Posted on Aug 29, 2018
Is it appropriate for an NCO to counsel a soldier for talking with a GS employee about career planning?
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A civilian GS-13 employee (who is my boss) is a very friendly boss who likes to pull his soldiers aside and ask questions pertaining to reinlistment and what goals i have as a soldier in the army. Now he pulls me aside a lot during the work week and discusses these things with the 4 soldiers who work for him, me included. Now my NCO found out i talked to him and instantly thought i was doing the wrong thing and skipping CoC, and the next day counseled me before even addressing me on the matter. The counseling stated disrespecting a NCO and also stated word for word “I WILL NOT GO TO MR.... ON ANYTHING MY NCO IS NOT TRACKING” and stated i will use proper CoC, and that i will not disrespect my NCO, and she required me to write an Essay on UCMJ’s Article 91... disrespecting an officer/noncommissioned officer/warrant officer whether it is assault or verbal or disobeying an order...the date she required it done was August 29th which was a wednesay but on her counseling it stated Monday. Is it even a thing to counsel a soldier for a GS employee talking to him directly? I have looked everywhere for the regulation but cannot find it! Also does she HAVE to be tracking everything i talk to him about? What if i am not comfortable discussing the things i discuss with him.
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CounselingNCOIC
CounselingNCOIC
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 11
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What kind of asshattery is this? Apparently we have an NCO who is so weak she feels the need to micro manage every single thing a Soldier does. This NCO (and I use the term loosely) needs to GTFO herself already!! Bovine feces like this is exactly why DoD is hemorrhaging good troops faster than my ex-wife can spend alimony payments.
My advice is to let your next higher NCO in the chain know what's happening. It could be just a terrible case of miscommunication, the NCO is going through a stressful time and taking it out on others, or some other interpersonal conflict between the two of you. I'm sure your Platoon Sgt or 1SG can lend assistance.
I bet if the next time the GS approaches you and you politely inform him, "I'm sorry Mr. Xyz, my NCO says I'm not allowed to speak to you unless she gives permission", the GS will handle the situation himself. Especially if he IS a retired O-6 as you've indicated in another response.
My advice is to let your next higher NCO in the chain know what's happening. It could be just a terrible case of miscommunication, the NCO is going through a stressful time and taking it out on others, or some other interpersonal conflict between the two of you. I'm sure your Platoon Sgt or 1SG can lend assistance.
I bet if the next time the GS approaches you and you politely inform him, "I'm sorry Mr. Xyz, my NCO says I'm not allowed to speak to you unless she gives permission", the GS will handle the situation himself. Especially if he IS a retired O-6 as you've indicated in another response.
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Write the essay.
But, As you move forward, “hey SGT, just so you’re tracking, Mr. Xyz asked me about my dog. He’s had diarrhea, so I was going to update him on Mr. patches mcfurry”
“SGY, FYSA...Mr. Xyz asked me about who I thought was going to be in the World Series. Just want keep you in the loop before I respond”
Etc. And then your GS and NCO need to have a talk, because as you’ve described it, the situation sounds ridiculous.
Good luck to you.
But, As you move forward, “hey SGT, just so you’re tracking, Mr. Xyz asked me about my dog. He’s had diarrhea, so I was going to update him on Mr. patches mcfurry”
“SGY, FYSA...Mr. Xyz asked me about who I thought was going to be in the World Series. Just want keep you in the loop before I respond”
Etc. And then your GS and NCO need to have a talk, because as you’ve described it, the situation sounds ridiculous.
Good luck to you.
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SGT (Join to see)
No worries. Be respectful. But your NCO can write a counseling for anything. Big picture, it doesn’t mean much.
And then do what what she asks. ‘SGT, you said said you wanted to be in the loop. I was telling Mr. Xyz about my chronic dandruff.”
And then if she counsels you again, you can say, “whoa whoa, you told me to tell you everything. Now I’m telling you everything and you’re not happy.”
It shouldn’t get to that point. Tell your NCO that youd like her and the GS to talk, as it’s unfair for junior enlisted to be caught in the middle like this. Then, tell your GS the same thing.
Good luck.
And then do what what she asks. ‘SGT, you said said you wanted to be in the loop. I was telling Mr. Xyz about my chronic dandruff.”
And then if she counsels you again, you can say, “whoa whoa, you told me to tell you everything. Now I’m telling you everything and you’re not happy.”
It shouldn’t get to that point. Tell your NCO that youd like her and the GS to talk, as it’s unfair for junior enlisted to be caught in the middle like this. Then, tell your GS the same thing.
Good luck.
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Your NCO sounds like a douche. How is the GS-13 your boss? Like a supervisor or a branch chief or what? How is that "skipping chain of command" when the boss asked YOU a question?
If that was me I would include in my essay on what leadership is and explain how the civilian displays good leadership and mentorship. That's me.
A NCO can write a counseling for just about anything. It's just a counseling. The purpose of the 4856 is to counsel. But it's pretty bullshit that she got mad at you and said you were disrespecting a NCO. How is that disrespecting her? SHE should be asking you those questions too. Does she ask you about goals and plans?
The GS 13 - is he prior service? He probably has some insight especially since he's out of the Army and working post Army life to give you for your future if you get out and don't stay in. Or if you do.
I would never get mad at a soldier who talked to a civilian supervisor or anyone for life guidance.
If that was me I would include in my essay on what leadership is and explain how the civilian displays good leadership and mentorship. That's me.
A NCO can write a counseling for just about anything. It's just a counseling. The purpose of the 4856 is to counsel. But it's pretty bullshit that she got mad at you and said you were disrespecting a NCO. How is that disrespecting her? SHE should be asking you those questions too. Does she ask you about goals and plans?
The GS 13 - is he prior service? He probably has some insight especially since he's out of the Army and working post Army life to give you for your future if you get out and don't stay in. Or if you do.
I would never get mad at a soldier who talked to a civilian supervisor or anyone for life guidance.
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SPC (Join to see)
Roger SFC and that’s exactly all me and Mr.Xyz spoke about was reclassifying and retention and managing work with a newborn. The Gs-13 is a retired colonel(Army) and he is charge of the OPS i am involved with. She does not ask me about goals and plans, hence why I speak with him about my goals as a soldier and he informs me with his experience on how to achieve them, she doesn’t ask me anything, except for appointment slips, and where am I if something changes to schedule. The NCO that is counseling me is currently getting out of the service, so why would i go to someone who doesn’t have the same goals as me, with 0 experience in the MOS i am in. She is one of the supply MOS’s and i am Field Artillery. The retired GS employee is retired FA as well. This kind of leadership in my opinion is toxic and i never thought i wouldn’t trust a leader to lead me properly, but here i am in this predicament.
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SFC (Join to see)
If he's in your chain then go talk to him. Is he her supervisor or her rater? I'd bring it up to whomever is above her. It's crap. It's toxic and it's bs.
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SPC (Join to see)
Roger he is our supervisor. I just don’t want to create “a bad link in the chain” , and In no way am i a perfect soldier, and I’m also not a poor soldier, i perform any task given to me above standard, and i show respect to any rank, whether it’s a E-1 to an E-9, they are humans too. Also i feel like it if i say something there will be repercussions...
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