Is it common to see an active duty Army officer serve for 5 years, and only be a 2LT upon separation?

GySgt Bryan A. McGown "Gunny" — Fri, 05 Aug 2016 10:38:22 -0400

Tell me about your experience with this question. Thanks!

Response by SrA Edward Vong made Aug 5 at 2016 10:41 AM

SrA Edward Vong — Fri, 05 Aug 2016 10:41:45 -0400

I always thought that members were given 1LT within a few years.

Response by LTC Yinon Weiss made Aug 5 at 2016 11:05 AM

LTC Yinon Weiss — Fri, 05 Aug 2016 11:05:24 -0400

This is not a plausible scenario. It would have to be some really unusual circumstances.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 5 at 2016 11:06 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Aug 2016 11:06:04 -0400

No, they make 1LT automatically shortly after commissioning. Either your LT was reduced and discharged, or something fishy is going on.

Response by COL Jean (John) F. B. made Aug 5 at 2016 11:08 AM

COL Jean (John) F. B. — Fri, 05 Aug 2016 11:08:09 -0400

GySgt Bryan A. McGown "Gunny" No ... Unless he/she had prior military service before becoming a 2LT.

According to the Army Portal: Requirements for promotion from 2LT to 1LT - " Must have 18 months TIG as a 2nd Lieutenant (hence 18 months TIS as well). Almost 100 percent of officers meeting TIS/TIG requirements will be promoted to First Lieutenant."

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Aug 5 at 2016 11:09 AM

CAPT Kevin B. — Fri, 05 Aug 2016 11:09:54 -0400

That would be uncommon, but it would be for a reason. Promotion is a TIG thing unless there's a reason the Skipper doesn't promote. This isn't done in a vacuum. Separation at 5 years sounds like a the taxpayer paid for your college and you owe the time. The other thing would be a reduction in rank due to UCMJ violation, etc., but that would have resulted in a Admin Discharge minimum as it doesn't make sense to carry the SM along. The separation code on the bottom of the DD-214 will tell the story.

Response by COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM made Aug 5 at 2016 11:11 AM

COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM — Fri, 05 Aug 2016 11:11:44 -0400

A few thoughts/comments:
- The short answer is that No, it is not common to see an active duty Army officer serve for five years and only be a 2LT upon separation.
- The pin on/promotion point for active duty officers varies over the years based upon several different factors (number of annual accessions, number of separations, whether Army is growing or shrinking, etc).
- The average or rule of thumb over the past couple decades has been about two years for promotion from 2LT to 1LT and about two more years (four years active service) for promotion from 1LT to CPT. Some times less time and some times more time based upon the factors mentioned in bullet one.
- In my 24 years of service I have never seen an officer separate after five years and still be a 2LT.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 5 at 2016 11:17 AM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Aug 2016 11:17:45 -0400

Perhaps if some of the five years was as an enlisted person.

I did know a Marine who was a retired 1LT.

Response by SFC Kenneth Hunnell made Aug 5 at 2016 11:18 AM

SFC Kenneth Hunnell — Fri, 05 Aug 2016 11:18:58 -0400

Was he our she prior enlisted

Response by SFC John Hill made Aug 5 at 2016 11:25 AM

SFC John Hill — Fri, 05 Aug 2016 11:25:23 -0400

In the Army, had a 2LT been passed over for promotion twice they are for all intents and purposes forced out. A 2Lt is eligible for promotion at 18 months TIG. They are looked at annually. When one considers that the promotion rate is practically 100% from 0-1 to 0-2, to be passed over "raises an eyebrow." Typically 1LT's are being considered for promotion to Captain/0-3 by their 5th year of service. The service member may have had a service school TIS commitment to fulfill.

Response by SFC Richard Quistorff made Aug 5 at 2016 11:32 AM

SFC Richard Quistorff — Fri, 05 Aug 2016 11:32:57 -0400

I served from 1974 - 1996 in the US Army and I have never heard of that before .... ever.

Response by SSG Jeremy Sharp made Aug 5 at 2016 11:45 AM

SSG Jeremy Sharp — Fri, 05 Aug 2016 11:45:12 -0400

It has been quite a few years since I served and the combat operations have surely had an effect on the selection process for officer advancement as has the draw down of the military forces. That having been said, the situation you described is not the norm. A competent officer could expect to see 1LT at about the 2 year mark and CPT between the 4 to 5 year mark.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Aug 5 at 2016 12:27 PM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Fri, 05 Aug 2016 12:27:44 -0400

No it's not common in the Air Force or Army. One way I can think of for it to happen is 4 years enlisted and 1 year commissioned service. But that's not normal because a new officer generally gets a service commitment of over 1 year.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Aug 5 at 2016 12:51 PM

PO1 John Miller — Fri, 05 Aug 2016 12:51:52 -0400

I worked for an officer (LT O-3) who got a letter of reprimand and still got promoted. Last I heard he was a CDR (O-5).
So to get separated after 5 years and still be a Butter Bar, he would have to been the biggest dirt bag and would not have stayed 5 full years.

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Aug 5 at 2016 12:55 PM

CPT Aaron Kletzing — Fri, 05 Aug 2016 12:55:26 -0400

I can't think of a realistic scenario where this would happen. So my answer is no.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 5 at 2016 1:52 PM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Aug 2016 13:52:23 -0400

From commissioning source to MOSQ there is a space in time. If you get hung up in that space in time, you cannot be promoted. I knew a WO1 that left WOCS at Ft. Rucker and was involved in a car accident en route to WOBC. He was severely injured and hospitalized for an extended duration. While undergoing rehabilitation, he was unable to attend WOBC and therefore, at the 2 year mark, was not promoted to CW2.
It is conceivable that this 2LT did not complete his OBC or was a problem child and was overlooked. Most likely a combination of the two.
If you have both your degree and completed your military education, the only thing preventing you from getting promoted is a signature from your boss. After a few strikes, you're out.

Response by SGT Harley Ruger made Aug 5 at 2016 4:33 PM

SGT Harley Ruger — Fri, 05 Aug 2016 16:33:26 -0400

Umm...no,

Response by SGT Jerrold Pesz made Aug 5 at 2016 8:40 PM

SGT Jerrold Pesz — Fri, 05 Aug 2016 20:40:43 -0400

When I was in promotion from 2Lt to 1Lt was automatic after 12 months TIG unless the guy was really screwed up. I only knew one officer who was passed over for 1Lt and they gave him the boot. I never saw anyone come close to retiring as a 2Lt. Lots of people got out as a 1Lt but that was because in those days very few officers or junior NCOs stayed past their initial obligation.

Response by COL Lee Flemming made Aug 6 at 2016 1:11 AM

COL Lee Flemming — Sat, 06 Aug 2016 01:11:31 -0400

No, but I could envision a scenario like this happening if the officer left under other than honorable conditions (i.e. Misconduct).

Response by SSG Jeremy Sharp made Aug 6 at 2016 3:11 AM

SSG Jeremy Sharp — Sat, 06 Aug 2016 03:11:35 -0400

The only other scenario I can see is a late 2nd year civilian OMVI/DUI which resulted in being passed over twice and forced out.

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Aug 6 at 2016 4:20 AM

SGM Mikel Dawson — Sat, 06 Aug 2016 04:20:22 -0400

Could have been enlisted first, then changed.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 6 at 2016 1:50 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Aug 2016 13:50:50 -0400

As likely as it is to find an E1 with five years. Highly unlikely unless there was some "special" circumstance.

Response by ENS Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 7 at 2016 2:52 AM

ENS Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 07 Aug 2016 02:52:50 -0400

I've never seen this before. At least in the Navy, advancement to LT (O3) is automatic after 4 years..

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 2 at 2016 7:51 PM

2LT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 02 Oct 2016 19:51:25 -0400

Only was is prior enlisted service.