Posted on Jul 28, 2016
Is it Fraternization if the individuals involved are not dating, but are blood relatives?
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I've seen a lot of discussion regarding dating between different ranks with respect to fraternization policies. What about family members? SSG Robert Burns posted about an AIT soldier whose PSG threatened action because she hung out with her MAJ father.....
So what would you think about (for example), then SGT Walker hanging out with SPC Braddock or SPC Ramos, his cousins?
So what would you think about (for example), then SGT Walker hanging out with SPC Braddock or SPC Ramos, his cousins?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 70
I will give you a sticky example of an instance where it became an issue in one of my units. I had a CPL in my S3 shop whose mother was a full bird Colonel in the Medical BDE. She was about 27, unmarried and she had a room in the barracks but she pretty much still lived with her mother. Every time we got ready to go to the field she would show up with a no field duty profile or an emergency leave for the death of a loved one with Red Cross notification. It took me about six months to figure out that something was fishy with this CPL never going to the field. I took my suspicions to my Major who was aware her mother was a Colonel while I was unaware. I told the Major I was going to build a case for dereliction of duty and malingering on this CPL. She advised me to say nothing to anyone and keep it on the quiet. So our next deployment she shows up again with a Red Cross emergency leave request for the death of her grandmother. I had been keeping every copy of every profile and leave request she had. When I looked through her records she had already taken an emergency leave on the death of that grandmother 18 months earlier. I made copies of her whole packet and took them home with me. The next day I brought the evidence to my Major and she asked to keep and look at the file. Two days later I asked my Major how to proceed and she said either she had lost the folder or someone had stole it off her desk. What a coincidence huh. I told my major I thought I could find a copy at the company 1SGs office. Which I did and gave that to my Major asking her to secure it better. The next day it also disappeared from her desk. At that point I was very upset and told my Major I wanted to use the BN CDR's open door policy to address this problem. She got pissed and made vague threats. That just about sent me through the roof so I went straight to my BN SGMs office and aired the whole thing with first him, then the BN CDR. The next Monday I had Field Grade Art 15 charges on the CPL for lying, forging documents and a few other things. I suspect The CPL's mother and my Major were friends and my Major was trying to protect the CPL. I guess it all turned out well in the end. I would say this was more undue officer influence rather than fraternization, but it still had bad outcome and God only knows how long that CPL had been pulling the wool over other peoples eyes before I showed up.
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SPC David C. Rudolph
Dereliction of duty, Forgery and perpetrating a fraud would get any of us in hot water. Missing a movement due to a repeated death in the family would throw red flags up. Why wasn't both Majors as well as the Cpl not brought up on charges? Any other soldier would have to deploy, Lord knows I did. My oldest brother a command Smg, told me he was forbidden for helping me in any way. We stuck by that till he retired. I never asked him for anything. ( family gatherings were kinda tight). But we did it. What makes them so special.
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SP5 John Perry
Sgt Patrick McAllister - CPL may have contracted bed bugs from always being in the barracks.
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A1C Andrew Silbaugh
Personally I think fraternization, because of a blood relationship, like Parrent/Child, is fine as long as you're not trying baby your kid. Let them see the worst of the world, this is the military, not a day care. You are not doing your kid any favors by shielding them from, what you are ordering their bunk mates to do, in fact all that you have done is made sure that your kid is the only battle buddy who isn't trusted because they aren't tested.
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SGM Joel Cook
SPC David C. Rudolph - well I asked my CSM what his thoughts were on my Major contributing to the CPL's dereliction. He said show him the proof or never mention it again or the whole thing would blow up in my face. I immediately put myself on request for overseas transfer. I am about 75% sure my Major was protecting that CPL.
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If one is not in chain of command and cannot influence the others military career. Then I say leave it alone. It is when ones relative is too close to the COC that things go wrong.
Was in the same company as a guy whose uncle was the SMA when I was stationed at Drum. They would have dinner or whatever after duty hours and meet off post. Soldier was treated just like everyone else. Most didn't even know it was his uncle.
Was in the same company as a guy whose uncle was the SMA when I was stationed at Drum. They would have dinner or whatever after duty hours and meet off post. Soldier was treated just like everyone else. Most didn't even know it was his uncle.
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PO3 Nathaniel Barksdale
If it blood family i dont see a problem. This person is not in your chain of command so i dont see a problem. Now when theres an influence of weather or not you get out of thing and not being treated as any other service members then yes its a problem
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SSG Keith Cashion
PO3 Nathaniel Barksdale - Agreed, but there is nothing indicating that the Soldier is being treated any different then any other Soldier, as it should be.
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PO3 Nathaniel Barksdale
SSG Keith Cashion - exactly but i was using that as an example of when it would be wrong
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Capt Seid Waddell
John Huttman, anybody of any rank, related or not, that helps someone evade their duties is committing the same crime as the one evading their duty, in my view.
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John Huttman
Captain I agree with you 110%. Though, if someone does use their rank and their family status to help a relative, that too is fraternization And they are just as guilty as the person getting out of duty
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John Huttman
Capt Seid Waddell - Again, I agree. Unless the higher ranking family member uses their rank to help their relative. But as far as general fraternization, absolutely not they should be able to go home to family on leave.
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