Is it ok for veterans to use their old rank, if others address them by it?

SGT Jonathan Williams — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 21:41:37 -0500

Good evening. I have a general etiquette question that caught me off guard earlier today.

I am separated from the Army. Not retired. So I can't be SGT So and So (ret.)

That is ok. So I still have to write the Army people from time to time. I wrote the education section regarding the college transfer of education benefits. I signed the message with my first name. The person helping me knew I was no longer with the Army. We have an email exchange. After she looks at my record and the addressing starts to be "SGT So and So".

At this point I am wondering if I should correct her, accept it, start signing "SGT So and So". I continued to sign with my first name. Friends, what are your thoughts? What do you do when people want to address you by a former rank?

Response by LTC David S. Chang, ChFC®, CLU® made Jan 14 at 2015 10:28 PM

LTC David S. Chang, ChFC®, CLU® — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 22:28:25 -0500

I think just letting it be is ok. I believe she is doing it out of respect. Becoming a SGT is an honor so calling you that is a respectful thing.

I would just move on and use your first and last name as a civilian would.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2015 10:41 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 22:41:47 -0500

You are forever a SGT rather you decide to inform people is up to you. Many famous military continue under the title of the rank because they earned it. You are not actively serving but you are allowed to identify with your achievements.

People may also choose not to acknowledge your rank. As long as your honorable discharge says you left as a SGT, you are a SGT.
Congratulations SGT and thank you for voluteneering to serve and defend.

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Jan 15 at 2015 7:14 PM

TSgt Joshua Copeland — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 19:14:47 -0500

Rank once earned should be yours forever. Only a Art15, court martial or rank determination board can take it away.

Response by MSgt Robert Pellam made Jan 15 at 2015 7:55 PM

MSgt Robert Pellam — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 19:55:06 -0500

I definitely agree with everyone who has posted on here. Once rank is earned it is yours. That being said I have a little story to tell.

After I retired in 2013 I went back to School full time. As I was meeting with my first adviser who was a PhD in English and Co dean of the Department of Education at the school. While sitting with her she was looking at my name and asked what I like to be called. I answer with the standard Rob, as it is my first name, but half jokingly i also chimed in, "You can call me Master Sergeant, or Sergeant if you like." She quickly chimed in "I am not calling you that." I honestly blew it off as a half joke. I turned around and asked her what she like to be called, "Professor? Mrs? First name? Dr?" Her immediate response was, " Dr. It is what I earned."

Now the irony of that statement hit me then, but honestly I just dropped it because I was quite new at the University and did not want to start conflict with my array of new professors, who some were younger then me including my adviser.

But; How was my title of Master Sergeant any different from her Dr.? What elevated hers above mine? I earned my title, and worn it with distinction till I retired in 2013. My achievement was documented like hers and was earned though countless hours of hard work, study, blood, sweat and tears.

The answer I have come up with is.. It is not different. Our titles we earn in the military are just as important as any title earned in the Civilian world. If you wish to use your title outside the military, a title you earned, then you have every right to. No one should tell you otherwise. And to this date, if I send any type of email correspondence to my professors. I do use the title block of Master Sergeant, USAF Retired. And I use it with pride.

Response by SSG Trevor S. made Jan 15 at 2015 8:39 PM

SSG Trevor S. — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 20:39:52 -0500

You could realize she is trying her best to respect you, or you could sign like this just for fun:

Jonathan Williams
Voter USA
Relaxing

You can also take a look here:
CITE-10 USC Sec. 772 01/03/2012 (112-90) TITLE 10 - ARMED FORCES Subtitle A - General Military Law PART II - PERSONNEL CHAPTER 45 - THE UNIFORM  Sec. 772. When wearing by persons not on active duty authorized 
(e) A person not on active duty who served honorably in time of war in the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps may bear the title, and, when authorized by regulations prescribed by the President, wear the uniform, of the highest grade held by him during that war. http://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title10/subtitleA/part2/chapter45&edition=prelim

10 USC Ch. 45: THE UNIFORM

1992—Pub. L. 102–484, div. A, title III, §377(b), Oct. 23, 1992, 106 Stat. 2387, added item 775 and redesignated former item 775 as 776.

Response by SPC Stewart Smith made Jan 15 at 2015 8:53 PM

SPC Stewart Smith — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 20:53:53 -0500

I think people do it out of respect. However, I think the most respectable thing for you to do would to be transparent with her. If you wish to be addressed by your name, then let her know that. Honestly really is this best policy.

Response by SFC Dan Sorrow, M.S. made Jan 15 at 2015 9:13 PM

SFC Dan Sorrow, M.S. — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 21:13:39 -0500

All correspondence I receive from the Army and the VA addresses me as SFC (Retired). On the civilian side of my life, I have worked for two Chief Judges who were in the Army during Vietnam. Both call me Sergeant every time they see, call, or email me. It's their way of showing respect for the rank I earned while serving our great nation.

Accept it and be grateful someone recognizes it. Most don't.

Response by SSG John M. made Jan 15 at 2015 9:23 PM

SSG John M. — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 21:23:32 -0500

WW II Vets are always addressed as Sir/Ma'am
Korean War Vets are always addressed as Sir/Ma'am

Any Officer will be greeted with the proper greeting.... All the Way Sir/Ma'am
Any Senior NCO will be greeted with the proper greeting.... Airborne
Any questions
Airborne

Response by MCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2015 9:40 PM

MCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 21:40:30 -0500

Great... I guess _I_ have to be the one.

I disagree with all of the previous posts. You are no longer a Sergeant - you aren't AD, you aren't a Reservist, and you aren't a Retiree... You are "MISTER" Williams. Your byline should read:
Jonathan Williams
Mr. Williams served XX years in the US Army, attaining the rank of Sergeant.

A very wise man once told me something about folks that get out of the service that I hold with me to this day, "Used to be's don't make no honey."

I'm a danged retired E-9, and the ONLY time I need to be called, "Master Chief" is when I'm playing HALO. Other than that, I'm a "Mister" or just a "Jerald" or "Jerry." On occasion, I have been called by other, less attractive names, but this is a family site... ;)

Response by LTJG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2015 7:37 AM

LTJG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Jan 2015 07:37:19 -0500

It's definitely a respect thing. You don't have to sign with the tank you were. They still know who you are and it sounds like they are just trying to respect you and your service.

Response by SPC Joshua H. made Jan 16 at 2015 9:39 AM

SPC Joshua H. — Fri, 16 Jan 2015 09:39:31 -0500

I'm going to agree with all of the posts I have read thus far. It's yours, you did earn it.

That being said, in the civy world, I am not going to call people by their rank (can thank the bad ones for that, even though the vast majority are good) unless I'm in a situation where it is called for.

I was a the Quartermaster Symposium in Ft Lee a few years ago as a representative for the company I worked for at the time. Anyone I spoke to I was using their rank as I was on their grounds, not at the mall. Just a simple sign of respect and professionalism that fit the circumstances.

Response by PO2 Seth Carron made Jan 16 at 2015 11:35 PM

PO2 Seth Carron — Fri, 16 Jan 2015 23:35:21 -0500

Personally if it was someone I served with who just randomly walked up and addressed me by rank or last name I'd let it be, but a random stranger or someone from work, I'd wanna try and keep it on a first name basis, that's what's been happening for years for me and its pretty easy to go with.

Response by Sgt Joshua Seavey made Jan 18 at 2015 12:16 AM

Sgt Joshua Seavey — Sun, 18 Jan 2015 00:16:46 -0500

If you got out as a SGT then you are and will always be SGT as far as I am concerned. I don't care what branch you are, if you earned the rank its yours until you get promoted.

If you want to be called (I know you didn't say that) SGT then you should be called SGT. It's like addressing someone you don't know or your future employer as SIR/MA'AM. It's being respectful. Calling you SGT is being respectful to you.

Hope That Helps

Response by CPT Christopher Webb made Jan 14 at 2016 2:09 PM

CPT Christopher Webb — Thu, 14 Jan 2016 14:09:24 -0500

It seems to me that what DOD has to say about this topic is meaningless once you are no longer part of DOD. Here in the South anybody who wants to continue to introduce themselves by their last rank held can do so ... and anybody who wants to address them as such can do so. I'll also go so far as to say that addressing a Veteran by his highest held rank is damn near expected in some parts.

At least in Texas, there is no greater service to both Texas and the USA than serving in the military. Given that Veterans are held in such high regard, and there is no other way to distinguish themselves as Veterans, the use of one's rank is more than appropriated for those who wish to do so. There's regulations while you are on active duty/reserves ... but tradition takes over after that.

Last, why in the world does Rally Point call me Captain Webb if there's something wrong with it? In my heart of hearts I am still Captain Webb and have never been able to separate my self-identity from it. As someone already said, a rank earned is a rank owned, at least in title ... and I dare say that every honorably discharged Veteran deserves this title, retired or not.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Sep 29 at 2017 9:45 AM

SGM Bill Frazer — Fri, 29 Sep 2017 09:45:01 -0400

Many of my old line troops still call me SSG, or PSG or just Dad- which is fine with me. Other old friends call me Top, again ok, A few new friends (1 BG Ret, USA) call me SGM, again that's ok. Myself when I sign something-1. Line Name, 2. Line USA, Ret. I prefer not to wave my rank in peoples faces, I served, I was lucky, I survived and that's all that matters to me.

Response by Capt Jose R made May 27 at 2018 10:24 AM

Capt Jose R — Sun, 27 May 2018 10:24:17 -0400

Depends. If you're a defense contractor and attempting to influence your Department of Defense client by letting them know you're a veteran/retiree to gain favor, than no. Real world example; We had a recently retired Air Force Colonel (O-6) obtain a job with a defense contractor that was doing work for the Air Force. The retired O-6 working for the contractor was ok since he waited long enough and didn't work in the program that he managed as a military member.

The problem was when he referred to himself as Joe Smith, Col, USAF, Retired instead of Joe Smith, Project Manager, XYZ Corp in official email traffic. The Contracting Officer, a smart man, promptly told him to stop using his military rank in emails that pertained to contractual issues. To be fair, the retired O-6 did a good job and finished job on time and within budget. They let him go when his old military contacts retired and he stopped bringing in more work to the company.

Another violation I noticed when traveling to a military base. The base had a billboard where they announced Colonel/Generals/High Ranking civilians that were visiting base for work purposes. They had a retired general who became an executive with a large defense contractor working for the same service. The billboard said "Doug Jones, MGen USAF (Retired) Director of X-55 Fighter Operations XYZ Corporation. That's wrong for a retired flag officer obviously using his rank to gain influence and profit for a private corporation that had a huge contract with the same service he retired from.

Response by MSgt Neil Greenfield made Jul 2 at 2019 12:02 AM

MSgt Neil Greenfield — Tue, 02 Jul 2019 00:02:13 -0400

After you pass away, as an honorably discharged veteran or retiree, you are entitled to a free headstone or grave marker, care of the USG, which will be delivered to your next of kin.
That gift/benefit/entitlement will have your full name, dates of birth/death, your highest rank and military service, and any conflicts that occurred while you were serving.
So, long after your death, you will be referred to by your rank. Now that’s eternal!

Response by SSG Jim Husselman made Sep 12 at 2020 10:40 PM

SSG Jim Husselman — Sat, 12 Sep 2020 22:40:31 -0400

I would say it is a polite sign of respect Hooah!

Response by MAJ James Price made Jul 16 at 2021 7:58 PM

MAJ James Price — Fri, 16 Jul 2021 19:58:50 -0400

#1. You are a civilian, not under the UCMJ. #2. You legitimately earned the rank Sergeant. (And didn't buy a Big Chicken Dinner). #3. It a courtesy title. So #4. If you want to be Sergeant X, be SGT X. If not don't. #5. Did I mention it's a courtesy title?

Response by MAJ James Price made Jul 16 at 2021 8:15 PM

MAJ James Price — Fri, 16 Jul 2021 20:15:28 -0400

I work with new ppl all the time. I introduce myself as James. If I am lucky enough to catch a vet/retiree/ reservist/guardsman, I love to chat about the military. I usually call them rank & last name after that. It's a courtesy title among warriors. Do I expect civilians who have never served to know or care? Sure don't. Ours is a Brother (and Sister) hood that we share. Do I ever put my rank down on correspondence (or my MBA for that matter)? No, why would I?