Is it appropriate to write your own NCOER when asked to?

SGM Mikel Dawson — Wed, 30 Dec 2015 23:58:25 -0500

I've been told a few times to write my own NCOER. To this I replied, "I will provide you with input of what I have done during my rating period, but I will not do your job for you." Because one time I had to push the issue up the Chain of Command, I received a NCOER which virtually said I could breath and was alive. I was lucky, it had no effect on my career, but I know it can happen. Again I call this poor leadership.

Response by LTC Stephen F. made Dec 31 at 2015 12:01 AM

LTC Stephen F. — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 00:01:53 -0500

That is interesting SGM Mikel Dawson, several times I was asked to draft input to my awards or OERs. I always drafted the NCOERs for those NCOs who served under me.
I concur if a superior officer or NCO tells you to draft your own NCOER that is indicative of poor leadership or laziness or both.

Response by Capt Brandon Charters made Dec 31 at 2015 12:13 AM

Capt Brandon Charters — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 00:13:37 -0500

I drafted my own OPRs at the request of my supervisor several times. It always felt wrong to me.

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Dec 31 at 2015 1:04 AM

Capt Seid Waddell — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 01:04:18 -0500

I not only wrote drafts of my OERs, but drafts of endorsements so that the COC could choose to use one of them if they wished. I never minded it since I was detached for much of the time and my superiors had no opportunity to observe me on a daily basis. I always wrote my men's APRs and NCOERs myself though, since I worked with them daily.

Response by CW2 Ernest Krutzsch made Dec 31 at 2015 5:38 AM

CW2 Ernest Krutzsch — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 05:38:43 -0500

Better yet, how many have been told to write their own award?

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2015 6:11 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 06:11:15 -0500

Both in active duty and in the Army Reserve, I wrote my own NCOER, with two exceptions. Those exceptions were both when I got raked over the coals. Raters and senior raters don't want to do their jobs, but they'll be happy to make you do yours if you have people under you.

Response by Cpl Rc Layne made Dec 31 at 2015 7:10 AM

Cpl Rc Layne — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 07:10:39 -0500

I was once asked to do a self evaluation by my supervisor, as the agency I was working for. I told him that if I hadn't done anything that stood out during the course of the year, all I deserved was a meets expectations for coming to work everyday and doing my job, and I declined to submit the self evaluation. For some reason, he gave me exceeds on it.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2015 8:13 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 08:13:06 -0500

never but I recently seen that being done by another NCO. He told his team leader to write it. I couldnt believe what i was seing.

Response by SSG Dwight Amey MSA, MSL, BS, AS made Dec 31 at 2015 8:36 AM

SSG Dwight Amey MSA, MSL, BS, AS — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 08:36:19 -0500

SGM Mikel Dawson, I have been told from time to time to get my NCOER "ready" for review. The frustrating part of the process was the two sided coin effect. I write the NCOER and am told to correct it not grammar but content. I am thinking, you told me to write it? Then, in my final NCOER I was really tick off when my platoon sergeant duties was written off. I realized I was not in the position with a line item. I was in the position because no one else wanted to do it. One NCO would flat out refuse to do it and get away with it without jeopardy to his career. I could not do that. This was a stab in my back. I got all the heat rounds, long hours, standing on the carpet, took soldiers to promotion boards, just to be taken off my Final NCOER as if I never did any of that off and on for 6 months or so. I scratch my head today.

Response by SGM Steve Wettstein made Dec 31 at 2015 8:41 AM

SGM Steve Wettstein — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 08:41:30 -0500

SGM Mikel Dawson Brother I can't count how many times I was told this. I would generally laugh at them and tell them it wasn't going to happen and that it was their job to do it. Plus I could never write one for myself, I tried a couple of times but couldn't figure it out. I would give them bullet suggestions and do all of page one. I would also proof read whatever they would write for bullets.

Response by SGT Bryon Sergent made Dec 31 at 2015 8:59 AM

SGT Bryon Sergent — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 08:59:47 -0500

My chain told me I had to Write my own NCOER. They said that it was training for when I had to write them on my subordinates!

Response by SSG Carlos Madden made Dec 31 at 2015 9:21 AM

SSG Carlos Madden — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 09:21:42 -0500

The first time I heard this was NCOES of all places. I was surprised but the cadre made a good point: senior leaders often overlook accomplishments and writing your own NCOER is the best way to ensure you're carrer is documented

Response by Olivier Souan made Dec 31 at 2015 9:55 AM

Olivier Souan — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 09:55:20 -0500

While it is okay and useful to have a personal log in order to monitor one's progresses and achievements, the NCOER stays at the basis of the promoting system and, as such, requires authority and objectivity. In some restricted cases (no military or civilian rater available; or if the supervisor really trusts you), however, drafting own one's NCOER could be an option.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2015 9:57 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 09:57:10 -0500

Writing your own NCOER is NEVER appropriate, but has been done for a loooooong time. When you have a lazy rater that don't want to take the time to do their job, it's much easier for them to have the subordinate do it and they can "proof read" it. Pathetic really.

Response by SGM David W. Carr LOM, DMSM MP SGT made Dec 31 at 2015 10:03 AM

SGM David W. Carr LOM, DMSM MP SGT — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 10:03:34 -0500

It is important to give constant input to insure accomplishments are reflected.
This should be easily documented during normal counseling sessions.
With subordinates on the initial counseling we would pencil in goals and objectives to be done during the rated period. So when they were met they became bullet comments unless something of high importance or greater value could replace them.
This way when it came time to complete the NCOER or write awards it was relatively painless

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Dec 31 at 2015 10:25 AM

SSG Warren Swan — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 10:25:04 -0500

I've done it and I was told it was good training and no one knows what you did better than you. The downside to this was the eval was still redinked, and sent back and not just for the usual corrections. I feel if I ask a Solder to write his NCOER, and he writes in there he saved 30kittens while running 12minutes during the run portion of the APFT, and he gives himself an 'excellent ', I know I'm not going to like it, but that's what I asked him to do. I can tell him to go back and reword it. He could tell me no being I tasked him to do it and heaven help me if I didn't do his counseling. I think it's a great mentoring tool, but it should be done by the rater. Or both could using the bullets the Soldier had and he and his rater go over how to use them, what they really mean, and how those 'high speed' bullets can help/harm his future career in regards to SNCO boards. Don't think they'll care about him saving 30 kittens during the run.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2015 11:09 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 11:09:45 -0500

SGM Mikel Dawson You are correct it is wrong and it is the lazy NCO/Officer that would ask you to do that. Now depending on your job or mission they may ask for certain things to put in your NCOER like how much of this did you do what were your totals in that. But that is all the NCOER is our job as leaders to do and to do properly. That is how we shape the army of tomorrow.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2015 11:19 AM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 11:19:27 -0500

It completely removes the eval as a developmental tool but then again, it deviated from that purpose long ago anyway. It now serves as a tool for promotion only.

Response by CSM Carl Cunningham made Dec 31 at 2015 12:24 PM

CSM Carl Cunningham — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 12:24:22 -0500

No. I still make my bosses counsel and write my eval. Now, I have much input to it, but I do not write it. I think it has helped me because I had an officer actually write mine instead of me writing it with the verbage that a lot of NCO's typically use. I know my NCOER's are different.

Response by CSM Elmer Feick Jr. made Dec 31 at 2015 12:25 PM

CSM Elmer Feick Jr. — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 12:25:21 -0500

Unfortunate as it is, this happens way too often. Everyone who has responded would agree that this is a reflection of poor leadership and does not in any way represent the evaluation system as it was designed for. I think it is important to note that if your Rater is asking you to write your own NCOER, then the assumption is that the requisite periodic counseling is not taken place as well.
That said, if your Rater is not tracking your periodic counseling dates there is nothing that says you could "professionally" remind them that he//she has a responsibility to do so. This keeps your Rater honest and in most cases will prevent the "can you write your own NCOER?' at the end of the rating year situation.
In any case, you should always documents rating achievements throughout the year...a suggestion is that you create a word document mirroring the NCOER. This way, if your Rater is not tracking your accomplishments or not doing the requisite periodic counseling's, at least then you have a record your rating accomplishments. Also , if you have additional duties and responsibilities, make sure your Rater provides bullet comments on those as well...an area of the report that is often overlooked.

Response by SSG Bielomawicz Wilkes made Dec 31 at 2015 12:25 PM

SSG Bielomawicz Wilkes — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 12:25:40 -0500

No!

Response by SFC Pete Kain made Dec 31 at 2015 2:54 PM

SFC Pete Kain — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 14:54:17 -0500

I think it's just wrong, and a cop out from the leadership.
Yes I have been asked and refused. But then I have low self esteem.

Response by CW3 Jim Norris made Dec 31 at 2015 2:57 PM

CW3 Jim Norris — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 14:57:22 -0500

Had a couple of experiences like yours, I took a little different tack - fine you want me to write my own - well by golly I think I'm the best thing since sliced bread and you will to......I'm proud that I never placed any of 'my' folks in that position, always wrote an honest and fair eval.....once or twice maybe even cut a couple of folks more slack than they deserved. I've found that the ability to write an effective evaluation has assisted me in preparing business plans and proposals....so, the Army did me a service by helping me develop the ability to write a cohesive and cogent paragraph or two.....amazing how many struggle with the same.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Dec 31 at 2015 5:28 PM

Capt Richard I P. — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 17:28:01 -0500

It depends. Is your leader doing it to develop you? Or is s/he just lazy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FnkFesZSYk

Evaluation

JD Gets evaluated. Dr Cox shows him that he should take a good look at him self and start worrying more about what he sees instead of worrying so much about ...

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Dec 31 at 2015 9:00 PM

TSgt Joshua Copeland — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 21:00:07 -0500

On the AF side, it is par for the course for NCOs and above to write their own EPR, Decs and awards packages.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 1 at 2016 5:51 AM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Jan 2016 05:51:06 -0500

I was asked to write my own NCOER once by an Air Force Major, who wasn't really in my chain of command but was appointed as my rater. He was familiar with my work and that of my detachment (I was the NCOIC with no OIC). I told him I would be happy to provide him a list of accomplishments, but I would not write my own NCOER. If he didn't think enough about my performance to write it for me, then I didn't deserve to get one. He said that wasn't satisfactory, because he wasn't familiar enough with the Army system. I gave him a copy of the regulation and my last five NCOERs. I also happened to mention it to my Senior Rater, a crusty old Army Colonel, who was the Major's boss. Needless to say, but the Major wrote a glowing NCOER for me.

I also had a position with only civilians as my rater and senior rater. They really had never rated military personnel before, so I did give them extensive help, but I still did not write the NCOER for them. They were actually quite engaged in the process, spoke to my unit CSM and S1, read the regulation, and worked very hard to get it right.

The whole evaluation system, especially the newer system in place today, revolves around two major elements. First is the periodic counseling throughout the rated period, so there are no surprises when the NCOER is written. Both the NCO and the Rater are able to stay engaged over the period with how the NCO is progressing toward his or her goals and requirements established at the beginning of the rated period. Second, the NCOER itself should be a collaborative process. The NCO shouldn't write the NCOER, but should help write significant parts of it, based on discussions with the Rater about the goals and requirements, how the NCO progressed through the year, and the overall tone of the NCOER. The Rater should be making suggestions, asking questions, clarifying points, and collecting information. The NCO should then likely draft the report based on all those discussions, just to handle the administrative part of getting it on paper. Then, another discussion with the Rater to go over this draft construction to verify the information and ensure the Rater is satisfied everything is captured and accurate. Once any final corrections are made to the draft, it should be left in the hands of the Rater for final compilation, starting the signature process, and so forth.

This makes the process one of professional development, from the start of the rated period when the NCO and Rater agree on goals and requirements, and through the periodic counseling sessions when progress is discussed, any changes to goals and requirements are made, and additional guidance is given. At the end, the collaborative NCOER deliberative process I described helps both the Rater and NCO understand and ensure the NCOER is an accurate and realistic evaluation of the NCO's performance during the rated period. NOT using this kind of process shortchanges the individuals involved, the organization, and the entire Army. Each NCOER is a building block for the professional development of the entire NCO Corps. Looking at it as only one NCOER for one person, that doesn't really matter all that much is a serious dereliction of duty. IMHO, anyway.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 1 at 2016 9:11 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Jan 2016 09:11:04 -0500

I refuse to make one of my nco's write their own NCOER or award. That is a leadership fail if you are asking your nco's to do that. A support form is there for a reason and it should be used quarterly. If it is used it will help you write the NCOER. I see this far to often and it is nco's being lazy and not taking their time and giving guys what they deserve and that is good leadership.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jan 1 at 2016 2:49 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Fri, 01 Jan 2016 14:49:11 -0500

I would write God's gift to the Army.
Better than the invention of the toaster.
Knows absolutely everything.
Threw grenades 100 meters to repel an ISIS attack.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 1 at 2016 9:24 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Jan 2016 21:24:15 -0500

I wrote all mine except 2, but they were mostly shells. I say it's a plus or minus. If you have good credibility and reputation, it's never a problem. Technically, it should never be like this and I was even understanding to it.

Response by SGM Robin Johnson made Jan 3 at 2016 9:22 PM

SGM Robin Johnson — Sun, 03 Jan 2016 21:22:57 -0500

There are a lot of situations (especially when you are geographically dispersed or in low density MOSs) where even if you have been counseled the rater may not have as much knowledge as you do about all your achievements, or what achievements are actually the most noteworthy in your field. So there are a lot of ways it has been worded to get a draft ready (or provide input, or give some bullets...) and if you choose not to do so you certainly are not required to provide anything. Then the person can go off what is in your counseling and what they know of your performance and no more - and you get what you get. If your boss is giving you the opportunity to have a direct impact on what your record reflects and you choose to have that be the most complete and accurate reflection of your accomplishments, you can do that.

I always told the Soldiers I rated to provide me with any input they wanted me to have and gave them a deadline to get it in. They had the choice of just giving me a list to add to their counseling record, or providing me bullets with the understanding that I wouldn't necessarily use them the way they were written if I used them at all, or they could write their own NCOER if they wanted to with the understanding that I WOULD edit and change it to reflect my evaluation (and they could not mark the boxes). If they chose not to provide any input I just wrote it based on what I knew of their performance. Either way, they got called in as usual to review what I had before it was finalized. It was a learning experience for them however they chose to do it, every time (they were always surprised that I generally knew more of what they had done than they did, actually - or at least knew what they could take credit about that they left off.)

I never got bent out of shape either way. Some people have difficulty with written work - doesn't mean they are bad leaders, they just need assistance in that arena. We have to get each other's back. The more we help those who need it (by going over it with them, not doing it wholesale) the better they get at it.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 5 at 2016 7:56 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Jan 2016 07:56:24 -0500

The NCO writes his or hers own NCOER by their performance. If the leadership is actively engaged in the developement and progression of the NCO, then the question of should an "NCO write their own NCOER" would be null and void. Unfortunately we have an imperfect system which cause many NCOs to "fend" for themselves. Because of poor menitorship and guidance, NCO's are forced to write their own evualtions which lead to over inflated bullets.This in turn has caused the Senior enlisted promotion system to be flawed. Hopefully with the new NCOER process this can be corrected and the right NCOs will get seclected for promotion.

Response by SGM Lonnie Durand made Jan 7 at 2016 5:36 PM

SGM Lonnie Durand — Thu, 07 Jan 2016 17:36:18 -0500

No, it is not appropriate, ever. I'm kind of surprised that in the responses there is some agreement with the practice. The Army Regulation is quite clear on who should write the report, even better, it tells the responsible party what else they are to do, COUNSEL. If you are being asked to write your NCOER, or OER for that matter, I'm guessing you haven't been counseled properly. In my experience, leaders who ask Soldiers to write their report do not counsel. Be your own best advocate, INSIST that your rater counsel you properly, remind them during the year if that is what it takes, though you shouldn't need to. I wouldn't sign a NCOER with bogus dates, one where counseling hasn't been done, either, there is a way to handle that if that presents itself. You can refuse to write your report respectfully, I did so several times. Be prepared to provide input, though shouldn't need to if you've been counseled properly, it doesn't hurt to be involved. If your leader counsels appropriately NCOERs/OERs, and awards for that matter, should be easy to write.

Response by CSM Andrew Perrault made Jan 29 at 2017 6:37 AM

CSM Andrew Perrault — Sun, 29 Jan 2017 06:37:36 -0500

So probably safe to say they weren't getting counselled either......Poor and lazy leadership right there......I'd provide input and then report it up the chain.......

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 23 at 2019 11:38 AM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 23 Jul 2019 11:38:34 -0400

If you want a good NCOER, do it your self. Then have your rating chain review it.