Posted on Aug 7, 2017
Is it legal for a Dept of Army Civilian (GS10-15) to demand and expect a Soldier, lets say a Sr. NCO or a Jr. Officer, to do push-ups?
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Corrective Training
DoD Civilian
Orders
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 1086
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When I was a 1SG I would have put my foot up a civilians ass for trying to impose corrective actions on a Soldier. Now that I am a GS civilian...I would put my foot up a civilians ass for trying to impose corrective actions on a Soldier.
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SrA John Monette
well played 1SG Stephen Burgess!! I see what you did there. what's good for the goose is good for the goose
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SPC James Seigars
As another person who has also worked both sides I agree 100% Top. I have seen some Civilians that, like some Military people unfortunately, let their rank go to their head and try to overstep their actual authority. It is a lot easier to “deal” with Military personnel with that character flaw/defect in my opinion than it is a high ranking civilian that has it.
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LTC Jorge Cordero
SGT Dan Gray - As both a retired military and a former GS civilian, I too would put my foot up their ass!!
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CPO Calvin Covert
They need to be told stay out the military's business if they want to be still in the service give up their GS and return to the military.
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On Embassy Duty, as the Company "F" OpsO, I had a State Department General Services Officer (sort of the embassy S-4) tell me he was the equivalent of a Brigadier General and demand that I stand at attention when I addressed him and render a hand salute upon arrival or departure of his presence. The Ambassador (a Former Marine Artillery Officer) and I laughed so hard we couldn't breathe. When the Ambassador could finally speak, he said "Not even in pay grade... dumbass." Then we laughed some more.
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1stSgt John Harrison
A moment of joy, I was a eye tech in a clinic when this lady? waiting to order eyeglasses announced that she is Mrs. Col. so and so, and was in a hurry and needed to be waited on immediately, I glanced up at my current patient and we both got a little smile on our face, I stated to mrs col so and so meet Mrs. General so and so, as my patient turned to look at the col’ s wife She said I’ll see you at the officers wives club. Mrs col. slunk out the door, as Mrs. General and I had a good laugh, never saw the colonel’s wife again.
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MAJ Judd Clemens
When I was a brand new 2nd LT (w/10 years in the Army), my wife came home from an officers' wives meeting and said that the captain's wife demanded that all of the women stand up when she comes into the room. It was the only time I ever heard my wife say "I've got more time in the chow line than she's got in the Army." I don't think that ridiculous demand was ever enforced.
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TSgt (Join to see)
I was a military brat. When an Officer's brat tried to pull rank we usually kicked his alpha, one on one. If he won he earned his attitude.
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From my operational background (not legal, not a JAG), the legal requirement to obey legal orders given by superior commissioned officers is well known and established. A GS civilian is not a superior commissioned officer, and is not in the direct chain of command. The only situation where I could imagine a GS civilian having any authority to direct even one push-up would be a doctor or nurse during an examination following an injury to determine readiness, or during physical therapy, but even then these would be considered medical advice and not orders. If you failed to follow medical advice and as a result you harmed yourself or prevented recovery, then your commander could legally punish you, but that's about as close as I can imagine.
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Cpl Daniel Davis
In my experience as a Contractor in a DoD Agency, if a GS/SES had an issue with a military personnel, they put it to their senior commissioned officer/non-commissioned officer to deal with it. SES's deal with the GSs. GS's deal with the Contractors, and the military deal with their own.
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Sgt Dan Catlin
Really? This is an issue? a.) Civilians have no authority to discipline service members. If assigned to work with civilians, they can register a complaint. But making a serviceman do pushups? That's laughable. b.) NCO's and officers were never punished with pushups when I was in, and I'd be surprised if that has changed. They did PT with the rest of us (Company Grade officers and staff and gunny's at least). But punishment by pushups, especially for senior NCO's and officers was unheard of!
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