Is it fair that Reservists, particularly AGR, get promoted so much quicker than Active Duty?

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 10:22:24 -0500

I work with an Airman who entered the military around the same time as me, but as a reservist. I recall us both being E3s in 2013. About one week ago I ran into her and she was wearing a Tech Sergeant stripe (E6)! It's only been three years since she was an E3!

She informed me that in the reserves you promote when your shop needs to fill a certain slot. You don't have to test either?

It all seems a little screwy to me and I wonder how others feel?

Response by SSgt David Tedrow made Jan 9 at 2016 10:31 AM

SSgt David Tedrow — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 10:31:53 -0500

What is fair today? Active and Reserve both have different needs and at times promotions are faster in one over the other to fill needed slots. It's just the way things work at times.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2016 10:41 AM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 10:41:09 -0500

I do feel that they should not promote as quick as they currently do. As an example, guard obtain their rank by being hired into a position that requires a certain rank to hold it. But what I have to go back to is where reserve and guard augment active duty. Do we want to have a VERY inexperienced leader heading a no fail mission? Not necessarily. That doesn't state that they can't do it but it does put them at a perceived downfall.

Response by Sgt Mark Ramos made Jan 9 at 2016 10:42 AM

Sgt Mark Ramos — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 10:42:16 -0500

I would be more concerned about the safety aspect rather than the fairness of it. Many younger service members are very mature and have good heads on their shoulders. But, putting too much responsibility on them before they have a chance see how it's done and develop leadership skills can have disastrous results for them and those around them.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Jan 9 at 2016 10:56 AM

COL Charles Williams — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 10:56:06 -0500

Not sure anything is fair, nor will it ever be. Fair is a matter of perspective and opinion.

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member I can't speak for the USAF... but I suspect we are similar as the Army and the USAF both have NG and Reserves and AGR... In the Army, many things are the same... but when incomes to Army Reserve, Army National Guard, and the AGR, there are two areas that are quite different and unique to their component - (1) Pay and benefits, and (2) Promotions.

Is it fair? Not sure that is a consideration. It is different. Most I have seen, do get promoted faster, as it is a small pool, who compete against each other for open slots... But, then it slows, as the higher you get the fewer we need... and the fewer slots we have.

My vote, would be to drop program, as I see it is huge waste of personal and resources. I don't think they provide any value added, and I think the AGR program a place that attracts folks who could not make in the active force... I could cite many, many, examples...

I do, however, feel your frustration. So, Let me illustrate this via a little war story... "Back in the Day...."

When I was a company commander commander at Fort Drum... we had 3 companies in our Battalion, and our HHD (Headquarters) Commander was an idiot, and a mess; failing as a leader and especially at the core failing when it came to Army Values... I drove on, and they resigned after their service obligation, and went into the traditional ARNG. Soon, they eventually landed one of these highly coveted AGR slots...

From then on, every time we crossed paths (at every rank)... they were on rank higher than me... and did that by never doing anything but being an advisor... They never commanded a company on the line, a battalion, or brigade... But, made Colonel, and retired just like me... Never having done anything particularly hard, dangerous, or which required any significant responsibility...

So, perhaps, the trick is to find one of these AGR slots, as they appear to be a very well kept secret.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2016 11:10 AM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 11:10:07 -0500

It seems like many of them promote quickly up to a certain point, but eventually get stuck in that E5 or E6 spot and can't promote unless someone retires, moves, or they move. The system doesn't bother me. They need a spot filled and they pick the most qualified individual for the job.

Response by SSgt Jim Gilmore made Jan 9 at 2016 11:13 AM

SSgt Jim Gilmore — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 11:13:46 -0500

My how things have changed. When I went from AD to Reserves I put on Tech for two reasons. 1. I was filling a Tech slot and 2. I was already a 7 level in my prior field. That was only temporary too. I had to achieve a 7 level in the new field for it to be permanent. Circumstances forced me to leave the reserves before I got the 7 level and discharged as SSgt. My knowledge although outdated may still be relevant. You move into the next pay grade or promoted if you will when A) a vacancy exists, B) you have at least minimum time in grade and C) have appropriate skill level or ability to achieve it. I knew an admin WAF at McClellan in a Reserve slot. She was in Reserves for 13 years and was an E-9....go figure.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2016 11:46 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 11:46:39 -0500

Doesn't bother me because it's outside of my control. All I can do is worry about my own promotions on the active duty side of the house.

Response by MSgt John Taylor made Jan 9 at 2016 1:09 PM

MSgt John Taylor — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 13:09:03 -0500

Yea, but she may never get promoted again. Also, there's usually a lot more politics involved in Guard & Res outfits.

Do your best to advance and don't worry about everyone else.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jan 9 at 2016 1:10 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 13:10:06 -0500

I think I saw an MDAY NG SGM with 11 years in.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2016 2:18 PM

CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 14:18:42 -0500

That is very surprising indeed. She was likely a seasoned E-3 when you saw her last in 2013. She would have to promote soon after that meeting to SrA and then made SSgt within her required Time in Grade (TIG) of 8 months. THEN, make TSgt in her required TIG of 12 months. However, that would still be tenuous based on experience as well as PME and skill level. I would have probably had a hard time standing by this quick series of promotions. Especially as a Reservist (no disrespect but they are, by definition part timers) has little time to hone their craft, let alone their leadership skills.

I cannot speak for the Guard. The Reserve structure definitely differs to the AD in promotion, but there is a criteria that has to strictly be met in order to do so. There is no test, so to speak, yet there is PME, TIG, TIS, skill level prerequisite, billet placement, Command approval required.

Billets get very difficult to come by as you go up. I describe it as the "pyramid"--thinner towards the top. Unit Reserve structure is also vastly different from IMAs as well.

Response by SFC JosephWe Wesley made Jan 9 at 2016 3:00 PM

SFC JosephWe Wesley — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 15:00:01 -0500

AGR Soldiers do not get promoted fast. I came on the program an E7, and I retired as an E7. After being a company 1SG 3 times, a BN 1SG once, and the acting SGM for S3 while deployed to Iraq! Nobody could explain why I was never promoted. I had no bad strikes, always attended different schools, was a family readiness leader, and a ESGR Rep. However, the Reserves do have a different promotion system than active duty, and opportunities to advance is not as strict. Some Service members decline their promotions due to not wanting to travel far, or because of their job status at home. I always took my promotion no matter where it was. Sometimes it how bad are you willing to sacrifice to move up?

Response by SMSgt Thor Merich made Jan 9 at 2016 4:17 PM

SMSgt Thor Merich — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 16:17:21 -0500

Its probably as fair as anything else in the AF. I knew a guy in the ANG that changed AFSC's to a critical AFSC and went from SSgt to MSgt in 2 years. How he did it, I have no clue.

My best advice would be to study hard, do your PME's, and get educated. In the end, you will more prepared and more promotable that others.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2016 1:34 AM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 10 Jan 2016 01:34:58 -0500

It may all smooth itself out in the end. Most likely what happened is that she was given a position vacancy promotion or PV promotion. This can be a bad thing if promoted too rapidly. In the reserves she will have to make sure she can find jobs that are E6 or E7 with the possibility of having to get permission to fill a One below. If she can not perform at an E6 level she could find herself losing her position and having to find another position at the same level. She cannot promote to E7 if she is not holding a E7 position.

PV promotions are not automatic and are at the SQ/CC discretion. Some commanders hand them out and some don't. My commander is not a fan of the PV promotion system, and would only do it for exceptional reasons and only if having the next rank makes sense. In the reserves we have a saying, that it is possible to promote yourself out of a job. So what may seem like she is getting the hookup could very well lead to a not so hot future.

Granted without all of the info its hard to know what was involved in the decision process. If she is an ART, she could be a GS7 or 8 and this sometimes allows the military rank to be closer to the GS pay grade. The reserves look at other things like educational level as well.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2016 11:32 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 10 Jan 2016 11:32:30 -0500

I would also like to add an opinion/request in regards to this discussion. Rather you're Active, separated, or retired we all went through similar teachings.

Derogatory remarks directed to or about other service members is not only a true representation of your character, but something that would land you in deep water if your were still held accountable under UCMJ.

I don't appreciate reading it and I'm confident others would agree that we need to "lock it up". I'm not trying to be the stereotypical "sensitive" service member that many feel like we have nowadays, just would like to see people treat others with the respect we all deserve. Thank You

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2016 2:46 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 10 Jan 2016 14:46:08 -0500

I would have to say that I am 50/50 on this. I have seen some AGR soldiers struggle to get their promotions. I know for me, I came in as an E4 and no matter how many times I was recommended for the board because of my high PT and leadership skills and civ ed, I was told no because I needed more time in grade and service. Nothing about them needing a slot filled. I was sitting in an NCO slot to begin with and still didn't get promoted. I didn't mind so much because I wanted to learn my job well but others did. I finally got promoted this past AUG though. Now, I have seen where TDY soldiers were going up in ranks pretty fast because they were "buddy buddy" with certain individuals. I have 2 AD battle buddies who are being forced out for failure to progress simply because they didn't want to. No matter how hard their SNCO's pressed, they were content. Another they aren't allowing to reenlist because he had surgery done and just sat back and did nothing but blame his surgeries. So, I think that it all depends on the individual and where they are as far as their duty stations because that is not the truth for all. You never know. Screwy, most certainly but there is really no way to tell unless you catch someone in the act.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2016 3:55 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 10 Jan 2016 15:55:43 -0500

As a Guardsman, I can say that your friend had to have 6 years TIS, 2 years TIG as a SSgt, and an open spot rated for a TSgt. She didn't have to test for it. However, you're more likely to be promoted to SNCO ranks than she is, and I'd be willing to bet that CMSgt is completely beyond her reach. W

Response by MCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2016 6:57 PM

MCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 10 Jan 2016 18:57:09 -0500

When I taught at the Air Force Senior NCO Academy, one of my students was an Air Guard Master Sergeant (E-7)... with just over NINE years of service.

When you are in the Guard, you fill a specific billet. Her billet was an E-7 slot. Every time she was eligible to be promoted, she was promoted automatically - up to the point that she met the pay grade necessary for that particular job. Odds are that she will NEVER see SMSgt. That's just the way things go with the Guard.

Derek, just remember this person when you make MSgt or higher... and she's got 10 years TIG at SSG...

Response by SrA Matthew Knight made Jan 11 at 2016 6:48 AM

SrA Matthew Knight — Mon, 11 Jan 2016 06:48:42 -0500

I tend to not question Guard/Reserve anymore. We had a guy go through tech school with us who sewed on SrA immediately after graduation. They can promote you through the first few ranks quick but it's also very easy to hit a point where you don't go any further for a very long time. As others have said, they promote you when a position holding that rank opens up. That could be a few months after your training or a few years.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 11 at 2016 8:02 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 11 Jan 2016 08:02:06 -0500

While it may seem unfair to you that someone you knew as a E3 is now a E6, you're only looking at part of the picture. Guard and Reserve units can only promote individuals if there is a slot available, so while they may move faster initially in rank, they may hit a stopping point quicker too. For example if there is no empty E7 slot in her unit so may be a E6 for years to come. Until a MSgt promotes or retires. Many also choose to cross train to promote. Where as in active duty if you promote and there is no position available you simply PCS. Also while they do not have to test, they do have to complete all upgrade requirements before they can promote and in many cases have to apply for a position when it comes open.

Response by SMSgt William Gardner made Jan 11 at 2016 9:39 AM

SMSgt William Gardner — Mon, 11 Jan 2016 09:39:33 -0500

I will tell you that it can be quicker to be promoted. The biggest advantage is there is no WAPS testing.
However, Reservist must achieve the required PME, meet the required TIG, pass their PFT, and be recommend their Commander.
In a sense, what can be the hardest part is that there must be a "Vacancy" in the manning document for an Airman to billeted to over E-5.
The three year time from E-3 to E-6 might be possible if your friend was ready to put on E-4 when you last saw her. I think the TIG is 18 months for E-5 and then E-6. Higher enlisted promotions require 24 months TIG.

Response by TSgt Aaron D. made Jan 11 at 2016 4:42 PM

TSgt Aaron D. — Mon, 11 Jan 2016 16:42:24 -0500

What you don't hear is about the overages who are ineligible for promotion like me.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 11 at 2016 5:58 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 11 Jan 2016 17:58:27 -0500

Response by Col Rebecca Lorraine made Jan 11 at 2016 6:04 PM

Col Rebecca Lorraine — Mon, 11 Jan 2016 18:04:39 -0500

As a reservist, the promotion trend is specifically related to vacancy. There are two perspectives, you in active duty work at your career full time. You don't have another career separate from the military. That reservist doesn't have the option of changing units, so if there isn't a slot vacant which may be the case in many reserve units. The type of unit and AFSC also affect manpower. It can be very frustrating to not be able to get promoted even with the training and accomplishments. My recommendation is to work on yourself, show leadership in your own unit, be the best in your career field and take care of everyone. Trust me, the grass may appear greener on the other side!

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 11 at 2016 7:08 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 11 Jan 2016 19:08:11 -0500

It doesn't seem fair, and I'm a reservist that promoted ahead of my AD counterparts. However, the latter will get their retirement immediately, and need not worry about balancing 2 careers for years. (i.e. When you support an AD command, and they want their support immediately - not waiting for the wknd.) Just referring to my designator, many of them won't have to deploy as the reserves are taking the bulk of it.

So I'm not complaining, but when I think about the sacrifices we (reserves and NG) also have, I don't feel badly about it.

Response by MSgt Wayne Morris made Jan 12 at 2016 7:05 AM

MSgt Wayne Morris — Tue, 12 Jan 2016 07:05:11 -0500

Guarding the commissary and Exchange from the communist plague once a month is tough work.

Response by SSgt Jon Harrison made Jan 12 at 2016 1:23 PM

SSgt Jon Harrison — Tue, 12 Jan 2016 13:23:53 -0500

I was in the AG for 10 years. I was an e-4 when I started and an E-5 when I retired. My unit had almost no slots come open when I was there, thus no promotions.

Response by SSgt Phil Sigman made Jan 13 at 2016 3:34 PM

SSgt Phil Sigman — Wed, 13 Jan 2016 15:34:30 -0500

That's the way it was when I was in the Air Guard too. If there is no available slot, you might be an E-5 forever. I think I preferred the old WAPS testing system or if you are not a good test taker, the "time in grade overcomes ignorance" rule, lol. I was an E-5 for 4 additional years because there were no slots for an E-6 in my shop in the ANG (5 years active duty). If I would have joined the ANG under my original career field I would have had to go down to SrA.

Response by SSgt Bob Williams made Jan 14 at 2016 3:06 PM

SSgt Bob Williams — Thu, 14 Jan 2016 15:06:11 -0500

I get it, but on the flip side when I was in the AG, my AFSC did not have any slots for anything above E5, so once you hit E5 you were done. Sounds like your friend lucked out, in her particular situation.

Response by MSgt Bruce Hutchinson made Jan 16 at 2016 12:43 AM

MSgt Bruce Hutchinson — Sat, 16 Jan 2016 00:43:06 -0500

Well as one that has experience with both, I can say that the reserves don't necessarily promote quicker, just differently. We have to complete the same requirements as active duty to become eligible except for the WAPS test. Once we have all the TIS, TIG, CDC, PME requirements (same as active) completed, we have to wait until there is a slot available in our squadron/wing. If there's no slot available we can wait a very long time. Sometimes I felt that I was probably competing with a hand full of others as the highest ranking SSgt in the whole Air Force before my commander finally signed off on the TSgt stripe. I did make MSgt rather quick after qualifying, I worked my ass off to complete all the qualifications for SMSgt. I was on the qualification list 2 years after making MSgt, but was never promoted again, I held that rank 8 years after qualifying for the Senior stripe. I don't regret anything. Hell I feel honored to have held that stripe especially since my father also held E-7 for 10 years (I technically outrank him by TIG) and he said that I'd never make it in the military :D

Response by SSgt Paul Esquibel made Jan 16 at 2016 1:59 PM

SSgt Paul Esquibel — Sat, 16 Jan 2016 13:59:56 -0500

Yes, it's fair because the lady you speak of could have possibly have been a E-3 for 9 years, the system goes both ways, if there are slots available and you qualify for the promotion then you are promoted, what you have to understand is the Guard/Reserves are more of a civilian organization of promotion vs active and the benefits are quite different, where you receive a pay check based off your rank every pay check others with the exception of full time technician only get that on a pro-rated pay for the two days a month they have drill and for the annual two weeks of training or deployments. Additionally Guard/Reserv do not get BAS/BAH/COLA/ etc the costs and incentives you receive significantly out weight the promotion standards. The only personnel with thin the Guard/Reserves that have those incentives are recruiters.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 19 at 2016 10:26 AM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 19 Jan 2016 10:26:31 -0500

It's a doubled-edged sword. After years of active duty seeing how hard Airmen worked on the WAPS program for promotion, I found the in-unit promotions both refreshing (in terms of lower-echelon leaders putting their best personnel in the right jobs) and a little nerve-racking, seeing such young Reservist TSgts wanting to have social lives with their AD SrA friends who are the same ages. And as mentioned above, for every really young TSgt I've seen out there (usually performing on par with the rank), I've seen older SrA and SSgts waiting for their dream positions to open up in a unit they love.

I worked with Army units for the first 5 years of my career (Army doesn't have weather personnel, they use Air Force) and I noticed the same sort of thing at the Active Component Army company level: company commanders (Captains) could promote/demote in-unit (up to E-7 I believe). At first I didn't think that was fair, compared to our AD WAPS program, but over time I noticed how much more effective it was for the leaders to put their own best people in the right jobs, and remove the wrong people.

For what it's worth, beyond about E-7 (and the officer ranks), it seemed to me like the promotion process got more complicated. Yes there are still position-vacancy promotions out there, but if you aren't able to take advantage of those, the time-in-grade promotions flex with the active force manning. So we see our board dates shift around accordingly.

I can't say that it's "fair" or not, but AD and Reserves are different enough that different promotion programs are completely warranted.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2016 7:25 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 20 Jan 2016 19:25:08 -0500

I don't really care how fast they make rank. The issue i have is that the last few years of war we have put them in charge of AD units (Air Force) while deployed. Also they fill 3 & 5 level UTC's with MSgt/SMSgt's which makes a really uncomfortable deployment for everyone involved, at least in my career field. Too many Chiefs, not enough Indians, so to speak. Stop deploying reservist, utilize them at home station to fill the voids!!!!!!! As i think the process was originally intended.

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 21 at 2016 10:09 AM

SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 21 Jan 2016 10:09:39 -0500

There are specific TIG/TIS gates that one must meet to promote. The ANG (AFRC as far as I know) does not test, but you still need all the normal EPME requirements such as ALS for SSgt, NCOA for TSgt, SNCOA for SMSgt. SrA to SSgt is 18 months TIG + 5 level + ALS, SSgt to TSgt is 2 yrs TIG + NCOA, TSgt to MSgt is 2 yrs TIG, MSgt to SMSgt is 2 yrs TIG + SNCOA (+ CCAF in many units). For your question about it being fair, I would offer a similar opinion as most everyone else that has responded. I think it is good to be aware of how other services/commands function, but in the end only "worry" about your own career and the things that are in your control.

Response by MSgt Jim Wolverton made Jan 21 at 2016 2:41 PM

MSgt Jim Wolverton — Thu, 21 Jan 2016 14:41:23 -0500

CAN.OF.WORMS

I never had any issue with most of these guys because I was only in the same chain once and after that, I had no use for most of those guys. Glad I retired before full on TFI takes place, different cultures and mindsets, regardless of what anyone tries to tell me.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2016 1:50 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 26 Jan 2016 13:50:13 -0500

I am currently a USAFR E-5 and my flight/platoon makes us take the E-7 PME before we can get promoted to E-6. Their reasoning is that we should perform and lead as if we were one grade ahead. I've taken the 2 part test a few times, hopefully I will pass it soon.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2016 12:18 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Jan 2016 12:18:01 -0500

Honestly, it works both ways. I sat in a position of Tech Sergeant for over five years before being promoted to Master Sergeant. On active duty, I might've been promoted a lot earlier. There were no Master positions available, so I was stuck at Tech Sergeant. Also, as a Master promotee, I had to go through a board. The board contained E-7's & E-8's firing bullets (questions in rapid succession) trying to rattle me.
My point? Yes, promotions to E-4 and E-5 MAY occur a bit more rapidly in the guard/reserves. To progress further YOU BETTER be promotable! Meaning, you should be adept at mentoring, discipline and motivating. Try doing this with reservists instead of the "captive audience" you have on active duty.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2016 11:19 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 23:19:49 -0500

Well, it depends on slots. I made E5 in 97. Promotion rate on active duty in 118X1 was 18 percent. I joined reserve in 99, promoted to tech in 2000. I stayed a tech for 8 years. I made E7 by doing the PEP program. I had to compete against everyone in the reserve to go one stripe higher. All in reserve, not just my career field. Made E7 in 2008. 8 years later, still an E7. Can only go above one stripe, so unless someone leaves or dies or I cross train and hope I go to a Unit that isnt full and has an E7 slot for me, I will stay an E7. So it can work both ways, you could get to E7, but your career can end there, not because your not deserving, but it's about slots. Oh, and I was told by my commander who doesn't have a masters degree, that if I did get an E7 slot and tried to PEP again to E8 I would need to have my Masters to be competitive, B.S. wouldn't be enough. Fair? Life isn't fair, but there are different routes, up to the individual to make their goals happen.

Response by SSgt Alan Cook made Feb 8 at 2016 5:27 PM

SSgt Alan Cook — Mon, 08 Feb 2016 17:27:26 -0500

no, active duty works everyday, weekend worriers should have to put in the same amount of time for promotions , nor reason to be passed over when you are the one doing the job every day

Response by 1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 9 at 2016 2:22 PM

1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Feb 2016 14:22:35 -0500

I can tell you that most reservists have had previous experience on the active duty side and "crossed over" to be in the Reaerve. Yes, there is a difference, but I would venture to say it is not that much off. We still have to do PME and
Meet the requirements for the next level. It does not guarantee an automatic slot for promotion based on a vacancy. Leadership (commander, chief, shirt and supervisor) need to be engaged and know when that member is ready! We still are in line with our active duty counterparts when it comes to
F2F testing, PME, CDC's etc. I will say though, I don't like separation and divide, but rather "TotalForce!" We deploy and compete for many things as others do.

Response by 1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 9 at 2016 2:24 PM

1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Feb 2016 14:24:52 -0500

Lastly, sorry... Focus on your career path and goals! Don't worry about what or who is getting what and when. Get a mentor or two that will give you proper guidance and knows what you have to accomplish in order to be successful. Get your AFSC quails done, get your PME done, get your CCAF, get your college education done, etc. Tracking?

Response by SSgt Bob Lamary made Feb 10 at 2016 1:40 PM

SSgt Bob Lamary — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 13:40:15 -0500

It never bothered me, especially since as an E-5 (Staff Sgt) in the PA National Guard my experience was that I knew my work as well as or better than most of the E-6's (Tech Sgt's) I worked with who had more time in service than me and had earned their rank because of their time in service. At the same time there were some who like me earned their rank just because of their time in the Guard seemed to be moved up just because they were there.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2016 12:13 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Feb 2016 12:13:03 -0500

Life is not fair. We all made our professional and life choices. It took me almost 18 years to make MSgt in the Traditional side. Life goes on and so will the hating.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 24 at 2016 6:23 PM

CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 24 Feb 2016 18:23:02 -0500

Just wanted to share a bit on this. As you know, the Guard and Reserve both have separate promotion rules. It is POSSIBLE to promote sooner than active duty, but not guaranteed. Reservists can get "stuck" in positions. Since most Reserve or Guard members will never leave their unit of assignment unlike Active Duty, they are limited on how far and how fast they can move up the ranks. Many Reservists will "homestead" their entire career and not allow for promotion potential for others. For instance, If I stay at Grissom ARB, IN my entire career, I will never have the opportunity to make CMSgt, because we do not have a Chief slot in my Career Field (and I'm not retraining). Promotion in the Reserve is based on Skill-Level, TIS, TIG, Sat Service, PME, Commander recommendation, and the slot you are in. I've seen many individuals retire as SSgt's and TSgt's because their simply weren't enough MSgt or above positions to move them into. So in conclusion, they may get promoted sooner, but they may be the same rank for 15 years. Your friend is a bit off-track when they say they promote based on the shop needing to fill a certain slot. While that is part of it, the person still has to meet all of the qualifications.

Response by MSgt Michael Bischoff made Mar 3 at 2016 12:48 PM

MSgt Michael Bischoff — Thu, 03 Mar 2016 12:48:18 -0500

That promotion does not make sense you still have to wait time in grade / service and skill level to get promoted

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2016 1:04 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Mar 2016 13:04:52 -0500

Don't know where you are, but back when I was a LT/CPT the AD TIG was less than that for the guard/reserves. ie AD LTs and CPTs were getting promoted faster than guard/reserves. There are Active Duty guys I went to OBC with who were CPTs when I was a 1LT and MAJ when I was a CPT, and I have been promoted "first look" at every rank.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 7 at 2016 8:16 AM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 08:16:17 -0400

Is it fair don't know. And there were some, this has been a few years ago, who would go from active duty to reserves, get promoted up and then come back on active duty.

Response by SSgt Ron Dexter made Apr 16 at 2017 10:05 AM

SSgt Ron Dexter — Sun, 16 Apr 2017 10:05:46 -0400

I stopped reading after "Is it fair"

Response by Lt Col Jim Bemis made Oct 19 at 2017 12:31 PM

Lt Col Jim Bemis — Thu, 19 Oct 2017 12:31:40 -0400

Yes, the Reserves have promotion by position vacancy, as well as time-in-grade eligible merit promotions. Promotion by position vacancy is rarer for officers than enlisted. I do not remember all of the rules for it, but it would seem unlikely that she jumped 3 grades in one shot, but I suppose it is possible. And, for the National Guard, it is almost all done by position vacancy, which can stunt a person's career track if the upper grade holders hang around for a long time, so it does not always work out advantageously.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2019 2:25 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 29 May 2019 14:25:49 -0400

Not sure about fair. However in the Army Reserve, only 2.4% of E7 will get promoted to E8 in the AGR program. It doesn't have to do with "fairness" it has to do with positions available. Period.
As far as the "not testing", I can not comment. We have the same requirements for promotion in the Army Reserve and Active Duty.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 16 at 2019 7:29 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Jul 2019 19:29:22 -0400

I made Staff Sergeant (E6) as an MDAY Army Guardsman in September of 2007, just over 10 years TIS and 4 years TIG and I had to reclass to do it.

Got an AGR position in August of 2008. Due to low density MOS billets and putting the unit first, guess who just made SFC in January after reclassing AGAIN despite having 11 years of sterling NCOER’s?

It’s feast or famine. And it tends to go in cycles. Bottom line for the NG you can sit on top of that list for years (as I did) and wait for a vacancy

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 18 at 2019 5:35 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Jul 2019 17:35:42 -0400

As an Army Reserve CW3, I definitely do NOT get promoted more quickly than my active duty counterparts. For CW2 to CW3 and for CW3 to CW4, I have to wait six years while my ARNG counterparts only wait five, and active duty only wait four. I have no clue what you're referencing.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2019 6:20 PM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 21 Sep 2019 18:20:34 -0400

Well its the opposite for Officers. We put on the next grade a few years later than our AD counterparts. I am fine with that, TBH. You might think this is a good deal for a reservist in the E ranks to promote. It can actually be detrimental to their careers if they promote too fast and are not ready for the responsibility. In the reserves we have a saying that you can promote yourself out of a job.

I can attest to an E-8 who I supervised that this happened to. After a few years of being a reservist I supervised an E-8 who had rapidly crawled up the rank ladder in his previous career. I can attest that he was not suited for the role at all. In fact I was floored on the amount of supervision he required for mundane things involving his own career. I was used to SNCO's who for one wanted to have minimal officer involvement into their world. SNCO's being very aggressive in their own careers I was shocked on how much attention I had to give to this individual. He was not a bad guy, but he was very ill-prepared for his rank and the requirements to be there. In fact the amount of attention that he required was on the level that in my previous life I would have to give to younger Airman basically out of high school.

When I say you can promote yourself out of a job, that damn near happened to him. We both lost our slots to IMA funding cuts. We both had to find new homes. I found one in my current unit. He had a tough time and was trying to find an E-8 or E-9 billet. No one wanted to accept him as he did not have a strong record. I had to write very weak EPR's on him, not because I wanted to. It was because no matter creative I tried to be to give him a decent write up, it was probably painfully obvious to any outsider looking in that he did not have any meaningful or impactful bullet statements. He had not done what was normally required at that level. It was clearly obvious he was not someone another unit wanted to fill an SNCO slot. I tried to help him find a job and we were at a stand still. At the end of the day he eventually got a job, but had to be waived to fill a lower ranking billet that they had issues filling. They put in E-8 into an E-6 slot. Basically he was now working two levels below his pay grade. This pretty much was the career ender. There will be no way short of nuclear war that he will ever be a Chief.

I don't fault him, I fault his prior raters who put him in a position to fail. His prior leadership failed to properly guide him on to have a successful NCO career. I learned a few years later that perhaps promoting him was intentional as a means to get him out of their unit. That can never be confirmed, but as soon as he made E-8 he had to find a another position as his previous unit had no E-8 slots and were not going to let him into an E-9 billet.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2019 2:46 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 22 Sep 2019 02:46:20 -0400

I absolutely hate it. When you have someone join the reserves or NG and they make it all the way up to SFC and then go active duty, they're a hot mess and have no idea what they are doing.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 11 at 2020 6:58 PM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 11 Apr 2020 18:58:45 -0400

Nothing is fair, its the opposite for commissioned officers. My counterparts who stayed on active duty who commissioned around the same time are already O5's. I just saw on my FB feed a guy who I went to field training with in 2000 just got selected for O6. I am still an O4 that will be just now heading to the O5 board this summer, with no guarantee to get it.

As for reservist enlisted getting promoted too early, it can be their career killer if they are not ready to be in the grade. I supervised a guy who fast tracked to E8 too fast and he was not ready and his position went away and he had to get a waiver to work in an E6 billet. While it may seem like a good deal, they could be hosed at the end of the day.