Is it normal to lose two stripes when transferring services?

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 01 Jun 2023 16:47:37 -0400

Yesterday I went from an E-6 in the ANG to an E-4 in the Army Guard. I was selected for a pilot slot, so the rank is temporary until I attend WOCS in January, but it is a pretty significant pay cut for me when I go through basic training. My recruiter had submitted a grade waiver to keep my rank and NGB denied it. I was going to press the issue until I read through AR 600-8-19 CAO 16 May 2019, paragraph 7-24, which essentially says USAF PME does not count and will not be waivered.

However, I have seen several references on this website from USAF NCOs who were able to keep their rank after transferring to the army, so I guess I am curious how they were able to manage that.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2023 5:41 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 01 Jun 2023 17:41:12 -0400

Contact one of these three gentlemen... they are very knowledgeable in Military related questions/issues.

Response by LTC Trent Klug made Jun 1 at 2023 8:15 PM

LTC Trent Klug — Thu, 01 Jun 2023 20:15:51 -0400

SPC Private RallyPoint Member Did those two people have MOS qualifications similar to the ones they moved to in the Army Guard? More than likely they did.

Response by CSM William Everroad made Jun 2 at 2023 8:38 AM

CSM William Everroad — Fri, 02 Jun 2023 08:38:56 -0400

SPC Private RallyPoint Member as LTC Trent Klug pointed out, branch transfers are scrutinized pretty heavily.

If you are transferring to the same MOS from AD to AR/NG you will likely keep the rank. Going the other way, you might lose a grade or two depending on your service record (deployments/ accrued AD time, etc). Crossing branches is trickier. Most times the MOSs do not match up, and likely you won't have supervisory experience in the job specialty you are going into, let alone subject matter expertise. The PME requirement is a huge one.

Without more information on the other USAF NCOs, no one will be able to tell you how they kept their rank. Maybe they were going into the same or a similar MOS, maybe they were going into a critical shortage MOS with "will train" stipulations, maybe their rank was converted to "temporary" pending completion of required PME for whatever other reason.

What MOS did you have from the ANG and which MOS are you slotted in now?

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Jun 2 at 2023 10:13 AM

SSgt Christophe Murphy — Fri, 02 Jun 2023 10:13:12 -0400

It's not unheard of but it all depends on the details. I'm sure if you dialed down into the weeds you would see something that would explain the difference in your situation when compared to other folks who kept their rank. It could be a policy or it could be a training or qualification issue. It's hard to debate when all of the details are unknown factors. When I was on my second contract I entertained the idea of transferring to the Coast Guard but because they are rate based and I was Infantry at the time I would have had to go from an E5 to an E3 and at what would have been my 8 year mark that just didn't seem prudent so I didn't go through with it.

Response by COL Randall C. made Jun 2 at 2023 10:48 AM

COL Randall C. — Fri, 02 Jun 2023 10:48:19 -0400

Is it "normal"? That completely depends on your situation regarding if you have the qualifications for holding that rank according to the other Service's standard.

DoD's guidance to the Services for inter-service transfers is to maintain the rank from the prior Service "if possible". It is more commonplace that it would be a reduction of one grade, but a two grade reduction does occur, especially if there is a PME requirement involved (such as your situation).

As to your last question, there are many possibilities, but they all come down two situations - they were either qualified to hold the rank or they had a waiver approved by HRC.

It IS possible that you could have a waiver approved, but you would have to show that you demonstrated that you met the learning objectives for BLC* (for E-5) and ALC (for E-6). AR 350-1* para 3-20 lays out the requirements you'd have to go though in order to show constructive or operations credit based on your experience in the Air Force.
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* Army's BLC Individual Student Assessment Plan (ISAP) - https://www.usar.army.mil/Portals/98/Images/Training_Commands/83rd%20USARRTC/McCoy/BLC/ISAP.PDF
* AR 350-1 - https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/pdf/web/ARN18487_R350_1_Admin_FINAL.pdf

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Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Jun 2 at 2023 12:21 PM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Fri, 02 Jun 2023 12:21:47 -0400

Retaining rank between services depends on the similarity in MOS, generally. If you were accepted into WOC and will attend after Basic training/AIT then you will receive (as I recall) E5 pay.

You aren’t qualified for E6 in another service. Getting it waivers is highly unlikely

Response by MSG Bob S made Jun 5 at 2023 1:56 AM

MSG Bob S — Mon, 05 Jun 2023 01:56:43 -0400

Are you looking at the big picture here? Your family will have to really tighten the lid belt while you’re in basic training, and once you graduate from basic you get advanced to E-5 by the very nature of you going to WOCS/WOFT. Assuming you successfully complete WOFT you will then be a WO1 which if I recall from when my good friend went from the street to the pilot seat in 1992 that’s about the equivalent of an E-6 or E-7 plus flight pay.

Response by PO1 David Kingsley made Jul 26 at 2023 5:31 AM

PO1 David Kingsley — Wed, 26 Jul 2023 05:31:22 -0400

the biggest concern is if the jobs are the same? if you are a qualified Engine Mechanic, but you don't know about Jet Engines, the you're going to need to take supplemental training. You're going to need the Training to learn the difference between the way the Different branches of service do things.

Response by 1SG Gary Bacon made Aug 4 at 2023 2:08 PM

1SG Gary Bacon — Fri, 04 Aug 2023 14:08:03 -0400

I went from Navy to Army reserve and lost one stripe. This was back in 1985 though.