Is it appropriate for junior officers to call senior officers by first name outside of work with no enlisted around?

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 10 Aug 2018 14:50:27 -0400

When I was a CPT I never addressed any superior as anything other than sir or ma'am in any situation and was never asked to use first names. Now that I am promoted, some CPTs have taken to calling me by my first name in social situations. Not sure if this is acceptable.

Response by SP5 Peter Keane made Aug 10 at 2018 3:09 PM

SP5 Peter Keane — Fri, 10 Aug 2018 15:09:08 -0400

You say social situations, you want to be Major in social situations ?

Response by SGT Joseph Gunderson made Aug 10 at 2018 3:14 PM

SGT Joseph Gunderson — Fri, 10 Aug 2018 15:14:40 -0400

Outside of work, who cares. The military is a job just like any other; as long as we don't start dancing the line of fraternization, I think that it is fine. I had a few officers that I was able to get away with calling by their first names outside of work but we were superior and subordinate while in uniform and or when functioning in any professional capacity.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2018 3:27 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 10 Aug 2018 15:27:54 -0400

I don't think social situations is a big deal - for officers. I don't know I'm enlisted and it's weird even when friends call me by my first name even at this point.

It also made me feel weird at my first joint unit when the AF Lt Col (then Col) as my branch chief was calling me by my first name. So weird.

Response by CPT Lawrence Cable made Aug 10 at 2018 3:29 PM

CPT Lawrence Cable — Fri, 10 Aug 2018 15:29:53 -0400

I must be a bad person, because my 1st SGT and Plt SGT and I called each other by our first names when we weren't with the troops, and I have drank a beer or two with both of them outside of work. When I was on staff, everyone except the BN Co were on first name basis outside of the work environment. I never had a problem with it or had any problems with enforcing my authority afterwards.

Response by LTC Stephen C. made Aug 10 at 2018 3:40 PM

LTC Stephen C. — Fri, 10 Aug 2018 15:40:06 -0400

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member, you're the senior officer, so it's your call. I agree with many of the respondents that a social situation may be different and first names would be okay. Just lay out the rules as SSgt Joseph Baptist suggests. If you're not comfortable with first names, tell them how you wish to be addressed.
Once, I was an HHC commander (as a captain). The S-3 was a major and we were on a first name basis. However, the XO was also a major, and I never called him by his first name.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2018 4:27 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 10 Aug 2018 16:27:02 -0400

While I've noticed senior officers calling junior officers by their first names, I've never been comfortable calling anyone senior to me other than sir or ma'am.

Response by SGT Tony Clifford made Aug 10 at 2018 4:35 PM

SGT Tony Clifford — Fri, 10 Aug 2018 16:35:05 -0400

Sir, it depends. At work, that's never acceptable and I dislike it when senior officers refer to their subordinates by first name. Off duty is a different issue. As a former enlisted man, I only had one friend that I ever addressed by first name and he was the only one who addressed me by first name. On duty, I always addressed him by his surname. I imagine that whether or not you allow a junior to address you by your first name depends on the setting you're at and your familiarity with this junior. Something often more difficult is keeping your personal friendship separate from your work relationship. This is often why enlisted soldiers are moved to different squads or platoons after they make SGT.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2018 4:52 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 10 Aug 2018 16:52:49 -0400

I can definitely see where you're coming from, sir. With that being said I don't generally socialize with my superiors outside of work. To be honest, if I was hanging out on the weekend and someone insisted that I call them by rank I probably wouldn't be hanging out with them in the future. It's not always possible in the military but I'm happiest and most productive when I keep my personal and professional lives separate. Using rank pretty much puts me in professional mode.

Response by MAJ Byron Oyler made Aug 10 at 2018 5:30 PM

MAJ Byron Oyler — Fri, 10 Aug 2018 17:30:46 -0400

Long story short, you are a major and need to make some decisions outside of doctrine and regulations. I am mission orientated and getting the job done, I could give too shits less what you call me. Only reason I do not call enlisted by their first names is I know their NCOs won't allow it back and if I get them into trouble by being lax, I am wrong. Five years ago I walked with a medic while he carried a three week old in a blanket in his arms to the morgue. That was fucking rough and there are a lot of bad times in the military you have to care less about petty things and more about getting the job done. When the end of the day comes, you have to ask yourself, do your people respect you and do you get the job done?

Response by Maj John Bell made Aug 10 at 2018 6:41 PM

Maj John Bell — Fri, 10 Aug 2018 18:41:32 -0400

No it is not acceptable. They need to know it in no uncertain terms. Seniors must avoid the appearance of impropriety. A subordinate addressing you by first name gives the impression of undue familiarity.

If you are a major and a captain addresses you by your first name, I suggest, "On those occasions Captain, where you feel a less formal form of address is called for, you may call me Major, or by my nickname "sir." Do I need to give you further instruction in military custom, courtesy and tradition.

My guess is that by the close of business on the next day the word will be out.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2018 8:12 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 10 Aug 2018 20:12:53 -0400

They should ask first. It's difficult when your buddy is promoted so unless you're trying to force a situation then ask about off duty interaction.
However, you're the senior so the rules you set are the rules they'll follow.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2018 8:19 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 10 Aug 2018 20:19:11 -0400

my mother named me Charles and I like it; it doesn't change like rank does. However, some people can and can't respect boundaries so we use titles and rank (Mr, Mrs, Dr. CPT, 1SG...)
I've had to tell a few people that just because they're using my real name does not mean that we're buddies or imply favored behavior at work. That solves most issues.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2018 8:37 PM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 10 Aug 2018 20:37:28 -0400

I think it depends on the situation and who it is. If it’s someone one rank above and off duty I don’t see the huge deal of first name basis. There are certain people I’m never going to use first names would be commanders O6’s and GO’s.

As aviators we have a mitigation that we use callsigna in many cases with people.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Aug 11 at 2018 10:10 AM

SGM Bill Frazer — Sat, 11 Aug 2018 10:10:46 -0400

It is only acceptable if you ALLOW it.

Response by COL Vincent Stoneking made Aug 11 at 2018 10:40 AM

COL Vincent Stoneking — Sat, 11 Aug 2018 10:40:24 -0400

So, since you were recently promoted. Have these former peers "taken to" calling you by your first name in social situations or have they merely continued to interact with you as they did before the pinning? This is a very important distinction. My suspicion is that it's probably the later and this is nothing more than inertia.

Transitions are tricky times and boundaries are important. The story I tell myself if that your social circle has not changed since you pinned AND you haven't sent a message that your relationship with your former peers has/must changed. Your social circle should change - I'm not saying that you cut off all social contact with Bill, whom you went to OCS with, but you probably shouldn't be hanging out with him every weekend. You also need to message (politely and with tact) that your relationship has changed, at least until Bill pins. Also, you should be actively looking to transition to a social circle that is more heavily weighted to your new peers. CPT to MAJ is a big transition.

If, in reality, people who didn't call you by your first name before are doing so now, you have a different and bigger issue.

FWIW, in my current civilian position, 2 of the managers who report to me are having great difficulty managing their teams, even after 18 months, because they haven't figured out that - having been promoted to management that they aren't "part of the gang" anymore.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Aug 11 at 2018 11:27 PM

Capt Daniel Goodman — Sat, 11 Aug 2018 23:27:12 -0400

I should certainly think that a trifle nervy unless they’re a really good friend even then it still strikes me as nervy certainly....

Response by CPL Adrian Peavy made Aug 14 at 2018 4:43 PM

CPL Adrian Peavy — Tue, 14 Aug 2018 16:43:44 -0400

My NCO's didnt want us calling them by there rank outside of work....but understood that we only knew them by Sgt allen...or sgt gaston....so they gave us a choice to call them by there first name or by rank outside of work...I just kept it professional and called them by there rank at all times lol......you can't be Bobby one day and sgt allen the next lol....

Response by CWO4 Gene A. made Aug 14 at 2018 5:08 PM

CWO4 Gene A. — Tue, 14 Aug 2018 17:08:42 -0400

Times, they are changing. As a white hat, Chief, Senior Chief, Master Chief and Chief Warrant Officer in any situation when I was in (55-83) would always use the appropriate rank address. The whole purpose behind enforcing fraternization rules. Enlisted, Chiefs and Officer clubs and messes were always separate. Hard to lead when on a first name basis with those that you have cognizance over. I might add that those junior normally preferred the instilled separation.

Response by SP5 Lori Pong made Aug 14 at 2018 5:20 PM

SP5 Lori Pong — Tue, 14 Aug 2018 17:20:00 -0400

It really depends on the unit. I've been in a couple where it was always Sergeant or Captain or whatever and my favorite was in Korea...only with the NCOs but when it was just us (we didn't have to be off duty) it was Mike, Molly, Tom and Mel. If others were in the office it was Sergeant Price...etc. I think it's actually humanizing and makes for a better team, especially when you are so far from home.

Response by Sgt Charles St John made Aug 14 at 2018 6:02 PM

Sgt Charles St John — Tue, 14 Aug 2018 18:02:25 -0400

I was assigned to a very small MAC attachment at a very large AIr Training Base. Enlisted and officers called each other by their first names (including our flight commander). As long as there were no “outsiders” around. No saluting either. Very informal! But then again, pilots are a different breed from the rest.
Det 15, 43rd ARRS (HH-43B)

Response by CPT Charles Creed made Aug 14 at 2018 8:16 PM

CPT Charles Creed — Tue, 14 Aug 2018 20:16:26 -0400

I had this when moving from 1LT to CPT. My LT friend was professional enough to bring it up: "what do I call you now, sir?" Anything of a professional nature, anything public at work, it's Sir all day, but we could still hang out and be friends.
If the group expanded on the weekend with new LTs I became Sir again (even if he would occasionally slip up, the others were very good about proper courtesy). It got real confusing when I brought more captains along as we addressed each other by first names and the juniors by first names as is our prerogative, but some of them struggled to transition between Sir and name back and forth constantly (it was a rare occasion).

Response by SCPO William Akin made Aug 16 at 2018 2:48 PM

SCPO William Akin — Thu, 16 Aug 2018 14:48:33 -0400

Being enlisted I don't have a dog in this fight, other than to say, 'What goes on behind Officers doors, stays behind officers doors''

Response by SFC Michael W. made Dec 25 at 2019 1:26 PM

SFC Michael W. — Wed, 25 Dec 2019 13:26:13 -0500

I never called or addressed any of my superior on a first name, even when we're at the clubs or socializing. And I was never addressed by my first name as well...in fact, when my mom called me by my first name I didn't even mentally acknowledge it until she said my full name! Even after retiring, I'm still on a last name basis because most of my friends are either retired military or veterans. It took me a long time to get used to enlisted calling officers by their first name on the Air Force base even though they were not in uniform.
Even fellow NCOs wearing the same rank as myself at minimum would address each other by last name, never by first name.

I'm not saying that it's wrong, but it could possibly cause a rift when performing regular duties...

Response by Lt Col Leslie Bryant made Feb 3 at 2020 12:53 AM

Lt Col Leslie Bryant — Mon, 03 Feb 2020 00:53:55 -0500

In the United States Air Force Office of Special Investigations, we use first names in our offices and around all victims, witnesses, and subjects; so that officers can not intimate our enlisted agents and enlisted do not confess to officer agents solely out of rank. My personnel liked to call me LB which I thought was the first letter of my first name and first letter of my last name. Actually I was told near my departure that it stood for Lady Boss although I know you can probably think of another name if you were mad at an order. I chose to see that name as cute and in a positive light as opposed to overly analyzing it! I also didn’t hear it meant Lady Boss or? until I was departing! See officers do have a sense of humor even if it was the other! Lastly, USAF Special Agents didn’t use their rank unless they were a Major and above or a Staff Sergeant or above but only for attendance at service schools and once we went to our Headquarters for a tour.