Posted on Jan 21, 2021
GySgt Kenneth Pepper
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My family made the choice for my son to attend community college for the first 2 years and pay out of pocket. It hurt, but the plan was for him to get through his associates without accumulating any debt. Now there is a push to forgive all college debt. What about those of us who did not rely on loans but used their own money to get an education?

Update" Student loan forgiveness not my idea. Blame the AOC crowd.
Posted in these groups: Graduation_cap EducationDanger-political-correctness-300x300 Political Correctness
Edited 1 mo ago
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Responses: 49
SFC Intelligence Analyst
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What about you? Good grief "me, me, me" is definitely the older generations. How about we fix the college loan system? How about we fix the system so that tuition isn't insanely expensive? There's any number of things to do.
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SGT Robert Johnson
SGT Robert Johnson
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SSG Robert Perrotto Most student debt has been created because colleges receive the loan money students take out. There is no repercussion to the school if the student defaults.
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SGT Robert Johnson
SGT Robert Johnson
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SFC (Join to see) Colleges will only continue to increase tuition because there funding is subsidized on the back of the student. The college loses no money if the student defaults.
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SSG Bill McCoy
SSG Bill McCoy
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SFC (Join to see) - Sorry to say that comparing the issue of college loans to slavery is ... well, it's WAY out there!
" College tuition in likely to be the same thing, it is unfair but it is necessary unfairness in order to reign in the tuition rates."
Should it be reigned in by the government paying off a person's college loans? I could see some DISCOUNT, or tax credit; but ONLY if that degree led to a job in the same field as a person's major. My daughter took out extra college loans, but used it to go on college subsidized trips to Italy - the first was a legitimate part of her course work. The second and third trips however were strictly to do it again. Why should the TAXPAYER be addled with that misuse, OR for a degree that is ultimately worthless?
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GySgt Kenneth Pepper
GySgt Kenneth Pepper
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SFC (Join to see) You seem exceedingly confident someone who seems unable to comprehend complex questions. You did not respond with anything remotely helpful or insightful. This is obviously a systemic issue. But your reply offers no possible solution for anyone.
In short, if you have nothing intelligent to add, shut the fuck up and keep drawing with your crayons. Someone will bring your dinner soon.
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SSG Environmental Specialist
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Are they going to go back and reimburse me for my college loans that I and the Army paid off???? No one put a gun to their head and made them sign the loan agreement and many abused the loans getting way more than their books and tuition.
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SGT Robert Johnson
SGT Robert Johnson
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Cpl Vic Burk and all the while the school has no repercussion. The school doesn't lose money if the loans are defaulted.
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CW2 Michael Bodnar
CW2 Michael Bodnar
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Cpl Vic Burk - The whole student loan program needs to be reformed. Take the government out of managing this program and it will get better.
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SSG Environmental Specialist
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CW2 Michael Bodnar - you are correct and it is being abused by the schools and some students, the system needs to be fixed, forgiving loans will not fix the problem only buy votes.
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SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
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I paid for My own education except for the help I got from the VA but i earned that. My Brother and Sister both paid for their own education also themselves and both worked to earn the money to do so. Not a one of the three of us took a dime from our parents to pay for own own education and none of us owed anyone any money after We graduated not had any of us ever taken a loan. The system now involves parents to pay and I did help for two of My kids both Who also had worked and still had to take out loans. The cost as charged by the colleges has got out of control.
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SGM G3 Sergeant Major
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As far as "how is this fair to you" because you did the right thing and avoided oppressive student loans while others didn't, it's not fair or unfair to you, doesn't impact you.

Is it fair to you as a taxpayer, if $1.5 trillion in gov't student loans gets forgiven? No, it is not fair.

But that doesn't fix the problem, it just forgives current loans, many of which were in default anyway.

Fixing the problem means figuring out how the US dollar had an average inflation rate of 2.25% per year between 1990 and today, producing a cumulative price increase of 99.29%, while public university in-state tuition increased 1,100% over the same time frame, while increasing overall enrollment (revenue), decreasing total faculty and reducing most faculty positions to lower cost adjunct.
Then fix that so that tuition no longer increases 10 times faster than inflation so we don't keep adding to the student load problem.
And that fix is will obviously still involve your taxes, but it's going to hurt less over the long wrong with a fixed system vs lump sum payments to forgive public loan debt.
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Maj John Bell
Maj John Bell
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SPC (Join to see) - Life is nothing but risks. It is not my responsibility to eliminate or assume risks from some unknown person's economic decisions. It is not my responsibility to correct circumstances in their life that are not their fault. It is not my responsibility to become their basic support system because they don't have one, or the one they have is inadequate. We don't start on level playing fields. Most times, in life we have to settle for less than our perfect dream or we have to expend extraordinary effort to get it.


AND, if I have to assume the risks, you should give up something. Let's start with the choice of major. If it isn't a STEM degree (Science, Technology, Engineering, or Mathematics) I ain't paying.


When I have both the means and the desire to give someone a hand up, my charity shouldn't be co-opted by the government. Government typically makes bad choices and doesn't offer help efficiently. Example: College tuition. Guaranteed loans increased demand and did nothing to increase supply. What functional adult doesn't know about the law of supply and demand? Government didn't fix the tuition problem. Government made it far worse.


I don't know if you have children, for sake of this discussion let's assume you do. Will you work your ass off and make sacrifices so that you can make sure that your children have nothing more than every other child. And how will you feel when the next door neighbor, who hasn't worked their ass off, who hasn't made sacrifices comes to you via the government and says "All that extra work and sacrifice, well we're going to divide the fruits of your labor and your sacrifice up, and give equal portions to your neighbor's kids? Oh and they already committed their kid to Harvard, yours went to Podunk U. So that's all even OK?"


Finally, completing a college degree is no guarantee of earning a living wage. Not having a college education does not preclude earning a living wage. After four years in the construction trades, most journeymen earn more than people just leaving college with their first bachelors degree. Some of those who earn their journeyman's certificates use them full time to get their college degree part-time.


Some people don't depend on college to earn a living wage. I earn a solid upper middle class income from different things that ALL started as hobbies. None of my income has anything to do with my college degree, (an engineering degree). I educated myself on those hobbies for free in the public library back before the internet.


See a need, and figure out how to fill it. You may have to start filling it for free. But if you're any good, soon enough people will be willing to pay you.
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SGT Robert Johnson
SGT Robert Johnson
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Colleges would have to become socialized under the government to cap tuition. Harvard would have a problem with that.
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Maj John Bell
Maj John Bell
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SGT Robert Johnson - We have socialized college education, all of the land grant colleges. Michigan, for example, has 16 publicly owned colleges or universities (example University of Michigan @Ann Arbor) that offer bachelors degrees and higher; plus 27publicly owned community colleges that offer associates degrees and technical certificates.

But that is the same exact number of publicly owned institutions of higher learning that existed before the government stuck its camel nose into student loans. And those institutions have not significantly increased the size of their admissions in the recent past. They haven't increased enough to match the population growth, let alone to match the increase in demand due to more easily obtained college loans. And I'll bet every other state is in a similar condition. That puts more demand into the private institutions and allows them to cater to the most financially elite.

Columbia University in NY has the highest out of state tuition, $58,920 in the US for 2020. Throw in books, fees, room and board; and depending on course of study you are closer to $70k than $60K.

If one wants to decrease costs, the answer is NEVER give the people more money or easier credit [the preferred course in the halls of congress]. The answer is to increase supply. Add two more land grant, publicly owned and accredited colleges/universities with student bodies of 15,000-50,000 each and watch what happens to the cost of college tuition.
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SFC Casey O'Mally
SFC Casey O'Mally
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SPC (Join to see) - My parents raised three children on lower middle class income. Not a single one of their children got a dime from our parents for college. Not even a place to stay while in school! My brother DID live with my parents during summer break, when the dorms were closed - but he paid them rent to do so. All three children have a college degree.

My brother was a traditional student, got his degree at the age of 23, and promptly moved into education as a HS teacher. He will be retiring in a few years. He graduated with modest but manageable debt due to paying for tuition entirely through scholarships and his part time job. The debt was from room, board, and books. When he graduated college, he got a $11,000 personal loan - from his brother in the Army who had been saving up - to put a down payment on his first house in the district where he had been hired. He paid me pack within 4 years - and also had his loans paid off in 4 years.

My sister when to the local community college for a year, entirely on scholarship, then moved to be with the man she loved (and subsequently married). She did the typical "housewife" role for the next 12 years until she divorced her husband. At that point she found a job that could support her and her 3 girls, and worked her tail off for 8 years (without a degree). At that point, she went back to college - while working full time to support her three children who still lived with her. She graduated at the age of 45 with zero debt through scholarships, grants, and her income from her job. She continues to be employed in a decently-paying job, and she is not using her degree in any way. The "risk" of her degree did NOT pan out.

I went to college straight out of high school and failed out after 1 year. I went to a private college and amassed a whole LOTTA debt. About 2 years later, I joined the Army (and did NOT get loan repayment). It took me three years, but I paid off that debt (while also saving up $11,000). After 20 years in the Army, I retired, and began using the GI Bill (and then vocational rehabilitation, once it was approved) to complete my Bachelor's degree. I am currently working on my Master's degree (also with voc rehab). I am currently employed as a Pizza Delivery Driver - not exactly a "college degree" job. My risk hasn't panned out (so far). Not counting the first year of failed college, I will have paid about $1000 for my Master's degree - and the overwhelming majority of that is replacing my computer after I accidentally bleached the one that voc rehab bought me (long story involving a broken washer, a laundromat, and a desire to be productive while clothes were washing). The rest of the money was things like paper, pencils, and binders.

Three completely separate paths to a degree. All done without the luxury of parents paying or bailing them out. Two even involve the actuality of risks not paying out, but being (eventually) overcome, anyway, through perseverance. Very few folks in this country are completely unable to follow one of those three paths (or similar). Maybe they can't get the scholarships to be a traditional student. But they can join the military and get the GI Bill. Maybe they cannot physically join the military, but they can work their butt off in a non-degree job until they rise through the ranks to be able to save enough money to start going to college part time without debt.

I understand that tuition today is radically higher than when my brother went to college in the 90s. But it ain't that much more expensive than when my sister went 6 years ago. Please don't tell me that the government has to bail out student loans - especially not ALL student loans - because some students didn't have "a basic support system" or because "sometimes risks don't pan out."
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