Is it grounds for an EO complaint if an NCO questions my faith and tells me I need to shave my beard?

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 29 Apr 2020 20:21:08 -0400

I just got to my new duty station about 1 month ago, I haven’t really met a lot of people from my unit do to covid-19 but today I met my platoon sgt for the second time , the first time we met I was in civilians over the weekend and he decided to stop by the barracks to check up on me, so today we were called down to work for 100% accountability because someone got a DUI out of the range they told us to stay in, after the formation my platoon sgt walked up to me and started yelling at me telling me I need to shave my beard off. I told him that I was Muslim and I have a Memo from the brigade Chaplin from my old duty station that I can have it and I explained to him that it wasn’t longer than 2 inches, I tried giving him the memo and he said he didn’t want to see it and he started laughing and shaking his head at me and started questioning me as if I was lying he asked “how long have you been Muslim?” And I told him next month will make a year since I converted to Islam after the 3rd question I told him I’m not answering no more questions and walked away from him and he got upset and said “ you will not have a beard and wear the same uniform as me” as I was walking off . So about 2 hours later I got a text from the person that is my team leader that the platoon sgt wants me to write an 1 page essay about disrespecting an NCO and a copy of my memo, I replied with how did I disrespect him? And my team leader replied with “by walking away from NCO while he was talking to you” am I in the wrong and what do I do about it?

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2020 8:24 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 29 Apr 2020 20:24:41 -0400

Thats definently an EO situation. However, a memo from your old brigade chaplain will not allow you to keep your beard. Your current bde commander is the only one that can authorize a religious exemption.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2020 8:35 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 29 Apr 2020 20:35:33 -0400

In effect yes. AR 600-20 chapter 6-2: 6–2. Equal opportunity policy
a. The U.S. Army will provide EO and fair treatment for military personnel and Family members without regard to race, color, gender, religion, national origin, and provide an environment free of unlawful discrimination and offensive behavior. This policy—
(1) Applies both on and off post, during duty and non-duty hours.
(2) Applies to working, living, and recreational environments (including both on and off-post housing).
(3) Additionally, in some circumstances, the Equal Employment Opportunity Complaint system in AR 690–600 may provide guidance.
b. Soldiers will not be accessed, classified, trained, assigned, promoted, or otherwise managed on the basis of race,
color, religion, gender, or national origin.

So now what? I would suggest that you contact your local Equal Opportunity Leader / Adviser. In the Company Common Area the Commander’s policy on EO/EEO should be posted. It should list who your EO Team is, and their contact information.

I would consider filing an Informal Complaint. This will allow things to handled at the lowest level, but still offers you the chance to file a Formal Complaint. Do this quickly as you have an assignment from your PSG... right or wrong, complete the assignment professionally, and file your complaint.

Response by MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P made Apr 29 at 2020 8:44 PM

MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P — Wed, 29 Apr 2020 20:44:05 -0400

Perspective from an old AF guy....
I'm not knowledgeable of all things Army but I believe your current Commander is the only one who can approve waivers for such things. I know the rules and policies are changing but don't know the specifics. Secondly, it's NEVER a good idea to "just walk off" when being addressed by a higher ranking member. It usually doesn't end well for you no matter the circumstances. Speaking as a SNCO myself, I'd have been more than a bit irritated had you done that when I was speaking. I don't necessarily approve of how your PSG handled the situation either but that doesn't excuse your poor behavior. I'd suggest going through the Chain and attempting to set up a conversation with your PSG to clear the air. Might save you some grief later on down the road. Also, use your Chain to speak with your Commander to see if an updated waiver can/should be granted.

Response by SFC Jeremy Boyd made Apr 29 at 2020 9:38 PM

SFC Jeremy Boyd — Wed, 29 Apr 2020 21:38:00 -0400

It does sound to me like a legitimate EO violation on the part of your PSG, which needs to be addressed, and also sounds like blatant disrespect toward a Senior NCO on your part when you told him you wouldn't answer anymore questions and walked away. The two wrongs dont make a right. I would complete the assignment he gave you, apologize for the disrespect you showed him, and then report the incident to your BN or BDE EOR or EOA. I know you must have been frustrated by his response, but never let your military bearing slide. If he has misguided opinions about those of Islamic faith in his mind already, acting in a disrespectful manner will only reinforce those negative stereotypes in his mind. Be the bigger person, the better Soldier, and let him make his own bed to lie in. At the end of the day, he will either have to adhere to the Army's EO policy and treat you fairly, or be subject to ramifications.

Response by SFC Robert Wheeler made Apr 29 at 2020 9:45 PM

SFC Robert Wheeler — Wed, 29 Apr 2020 21:45:05 -0400

I'm not going to cache it as "wrong" but rather as tactically unwise. I always just stood there and let the NCO in question blow his own flame out. I did nothing to give him or her an excuse to write me up. However, I did my best to set karma in motion while getting the documentation I needed. Once the documentation is obtained, it puts you in the driver's seat. You can share a copy of the documentation with your PSG and see if his head explodes. If it does, you might suggest to the Platoon Sergeant that the two you visit his boss and you know the rest. Follow the chain of command until they hang you with it or you get somebody's attention.

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Apr 29 at 2020 10:08 PM

SFC Ralph E Kelley — Wed, 29 Apr 2020 22:08:58 -0400

Go to the Chaplain first if you really want to solve this problem. Request to the Chaplain to have an intervention with him with you and your full company chain of command.
It is a religious issue and that's the specialty Army Chaplain Corps.
NOTE: See 1SG Private RallyPoint Member 's comment.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Apr 29 at 2020 10:35 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Wed, 29 Apr 2020 22:35:33 -0400

You are both wrong. If you have been approved to wear a beard for religious reasons then you have a right to have a beard. You were wrong in walking away from him.

Response by SFC Aubrey Campbell made Apr 29 at 2020 11:15 PM

SFC Aubrey Campbell — Wed, 29 Apr 2020 23:15:33 -0400

I believe you are in a bit of trouble, but survivable. Back out now...write that essay, and repent for disrespecting an NCO. Back in my day as an E-7 platoon sergeant in the 3rd infantry division, I would have sent you to pre-trial confinement in Mannheim, Germany. But to your point, I had Muslim soldier in my platoon and was aware of their religious practice. I would not have been so ignorant nor intolerant to your concern, but would have sent you to the proper channels to get the proper paperwork. Also, going to a new unit is ALWAYS Stressful! So, I hope this gets solved quickly and you enjoy your tour. The Army was and is good to me!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2020 11:27 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 29 Apr 2020 23:27:15 -0400

First of all, your memo means jack shit. Do you have an approved ETP from your current brigade commander? If not, I would highly recommend shaving until you do, which is going to take some time. While you wait, if you don’t want to receive UCMJ for failing to obey a lawful order, I would suggest compliance.

Response by SPC Erich Guenther made Apr 30 at 2020 1:55 AM

SPC Erich Guenther — Thu, 30 Apr 2020 01:55:25 -0400

Can't speak to the EO complaint or his approach but you should never walk away from an NCO when they are talking to you and yes that is considered disrespectful. You should have learned that in Basic. Part of being in the Army is learning to deal with all types of people and not losing your cool. When I was in I had NCO's say all sorts of things to me which were well in the unprofessional category but even so I stood there and listened to try and understand what was trying to be communicated. Also, your fortunate in that some of my NCO's could not do basic math or read very well. They are long gone out of today's Army I expect......lucky for you, that you don't have to argue with NCO's over simple math.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Apr 30 at 2020 5:40 AM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Thu, 30 Apr 2020 05:40:34 -0400

You are wrong. Unless he was doing something illegal or harming you, you stand at parade rest and listen. When he is done ranting, you take your issue to the COC. If he is wrong he will be corrected, just as you will be.

His ignorance to your faith is at the core of the problem. Him asking you questions is his right as your leader. Get an appointment for your current chaplain, and be prepared for some sort of discipline or corrective action. If he called you back and you kept walking you are subject to UCMJ.

Be respectful, seek guidance of your chaplain, in the meantime, should he ask to speak to you do the right thing, listen, answer and you may be surprised. In any case do not walk away.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 30 at 2020 8:33 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Apr 2020 08:33:34 -0400

As a former EOR:
Yes they can require you to shave. You need to have an exemption MEMO from a Brigade Commander not a Chaplin. (A Chaplin has no command authority) The Chaplin makes the recommendation to the Commander, the Commander decides weather to sign it. You are will need to do this at every duty station, or when the Commanders switch out, and supply the old memos as historical documentation.

As a Retired NCO
While I may not have handled it the way you PSG did, I would have asked to see the memo. (Similar to asking someone for a shaving profile). His questions while they may have frustrated you but were not illegal or immoral. If you had walked away from me while I was talking to you an RBI would have been the least of your worries. Do the RBI explain why you got frustrated, Apologize and ask to see the commander and 1SG to plead your case or get clarification

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 30 at 2020 9:16 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Apr 2020 09:16:31 -0400

As a former Platoon Sergeant, I can tell you, if you had walked away while I was talking to you, you would be walking to a Platoon Leaders office and to the 1st Sergeant and Commander. Here is what I am hearing from you:
1. Your Platoon Sergeant may have never had encountered anyone with your situation and handled it poorly - it happens and he was immature and wrong, based on what you said.
2. You escalated it with the disrespectful replies and walking away - 2 wrongs don't make it right.
Your "wrong" didn't help your case for the future. Your PTL and PSG see you with an attitude problem - you will NEVER be able to fix that.
Your question, "am I in the wrong"? your answer - Yes. "what can I do about it"? - Work your ass-off and not say anything for a loooong time.
Is it grounds for an EEO complaint? - possibly merits one, but I say give your echelon a chance to fix first.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 30 at 2020 9:46 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Apr 2020 09:46:58 -0400

You were both wrong. You need an ETP from your Chain of Command (BDE CDR). You walking away from your Platoon Sergeant was so so so so wrong. As for the Platoon Sergeant....he was wrong to question your religious beliefs (and should have known better), but he was right in that the old memo from your old chaplain doesn't matter. I think you both need to have a sit down with a mediator and apologize to one another.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 30 at 2020 10:30 AM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Apr 2020 10:30:29 -0400

Memo from former BDE Chaplain has no power, even at the old unit. But it can be used to back up your claim to practicing the faith- hold onto it for use in applying for your ETP from current BDE CDR.
Don't walk away from an NCO again. If it's that type of situation stand at parade rest and answer the questions.
PSG will be corrected as you utilize the CoC for your issue. There are channels for this. You are far from the first one.
Write your essay as instructed. You disrespected a Senior NCO - whether or not he/she was right, you were still in the wrong as well. Write it, and write it well. Reading your question you could use a refreshing on grammar. It may seem trivial but it can really change the way people view you through writing. And it will help with your ETP memo and your essay to PSG, as well as any future writing.

Response by SSG Corletta Madison made Apr 30 at 2020 12:02 PM

SSG Corletta Madison — Thu, 30 Apr 2020 12:02:34 -0400

Well, there's two situations at hand within your question. There's the disrespect and the EO complaint, and the answer to both are simple ones. Yes, you do have a EO EO situation at hand, but being new to your duty station your Team/Squad Leader should have informed you that your memorandum needs to be updated by the current command; this way you're in compliance with your BN/BDE SOP not just Army regulations. You could file an informal or formal complaint (your choice) that way the insensitivity to your religious beliefs is noted. However, the nature of disrespect is also prevalent; because you walked away while your supervisor was in the middle of speaking to you about a situation, if handled another way you wouldn't have had any corrective training to do, it could have easily become UCMJ actions to such a show of disrespect to a Senior Noncommissioned Officer. I suggest you start reading and understanding Army regulations along with your Company, Battalion and Brigade SOP's. Knowledge is power, it will help you not to get caught up in such situations. This incident truly could have been avoided by both parties.

Response by SGT Michael Koukaras made Apr 30 at 2020 4:30 PM

SGT Michael Koukaras — Thu, 30 Apr 2020 16:30:33 -0400

Yes, you are definitely in the wrong. All the steps you took to get your original waiver you should've repeated at your new duty station. As for the disrespecting an NCO, yup you did that too. Could he have handled it better: absolutely but you never, ever just walk away. Let him speak. Even if in your head your in your happy place.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 1 at 2020 4:51 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 May 2020 16:51:09 -0400

If you have a memorandum, that's fine. After the initial episode with your Platoon Sergeant, you can always present it to your 1SG, Commander or whoever else asks for it. I was a Platoon Sergeant, so I've been there, done that. I'm not saying that your Platoon Sergeant was right in what he said, but you are by no means absolved of any blame in this matter. I was a fair and patient Platoon Sergeant and always took care of my Soldiers. I always gave them the benefit of the doubt, listened to their side of the story and listened to what they had to say. But to walk away from me while I was speaking to them? Not even based on anything having to do with the beard or memorandum, I can promise you, you would have lost some personal time, money and rank for disrespecting me in that manner...especially in public. Now, what do you do about it? You take the disciplinary action like the Soldier you are, then you ensure that your Chain of Command knows exactly where you stand regarding your religious rights. I wish you nothing but the best and hope that you resolve this situation quickly and go back to excelling as a Soldier.

Response by Sgt Jude Eschete made May 2 at 2020 2:31 AM

Sgt Jude Eschete — Sat, 02 May 2020 02:31:22 -0400

While you may have a right to keep the beard, everything that you did surrounding the issue was wrong.

A couple of things, moving to a new duty station may require a new meme/letter. When a NCO asks you a question, I don't care what you think the situation is, you answer until he gets tired and dismisses you. If you were one of my Marines while I was platoon sergeant, I wouldn't have questioned the beard thing without further guidance, but if you gave me lip and walked off before I dismissed you, I would have probably written up a negative counseling and would definitely remember it come time for proficiency and conduct marks on top of the EMI for disrespect.

This is a situation where you pick your battles. There is a way to do things, even if you are in the right. By mouthing off and walking off, you are essentially ruining your case for any sort of EO complaint. Which it sounds like you are trying to use to retaliate for being forced to write a paper. Is facial hair worth the drama and reputation you are going to create for yourself?

Response by TSgt David Holman made May 2 at 2020 11:45 PM

TSgt David Holman — Sat, 02 May 2020 23:45:27 -0400

Is this an EO thing, not really clear cut and i am not knowledgeable enough about the current changes to regulations to really speak to it. Were you wrong for walking away... absolutely. It has been said before in this thread, but it bears repeating, regardless of who is right and who is wrong in a military conversation, the junior ranking member should never "walk away" from a "discussion" with an NCO without being dismissed, either directly or implicitly. The problem is it comes down to "two wrongs don't make a right". By walking away while still being addressed, you violated the UCMJ, regardless of your intention.
The good thing is, being new to a unit, this should be easily overcome, but you haven't set the right optics out of the gate. Doing this, especially if it was in view of other members of the unit, shows that you have a respect problem, even if you don't. Unfortunately, in the military perception is reality. This is one of those times where I would take a bit of the proverbial sandwich, and press on with dignity. That doesn't mean not addressing the first issue, but do it from a position of respect, and by the book. When you turn in your essay, ask to speak with the NCO and try to clear the air.
As for the beard thing, make an appointment, get the right documents, and press on. If the same NCO has an issue once you have the proper waivers, then you have a leg to stand on if you decide to run it up the pole.

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made May 3 at 2020 12:11 AM

SSgt Christophe Murphy — Sun, 03 May 2020 00:11:56 -0400

So this is a mixed bag. Exemptions are approved by the Command Leadership. A memo from the Chaplain at your last Command will not be sufficient. You need to understand that you will be questioned for having a beard while in uniform. Regardless if you have permission or not you will draw attention and will draw questions. It doesn’t sound like you have current approval from your current Command. Your Plt Sgt isn’t in the wrong for getting to the bottom in this.

You are in the wrong for walking away. Ass chewings are part of military life. You don’t get to bail out on them.

Just talk to your current Chaplain and start the process.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 13 at 2020 11:51 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 13 May 2020 23:51:35 -0400

Yes you were disrespectful to your psg. However he should have listened and then inquired from higher up. As far as EO it is your responsibility to find the regulations for your religious preferences and try to alleviate issues and your ducks in a row. You should also look at things from his perspective and he is doing his job keeping X amount of soldiers you should be looking at working at the next lvl of your career and don’t cry about everything “be the solution ,not the problem “ carry on and be safe

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 26 at 2020 11:35 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 26 May 2020 11:35:50 -0400

First off you were both in the wrong on how you both handled the situation. Second, you and your chain need to sit down and get everything thing cleared up with cool heads and resolve the situation at hand. Third, as for EO, that could open a can of worms. Whether you have a case or not, that would be up to your EO reps.

Response by SP5 Gerald Santomassimo made Jun 22 at 2020 1:59 PM

SP5 Gerald Santomassimo — Mon, 22 Jun 2020 13:59:01 -0400

What?!?!? "Walked away" from a superior? W.T.F. - Period.
Somebody PLEASE tell me that the Army doesn't put up with crap like this. PLEASE.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2020 10:43 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 25 Jun 2020 10:43:28 -0400

Coming from a former member of the E-4 Mafia, you were wrong to walk away and you may have to deal with the consequences of those actions. What was allowed by your former commander may not be allowed by this new one. The note should cover you at least till you can meet with the Chaplain who makes those kind of decisions. Next time however I strongly suggest, stand there, take the heat and then find out what you need to do. Never walk away from a senior when they are addressing you and you are already at parade rest.

Response by SPC Franklin McKown made Jul 17 at 2020 5:09 PM

SPC Franklin McKown — Fri, 17 Jul 2020 17:09:37 -0400

GAS mask?
PRETTY much it.
We love ya ,don't do the funky when they yell GAS,GAS,GAS!

Response by SGT Donna Millar made Jul 18 at 2020 2:18 PM

SGT Donna Millar — Sat, 18 Jul 2020 14:18:02 -0400

Well I am old school speaking here and not as high ranking as some who have given you advice. That being said, I did supervise a squad of 2 SPC, 2 PFC and 1 PV2. If I ever got in their face a “yelled” at them, which I most likely wasn’t doing but was perceived as such, it would have been for a good reason. If they had “just walked away”, I would have written them up SO fast their head would spin! And you better believe there would be a counseling statement in your permanent record. Do not disrespect your NCOs. And yes you disrespected him by walking away. As for exemptions, you need a new one at every duty station. It is up to your command as to whether or not you get one. You couldn’t wear a beard when I was in because you could not get a proper seal on your protective mask with facial hair.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 18 at 2020 5:07 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 18 Jul 2020 17:07:52 -0400

SPC, this is how I see it. First things first. You’re new to the unit during a pandemic. You likely didn’t get to go through normal in-processing and integration routines. Had that happened, likely someone already could have set you straight and already got your ETP working through your current chain of command. That said, there are junior NCOs who have failed you, if you’re living in the barracks. Some SGT or SSG, or at least a CQ NCO or Staff Duty NCO making rounds should have already seen the beard and at least asked you about it. At that point, you could have produced the memo you have and then they could have set you on the path to getting an updated memo. Your PSG was definitely in the right for asking about the beard because Army regulation still generally forbids it—even in civilian attire, and even off duty. Now, your PSG crossed the line when he got belligerent with you. At that point, you should not have walked away and refused to answer questions. Rather, you could have asked to go see the 1SG on the open door policy. The 1SG could have then squared you away and gotten the ball rolling on the memo you need. In addition, he could have then corrected your PSG for the belligerence. Bottom line here: you can still go see EO about your PSG’s behavior. That is your right. But, you’re still probably looking at some disciplinary action for your behavior and you’re still going to need an ETP from your current chain of command.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 18 at 2020 8:01 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 18 Jul 2020 20:01:25 -0400

https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/pdf/web/ARN14026_AD2018-19_Web_Final.pdf This link is to Army Directive 2018-19 (Approval, Disapproval, and Elevation of Requests for Religious Accommodation). Read it and speak to your S1 and request the checklist for religious accommodation requests. If the Commander accepts at his level, no issue, if not, then this packet goes up to higher and is evaluated for approval. Please note that the chaplains letter is part of the packet and they may require one from the current chaplain but hopefully, the one you have from the prior chaplain should suffice. Be flexible and do what you can to get the packet through as soon as possible. Once the approval comes through, I’m not 100% sure if they PERM a document in your record, with the exception approval or if they provide a memo which you’ll have on your person which is kind of like walking with a profile but either way, you’ll be covered. Remain respectful and understand that you’ll be approached by many with the question. Good luck!

ARN14026_AD2018-19_Web_Final.pdf

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Response by SGT John Lozynsky made Jul 18 at 2020 10:01 PM

SGT John Lozynsky — Sat, 18 Jul 2020 22:01:48 -0400

You are wrong.

Response by SGT John Lozynsky made Jul 18 at 2020 10:02 PM

SGT John Lozynsky — Sat, 18 Jul 2020 22:02:10 -0400

You are wrong.

Response by Sgt Edward Allen made Jul 19 at 2020 7:05 AM

Sgt Edward Allen — Sun, 19 Jul 2020 07:05:48 -0400

Reverse the situation. If you were addressing a person of lower rank and they turned their back on you, wouldn't you feel that they had disrespected you? Also, not sure about now, but 20 years ago, you had to get a waiver at your new new duty station.

Example, although the USMC had an alternate weight standard based on body fat, I was granted a waiver to be 20lbs over my limit but had the get a waiver again when I transferred to my next duty station.

I'll agree the NCO was in erreabout one thing.

You never punish or dress down a troop in public. You only lose the respect and trust of your troops that way. Praise in public, chastise in private.

In the end, you are BOTH wrong.

Response by SPC Earl Semler made Jul 19 at 2020 5:09 PM

SPC Earl Semler — Sun, 19 Jul 2020 17:09:27 -0400

The way you describe the event puts you in the wrong. You walked away from your PLT SGT while he was talking to you and didn't return when ordered to. The other thing is he is not a police officer and you don't have the right to refuse to answer his questions. He was trying to understand you

If you felt after he was finished you could go to your Plt Leader and bring up the issue with them. They will more then likely no more about the religious regulations. Remember this is a new command where they may not have encountered this issue before.

Response by A1C Daniel Drake made Jul 19 at 2020 7:37 PM

A1C Daniel Drake — Sun, 19 Jul 2020 19:37:18 -0400

You lost your temper and stepped outside of your duties as a soldier by walking away. If he's not physically harming you or stepping far outside the purview of his command you should just keep your cool and use your chain of command. If your chain fails and you're in the right, then keep climbing. But remember., If you climb the chain of command, always dot your is and cross your ts.

Response by CMSgt James Nolan made Jul 19 at 2020 9:03 PM

CMSgt James Nolan — Sun, 19 Jul 2020 21:03:59 -0400

You’re both in the wrong.
In your case-a note from a Chaplain at Base X isn’t worth the paper it’s written on at Base Y.
Additionally, you simply don’t walk away because you don’t like the conversation. Not how it works.
From his end, he gives you the brief. You don’t like it. You can advise him that you will seek the appropriate accommodations on Base Y and advise him when done. In the mean time, you shave. It’s not his job to determine how long you’ve been Muslim, or how devout you are. It is his job to look out for you and to ensure you are doing right.
The military is a system of rules that we all must play within. Like em or hate em, the rules are the rules.

Response by Stephen Bracken made Jul 19 at 2020 10:10 PM

Stephen Bracken — Sun, 19 Jul 2020 22:10:09 -0400

Why are we allowing Muslims into our military?

Response by SP5 Wilbert Jennings made Jul 19 at 2020 11:13 PM

SP5 Wilbert Jennings — Sun, 19 Jul 2020 23:13:41 -0400

I posted but must not have been to the liking of the monitor so no comment

Response by SGT Nickolas Ortiz made Jul 20 at 2020 12:41 AM

SGT Nickolas Ortiz — Mon, 20 Jul 2020 00:41:37 -0400

Why not just let everyone have a beard? In fact, why not let everyone have long hair? While we're at it, just forget the uniform... forget all training... heck, forget the UCMJ!!

This has gotten out of hand... NO, you shouldn't have a beard... the reason is your PPE (gas mask) will not seal properly if you need it. There has to be a grooming standard, of just forget about any standard. Attention to detail... that's what the grooming standards install. Your being "muslim" does NOT mandate facial hair... I have plenty of male friends that practice Islam and they wear beards as traditional, not as religious mandate. If you don't agree with the Military Grooming Standards, then you don't have to follow them... you can always get out.

The appeasement culture is getting out of hand...

Response by 1SG Alan Boggs made Jul 20 at 2020 7:45 AM

1SG Alan Boggs — Mon, 20 Jul 2020 07:45:47 -0400

We dont know the entire story here, in my life's experience i have found there are three sides to every story. My side, your side and somewhere in between lies the truth. Not that either person is a lier, its that most people see things from their own perspective and few will admit to the parts of the story that do not fit their narrative.
Bottom line from where i am standing is you admit walking away from a NCO in your chain of command,. Your PSG no less. Swallow your pride and write the essay, you're getting off easy. Follow the procedure to obtain a religious belief exception to policy. Start concentrating on earning the respect of your leaders and peers alike, its never too late for that.
All of what i have just said aside, your side of the story portrays the PSG as needing some counseling from a peer or senior on his demeanor and communication skills.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 20 at 2020 9:49 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Jul 2020 09:49:22 -0400

You disrespected your PSG by walking away from him when he called you back. I would provide a copy of your old memo and get a new memo from the chaplain if that’s where you need to go and submit both with your essay. He does have a right to ask questions in order to understand. However, the situation could have been handled differently instead of him yelling at you.

Response by SSgt Paul Millard made Jul 20 at 2020 12:22 PM

SSgt Paul Millard — Mon, 20 Jul 2020 12:22:10 -0400

This is pretty simple. No matter what, there are regulations that govern your appearance in the military, different branches have slightly modified regs and various waivers that cover very specific situations. Back in my time in AF- we had "No shave" for health reasons but not for religious purposes.
Your NCO may have lacked tack in his approach but the chain of command is what it is and you are entitled to push things up the chain at your peril. Military is not about special individual treatment, on the contrary all services are considered Uniformed and not because we wear a uniform but because we adhere to a set of uniform set of regulations, code of conduct and justice system. If you feel your personal needs require more preferential treatment than other regulations you might want to revisit you career choice. I'm not saying you religious beliefs aren't important, but the military works on the sabbath and at sunrise and sundown, is responsible for killing humans in time of conflict all of which conflict with components of most major religions. As servicemen we don't get to pick and choose are regulation set that fits into our religious or social/ alignment .

NCO's, especially younger inexperienced might not have the insight or background to handle all situations the way your mother or father would but you can not walk away or ignore a legally given order. If you feel the order is illegal follow the chain of command but in this situation without a standing waiver from the regulating post or base authority you will be wrong and face consequences for disobeying your NCO.

Step up, apologize to the NCO and move on and get a legal waiver but get it right with team lead and NCO. The old rule of keep the issue at the lowest level in the chain will benefit you greatly

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 20 at 2020 2:17 PM

CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Jul 2020 14:17:59 -0400

Your NCO is wrong...seem to be an abundance of that in the Army. I would seek advise. I would say maybe the IG....but be prepared for reprisal...that they claim does not exist. Good luck solider. Wish I was your First Sergeant.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 20 at 2020 3:27 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Jul 2020 15:27:28 -0400

Yes, you were worng for walking away from him. You stand at parade rest until he is finished. Im stationed at Ft. Carson and we have O6 in our commad sign the memo not a Chaplin. Im nit sure what the guidance is for your post but use the 1SG's open door policy and ask him what is the guidance for the post you are on and he sould point you in the right direction. If not you can always go to post IG and find out the guidance for updating you memo.

Response by CH (MAJ) Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 20 at 2020 4:26 PM

CH (MAJ) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Jul 2020 16:26:56 -0400

A religious accommodation for a beard has to come from the first general officer (GCMA) in the chain of Command. There is a requirement for a Chaplain Memo to be included with the Religious Accommodation request packet. The Chaplain memo is not an approval, but is just a recommendation to the Command. The RA request packet (with Chaplain memo) goes to Company and Battalion Cdr, then to Brigade Commander, then through the Pentagon for review and recommendation to the General officer. The Approval from General will come back down through channels to your local commander. If all you have is a memo from the Chaplain, then you are NOT approved to wear a beard. The process is not difficult, but can take several months.

Response by COL Robert Davies made Jul 20 at 2020 5:12 PM

COL Robert Davies — Mon, 20 Jul 2020 17:12:44 -0400

You are half right but more importantly mostly wrong. Religious accommodations are only good at your current command and at the discretion of your current commander. It is also mission driven, if you are expected to wear MOP gear you may lose the accommodation.
Your SGT may have been a butt, but you should not have walked away! "SGT I will go see the Chaplain and get the required documents."

Response by PO3 Michael Wiedenhoeft-Wilder made Jul 20 at 2020 8:39 PM

PO3 Michael Wiedenhoeft-Wilder — Mon, 20 Jul 2020 20:39:49 -0400

If any upper ranked person addresses you, you must listen and follow their orders. If you believe those orderes to be inappropriate it’s then you move it up the chain of command. The only person who can disobey orders is the president and he can be over ridden by the congress and joint chiefs of staff if his orders violate the U.S. constitution.

Response by SFC James Cameron made Jul 20 at 2020 11:18 PM

SFC James Cameron — Mon, 20 Jul 2020 23:18:46 -0400

The next positions I will name, explain, have demonstrated, and which you will conduct practical work on, are the rest positions while at the halt...

CSM ZaGara and 1SG Bradshaw hit the nail squarely on the head; and by your own admission, you disrespected a Noncommissioned Officer while he was performing his duties as your Platoon Sergeant.

You need to read and understand the regulatory guidance before you pick your battles.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 21 at 2020 3:23 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Jul 2020 15:23:00 -0400

Definitely an EO complaint. Write his essay as directed. They will be writing VOLUMES trying to explain all this. Be sure to get a list of witnesses.

Response by SSG David Kaelin made Jul 21 at 2020 11:27 PM

SSG David Kaelin — Tue, 21 Jul 2020 23:27:40 -0400

I have to ask.

What happened to the Military?

This is a clear case of insubordination.

Period.

Response by SSG David Kaelin made Jul 22 at 2020 12:24 AM

SSG David Kaelin — Wed, 22 Jul 2020 00:24:58 -0400

This whole thread is disgusting.

This kid was wrong.

Many people are bending over backwards to pretend to be "inclusive".

God help us.

The Muslims whom I know would laugh at this kid.

Response by CPL Jarod Depastene made Jul 22 at 2020 12:55 PM

CPL Jarod Depastene — Wed, 22 Jul 2020 12:55:12 -0400

Everything seemed fine on your end all the way up until you turned your back on someone who outranks you and said "I'm not answering any more questions". That's the wrong answer, young brother.
You have a letter from someone who outranks him stating you're authorized your facial hair. You should have stood there, taken your licks, and gone up the chain the right way.

(Note the V next to my name if you reply... don't call me by my rank, cuz it ain't mine anymore :p )

Response by CW2 Michael Metzler Sr. made Jul 23 at 2020 2:19 AM

CW2 Michael Metzler Sr. — Thu, 23 Jul 2020 02:19:03 -0400

Yes, you are wrong! He is your superior and should be treated with the respect that his rank holds. On the other hand, he should NOT have said those things to you, as he was questioning your integrity without even checking to see if what you said was true.

His superior officer will deal with him personally. You may want to think about what you did and whether or not you want someone to disrespect you, if you were in the same situation.

Your religious beliefs are not his business, except to know what rules and regulations apply to your situation.

Remember, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

I'm a former Marine (7 yrs.) and now a retired veteran U.S Army Aviation Maintenance Officer/Helicopter Test Pilot, so I am familiar with both sides of the coin. Personally, I would never have treated you that way, but that's just me.

Response by Capt Mark Miller made Jul 24 at 2020 4:11 AM

Capt Mark Miller — Fri, 24 Jul 2020 04:11:57 -0400

Walking away was a mistake. But that NCO is a Bigot who may not have had a good time in Iraq or Afghanistan. You don't start questioning a person's religion like that in public. Run it up the chain and get an EEOC complaint form. I may not understand someone's religion but we all took an oath to defend the Bill of Rights.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 24 at 2020 5:05 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Jul 2020 17:05:29 -0400

Here is my $.02
1- Ask to utilize an open door policy to speak to your CO, remember to inform your Chain (namely your Squad Leader) of your intention.
2- Your NCO crossed the respect line by disrespecting your belief. Laughing and deciding on religious privileges is a red flag. Instead, as a leader, he is obligated to provide you, in a respectful manner, the steps that you need to follow in order to accommodate you. Fact is, he should facilitate and make your inprocessing as smooth as possible. We all have responsibility making sure our junior Soldiers and their families are taken care of before we ask you to start working.
3- You lack big time in the discipline department!!! Yes, you disrespected your NCO by walking off. You should remain in a position of Parade Rest, justify your situation, and ask to know whether the old memo can be valid, which is not.

To me, this issue could easily be handled at the lowest level. Your 1SG is trained enough to solve it. Fact is, once you request to speak to the CO about it, the 1SG can mediate and resolve it at hen/her end.
Goodluck, never forget to discipline yourself and abide by the Army Values.

Response by SPC Richard Zacke made Jul 24 at 2020 6:19 PM

SPC Richard Zacke — Fri, 24 Jul 2020 18:19:59 -0400

SGT Private RallyPoint Member Anytime you are relocating and you have say a profile for running, make it clear to your platoon sgt and others that you have this profile in your record and will it be honored here or do you need to have it reissued by your new post physician. Clear the way in advance if possible. But you were wrong to walk away, stand there and take it, clear it up later. Good luck troop!

Response by Maj Charles Porter made Jul 25 at 2020 3:00 AM

Maj Charles Porter — Sat, 25 Jul 2020 03:00:42 -0400

When you are being addressed by a senior you may not leave until dismissed. Then, following your Chain of Command advise the appropriate Staff Non-commissioned Officer. Perhaps the Company First Sergeant who will handle this in a military manor. Then will tell you to SUCK IT UP! The First Sergeant will also instruct the young NCO on Army policy and the subtleties of professional leadership. When the First Sergeant has completed this task, all things will be right with the world.
Read CSM Darieus ZaGara's Comment he did a much better job of explaining it.

Response by SSG Eric Blue made Jul 25 at 2020 4:04 PM

SSG Eric Blue — Sat, 25 Jul 2020 16:04:52 -0400

I understand your frustration. YOU WERE WRONG for walking away from PLT SGT before the conversation ended, so the essay is warranted. But CSM ZaGara said it right when he said that your issue needs to go up the chain of command. I also get that your previous BDE chaplain gave you the memo, but that was from your old unit. See if you can get an updated memo from your current BDE chaplain. Again, I understand your frustration as I myself have wanted to tear open certain leaders' (NCOs and officers alike) chests with my bare hands. But military bearing and discipline are still a must in spite of your feelings about the situation. Just make sure that whatever you do that you are in the right when you do it.

Response by Sgt Steve Meyer made Jul 25 at 2020 4:33 PM

Sgt Steve Meyer — Sat, 25 Jul 2020 16:33:17 -0400

Should have just showed him your stress card there hard charger...

Response by 1SG Alexis Ruiz made Jul 25 at 2020 5:02 PM

1SG Alexis Ruiz — Sat, 25 Jul 2020 17:02:00 -0400

First of all chaplins do not give religious accommodation, they help you draft your request and the GCM response. If and when you PCS then you have to go through the process again. The exception to this is if you have your religious accommodation from Department of the Army.
Until that point, talk to your EOA and Chaplain together would be better. Talk to your COC and start this process.

Response by SGT Dave Hamilton made Jul 26 at 2020 11:17 AM

SGT Dave Hamilton — Sun, 26 Jul 2020 11:17:59 -0400

Yes you are dead wrong regardless if you are allowed to have a beard under softened liberal weak New policy. you can not Walk away from an NCO cause you don’t like what he has to say. You made your point with disclosing the memo. It appears he takes issue with the religion which is his right too. Just not liking your beard or your religion doesn’t qualify as discrimination. I happen to agree the military is losing discipline by allowing such stupid personal actions. Your beard is a lack of discipline and just shows you are not actually serving anything beyond your personal desires. If you love this country you’d shave it and serve. if you’re a liberal crybaby who thinks you feelings matter you should quit now. In my day you’d have been dead from corrective PT after you walked away without being dismissed. Grow some balls and suck it up and drive on and show your allegiance to your god and this country by being all that you can be or be a soft pussy who gets others killed cause you think your opinions and feelings matter. We all had NCO’s that were dicks, get over his personal views and do your job. Maybe he’ll see your a good Muslim and not a sham pos looking to get over on something. Your work ethic would prove your devotion but so far I see a weak, emotional response to your feelings and disrespect of your NCO not a valid complaint.

Response by SMSgt Bob Wilson made Jul 26 at 2020 12:21 PM

SMSgt Bob Wilson — Sun, 26 Jul 2020 12:21:44 -0400

Maybe; however, there are many variables your question has not address. Religious worship vs military dress and appearance, the ground is muddy. Your letter from your last Post has no validity at your new Post; however,[ and there is always a "however"] start with the Senior Chaplain at your new Post to get a "new wavier". Now, write a one page essay--REALLY!! Does your Platoon Sgt realize the US Constitution has an article on "self incrimination" [if it actually occurred]. SUGGESTION: Reduce you losses and apply for a transfer or PCS.

Response by SSG William Bruno made Jul 27 at 2020 2:54 PM

SSG William Bruno — Mon, 27 Jul 2020 14:54:14 -0400

Follow the command directive to write the essay, then ask to see your platoon leader.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 27 at 2020 4:23 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Jul 2020 16:23:01 -0400

Quit crying about it and do what is required. Old chaplain is not the same as the new chaplain for the exemption. Some MOS's will not allow it.

Response by SP5 Wilbert Jennings made Aug 3 at 2020 10:52 AM

SP5 Wilbert Jennings — Mon, 03 Aug 2020 10:52:31 -0400

I returned from Vietnam via medevac to Japan with a full beard due to severe fungus infection on face . I was given a no shave profile but was still stopped every chance someone had . I showed my profile and was still at times run up the flag pole. It goes back to training of the NCO and others in charge as to what is allowed and isn't. But still maintain the discipline you are taught to submit to the chain of command. I remind you this was during Vietnam not today so I am not current as to what and what isn't.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 3 at 2020 4:48 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 03 Aug 2020 16:48:12 -0400

There are so many comments on here that are absolutely unbecoming of the NCO corps. You were wrong to walk away. Hopefully your PSG is a reasonable leader and can talk it over with you to get the misunderstanding sorted out. Second, your PSG was wrong in the way he approached the situation. He should have given you the resources you need to get a new ETP from your current command.

Response by CPL Nathan Hollingsworth made Aug 16 at 2020 8:52 PM

CPL Nathan Hollingsworth — Sun, 16 Aug 2020 20:52:44 -0400

You’re wrong ! You address a NCO until their done .. you may respectfully decreed your position on a question, but walking away is disrespectful without being dismissed .

Response by MSG David C. made Aug 17 at 2020 9:30 PM

MSG David C. — Mon, 17 Aug 2020 21:30:18 -0400

When you are being questioned by a superior, your at parade rest or attention depending on who you are speaking with and you don’t leave until dismissed. After being dismissed you have formal channels that you can report the incident too.

Response by SPC Jordan Brown made Aug 18 at 2020 1:15 PM

SPC Jordan Brown — Tue, 18 Aug 2020 13:15:06 -0400

You were in the wrong for walking away from him while he was talking to you, he is an NCO, and even if he is wrong, you have to respect him at all times.
Stand at parade rest, listen to him, then go to the Chaplin after the fact.

Response by MAJ Mike Yeksavich made Aug 18 at 2020 4:43 PM

MAJ Mike Yeksavich — Tue, 18 Aug 2020 16:43:35 -0400

When I left the Army in 1978 the same questions kept coming up to include with Seiiks having to carry a dagger (even though small) for their faith. It will never end. Answer the NCO's questions and if you are within regs all will be o.k. However, it is not wise to determine what questions you will answer from a superior.

Response by SrA Travis Sanchez made Aug 18 at 2020 7:25 PM

SrA Travis Sanchez — Tue, 18 Aug 2020 19:25:57 -0400

I can only relate to the Air Force. There are regulations that state what your dress and appearance are supposed to be. If your Sargent quoted the regulations, then he is in the right.

However, I understand that is against the DOD policy to discriminate or harass anyone based on Sex, race, gender, and or religion. In this aspect, your platoon Sgt is in the wrong on more levels than one.

I think a question you need to find out is whether or not your waiver is legal
At your new duty based due to a new chain of command. I would consult your base chaplain and go through those channels.

Your caught in a rock and hand place as to the current situation. It sounds as if you just got there and haven’t had a chance to get other issues sorted out.

Definitely get a hold of EO and report the platoon Sgr based on the questions her was asking. In reality, no one has the right to question your faith in a mocking manner. They can ask about aspects of your religion and faith if they are curious and respectful, but only if your comfortable asking those questions.

Response by MSgt Eric Roseberry made Aug 19 at 2020 1:00 PM

MSgt Eric Roseberry — Wed, 19 Aug 2020 13:00:42 -0400

Yes you were in the wrong. Now, requiring you to write an essay would be a form of non-judicial punishment and is also inappropriate. As would the statements regarding your religion.
I suggest you seek assistance through your chain of command. EO will be appropriate if this fails. The higher in the chain you go the more likely your will find someone who takes their oath to protect the Constitution seriously. In the meantime write your essay and take your oath seriously as well. Let the chain decide if the order is lawful.

Response by SSgt Mike Finch made Aug 19 at 2020 6:13 PM

SSgt Mike Finch — Wed, 19 Aug 2020 18:13:45 -0400

I don't know how some of you guys serve in today's PC military. As I recall, the only shaving waiver was for PFB. It was temporary and whiskers could be no more than 1/4".

If you can't or won't conform to military standards, why the F did you join??

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 20 at 2020 1:34 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Aug 2020 01:34:13 -0400

Yes you were wrong and two wrongs make a mess. Always be the professional and when it all comes out in the end you will not only be exonerated but you usually earn respect from your peers. When being corrected (chewed out) stand there, parade rest, and reply only with yes or no Sergeant. That alon irritates some because it shows they cannot get under your skin. In a situation like this you have multiple choices but keeping it in house is "ALWAYS" best. While reporting outside is a right, it can often have unintended consequences and drag others into it and cause resentment from peers and leaders alike. But if your Team Leader, Platoon Leader, 1SG, or Commander don't make it right then go to the Imam, or Chaplin if none available, before EO or Congressman. But always make sure you stayed professional or it opens a dorr for them to skate out of it.

Response by PO1 Dee Lee made Aug 21 at 2020 1:44 PM

PO1 Dee Lee — Fri, 21 Aug 2020 13:44:42 -0400

You were dead wrong period!

Response by PO2 Lawrence Janiec made Aug 31 at 2020 7:04 AM

PO2 Lawrence Janiec — Mon, 31 Aug 2020 07:04:08 -0400

I am not saying the following things as accusations, since I do not know you personally. However, I know the type of person who will adhere to parts of religion that benefit them and ignore the parts they don't like. I generally (but not always) refer to this type of person as person who hides behind their religion.

Do you wake up before sunrise every morning for the first designated Muslim prayer time? These days it's at about 4:25 am (0425 for you active duty types) but can be as early as about 3:30 am. Do you further pray 5 times a day, 365.25 days a year (for about 10 minutes each time) in accordance with your religious views? During Ramadan, do you extend your prayer time to about an hour each time, so that for (most of April and part of May) you're praying essentially 5 hours of your waking day? If you are skipping out on prayer time at all, then you can shave.

During Ramadan, do you fast all day and skip meals, even if you're out in the field? If your'e eating during Ramadan, then you can shave.

Do you partake in alcohol? Even a sip of a beer or wine or anything? If you drink alcohol, then you can shave.

Do you use any pain killers heavier than Motrin or Tylenol? If you are injured in a fire fight and take a bullet and the medic wants to give you morphine for your pain, do you refuse because of your religion and tell them you'll take Motrin instead? If you accept pain killers, then you can shave.

Does Islam teach you to be disrespectful to your elders (seniors, in this case)? When a senior is saying something you don't like, does Islam teach you that you can just disrespect them and walk away?

You might be wondering how I know stuff like this, when I'm not a Muslim. I live in a Muslim country, so I am around it every day. I have to endure prayer time 5 times a day 365.25 days a year with a loudspeaker on the roof of my house. I consider it an intrusion and the people who are sending out prayer in Arabic (loud enough that with all the doors and windows closed and loud music on (inside my room), I can still hear it clearly, even if I don't understand it) are essentially forcing their religion on me. However, I am living in their country, not my own, and I don't try to change it or get them to do things differently to accommodate me. Just like you are in the US military, and you should be adhering to those rules if you want to be in that society. I also know that when I am in excruciating pain, pharmacies in this country simply do not have ANY pain killers heavier than Tylenol (Panadol in this part of the world), so if that doesn't help with the pain, then I must endure it.

On a final note about the Muslims in this country I live in, almost all of the males shave every day. Ironically enough, I grow a beard regularly, but I'm usually the only one I ever see with a beard. I honestly can't even remember the last time I saw a local with a full beard, and I've been living here over 2 years now. Oh, and I know a few US Marines who are Muslim (one is currently on active duty) and they both shave regularly.

I honestly hope that your platoon sergeant finds this post and takes notice of ALL of your religious practices. If you never drink, refuse pain killers, fast during all of Ramadan, and pray as often as Muslim law dictates, then enjoy your beard. But if you are ignoring the parts of your religion that you consider a chore or an inconvenience, then I hope that they never let you grow a beard as long as you remain on active duty. To be clear, I sincerely mean all of those last two statements, not just the second one. I give a lot of respect to people who adhere to their religion when they adhere to ALL of it and not just the parts that benefit them.

Response by SMSgt Billy Cesarano made Sep 14 at 2020 3:29 PM

SMSgt Billy Cesarano — Mon, 14 Sep 2020 15:29:16 -0400

Well, maybe you just don't want to shave is my guess. You enlisted with no beard, then you went to your duty station, then you made a complaint. I'd start your discharge papers if it was me.

Response by SSG Brian G. made Sep 21 at 2020 12:37 AM

SSG Brian G. — Mon, 21 Sep 2020 00:37:53 -0400

First off, you were wrong completely. That NCO outranks you. Full stop. You disrespected him the moment that you walked off from him without him telling you that you were dismissed or could go. You should have learned basic customs and courtesy in BCT and need a refresher course obviously. Second? The memo that your former chaplain wrote means nothing. Zip, nada, nil. There are regulations that define what specifically is allowed for religions that is outside of normal uniform and appearance.

He has the right to ask you questions. You are not a civilian. You do not get to decide when you are done and walk off. You should have stood at parade rest or if given the order at ease until he dismissed you. Then when done, take your issue to your CoC and make them aware and seek their guidance. They will seek out the regulations and make any necessary adjustments to you and/or him.

Response by SSG Omar Ruiz-Canales made Sep 27 at 2020 12:48 AM

SSG Omar Ruiz-Canales — Sun, 27 Sep 2020 00:48:09 -0400

Sadly you don't have the option or choice to walk away from a superiors rant... you staying there ,that's called military discipline and it is your responsibility to stand there until dismissed... every Soldier gets the same treatment regardless of whether you feel your leader is in the wrong. You do have the choice to take it through your COC. You assumed that your leader completely knows all the Ins and Outs of your religion, that there is something that you can teach him with the questions he asks you, so you stay there until he is satisfied you have answered his questions. Should he completely disregard your faith after you explained it to him, that's when you take it higher.

Response by CSM John Mead made Oct 25 at 2020 6:31 PM

CSM John Mead — Sun, 25 Oct 2020 18:31:44 -0400

Yes, you were wrong.

Response by SFC Charles Dennis made Nov 8 at 2020 1:46 PM

SFC Charles Dennis — Sun, 08 Nov 2020 13:46:59 -0500

Why was this not addressed when you in-processed to the unit and met the battalion chaplain?
You need to read AR 670-1, AR 600-20 and Army Directive 2018-19 Dated 8NOV18 and signed by the HON Mark Ester for further guidance on religious accomodations.
It may not be a bad idea to go seek legal aid from JAG since you could receive punishment for disrespect to a Non-commissioned officer.
Lastly, please study your chain of command and check where the chaplain falls in.