Is it appropriate to receive a CAB for indirect fire?

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Apr 2014 07:14:07 -0400

I didn't learn until after leaving Afghanistan that some units were being awarded CABs for indirect rocket attacks if the rocket landed within 300ft of them. I was even told that a COL got CABs for just bout everyone in barracks at Bagram because a rocket landed outside. I had at least 1 rocket land very close to me - close enough to feel the concussive wave - but I never felt it would be appropriate to put in for a CAB for simply being at the wrong place at the wrong time. Seems to me that the point of the CAB/CIB is that you were directly engaged with the enemy.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 30 at 2014 7:23 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Apr 2014 07:23:42 -0400

Direct fire is not a requirement Sir. Some of the "qualified" scenarios I have heard of are far fetched, but if you feel you are deserving, then it can be submitted after the fact. You will need sworn statements and dates.

Response by MSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 30 at 2014 7:32 AM

MSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Apr 2014 07:32:47 -0400

Sir,

When I was deployed to Iraq there were several instances of situations like what you describe. People who lived on a FOB, never leaving it except to redeploy home, were getting CABs because the FOB had incoming morter fire. This was even if the morters landed on the other side of the FOB from these personnel, never really putting them in harms way. Certainly never causing them the need to return fire and "engage" the enemy.

Other poor award decisions I saw was rank based awards. My first deployment EVERY E-6 and above in the Battalion was awarded the Bronze Star. Not a single Soldier below that rank received one. It caused a lot of resentment within th ranks to see a guy who never was engaged get a Bronze Star while the SMs that ran nightly patrols and IED sweeps earned AAMs and ARCOMs.

The flagrant awarding of these awards in situations where they are not warranted only serves to cheapen their meaning. Instead of the CAB showing that a Soldier has fought for his or her life it is instead a bit of a joke. It's almost like a campaign ribbon at this point.... If you deploy to Iraq or Afghanistan you get one. Even if you lived in a bunker the whole time.

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Apr 30 at 2014 8:06 AM

SSG Robert Burns — Wed, 30 Apr 2014 08:06:32 -0400

I think being shot by an actual bullet would also constitute being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I'm just saying.

Response by COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM made Apr 30 at 2014 9:19 AM

COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM — Wed, 30 Apr 2014 09:19:51 -0400

According to ADRP 3-90 Offense and Defense (31 AUG 12), there are eight forms of contact including visual; direct; indirect; non-hostile; obstacles; aircraft; CBRN; and electronic warfare. According to AR 600-8-22 Military Awards (24 JUN 13), the Combat Action Badge may be awarded to any Soldier not eligible for the Combat Infantryman Badge (CIB) or Combat Medical Badge (CMB) after the date of September 18, 2001 performing duties in an area where hostile fire pay or imminent danger pay is authorized, who is personally present and actively engaging or being engaged by the enemy, and performing satisfactorily in accordance with the prescribed rules of engagement. Award of the CAB for indirect contact therefore falls within both doctrine and regulation. Commanders, however, should apply consistent criteria in awarding the CAB. Award of the CAB to a 2 mile long convoy engaged by direct fire only to the lead element, for example, would not be reasonable whereas an indirect attack where you were within the concussive wave and took cover would be reasonable in my opinion. Being in a barracks and not taking any action would not be appropriate. The keys are active engagement by the enemy and satisfactory performance IAW the regulation.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 30 at 2014 9:54 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Apr 2014 09:54:09 -0400

When the CAB came out I was in Iraq at Balad and our battalion commander pointed to the aviation wings on our chests and stated that our wings indicate that we have an expectation to engage the enemy and to in turn be engaged by them both in the air and on the ground as such we were not authorized a CAB. No big deal to me as the only place it is worth money is at a local pawn shop and even than it isn't enough to get me a cup of coffee.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 30 at 2014 2:24 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Apr 2014 14:24:26 -0400

On my first deployment they were handing CABs out like candy. At first it burned me to learn how some in my unit got CABs for being on the roof setting up an antenna as the mortar flies over the COP/FOB. I don't even remember how many IDFs I was in while being attached to the FAR of the BDE, but in no way shape or form was I ever close to an incoming. I might have been in view of where the mortars were landing but I was never in any physically danger. Even with that being said, I would have thought to ask to put in for CAB because as a young soldier in was my understanding that if I earned a CAB, I was steadily engaged sending rounds down range. However, that was not the case for some in my unit and I was BSTB soldier. The sad part which I got over was when we redeployed and back in garrison mode, I devalued the CAB on those MOS specific soldiers I knew. Not to take away from them in any way as a soldier, but I deployed to the same place and my unit at the time was BDE HHC. So painting the picture, you could imagine how pissed you could get being the MI soldier from BDE S2 attached to the FAR out in the suck but somehow the all of BDE S1 or S6 for that matter has CABs, crazy right?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 11 at 2015 11:02 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 11 Apr 2015 11:02:34 -0400

With everyone saying that indirect fire shouldn't count for awarding of the CAB/CIB and that direct fire should always be the case. Then, someone please explain how all these General Officers have the CAB. I was at Basra, and we got mortared/rocketed practically on a weekly basis. One attack, round landed about 200 yrds away. Hell, when we first got into country, within 3 hrs of being at Tallil, we got hit. A round there hit pretty damn close (less than 100 yds). Yet, the lovely standards that the medical task force set forth was that in order to get the CAB, one had to have: 3 sworn statements, drawn strip map of locations of impacts and your location, pictures of the impact and where your location was. And then they all had to be submitted onto the SIPRNET for consideration. Basically, I got the experience the thrill of 46 attacks. If I don't meet the criteria, then how do these General Officers do?

Response by COL Ted Mc made Apr 11 at 2015 12:54 PM

COL Ted Mc — Sat, 11 Apr 2015 12:54:36 -0400

From the thread it appears that the major problem here is the use of the term "Combat" in the CAB.

And the term "combat" isn't sufficiently well defined so that the average person who knows what "combat" is can understand how being 299' 11.5" away from the point of impact of a harassing fire round could constitute "being in combat".

If you know anyone who has been on the receiving end of REAL "incoming" ask them if one or two random rounds of semi-aimed mortar/rocket fire counts as "being in combat". Who knows, after they stop laughing at you they might even give you an honest answer.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 17 at 2015 8:14 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 17 Apr 2015 20:14:26 -0400

these policies do need to be reviewed... there is allot of inconsistency

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Jan 18 at 2016 4:17 PM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Mon, 18 Jan 2016 16:17:34 -0500

I never got mine. I really don't care about it either.

Response by SFC Libby S made Oct 10 at 2016 5:44 PM

SFC Libby S — Mon, 10 Oct 2016 17:44:40 -0400

Does it count if you can see the the earth form a flume and a boom?

Response by SFC Giovanni Bennett made Apr 3 at 2017 1:21 AM

SFC Giovanni Bennett — Mon, 03 Apr 2017 01:21:18 -0400

The day they made the CAB was the day the Army says let's give everyone a participation medal. Non Infantryman and Combat Medics received a combat patch to show they were in "combat" Soldiers wake up in the morning and are told, "Hey the base got rocketed last night. We earned the CAB. Ceremony is at 1300."

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2017 6:23 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 05 Apr 2017 18:23:31 -0400

CAB should be like the CAR which requires you to engage the enemy to be eligible for the award

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 8 at 2017 10:10 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 08 Apr 2017 22:10:50 -0400

This has been happening since the CAB came into being back in 05. I know of people who had a CAB retroactively awarded for IDF incidents in 03 and 04.

Response by CPT Tom Monahan made Aug 10 at 2017 2:01 PM

CPT Tom Monahan — Thu, 10 Aug 2017 14:01:01 -0400

You've got to understand history. The CIB was one of the baby blue trinkets to retain and recruit infantrymen starting in 1943. The CAB does the same for other branches.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2017 1:09 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 17 Aug 2017 13:09:13 -0400

The army messed up when they didn't use the same language as the marine combat action ribbon. For the CAR it pretty much says you need to be shot at by the enemy and return fire. The CAB doesn't have that kind of language.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Aug 17 at 2017 1:24 PM

SGM Erik Marquez — Thu, 17 Aug 2017 13:24:57 -0400

Method of engagement does not matter, Rifle, IED, Rocket..all the same. Attacked and engaged by the enemy.
"Improvised Explosive Devices (IEDs), vehicle-borne IEDs (VBIEDs) and the like are direct fire weapons. While no fixed qualifying distance from an explosion of these devices can be established, commanders should consider the entirety of the combat situation when considering award of the CIB."
"
(b) Soldier must be performing assigned duties in an area where hostile fire pay or imminent danger pay is authorized.

(c) Soldier must be personally present and actively engaging or being engaged by the enemy, and performing satisfactorily in accordance with the prescribed rules of engagement."

No distance form this engagement are specified it is up to the recommender and approver and as it happens, the standard is a numerous as there are recommenders and approvers

Response by SSG John Morgan made Nov 29 at 2017 7:08 PM

SSG John Morgan — Wed, 29 Nov 2017 19:08:15 -0500

One must remember,the C.I.B During WW2 was VERY controversial too.

Response by SPC David Willis made Dec 5 at 2017 1:14 PM

SPC David Willis — Tue, 05 Dec 2017 13:14:23 -0500

I guess technically it would. Think of it this way, if that mortar took off a leg, he would get a purple heart right?

Response by SSG Harry Herres made Jan 5 at 2020 7:15 PM

SSG Harry Herres — Sun, 05 Jan 2020 19:15:43 -0500

Sorry, what is a combat action badge. Guess that came after Nam. Otherwise 1.5 million would have it.

Response by SSG Timothy Stevenson made Jan 5 at 2020 10:19 PM

SSG Timothy Stevenson — Sun, 05 Jan 2020 22:19:37 -0500

Take the CAB, at least your not getting a Purple Heart and a CAB posthumously. FYI, I have three Purple Hearts two from gunshot wounds, one from an IED and a CAB, I think they were all from being at the wrong place and time...it’s just a badge and your still alive. Take it or leave it, the CAB and a 1.50 will get you a coke.

Response by CPT Keith Celebrezze made Mar 30 at 2021 12:02 AM

CPT Keith Celebrezze — Tue, 30 Mar 2021 00:02:07 -0400

First, cool MOS, please pm me if you want to connect. I studied cellular biology in undergrad.

For the CAB issue, technically yes, that's within the scope of the rule.

I don't think it should be. I think that the spirit of the award is direct contact. Now, if you're staring at the artillery, that's different. Anticipation of the danger is crucial.

Good luck.

Response by SFC Melvin Brandenburg made Mar 31 at 2021 4:22 PM

SFC Melvin Brandenburg — Wed, 31 Mar 2021 16:22:27 -0400

Was fire returned? Was the enemy engaged? I think you have to engage the enemy before either the CAB or CIB are awarded. It's best to check the regulations on that one.