Is it inappropriate for a SSG to put a SGT in the front leaning rest?

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 07 Jun 2020 20:39:11 -0400

If it is then please provide specific reason

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2020 8:40 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 07 Jun 2020 20:40:59 -0400

No it’s not so long as he is doing it away from the junior soldiers NCO’S should deal with NCO’S in private so that you don’t take away there power base in front of there soldiers there is a time and a place

Response by SFC(P) John McLaughlin made Jun 7 at 2020 8:45 PM

SFC(P) John McLaughlin — Sun, 07 Jun 2020 20:45:42 -0400

Anytime I dropped a soldier for push-ups, I dropped with that soldier and matched them push-up for push-up. Yes I have done that to SGTs as well. What I never did was do this in front of others. Always took them aside, such as between tanks in the motor pool. Never did it out of anger, but used it as a tool for learning.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2020 8:51 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 07 Jun 2020 20:51:02 -0400

I always ensure I correct my NCOs away from their soldiers, you never want to do anything that will erode that leaders power base. I guess if would be similar to 1SG ripping you a new one in front of your platoon.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2020 8:56 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 07 Jun 2020 20:56:03 -0400

It is perfectly acceptable if said SGT needs minor, non-judicial corrective action. The authority of the NCO is contained in AR 600-20, and also referred to in FM 7-22.7

Anecdotally, I had a squad member, Junior Enlisted, who was reminded to bring their ID to an appointment. As this was a standing order to do so, it was universally understood what the expectation was. When that Soldier did not have their ID Card, I have both the Soldier and the Team Leader, push-ups to do while I verbally counseled them for the failure to have the ID, and the failure of the Team Leader to conduct the required Precombat Checks.

Response by SSG Jimmy Cernich made Jun 7 at 2020 9:34 PM

SSG Jimmy Cernich — Sun, 07 Jun 2020 21:34:18 -0400

I don't think it's appropriate.If the NCO needs corrective action do it verbally away from subordinates.If the NCO has an habitual problem correct them verbally and on paper.NCO's are the back bone of our military.

Response by SFC James Welch made Jun 7 at 2020 10:14 PM

SFC James Welch — Sun, 07 Jun 2020 22:14:38 -0400

Not in my view. There are other avenues of discipline to use that are more appropriate for a Junior NCO!

Response by MSG Dan Castaneda made Jun 7 at 2020 10:22 PM

MSG Dan Castaneda — Sun, 07 Jun 2020 22:22:33 -0400

The front leaning rest is for privates. A leader must know how to correct others leaders without making it seem as if they are being punished. Yet a SSG, is still young and still learning how to become an effective leader.

Response by CPT Cavett Ishihara made Jun 7 at 2020 10:33 PM

CPT Cavett Ishihara — Sun, 07 Jun 2020 22:33:53 -0400

An order like this is not punishment. It is training. Get out to the "right to work" as a civilian, you can be fired for _____ (you fill in the blank). You have to learn to lead. You lead by teaching.

Response by SSG Steven Borders made Jun 8 at 2020 12:28 AM

SSG Steven Borders — Mon, 08 Jun 2020 00:28:42 -0400

SSG Private RallyPoint Member for me they have have to do something very F'ed up for me to put a SGT in the front leaning rest. I have always been told praise in public, punish in private. Still a firm believer in that. That's my two cents.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 8 at 2020 1:06 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 08 Jun 2020 01:06:51 -0400

It's not inappropriate. Rare. But not inappropriate. And, I would like to add that if a SGT is getting dropped....they done f*cked up A-A-Ron

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 8 at 2020 2:25 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 08 Jun 2020 02:25:59 -0400

It’s a matter of the tools in your tool box. When I was a tabbed SPEC4 and a SGT my answer for everything and everyone was burpees and pushups. But then I realized that if I’m smoking my junior leaders that my junior enlisted wouldn’t respect them. So then I started talking to my junior leaders, teaching them when I could, challenging them when that failed, or just shaming them into conformity when all else failed. I used whatever tool it took to teach them. If it takes pushups because that SGT still thinks like a SPC then that’s what it takes.

I remember once being corrected by a 1SG as a new SSG. I was in Iraq and the radio person in the TOC had smarted off to me over the radio as I was returning from a patrol and from 8 days out in sector. So, my mood was already pretty foul. I caught him returning from the chow hall and in the evening and starting smoking him on the sidewalk. A 1SG walking by saw me and said, “Come here, SSG”. Then he said, if you’re going to smoke him take him to the side of the building where people aren’t watching.

The point is that a) I was still thinking like a SGT and not a SSG and b) these things need to be conducted in private away from others. I myself only learned through sweat and blood for years. But, it should be conducted away from the junior enlisted so as not to undermine the authority of the NCO Corps. Even if we aren’t always in agreement, we must always show that our juniors have our support and they speak with our voice, just as we speak with the commanders voice.

Response by SFC Marcus Lewis made Jun 8 at 2020 2:32 AM

SFC Marcus Lewis — Mon, 08 Jun 2020 02:32:08 -0400

Of course it is But NCO Business we correct behind closed doors, not in front of Joe.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Jun 8 at 2020 5:37 AM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Mon, 08 Jun 2020 05:37:52 -0400

Never in front of Junior enlisted. Corrective action and Discipline of NCOs should occur, but away from Soldiers.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 8 at 2020 7:41 AM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 08 Jun 2020 07:41:36 -0400

Yes. Anyone can be depending on attitude and professionalism. If they at a SGT and they act like a PV2 then coach and counseling them while smoking them. They act like a junior enlisted fresh off the block then they get treated like one. Reserve side I've seen 5's act disrespectful and know they are smoked but its in private. Like when my PSG dropped my PL, few knew about it but it still happened.
Otherwise I would hope the 5 receives guidance and opportunities for improvement but once done a few times, new tactic of dropping them. Remind them they still have to perform and listen.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 8 at 2020 8:43 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 08 Jun 2020 08:43:46 -0400

If the situation has escalated to the point where you need to put a SGT in front leaning rest, you have failed as a SSG.

Response by SPC Stewart Smith made Jun 8 at 2020 11:11 AM

SPC Stewart Smith — Mon, 08 Jun 2020 11:11:36 -0400

We had an E-6 put an E-5 in FLR when I was in el paso.
The next morning the 1SG spoke to the entire company how disrespectful an act like that is and that if we are ever in a position like that in the future to take the junior nco aside and discuss things privately.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 8 at 2020 6:45 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 08 Jun 2020 18:45:20 -0400

Yes. Praise in public, correct in private. Every senior enlisted I had as an infantry squad leader always corrected in private. That is professionalism. We also corrected individual squad members in private. Now, an entire squad or platoon is a different matter!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 8 at 2020 7:01 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 08 Jun 2020 19:01:51 -0400

Based strictly off of how you wrote the question, I'd say no. I've been dropped by my SSG before. Was I in the wrong? Technically yes. Did I take it to heart? Nope. In the end I took it as he felt his NCOs dropped the ball and it took some corrective action to ensure it didn't happen again, and he wasn't the type to put things on paper if it didn't warrant it.

As long as it's not in front of Joes I'd say it's not inappropriate. Of course, context matters. But I end it with this, SGTs fuck up from time to time. And a little smoke sesh to remind a SGT that they fucked up is a hell of a lot better than putting shit on paper.

Response by SFC Joseph Bouchey made Jun 11 at 2020 10:15 PM

SFC Joseph Bouchey — Thu, 11 Jun 2020 22:15:42 -0400

PT push up demonstrator ;-)

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 13 at 2020 6:49 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 13 Jun 2020 18:49:27 -0400

I find positive correction too be the best way to deal with junior NCOs. Not only do you garner the respect of your peers, communication dialogue go a long way with mentoring those who are newly appointed to the non-commissioned officer corpse.

Response by SFC Brian Gillum made Jun 30 at 2020 7:07 PM

SFC Brian Gillum — Tue, 30 Jun 2020 19:07:11 -0400

If you are doing a mass corrective measure for the platoon/squad/team. Sure.

If you are just singling our the SGT; yes and no.

Yes you can, but no you can’t do it when or where others can see.

Praise in public; reprimand in private.