Is it LEGAL to require a 70% in APFT events for board/promotion?

2015-05-17T00:54:01-04:00

As I stated above is it LEGAL for a unit to require a 70% in all APFT events in order to be able to attend the promotion board?

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2015 3:39 AM

2015-05-17T03:39:58-04:00

It isn't a matter of legal or illegal as much as it being the subjective requirement that a command informally uses to measure someone for promotion potential. I wouldn't recommend a soldier for promotion if they can't break 10% of the bottom of the barrel standard. The minimum standard is just that and isn't deserving of reward or promotion.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2015 5:30 AM

2015-05-17T05:30:49-04:00

Go to your JAG office on base and ask them

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2015 10:25 AM

2015-05-17T10:25:01-04:00

I am just going to throw this out there. I was a PFC and made it on up to SSG before going to dark side. I would be more concerned about having such a low PT score than questioning why I can't get promoted with anything in the 60% category. I can't recall even really dropping below a 270. I was more concerned about being the best than just passing. But that is just me.

Response by SFC Stephen King made May 17 at 2015 10:36 AM

2015-05-17T10:36:45-04:00

Regulations are your best defense that being said the minimum standard is 60 points in each event. However, a Unit's standard are usually higher for a purpose. Legal is a JAG question. Yet, think of this when you become a Senior NCO are you going to want a 70 or are you going to want a Soldier that strives for excellence?

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made May 17 at 2015 10:43 AM

2015-05-17T10:43:56-04:00

I would have to say it is legal. I know the AF has numberous programs that require a higher PT score than the minimum passing score. Developmental Special Duties and MRT just to name a few.

Response by SGM Matthew Quick made May 17 at 2015 10:49 AM

2015-05-17T10:49:07-04:00

No...The Army establishes a MINIMUM APFT score of 60% in each event to remain eligible for continued service, which includes promotion, so individual units (units which SMs did not apply for) should not be increasing the Army's MINIMUM standards.

Example: If a fully-qualified Soldier is assigned to 1st Cavalry Division (example) by their Branch Manager and the unit does not allow the Soldier to attend a promotion board because they cannot attain 70% in each APFT event, the Soldier will reach their RCP and will have been unfairly restricted from normal career progression.

Exceptions for specific units to increase APFT score requirements would be for those NCOs applying for Ranger training, Special Forces, an assignment within a special/nominative unit (i.e., Drill Sergeant, 3rd U.S. Infantry Regiment (The Old Guard), etc).

**PERSONAL NOTE** I believe all medically qualified NCOs should earn a 240 or above (80%) on their APFTs...if they cannot, they should work harder (it's a choice) or not be placed in leadership positions.

**SPECIAL NOTE** My personal beliefs never override Army policy/regulation/doctrine...the Army MINIMUM APFT scores remains 180 points (60% in each event).

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2015 11:12 AM

2015-05-17T11:12:43-04:00

SGM hit the nail on the head. You can not deny a Soldier promotion based on not meeting a higher standard. SGT Escott it's all in AR 350-1 take a look and stay informed.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2015 2:34 PM

2015-05-17T14:34:37-04:00

What's the rest of the story? Theres more to this. When I was getting ready to go to the promotion board way back when I was a SPC. I was told it was mandatory to attend the SOM board prior. Reasoning was simple it would help be better prepared for the promotion board. BLUF. Yes it did help me immensely. I knew the information , but appearing in front of a board helped me in overall presentation and get rid of nervousness. Worked too scored 198 out of 200.

But anyway. I don't see it being a issue. As competitive as promotions are getting why not strive for higher than the minimum?

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2015 2:50 PM

2015-05-17T14:50:47-04:00

I've been out for a while, but I don't think that's legal. It's a 350 ar, but I can't remember which one.
I'm of the opinion that the army standard is the army standard, soldiers shouldn't be penalized for meeting it. unless the promotion point system has changed PT is already reflected on it and points awarded based off what the army decided.
That said a 60% percent pt score might be indicative of a 60% percent soldier, but if he was, you wouldn't be asking and you'd have enough ammunition to not board him.

Response by CH (COL) Geoff Bailey made May 17 at 2015 4:34 PM

2015-05-17T16:34:12-04:00

Response by SGM Matthew Quick made May 17 at 2015 4:49 PM

2015-05-17T16:49:05-04:00

**COMPROMISE**

How about this...less than 70% can attend board, it'll be a leaders discretion if that sub-70%er earns their promotable status. Win-win?

Response by SSG VNicia Young made May 17 at 2015 6:02 PM

2015-05-17T18:02:57-04:00

Yes I believe that is suitable being that the military numbers are high and they want to cut back. Make the standards for promotion higher and make people work hard for it and fight for it. A NCO should want to set high standards all the way around the board.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2015 7:01 PM

2015-05-17T19:01:57-04:00

Regardless if it's legal or not, I'd imagine that they would only be sending the top performers to the promotion board. So that question kind of answers itself.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made May 17 at 2015 7:03 PM

2015-05-17T19:03:03-04:00

I had a bad day and scored only a 220 on a AFPT once which is 73 percent of a 300 on an APFT. I am a college graduate mind you. One of my peers said to get where he is and score a 300 on the APFT. I told him to get where I am go to college. Soldier's shouldn't be held back from potential because if an APFT score especially if they excel in everything else and perhaps better than other Soldiers. Keeping a Soldier from progressing because of his or her APFT score does not support a whole Soldier concept. Not everyone is a PT guru, and not everyone is a college graduate either. I don't believe in using just a APFT score to judge a Soldier's potential.

Response by MSG Scott Milne made Jun 29 at 2015 3:55 PM

2015-06-29T15:55:54-04:00

This is great, all these responses about the PT and i wonder? Where is the % about the soldiers ability to lead? I have lived and survived thurogh garrison and war time. garrison will become what it was before, the dog and pony show with the crack lickers striving to get ahead. Set the precentage at what you want it to be, 80, 90 what ever. Make it the standarded. But take leadership and ability to do the job 1st! Thank fully I never scored above a 260 in over 27 years, hell SLC was 61 in the run. My leadership looked for more than "presentation" they wanted substance!

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 12 at 2016 8:18 PM

2016-12-12T20:18:30-05:00

Whether it is legal or not, why would you not score at least a 70%? As an NCO, you need to set the example with excellent scores in the APFT. If you want to be promoted, you can not be just getting by with your APFT scores.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2016 9:30 AM

2016-12-15T09:30:36-05:00

No, it's not.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2018 1:41 PM

2018-03-02T13:41:47-05:00

Is not about the "legality", it is just OUTSIDE REGULATION. As of today, the MINIMUM score is 180. Also remember that there are promotion points for the APFT, so the higher you score, the more points you get. There are only two brackets that change in your 4100, Weapons Qualification and APFT, because those can either increase or decrease. College credits, schools, online courses, awards, etc., once they are entered into the system, they should appear every year. ARMY STRONG.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Mar 2 at 2018 2:10 PM

2018-03-02T14:10:25-05:00

Check- I thought the ARMY set that standard, tho most units I was in would require at least 70% and higher for promotion.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Mar 2 at 2018 9:58 PM

2018-03-02T21:58:02-05:00

If I wanted a slacker in my NCO Corps, then I would have not had promotion Board for E5's and promotion recommendation on E-6 & up NCOER's

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 2 at 2019 12:01 PM

2019-04-02T12:01:45-04:00

It’s not legal. However it can be used as a determinant of how the board members perceive you, and perception is reality.