as well???

Response by LTC Richard Wasserman made Jan 4 at 2015 5:33 PM

2015-01-04T17:33:03-05:00

Need more choices------

Response by 1st Lt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 4 at 2015 6:08 PM

2015-01-04T18:08:29-05:00

Asking whether or not religious intolerance or free speech is "right", and i'm assuming this is in accordance with the US Constitution, shouldn't be the question but rather HOW these intolerance are being played out and whether the methods being used is right or wrong.

Response by SSG Lloyd Becker BSBA-HCM, MBA made Jan 4 at 2015 8:19 PM

2015-01-04T20:19:50-05:00

We Service personnel, whether retired, ETS'd or currently active duty, we have only one duty. When we raised our hand and swore to defend the Constitution, that is exactly what we did.

Until there is an Amendment to the Contitution to be intolerant to Christianity and free speech, we are bound to and by our Oath to fully defend the Constitution and our way of life. To do anything less is a repudiation of our duties as American fighting personnel.

Our command structure is being badgered every day to purge the military of its core values and every day it is working because the command is scared. The command needs to understand that it must follow the Constitution and it also has the power to remove those who do not follow the United States Constitution and those who blatantly disregard these documents. This means everyone regardless of their station.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 4 at 2015 10:36 PM

2015-01-04T22:36:21-05:00

The absolute worst of the slander is that most Christians are said to tell other people that God wants them dead. Most Christians do not feel that way and will tell you so. They then see the terrorists attacks and have nothing to do with them. They will even tell you that those horrors are not endorsed by most Christians.

I am not one that feels all Muslims are bad or that those Muslims want us dead. They do not. Human Rights Activists in Bangladesh oppress women and put Fatiwa against Taslima Nasrin and other arabs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhPDZj45VK4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD5RPPfPLLc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzTKzk0OD5Q

These videos make any Christian abuse pale in comparison but the great heroes are ladies like Taslima Nasrin. Women there are making a differernce in Islam where they live.

Taslima Nasrin Poetry - About merry & sex !

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 5 at 2015 10:01 AM

2015-01-05T10:01:34-05:00

Intolerance of anyone practicing any religion peacefully and doing no harm to anyone is not right! And crushing free speech is never right. Just because someone is offended doesn't mean they are right. Free speech is free speech. With the exception that it isn't hate speech or reckless as in yelling "fire" in a crowded movie theater just for shits and giggles.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 5 at 2015 10:44 AM

2015-01-05T10:44:58-05:00

The voting choices are skewed. Plus, I've found a lot of times that what is being called intolerance is actually not allowing someone to push their religion on you.

I've seen this mostly with evangelicals, where they'll complain if everyone doesn't take part in whatever it is they want to do in the public spaces.

Response by SFC Dan Sorrow, M.S. made Jan 5 at 2015 8:19 PM

2015-01-05T20:19:58-05:00

Did you mean the intolerance directed against Christianity or being tired of intolerant Christians?

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 5 at 2015 10:58 PM

2015-01-05T22:58:28-05:00

I am still waiting for an answer for many, what harm besides some locals who teach against evolution and science. PV2 Private RallyPoint Member SMSgt Minister Gerald A. Thomas CPL Charles Brown

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 5 at 2015 11:32 PM

2015-01-05T23:32:56-05:00

Max Planck, German Physicist, founded Quantum Theory. Simply put this theory gave a tool for understanding atomic level activity and the influence of surrounding fields. Some claim this theory is where science and theology intersect. He was a Christian but did not condemn those who thought differently. He once said, “"Religion is the link that binds man to God." Max Plank: Believer.

Carl Sagan, “The People’s Astronomer," made many interesting statements about God. “The idea that God is an oversized white male with a flowing beard, who sits in the sky and tallies the fall of every sparrow is ludicrous. But if by "God" one means the set of physical laws that govern the universe, then clearly there is such a God. This God is emotionally unsatisfying ... it does not make much sense to pray to the law of gravity.”

Sagan, however, denied that he was an atheist: "An atheist has to know a lot more than I know." In reply to a question in 1996 about his religious beliefs, Sagan answered, "I'm agnostic." By Carl Sagan’s self description, he was an agnostic.

Einstein not only said, "The bigotry of the nonbeliever is for me nearly as funny as the bigotry of the believer," he also said "what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views." It makes absolutely no sense to regard these two scientists' principles as infallible, and totally disregard their own beliefs about the existence of a God or gods.

My realization is to not force anything on anyone that I cannot prove or disprove. Rather the appellations given to Christians for example are condescending, as pretty much Einstein was quoted as saying. Is anyone here that smart?

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 6 at 2015 2:46 AM

2015-01-06T02:46:42-05:00

Most Christians are pretty private except for those who are more extreme in their viewpoints and far too many want to take their narrow dogmas and make them others point of view as well. To me that is sad but they are not me, you or most others for that matter.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 6 at 2015 3:02 AM

2015-01-06T03:02:16-05:00

Imagine for those who push religion (really push it) in effect saying that God would need their help. That would go against the grain of sovereignty. I don't like candles and rosaries but if you need that, have at it.

And does prayer necessarily change a thing? I mean perhaps prayer changes us because destiny is destined to that. How can we argue against our own plight, assuming some choice was done by our own will.

Maybe we need to a Multiverse just to accommodate all the myriad potentialities???

Response by SPC James Mcneil made Jan 6 at 2015 3:08 PM

2015-01-06T15:08:37-05:00

I personally hate intolerance of anyone for any reason. I am a Christian, and when it comes to comments I've seen both here and on FB, I've seen some pretty hateful comments made toward Christians. I've also seen some pretty hateful comments made BY Christians. Hate is hate no matter who does it, and it's wrong regardless.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 6 at 2015 10:11 PM

2015-01-06T22:11:21-05:00

http://recoveringfromreligion.org/hotline-project/

Recovering from Christianity?? lol fun times I tell ya, fun times!!!

Hotline Project - Recovering From Religion

The Hotline Project - A Secular Service Project from Recovering from Religion. The process of leaving religion is usually not an overnight experience, as many of you know. Recovering from Religion receives countless emails and phone calls from people seeking help on their journey away from faith.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 6 at 2015 10:14 PM

2015-01-06T22:14:13-05:00

http://www.debate.org/opinions/does-it-seem-like-christians-are-constantly-bashed-for-their-beliefs

It is a cat and mouse game. Charges and denial (both sides).

Does it seem like Christians are constantly bashed for their beliefs?

Debate.org is a dynamic social community where you can voice your opinion on today’s hottest issues.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2015 1:24 AM

2015-01-07T01:24:53-05:00

http://www.catholic.org/news/international/middle_east/story.php?id=56481

Christians being persecuted/executed according to the Catholic Church.

WARNING GRAPHIC PHOTOS (RAW) - ISIS begins killing Christians in Mosul, CHILDREN BEHEADED -...

Catholic Online International News: Middle East. The best resources for all Middle Eastern news.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2015 1:37 AM

2015-01-07T01:37:43-05:00

He is my sidekick weatherman but RP is big enough for both of us and then some..lol

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2015 1:39 AM

2015-01-07T01:39:36-05:00

Richard Pryor was the best!!!

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2015 3:16 AM

2015-01-07T03:16:05-05:00

http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9041841/the-war-on-christians/

I am providing substantiating claims of people in regard to the topic that I listed here. My beliefs are many and so I do not go after others unless they are going after Christians and ignoring current violence by other churches, mosques, whatever.

The war on Christians

Imagine if correspondents in late 1944 had reported the Battle of the Bulge, but without explaining that it was a turning point in the second world war. Or what if… Readmore

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2015 3:19 AM

2015-01-07T03:19:30-05:00

Some of the rhetoric is maintained within the virtual walls of the Christian Church. Like for example, the role of Satan. Incidentally Satan and his devils play in the NHL.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2015 3:24 AM

2015-01-07T03:24:43-05:00

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_othe1.htm

A look at the various Christian groups and their view of each other.

How Christians View Non-Christian Religions

How Christians view non-Christian religions

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2015 3:26 AM

2015-01-07T03:26:32-05:00

http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8459534

Satan played with the Devils and some suggest that he does that again.....

Miroslav Satan

Miroslav Satan. 2009-2010 Stats: 13 Games Played, 5 Goals, 5 Assists

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2015 3:29 AM

2015-01-07T03:29:28-05:00

The split is not really local to a specific incident, but a gradual divergence that culminated in a split. Already in the 5th century, there was a widening divergence in the views towards the Papacy. There also was a divergence in how both sides viewed the procession of the Holy Spirit. The East drew a clear and defined distinction between the Holy Spirit's procession from the Father alone in terms of Hypostasis and the Holy Spirit's resting in the Son, receiving of the Son and eternal manifestation through the Son. The West, OTOH, did not draw this distinction so readily, and developed accordingly. As the years progressed, the divergences developed further until it ended up in a permanent rupture in communion. Things were really not looking very good by the time of St. Photios the Great; and even though the schism was temporarily healed, it seemed like a Band-Aid solution to a terribly malignant wound.

Although I would think that the Crusades further aggravated and even revealed the fact of schism, it may be perhaps be questionable to locate the cause of the schism to the Crusades. If such were the case, then a mere heartfelt apology and mutual efforts to forgive would be the solution to the schism. Personally, I think the schism runs deeper than a series of misdeeds to and fro'.

That by the Catholic Church too and underscores the division and how certain people took advantage of the changes. As well, Martin Luther in his interpretations were to suggest that Catholics had held secret the meanings of God for their own purposes. I have no comment on that but I do believe politics drives all of this.....

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2015 4:27 AM

2015-01-07T04:27:24-05:00

http://youtu.be/WVWmPn6mKFg 1LT L S

Al Stewart "A Man For All Seasons" Foxton Locks July 2011

Sunday morning 24th July 2011 at Foxton Locks near Market Harborough in Leicestershire. Foxton Locks (grid reference SP691895) are ten canal locks consisting...

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2015 4:36 AM

2015-01-07T04:36:20-05:00

http://youtu.be/7Gx1Pv02w3Q

A Catholic friend of mine was put off by this song and for those who love God in their own, it just might be, but to me it is free advertisement. 1LT L S

Joan Osborne - What If God Was One Of Us

Joan Osborne - What If God Was One Of Us Lyrics If God had a name what would it be? And would you call it to his face? If you were faced with him In all his ...

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2015 4:41 AM

2015-01-07T04:41:40-05:00

http://youtu.be/tDl3bdE3YQA

Edie said, Religion is a smile on a dog..

words do not offend me..

Edie Brickell & New Bohemians - What I Am

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2015 4:43 AM

2015-01-07T04:43:55-05:00

http://youtu.be/5rTz7bBRBYA

Same girl as what I am and now married to a very talented Steve Martin. A very talented musician.

Edie Brickell & New Bohemians - What I Am

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2015 4:50 AM

2015-01-07T04:50:14-05:00

I am an existentialist with the Creator being what and who it is or he is. Plain enough but I strongly dislike tweakers who use stupid little names to characterize what is holy to another.

Response by LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow made Jan 7 at 2015 8:29 PM

2015-01-07T20:29:31-05:00

Being a rabbi, I'm always concerned about people who force their beliefs on me, or others. Talk about your beliefs, fine. Try to proselytize me - even if your denomination calls for it, you're out of line if you try to do that... especially in uniform.

Response by Sgt Packy Flickinger made Jan 8 at 2015 3:46 AM

2015-01-08T03:46:27-05:00

Interesting, this could go down as the topic of the century.
I am an athiest. I do not believe in God, the devil, hell, or the like. I have never attacked ones Christians beliefs. Christians, Jews, Muslims, whomever have the right to believe in who they want to. They DO NOT have the right to force their beliefs on me. Just like Athiests DO NOT have the right to attack religions. Sure, I think think " InGod we trust" on money is hypocratic, but it is of no concern or worry to me. I don't care there is a giant cross on Soledad mountain in LaJolla. Again, it's of no concern.

I submit to the Christians, why do you need to have your symbols thrown in everybody's face? I submit to the Athiests, why does it bother you?

I believe belief in God and religion are separate entities. Yea, that may sound funny but you can believe in God but not practice religion.
I believe the
Morals many religions teach are good. However, those morals (commandments) are basic human decencies and don't need a religious background. Thou shall not kill. Duh, you don't have to be christian to accept that.

Bottom line is, why is it so difficult to believe what you want to, yet let others believe what they want. Why have we as humans become so intolerant. Not just in religion, but in life. If we stop expending energy assaulting, insulting, or conspiring we can accomplish so much more.

Removing one word from the serenity prayer, it should be something that makes sence to everybody

I am am athiest. You can be a Christian. We can be best of friends with this never coming between us.

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2015 4:05 PM

2015-01-08T16:05:51-05:00

I don't want to ridule anyone. I don't even want to talk to you about your religion. Free speech is one thing, but when you're in uniform, professionalism should come first. I don't see how conversations for/against religion fit into a professional work environment. Just do your job.

Response by CPT Zachary Brooks made Jan 8 at 2015 4:32 PM

2015-01-08T16:32:47-05:00

It should be allowed to be ridiculed, but then people should not complain when Christians commit mass murder on people for it.

That's fair right?

Response by SFC Mark Bailey made Jan 9 at 2015 12:32 AM

2015-01-09T00:32:07-05:00

I am not Christian, and never have been...

When I joined the US Army I was given several choices for my Dogtag and my religious prference was not among them.

I was told "NOPREF" was my only choice

I told my Drill SGT that my Religious preference was 'Druid', and without batting an eyelash he dropped me for as many pushups as it took for the dogtag operator to spell it out correctly.

He then proceeded to drop me for pushups everytime he saw me until the day I graduated telling all I had to do was ask for a new dogtag.

I thank my Sr. Drill SGT, SFC McKinley, for allowing me to obtain and wear my correct religious preference which I still have to this day.

Response by A1C Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2015 9:38 AM

2015-01-09T09:38:43-05:00

Grabs popcorn*

Response by CW5 Jim Steddum made Jan 12 at 2015 10:04 PM

2015-01-12T22:04:42-05:00

I am not a bible thumper, but my upbringing along with my moral and ethical behavior is based on a Christian foundation. I can tolerate anyone, except those that try cause me, my family, or my nation harm.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 13 at 2015 5:07 AM

2015-01-13T05:07:22-05:00

To be honest, this 'intolerance' you speak of is more or less my response to having Christianity jammed down my throat. I don't think its fair that its perfectly acceptable for a Christian (or any religion for that matter) to insist on prayer, or make an attempt to introduce me to their religion, while when I suggest that their religion is lacking in evidence I'm accused of intolerance.

Trust me. I don't need to be introduced to your religion. Its not like I've never heard of it. As Stephen Roberts said, "When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." Refusing to believe claims that have no legitimate scientific evidence to back them is not intolerance.

To be honest, I feel that the religious folk who see fit to tell me all about their faith are intolerant.

Response by LCpl Mark Lefler made Jan 13 at 2015 8:40 AM

2015-01-13T08:40:18-05:00

Anyone of any religion or organization can say whatever they want, but they have to be prepared for the backlash, freedom of speech guarantees you can say it, it does not guarantee people will not let you know how they feel about it.

Oh by the way, the fact I'm bisexual does not stop you from going to church, being a good christian or marrying who you want. I say that because i'm tried of hearing "non straight people are interfering in me being a christian.". no for real it doesn't.

Response by SSG Daniel Vaughn made Jan 13 at 2015 12:39 PM

2015-01-13T12:39:49-05:00

This poll is your standard liberal farce. In fact, I find it distasteful to even be on a forum with a bunch of vets and active duty members. The poll is extremely misleading and points to No God. Christianity doesn't have to be my life but it doesn't have to be a fairy tale either. Or if you believe in God then you're a Christian? Aren't there a ton of religions out there that point to A God but no Christianity? I find it ironic the post right above this is "Is Intolerance of Christianity and Free Speech right?" because after seeing this poll it appears it is other religions someone is showing intolerance.
How about 'live and let live' or 'if someone needs THEIR God to get through the day then great!' Just a thought.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 13 at 2015 1:52 PM

2015-01-13T13:52:02-05:00

There's a time and place. I dont personally put down people's religious beliefs. I try my best to respect them. But I don't think a satirist should be murdered or prosecuted for being disrespectful. Its a slippery slope, Id rather free speech go unpunished. Avoid what offends you.

Response by MGySgt Christian MacMillan made Jan 17 at 2015 12:59 PM

2015-01-17T12:59:03-05:00

Freedom of speech is widely misunderstood and used as a shield for bad behavior and a lack of respect for others. No more than you are free to yell FIRE in a crowded theater, you should not be able to make inflammatory statements about others or their religion. Because I disagree doesn't give me the right to attack and belittle.

Response by SFC David Howell made Jan 17 at 2015 6:20 PM

2015-01-17T18:20:48-05:00

Wow, this is always a great way to get people going and piss a few people off. The original question is simple to answer If you believe in our American way of life... The answer is No. On the other hand, I read a lot of talk about what is Christianity, and who is or isn't a real Christian, and this is how I see it. We all have the right to think, believe, and worship whatever we want. We can believe or not believe in whatever we want. As long as we are not infringing on others ability to practice their beliefs. Here is the catch. Lack of faith, or non belief is not a reason for preventing another person from practicing their Faith. If I want to pray to God, Buda, or the 4 winds, it does not matter if there are 10 billion people around me who don't believe the same thing, I still have the right to pray. They also have the right to not pray, as long as that don't intentionally stop me from my prayer... Mission dictating of course. My number one problem is not people who don't believe, but people who are anti-(fill in a group). It will never end, and I know this because conflict is the way of all living things, but I have had many conversations with people of other faiths, and "atheists". We always go into it with a couple of ground rules. 1. We are not trying to attack anyone's beliefs. 2. We are not trying to change anyone's mind. 3. We agree before hand that it is we can agree to disagree. I have to say that I have learned more about my own beliefs by having cordial adult conversations. Intolorance is never good. People need to understand and respectfully agree to disagree. As long as it doesn't take away from another's rights, go ahead and do what you want, and don't judge. You don't know everything about anyone.

Response by PVT Darrell Fuglseth made Jan 18 at 2015 3:36 PM

2015-01-18T15:36:13-05:00

Don't understand having call to prayer in a college for muslums.Were is the outrage?But if it were christian atheists would be screaming .The new protected religion.Islam

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 19 at 2015 4:19 AM

2015-01-19T04:19:58-05:00

I think this clip best explains the importance of religion and beliefs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnaQXJmpwM4

Thus I occasionally have issues with the application not the presence.

'Belief' as according to Death

Clip from the Hogfather where Death explains the nature of Belief.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 19 at 2015 9:46 AM

2015-01-19T09:46:08-05:00

Lot of comments here, so I'll just throw in my 2 cents and be on my way...

I'm an atheist, and while I do see atheists attacking and being intolerant of Christianity, I also see it worse from the other side. A Baptist preacher came to my house while I was at work and sat down with my girlfriend, who was brought up Pentecostal but has since identified as atheist. Since she's a nurse, this was absolutely appalling to him. He showed up at her work the next day and demanded that she be fired. Claiming she did not have the proper respect for the sanctity of life to perform her job. THAT is intolerance. THAT is persecution.

Not quite broad enough? Let's talk about DOMA, and how Christian organizations and leaders were fighting for the *legal* discrimination against fellow American citizens. Or we can talk about Sen. Ted Cruz's dad, Raphael Cruz, who preaches to his congregation that America should be a Christian theocracy. Or we can look at historical examples about how Christianity was first used to support slavery, and then segregation, and how it was criticism that changed these things, it wasn't the solemn respect for someone's way of life and their "values" that brought the changes we see today. I openly invite Christians and conservatives to challenge my views, because I know I can defend them, and I know in my heart they are right and just. If you want your beliefs to be free from criticism, it's because on some level you know you can't say the same. I honestly don't see where people are telling you that you can't speak your point of view, but nowhere in the first amendment does it say that you are free from criticism, or that your opinions and views must be respected.

Response by SPC Shane Farlin made Jan 20 at 2015 4:19 AM

2015-01-20T04:19:57-05:00

I feel that your survey options do not fairly give enough range of choice. One can disagree with your statements without in the same breath iether swearing allegiance to Christianity, or insulting it, the other two options. In my humble opinion

Response by MSgt Joanna Clute made Feb 26 at 2015 8:47 AM

2015-02-26T08:47:35-05:00

When I joined the AF in 1994, I was ambivalent about other religious groups. After 20 years of Christians trying to convert me, being told it was disrespectful not to bow my head when everyone prayed during promotions, graduations, unit functions, having to put NO REL PREF on my dog tags until the early 2000's, and having to take leave for religious holidays, I am borderline hostile when people approach me about their religion. The assumption that I can't be a good Airman or a good wife and mom, because I'm a Wiccan. There wasn't even an option for my religious symbol on a VA provided gravemarker until 2007. So it drives me nuts to hear Christians talk of being persecuted. Are y'all kidding, right? You're the MAJORITY!

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 1 at 2015 5:31 PM

2015-05-01T17:31:50-04:00

I am anti-religion and a non-believer, but that is me. I feel that relationships with (insert your god here) should be personal and intimate. I have been told countless times in my life I am going to hell, and by complete strangers while I am out shopping, drinking coffee, and on my own doorstep. Growing up a Jewish kid, I had Nazi SS bolts painted on my locker with the phrase "dirty kike bitch." All because I believed something different or looked a little different.
All that hateread is too much for me.
I have seen so much hate from Christians on this site in the couple weeks I have been on here, it makes me want to be quite about who I am so that I can get left alone. The other day I saw a retired E5 post that all atheists, Muslims, and non-believers are baby killers and think nothing of killing the innocent. It's disgusting, it is divisive, it is counter productive, and immature. Anyone that speaks like that are what is wrong with this country. when religion and God are brought into any situation there will never be compromise, because now you are asking someone to compromise their belief system. That at is why religion doesn't belong in politics, in the military, or anywhere decisions must be made that effect multiple groups. Some people can't set their personal business aside to for the greater good.

Response by LCpl Mark Lefler made Jul 4 at 2015 4:08 PM

2015-07-04T16:08:59-04:00

You mean Christianity's intolerance of others, Christianity is one of the most intolerant groups to ever exist. While women never had as many rights as they do now through history, Christianity made it so much worse then they were before its existence, women had a voice in Greek and Roman politics, they could vote in some ancient societies. Christian churches in the south taught blacks were lesser to white people, Christians are the biggest group against gay rights. Christians started the crusades, the inquisitions. Christian pastors are saying how gay people should be executed. Don't talk about intolerance against Christians, they made this bed, they need to lie in it. Obviously its not all Christians but its a whole lot of them.

Response by SFC Jeremy Stocker made Jul 7 at 2015 10:22 AM

2015-07-07T10:22:17-04:00

I was Raised Catholic but my theological beliefs are my own and would be incredibly difficult to convey. I do believe that God exists and is in everything but I remain grounded by science.

Response by LTC Nancy Bodyk (Retired) made Jul 8 at 2015 12:42 PM

2015-07-08T12:42:18-04:00

Why are you limiting your responses to just these three? How about you are entitled to freedom of speech and other people are entitled to exercise their freedom of speech by responding. You can't throw out freedom of speech and then get mad because someone else exercises their right to freely respond back to your comment even if it's in a negative light. People seem to forget that there freedom of speech is a two way street. You say something, I say something in return = free speech.