Is it possible for a soldier pending chapter to be demoted and separated instead due to meeting RCP?

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 12 Jun 2016 20:07:47 -0400

I would think that a demotion would void that soldiers chance of RCP.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Jun 12 at 2016 8:11 PM

SGM Erik Marquez — Sun, 12 Jun 2016 20:11:31 -0400

If an SM is demoted, and the rank demoted to has an RCP that exceeds his TIS, the SM will be separated per MILPER message reference RCP... However, if there is another separation pending, I do not know of a "precedence" list, or chart that would require one type of separation over another.. I can not say for sure, but I assume based on an educated guess, the current and in process separation will continue unless the C of C finds it more advantageous to the government to stop the current separation action and process the SM for exceeding his RCP

Response by CPT Mark Gonzalez made Jun 13 at 2016 12:04 AM

CPT Mark Gonzalez — Mon, 13 Jun 2016 00:04:59 -0400

It depends on whether they already have an involuntary separation flag. If pending chapter without this flag they could rcp and a lot of times people say they are being chaptered, but are not yet flagged for elimination. I've seen separations under rcp in this circumstance and the logic is it is faster, especially if the separation will be honorable regardless. It depend on the situation though and you have to ensure you don't do a disservice and allow a bad apple to easily transition to the reserves.

Response by SFC Jon Vandeyacht made Jun 16 at 2016 9:09 AM

SFC Jon Vandeyacht — Thu, 16 Jun 2016 09:09:26 -0400

Ive seen it. Good soldier told he was going to be rcp'd instead of reenlisted. He went from good to dirtbag almost overnight. Became disruptive, combattive, disrespectful, accused of theft but no proof, and toxic to good soldiers. He was warned several times and as he got shorter, it became worse.
Coc finally decided to Art 15 him, put some restrictions on him and he violated them and got worse.
Finally, 120 days short, he was 'busted'. Reduced in rank, forfeiture of pay, 30 days confinement at Charlies chicken farm. There, he started fights with other soldiers and leadership. With less than 60 days to go, he was chaptered out with an OTH.
He screwed up many good years of service because he thought there was nothing anyone could do to him and he got an attitude... this was also the army of 12 years ago, who knows now, since discipline isnt what it was.

Response by SPC Matthew Birkinbine made Jun 16 at 2016 10:29 AM

SPC Matthew Birkinbine — Thu, 16 Jun 2016 10:29:21 -0400

You're chaptered either way, it may show both chapters the SM is being separated under.

Response by SGM Nathan Thomas made Jun 16 at 2016 10:30 AM

SGM Nathan Thomas — Thu, 16 Jun 2016 10:30:56 -0400

I have been out for a minute, but I believe AR 635-200 would be where one would look to ensure they were on the right side.

Response by CSM Curt Tipton made Jun 16 at 2016 11:19 AM

CSM Curt Tipton — Thu, 16 Jun 2016 11:19:30 -0400

Yes, it is (or at least was) possible. For example: I was the 1SG of B Co, 124th MI Bn at Fort Stewart in 1991-92. The Company had a real dirt bag soldier who after two Article 15s had been reduced to PV1 and was pending a chapter discharge. He his the RCP and was separated BEFORE the chapter discharge was processed and thus left with an Honorable discharge. I was furious as were the CSM, the Bn Cdr and the Co Cdr. We found out the hard way that we should have processed the chapter discharge first, then while it was in process, applied the article 15 and demoted him.

Response by SPC Glenn Lovell made Jun 16 at 2016 12:34 PM

SPC Glenn Lovell — Thu, 16 Jun 2016 12:34:28 -0400

Back in 1996 I was working the personnel actions office at B det 38th PSB in Schweinfurt, and a soldier from 1/4 cav was being chaptered out for a 14-2 misconduct, which had already been sent off to HQDA for approval. The soldier went to the clinic and started a medical discharge, to try and beat the bad conduct discharge that was coming. The soldier contacted his congressman and I got a call from a senator, so I explained the situation to him and told him that the only way that it would change would be which one DA approved first, and his misconduct was already there. Next thing I know, there were medical discharge orders expidited to me from DA - so behold the power of whining, I guess.

The rule of thumb from that was, whichever got processed first is what goes. Although, you might want to contact da to see if there is Stay of Action, like in a court of law, when adverse actions are being processed at the DA level.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 16 at 2016 1:28 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 16 Jun 2016 13:28:38 -0400

Sadly, I do not have a regulatory reference, but I am professionally familiar with the chapter process and NJP process. That being said, whenever I've seen Soldiers pending chapter lose rank due to a separate issue, they become RCP separated if they have exceeded their control point TIS.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 16 at 2016 1:38 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 16 Jun 2016 13:38:57 -0400

Yes it is possible to reduce a soldier in rank while they are pending a chapter discharge, I know from personal experience. I was demoted from E4 to E1 when I got my chapter discharge from active duty.

Response by SSG Mark Jordan made Jun 16 at 2016 8:15 PM

SSG Mark Jordan — Thu, 16 Jun 2016 20:15:20 -0400

A Chapter paperwork pending does stop RCP most of the time. It depends how bad chain wants sm out of service. Also if there chapter is a bad conduct discharge that effects benfits once out.

Response by SSG Mark Jordan made Jun 16 at 2016 8:19 PM

SSG Mark Jordan — Thu, 16 Jun 2016 20:19:19 -0400

Also once they are demoted there date of rank starts over as for example if SPC John J Snuffy gets demoted on 1 July his date of rank is now for the demoted rank. Yex they may be at time in service most of the time if your getting demoted and chapter it will result in a bad condut discharge

Response by CPL Any Jim made May 24 at 2018 4:09 PM

CPL Any Jim — Thu, 24 May 2018 16:09:05 -0400

If you have over 6 years tis than a board is needed to chapter ? If you is an rcp with highest rank ever of spc-4 than demoted you are entitled to complete remainder of you contract! If you is an e-5 or higher and demoted to a rank making you rcp you contract will end about time you were demoted .... But any one and everyone knows the efficeny of army is not as rapid as the written rules and regulations on paper .... I.e. example sm is flagged for being over weight or pt failure : an wants to take leave ? Command throws out famous 1 liner leave is a privalge not a right ! Than sm is etsing : no adverse action ' pt qualified ' weapon qualified & command says technically we dont have to approave transistion leave ? Efficency is slow in service but commands use loop holes as a form of leadership and shuts down of all subordinate use of loop holes : i.e. sm flagged over weight and well we can deny you block leave ... Its a never ending story ....