Is Islam a religion or more of a political engine for world domination?

PO1 Steven Kuhn — Mon, 29 Sep 2014 13:26:07 -0400

I am restating a question in a different form from another servicemember. Here is my response, but I would like to hear yours. This is NOT an attack on Islam, but a search for the truth so we can better understand what we are dealing with.
My response: Religion is defined as: re·li·gion noun \ri-ˈli-jən\

: the belief in God or in a group of gods

: an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship God or a group of gods

: an interest, a belief, or an activity that is very important to a person or group

That being said, I would think that many Muslims believe only in the peaceful parts of their religion. A religion should be used to worship a Higher Power (we Christians call Him God) without harm to others. I believe another important part of true worship is that it is of our own free will. Islam is not an option and Muslims who try and convert to other religions are threatened with death. Islam is more of a political engine for world domination than a religion. I develop my personal relationship with God by becoming more Christ-like with each passing day. If I share the Gospel with you, you are free to accept or reject it, and we can still remain friends. In the case of Islam, you are an enemy of all Islam if you do not accept the religion. The Quran calls for ALL Muslims to wage jihad on non-Muslims. The reward for a Christian is everlasting life with God. The rewards for Muslims are more material in nature. With all of this being said, it is my firm belief that Islam is more of a political engine than a religion. Their prophet received more revelations concerning his own desires than any other recorded prophet, telling me that it is not of God.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 29 at 2014 3:19 PM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 29 Sep 2014 15:19:13 -0400

PO1 Steven Kuhn, I think you make a good case with your points. Especially the fact that in many cases leaving the Muslim religion is frowned upon so severely. The contrast between that and sharing the Christian Gospel is an excellent point.

That said, though, I think Islam is a religion. Muslims do believe in God (Allah), they're organized, etc. I think some leaders in Islamic countries (and groups) have hijacked the religion for their own (often) evil purposes. Many Muslims say, and I believe, that the Islam of terrorists (ISIL, for example) is not "true" Islam.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Sep 29 at 2014 3:25 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Mon, 29 Sep 2014 15:25:51 -0400

": an interest, a belief, or an activity that is very important to a person or group"

That almost makes PT a religion...

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Sep 29 at 2014 3:36 PM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Mon, 29 Sep 2014 15:36:54 -0400

Islam is a true religion, but unlike the US, religion and the state are more connected, almost one in the same in some countries, which is why people are highly discouraged from converting. It is estimated that 75-85% of Muslims are peaceful in their practice and like Christian religions, have their radical groups. Unlike Christian religions today, they are trying to seize control of countries - similar to the crusades of old. Back then it was about seizing Jerusalem and other Holy Lands, not wiping each other's religious followers from the face of the Earth. Like with any cause the extremists become the stereotypes and the de facto face and voice of the cause

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 29 at 2014 5:10 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 29 Sep 2014 17:10:51 -0400

The foundation of ISIS's power comes from politics, not religion. Both Syria and Iraq have Shia governments. Sunni Muslims aren't well-represented in either system, and are often actively repressed. Legitimate dissent is often met with violence: Bashar al-Assad gunned down protesters in the streets during the 2011 Arab Spring demonstrations and Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki reacted violently a 2013 Sunni protest movement as well.

Sunnis understandably feel oppressed and out of options. Some seem to be willing to wait and see if life under their fellow Sunnis in ISIS is any worse than it was before. ISIS, for its part, appears to be attempting to exploit this concern: that's why it's set up community, child-care, and medical services in some of the Sunni communities it controls.

That doesn't mean ISIS is morally better than Assad or Maliki: their group is still hyper-violent and genocidal. It's just that outreach to Sunnis is part of their politico-military strategy.---- --Z.B. Sep 10 , 2014

Response by SPC David S. made Sep 29 at 2014 9:49 PM

SPC David S. — Mon, 29 Sep 2014 21:49:27 -0400

Islam is a religion but in its execution by humans it is acceptable to corruption derived from ego, greed, and other malignant behaviors. The real root source of extremist ideology within the Muslim faith I feel has been fostered by a long history of repressive political regimes. The anxiety and frustrations caused by vicissitudes of life in this region have allowed some to cultivate and amass a radicalized following. Additionally I feel that the caliphs have failed their faith as they are emphasizing and encouraging the jihadist mindset. However I would concur that the process and forces at work in the militarization of the religion are political in nature.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2014 4:03 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 31 Oct 2014 16:03:38 -0400

"This is NOT an attack on Islam" ... BUT
"Islam is more of a political engine for world domination than a religion."

Nothing I say about this is going to make you happy, so let me just go ahead and say at the beginning, it's two faced and hypocritical to put both of those statements down within the same message. One makes the other a lie, and if you are going to lie, you have nothing to say that needs hearing.

More importantly, you are playing right into the hands of al Qaida, the Imams in Iran, Imad Mugniyah, Ayman al Zawahiri, former President Makhmoud Aminablowjob of Iran, and if you listen hard, you can hear bin Laden applauding from Hell. All of them want this conflict to be cast as "The West against Islam", and you might as well be a card-carrying member for supporting their propaganda.

I have spent most of the last 12 years in Moslem countries. I was even invited not once, but twice to Moslem weddings. Most Moslems are just like most Jews, Christians, and perhaps even atheists, in that they want to live in peace and give a better opportunity to their children than they had.

Are there problems with Islam and terrorism? Yep. But did you never hear a Christian say, "I don't think abortion clinic bombers are right, but they are right that abortion is murder." Fine, great for you to have an opinion, but that opinion justifies the actions of murderers. Islam has the same problem and Islam is no more to blame for "Islamic" terrorists than Christianity is to blame for abortion clinic bombers.

We do need more Moslems to step up to the plate and clearly say what the truth is. Terrorists are SCUM, MURDERERS, EVIL, AMORAL, less than animals, lower than whale sh1t, (English does not contain sufficient words to describe their depravity) whatever it takes to distance those who want to live in peace from those who want to use any excuse, including religion, to justify being murderers.

We need this as the statement from our government as well. We need to quit supporting the radical "Islam against the West" call and start supporting the "Civilized People against Murderers" call.

So please, tear up your membership card in al Qaida and join the civilized people.

Response by Cadet 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2014 11:29 PM

Cadet 1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 03 Nov 2014 23:29:56 -0500

to be fair here, the muslim religion is no more dominating than Christianity or judiasm 'go and spread the word of god' and all that. Additionally, the inquisitions, crusades...

It is not so much a political engine as a beacon of hope for young men in the region. Look at it from this POV: there is a large birth rate, lots of young men, few young unmarried women, no jobs, no welfare. What else do they turn to? Well, who will keep them busy, give them a pension, a wife? militant groups. Religion in general is only what leaders spin it to be. It is faith that is the true light. Sometimes though there's someone using a circus mirror to reflect it.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 13 at 2014 10:11 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Nov 2014 22:11:18 -0500

One point that constantly irks me is the God vs Allah thing. People do realize they are one in the same? What Arabs call God. Christians in Arab countries refer to god as Allah as well. It's the same diety/concept. God = Allah.

Response by LT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 14 at 2014 12:48 AM

LT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Nov 2014 00:48:13 -0500

If anyone is interested, on the CNO's reading list is a book titled "The Crisis of Islam". It is a good read and speaks to some of the points that all of you have brought up. It is especially informative when discussing why it can be difficult for us in the US to understand how Islam can very much dominate the societies of which it is a part.

Response by PO2 Gerry Roberson made Dec 27 at 2014 1:18 AM

PO2 Gerry Roberson — Sat, 27 Dec 2014 01:18:43 -0500

Adolf Hitler raised Nazism to a religion, replacing Christ on the cross in churches with a portrait of himself and the Bible with a copy of Mein Kampf in its place, baptizing babies before the swastika, loftily muttering "nazibabble" over that poor child. He used it to brainwash and bamboozle the people with a "superiority mindset", murdering millions in his attempt at domination. Historically, use of religion as a political engine usually come to an horrific end.

Response by PV2 Abbott Shaull made Dec 28 at 2014 3:52 PM

PV2 Abbott Shaull — Sun, 28 Dec 2014 15:52:57 -0500

One has to remember when the United State was created, the separation of Church and State was novel concept. In many places it still is, yet not entirely, since lot of the 10 Commandants can be found in our laws. Then lot of laws that were based on teaching in Bible were also translated over too.

Muslim is a Religion for my vote. Like I said in many parts of the world, lot of the moral and ethical things based in law filter in from religion to begin with naturally.

Um...In parts of Iraq, in former Palistine, and other Middle Eastern countries, for centuries Muslim, Jews, and Christian have lived together for years. Yes all religions start out threatening those who don't believe with death. Largely due out of fear of persecution.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Dec 28 at 2014 9:50 PM

CPT Jack Durish — Sun, 28 Dec 2014 21:50:26 -0500

These are the times that try our belief in the First Amendment. We are not alone. The authors of the Bill of Rights had similar problems with Catholicism. In their correspondence you will find a debate wherein they struggled with the concept of giving equal protection to the papists. After all, some reasoned, Catholicism is concerned with maintaining princes to rule over other men which seemed an anathema to the concepts of free people envisioned by the Founders. Ultimately, as you well know, they elected to make freedom of religion equal to all people of all religions. They decided that to exclude any one might tempt future generations to extend the exclusion to others.

Thus, it is an important question: Is Islam a religion? If yes, it's free practice must be respected and protected in the United States. If not, it may be restricted.

Without going into all the legal ins and outs of the question, simply accept that I'm going to cast my vote for "Yes", Islam is a religion. However, that doesn't mean that we must allow such practices as may infringe on another's rights. Remember, your rights end where mine begin. For example, if a Muslim attempts to murder me for any reason (including the free practice of Islam), I have every right to protect myself. Indeed, under my interpretation of the Commandment "Thou shalt not murder", I have an obligation to defend myself. If I allow someone else to murder me when I have the means and opportunity to prevent it, then I am equally guilty of murder as an accessory.

On a less violent note, consider that Mormanism is a religion that has had to discontinue the practice of polygamy to remain compliant with the rule of law in America. I believe that this provides a legal precedent for reining in the more extreme practices of Islam in America.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 29 at 2014 10:15 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 29 Dec 2014 10:15:52 -0500

As SGM Private RallyPoint Member has said in his own response you can't claim to not be attacking Islam and then delegitimize it in the same breath. If you feel that Islam strives towards unethical political aspirations then talk civilly about just that, don't demonize the religion as a whole.

To actually respond to the content of the topic, I too take issue with many of the same things you do. I take issue with any Islamic community that responds with violence towards anyone who converts to another faith. What is and is not jihad is different depending where on the spectrum you find an adherent. Obviously you have the extremists who take a very outwardly violent interpretation, but you also have the other side of the coin where adherents view jihad as an inner spiritual struggle. One does not necessarily equal the other, and Islam is not the only faith that has questionable verbiage in its holy writings.

None of the above is grounds to delegitimize Islam as a whole. Its legitimacy is without question except from the eyes of bigots. I would encourage you, and anyone else reading, to consider this when talking on these subjects in the future. We have Muslim brothers and sisters in arms here on RallyPoint and it shouldn't be too much to ask to create an open and non hostile community for them to interact within.

Religious bigotry on RallyPoint | RallyPoint

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Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2015 6:48 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 04 Feb 2015 18:48:08 -0500

Really, Are there still people that believe that all Muslums are evil. Here is the deal I am a Christian, have been since a child. I am assuming that most individials that have these types of thoughts are Christian as well. I understand all the bad things you can find out there about Islam, and the Koran. You can find words like Jihad and infedel. There are stories in the Koran that one might find very frightening if read without the 100 years of context. Much like this other book, called the bible. The god of the bible called on the Jews to invade Jeruseleum and kill every single living thing there. Leave nothing alive and take the land among others. I do not know many Muslums if any. But, what I am sure of is that of the millions of folks that believe in Islam they have some great people, some that are charitable, some that are over the top, some that are crooked, some that are bad and some that are down right evil. You know what sounds alot like Christianity and every other belief system in the world.

Response by PO2 Kevin LaCroix made Feb 4 at 2015 10:41 PM

PO2 Kevin LaCroix — Wed, 04 Feb 2015 22:41:01 -0500

Islam is as religious doctrine, like christianity, Judism, hinduism. Like most religious doctrines, it gets perverted by the power hungry.

Response by LCpl Mark Lefler made Feb 6 at 2015 1:26 PM

LCpl Mark Lefler — Fri, 06 Feb 2015 13:26:17 -0500

it's a religion, its always been a religion, its not the first nor will it be the last religion to be militant in the name of some god.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2015 9:58 PM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 Feb 2015 21:58:33 -0500

If any one Muslim man can stand up against terrorists, everyone should listen to what he has to say.

The Third Jihad - Radical Islam's Vision for America - (A Clarion Project Film)

(http://www.clarionproject.org) The Third Jihad is a film that exposes the threat that Islamic extremism poses to the American way of life. In 1988, the FBI ...

Response by SGT Tyler G. made Feb 23 at 2015 1:22 PM

SGT Tyler G. — Mon, 23 Feb 2015 13:22:53 -0500

By every definition Islam is a religion. There are extremists in every religion, some are just more visible in the media these days, but even if the religion were truly inherently violent it would still be a religion. You could also argue that all evangelical religions are political engines for domination, that doesn't make them not religions.

Response by SPC Daniel Cahill made Feb 28 at 2015 4:01 AM

SPC Daniel Cahill — Sat, 28 Feb 2015 04:01:02 -0500

Interesting perspective from a non-Muslim viewpoint......

Bill Warner - "A Taste of Islam"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjBDDC4wVxk

Bill Warner - A Taste of Islam

Dr. Bill Warner, Director and Founder of the Center for the Study of Political Islam (CSPI) introduced the elements of the Islamic menu, and taught us how th...

Response by LCpl Mark Lefler made Jun 3 at 2015 9:07 AM

LCpl Mark Lefler — Wed, 03 Jun 2015 09:07:04 -0400

PO1 Kuhn, if you say the Quran calls for muslims to wage jihad on all non muslims then you haven't actually read the Quran or talked to anyone who has because your simply wrong, you are not even using the word Jihad correctly. You really should go and actually you know get correct knowledge before talking about something.

Response by SSgt Robert Dant made Sep 29 at 2015 12:49 PM

SSgt Robert Dant — Tue, 29 Sep 2015 12:49:07 -0400

The question is multiple parts and can be very complex which is why we all struggle with it. But before we discuss Islam let's discuss Christianity and Governments. In the early stages of Christianity it was a Religion and desperately wanted to be tied to human lives and value not governments. However, it was hijacked by European Kings and Queens and made an integral part of their rule. Thus a small group of Christians wanted to focus on the Religion and not government and thus was born the greatest nation in the United States.

Much can be stated about Islam. Islam, Jews, and Christianity all stem from the worship of God (Allah). God started Israel (Jews) through Abraham. Abraham had a son (Ismael) by his wife's made servant. When he was 14 he and his mother were sent out of Abrahams camp. Ismael was a great hunter and warrior. As he was banished from Abraham's camp, God sent an angel to Ismael's mother and promised that he would we great and his descendants would count in the many.

So how did land and religion start. Abraham and the Jews were promised a land of milk and honey - we know it as Israel. The Islam nation, which has always had its split from the Jews, as a part of history and understanding; also want their own land of milk and honey.

Christianity is the one religion where Jesus told us we are the temple and we are the promised land. Therefore we seek on the face of Jesus - not property.

If all of this was better understood - none of this would really be a shock to anyone or a political nightmare.

All three are religions and the worship of the same God.
Two of them desire land as part of their covenant and promise from God.

Anxious to hear the slam back I get from this.

Response by SSG Michael Scott made Feb 26 at 2016 8:53 AM

SSG Michael Scott — Fri, 26 Feb 2016 08:53:27 -0500

If muslims say they are peaceful, how come there has not been more muslims to come together, or unite and do peaceful protests with other faiths within American Cities.? There have been several opportunities, but no action has been taken on their part. Talk is cheap these days. Action speaks, walk the walk to talk the talk.

Response by PO1 Sam Deel made Sep 15 at 2022 4:44 AM

PO1 Sam Deel — Thu, 15 Sep 2022 04:44:00 -0400

It is a theocracy, plain and simple.