Is it possible to get promoted this quickly in the Air Force? Is this typical for band members?

2015-09-19T20:52:54-04:00

So, this girl is 19, 4 months TIS and made Tech. Sgt (E-6) already. Typo? Misprint? Or horrible lapse in judgement?

Has anyone else heard about this?

http://www.usafband.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123449378

Meet the Newest Member of Max Impact

Magic. Ka. Fate. Synchronicity. Call it what you will, but every once and a while, the stars align and create the perfect scenario for special events to transpire. Some of that magic happened last fall when Max Impact lost long-time singer extraordinaire, Master Sgt. Shani Prewitt, to

Response by LTC Stephen F. made Sep 19 at 2015 9:03 PM

2015-09-19T21:03:36-04:00

No I had not seen anything about this SrA Private RallyPoint Member . That is an amazing promotion rate. If she has some very unique skills that are both needed and in very short supply this speedy promotion may make sense.
As a USAF band member I expect she had much experience prior to joining the USAF. Similar to Doctors and Lawyers who come in at O-3 at least many times, I think band members are lured to the military with a higher than baseline salary expectation.

Response by SFC Everett Oliver made Sep 19 at 2015 9:22 PM

2015-09-19T21:22:14-04:00

I can't say I agree with such a rapid promotion of a performer. But at the same time I certainly appreciate what they do...

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 19 at 2015 9:27 PM

2015-09-19T21:27:24-04:00

Not familiar with air force, but I went through navy basic training with two guys who were members of the Navy's bluejacket choir and they can in as E-6's/PO1. The military musical groups are basically morale and PR for the forces. They attract talent with the higher initial pay but it's not very easy to make rank in their community.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 19 at 2015 9:35 PM

2015-09-19T21:35:12-04:00

In a non-band/non-talent position, I entered the Army as an E-1 and put on my E-5 in 23 months. That is the fastest I have ever heard of making NCO outside the "entertainment" skill sets.

I have seen a couple of times Soldiers join the Army and attend basic as a E-4 and then commission after graduation. So E-4 to O-1 in 3 months.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 20 at 2015 3:15 AM

2015-09-20T03:15:39-04:00

When I went through basic I was in the band flight and knew to in my flight going into the AF Band one got TSgt the other MSgt. It is based on what band they made through tryouts. The way it was explained to me is that most Airman that make those bands likely had some college if not a bachelors in music. It is a tool to entice skilled musicians to enlist to play for the AF Band, because they would likely make that much or more in an equivalent civilian orchestra/band.

Response by TSgt Gwen Walcott made Sep 20 at 2015 10:51 AM

2015-09-20T10:51:21-04:00

Same could be said of physicians, lawyers, and chaplains.
I feel your pain

Response by MSgt Curtis Ellis made Sep 20 at 2015 11:42 AM

2015-09-20T11:42:52-04:00

I definitely went into the wrong AFSC....

Response by SrA Jonathan Carbonaro made Sep 20 at 2015 3:06 PM

2015-09-20T15:06:48-04:00

The band that she is in, is the highest Band for the Air Force. The people who make this band usually have Masters and Doctorates degrees. They might have years of touring behind them, they are experts already in their profession before coming into the military. Lastly the Band isn't like any other job in the Air Force, and nor is that a bad thing. Those positions very rarely open up.

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Sep 20 at 2015 5:03 PM

2015-09-20T17:03:31-04:00

AF Premier Band gets an automatic promotion to TSgt when they report to the Premier Band.

Specifically look at this AFI chapter 5.

http://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/af_a1/publication/afi36-2502/afi_36-2502.pdf

Response by LTJG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 20 at 2015 5:07 PM

2015-09-20T17:07:34-04:00

Think everyone covered it. Due to her talent and experience, she entered as a TSgt. The Official Navy Band members are the same in that they enter as an E-6. But by the time they actually promote to E-7, they are pretty much right around the 12 year mark. Would have been nice starting out at E-6 pay, but oh well!! :)

Response by SMSgt Tony Barnes made Sep 20 at 2015 5:48 PM

2015-09-20T17:48:46-04:00

There needs to be a better way. When I see an E-6, I have expectations that they have been developed into that grade...not handed to them as an honorary rank. Don't care if it's band, medical, legal or whatever.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 20 at 2015 11:03 PM

2015-09-20T23:03:29-04:00

I believe that if she decides to change jobs, she will be demoted to a rank more fitting for her TIS at that time.

Response by CMSgt James Nolan made Sep 21 at 2015 12:03 AM

2015-09-21T00:03:20-04:00

I have read many of the comments, some positive, some negative. For some, we find it tough to wrap our heads around this rapid promotion, for some, there is no issue.
I personally, would only raise concern if there were a chance of coming out of the band, and into the traditional world, which I think there is little.
The band is designed to bring a small bit of joy to many who serve in very tough situations, and the only way to recruit people with that specific skill set is to hire at advance grade. Because that specific group is so small, further advancement is limited.
If there are any band members on RP, I would welcome input, but for me, I have no issue with it, as their rank structure impacts my unit, NOT AT ALL, and every time I have had the pleasure of enjoying their performances, I have taken great pleasure in their skills.

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Sep 21 at 2015 12:11 AM

2015-09-21T00:11:45-04:00

Doctors enter the Air Force as Captains, although I have known older physicians with critical specialties entering at even higher ranks.

They are being paid for their technical skill and knowledge - not their military abilities. I would imagine that this applies for musicians as well.

Response by Lt Col Stephen Petzold made Sep 21 at 2015 12:37 AM

2015-09-21T00:37:21-04:00

Some of the bands are handled similar to Dr's and Lawyers. While some bands are filled with Airmen from within the Air Force, others are filled by direct accessions of professional musicians similar to how Dr's and Lawyers are brought on. Only the musicians are not officers, but they get fast enlisted promotions to try to get their pay up to similar levels as other civilian musicians.

Most of the people reading this now are saying they want to get their pay up to that same level fast too!

Response by SrA Matthew Knight made Sep 21 at 2015 12:55 AM

2015-09-21T00:55:07-04:00

No typo, AF band as others have said get promoted automatically to Tech once they make it through. It is to my understanding that she was in competition for American Idol and bowed out herself to join rather than losing so that in and of itself must say something about her singing ability.

I will say this I would personally find it very difficult to actually refer to her as Sgt. Just would feel weird, but then it's no different then than people who join late and are 30+ year old Senior Airman having to be supervised by a 22/23 year old Staff Sergeant. I would probably go nuts.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2015 1:01 AM

2015-09-21T01:01:55-04:00

This video and story both are beyond ridculous. It almost makes me embarassed to be an Airman.

Response by AB Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2015 1:57 AM

2015-09-21T01:57:17-04:00

This is fraud. Her chain of command is presenting her as an experienced NCO when clearly she is not. She's 19, there's no higher level of education there and she certainly isn't giving up a six figure pay check to wear this uniform. Let's be crystal clear, her and her fellow band members did not earn those stripes, they were given as a cheap bonus, maybe for public appearance reasons as well. Either way, when you start digging into their regulatory exemptions and other perks of their job, it becomes increasingly harder to think of them as Airmen at all. Ethics anyone?

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2015 9:55 AM

2015-09-21T09:55:53-04:00

The Navy has many "Direct procurement" programs where someone’s rank is determined by numerous factors. We once had a Senior Chief that was a Police Chief of a small town and the Navy needed more senior Master At Arms. Bottom line it is a system, it was followed and good on her for choosing service to country over the debortuary of Hollywood. I actually look forward to hearing that beautiful voice at events over the years to come. Again congratulations to her and her family. I am absolutely sure her dad is the proudest father on the planet today, I know I would be.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2015 10:25 AM

2015-09-21T10:25:15-04:00

It's standard for the band. One might question why, if we have to shed E-6 slots from areas like aircrew, maintenance, communications, space and missiles, and weather, why we are keeping so many people as members of the band...but that's a different debate.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2015 12:43 PM

2015-09-21T12:43:15-04:00

I pick the wrong AFSC. I had to study, test and have TIG/TIS to even qualify for E-6. SMH......

Response by SMSgt David Zobel made Sep 21 at 2015 2:35 PM

2015-09-21T14:35:45-04:00

It has been this way since I enlisted in 1970. AF bands are an integral part of recruitment, morale, and public relations. I had to struggle to obtain my rank, but whenever I heared a tight and dynamic USAF band, I was just glad they sounded so damned good. They wouldn't be so good if they recruited musicians willing to play for an E-2's salary.

Response by MSgt John Carroll made Sep 21 at 2015 7:31 PM

2015-09-21T19:31:03-04:00

This isn't anything new. USAF Band members are required to be a TSgt or above. I don't know when this policy was started but I learned this in 2001 while TDY to the White House.

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2015 3:11 PM

2015-09-22T15:11:49-04:00

I went through a guy in basic that was part of the singing sergeants group and made E-6 straight out of basic. Only reason they wouldn't let him wear his tech stripes at graduation is because he would have outranked our TI.

Response by SSgt Everett Jones made Sep 22 at 2015 3:17 PM

2015-09-22T15:17:20-04:00

When I think of all the years I spent busting my hump, doing the TDY's no one else would do, taking other peoples deployments because they suddenly couldn't go, the weekends, days off, and holidays I gave up to work for something my wing needed someone for, when all I had to do was join the band? Makes me kind of sick, and at the same time, even more proud of all that I have done. To earn what you have is one of the greatest feelings of all. Someone who has it handed to them without having earned it will never know that feeling of true pride and accomplishment.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2015 3:17 PM

2015-09-22T15:17:50-04:00

What happens if they want to reclass into a new specialty?

Response by Cpl Robert Masi made Sep 22 at 2015 3:20 PM

2015-09-22T15:20:58-04:00

Another example of female auto-promotion

Response by LCpl Nicholas Hines made Sep 22 at 2015 3:36 PM

2015-09-22T15:36:56-04:00

reason number 452 why people talk shit on the Air Force (all jokes excluding PJ & combat controllers)

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Sep 22 at 2015 3:47 PM

2015-09-22T15:47:43-04:00

I'm not pushed either way on this one. When I was at Camp Pendleton in the dark ages, PTSD was about 25 years off in the vocabulary. We had some serious cases which the standard military shrinks couldn't get a grip on. So there was this German doc who obtained US citizenship and was brought into the service as an O-6 to start working on the "lost ones". He really made a difference mostly due to his own research. After a while, he was released to move over to VA where he did more work for a few years before his passing. You just had to put up with his thick accent and interesting takes on the uniform. He came out for blues inspection wearing white pants, bow tie, and a beret.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2015 3:48 PM

2015-09-22T15:48:40-04:00

What a farce.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2015 3:49 PM

2015-09-22T15:49:01-04:00

Wish I could delete so I can stop getting notifications. This is like a sociology project. Most people don't give in to reason and other view points, so why do I even bother?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2015 3:51 PM

2015-09-22T15:51:05-04:00

Is this rank a full TSgt or is it a band rank? I know I'm the Marines they have band specific ranks. And they are given to professional musicians only bit hold no weight outside of the band. Except for the Officers

Response by MSgt Leslie / Buddy Mayo made Sep 22 at 2015 3:51 PM

2015-09-22T15:51:43-04:00

When I was at Bolling A.F.B. And it actually disgusted me that a person in the band was younger than 20 and wearing the rank of an E-6 but being in the Security Forces we would stap a weapon on person of the same age and deploy them to sometimes the ends of the earth and that person was only an A1C. I do not agree anyone should be able to wear the rank unless it had been earned not based on their vocal or musical abilities. If that were the case then take a look at the Medical field and what the do for the rest of us and in my former AFSC s a Security Forces member. If she wears that uniform she should be able to Carry a weapon and stand her watch because she will definitely no be able to sing her way out of an attack on a convoy.

Response by 1st Lt Rick Chaison made Sep 22 at 2015 3:51 PM

2015-09-22T15:51:52-04:00

Throughout my (now retired) career I have seen folks occasionally jump this way, based on scores, available competition, and PFE ratings. So she's good, knows what she's doing, caught a break or two. All good.

Response by Sgt Kevin Curl made Sep 22 at 2015 3:58 PM

2015-09-22T15:58:32-04:00

Wonder why other services give A/F no respect , over abundance of top heavy enlisted ranks !

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2015 3:58 PM

2015-09-22T15:58:46-04:00

Yes, members of AF band come in as a TSGT automatically.

Response by SGT Curtis Earl made Sep 22 at 2015 4:03 PM

2015-09-22T16:03:21-04:00

This is true for all special bands. I thought this was common knowledge.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2015 4:41 PM

2015-09-22T16:41:07-04:00

Wow! I seriously thought this was another Duffelblog post. Cannot wait until they sattire this!

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2015 5:23 PM

2015-09-22T17:23:43-04:00

It's only in the Air Force Band, I've known people be in for 7 years with zero disciplinary actions on their record just put on E-5. Makes me as equally angry!

Response by SGT Patrick Reno made Sep 22 at 2015 5:39 PM

2015-09-22T17:39:05-04:00

What come's around go's around. This is what happens when all us Infantry types pick on the band geeks in high school.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2015 5:41 PM

2015-09-22T17:41:50-04:00

I have a very good friend who is at the Great Lakes Navy Boot camp as we speak and will be an E6 at graduation this coming November.

A little about her: She has music degrees from John Hopkins and Carnegie Mellon. She also has played for the Maryland Symphony Orchestra, Delaware Symphony Orchestra, and Richmond Symphony Orchestra. She also teaches music on the side.

In my opinion E-6 is a huge step down, but she wants to serve in the Navy.

I am very proud of her and plan on attending her graduation.

Response by SSgt Kristian Fugrad made Sep 22 at 2015 6:05 PM

2015-09-22T18:05:00-04:00

I just responded to this article in the Air Force Times as well. As, you can see, she also has a 7 level badge. I took me 3 times to make Staff. This is just so wrong.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2015 6:09 PM

2015-09-22T18:09:31-04:00

I have nothing good to say about this type of promotion. I was in the Army for many years as an Infantryman. You earn a promotion. If there is no room for you to be promoted, then you wait until there is or you go to another MOS and try to get promoted there. I branch transferred to Air Force Special Operations and have the same opinion based on that group of people. You earn promotions. The Spec Ops group is small and promotions are hard to come by - you either want to do the job (in which case rank is secondary) or you don't. At its most basic, a promotion is not given to recognize previous work or behavior but to recognize the capability for greater future contributions to the service. To give this sort of promotion reduces the impact of and respect for all ranks. This is a farce.

Response by SP5 Hank Vandenburgh PhD made Sep 22 at 2015 6:16 PM

2015-09-22T18:16:55-04:00

Years after I got a psychiatric technician license, I was offered to come back as a reserve SGT E5. I had been a SP5 earlier on active duty. This would have applied to people who had no prior service, too. I had a masters degree by then, but this wasn't a factor.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2015 6:47 PM

2015-09-22T18:47:42-04:00

Okay, so are you upset when a doctor off the street gets an automatic promotion to Captain or above? The first Defense Intelligence Agency Director was commissioned in the USAF as a 1 Star (Who also fathered AFOSI)... This is how the band is set up and most crest out at E-7, and many of these musicians have bachelors and masters degrees in their respective art.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2015 6:59 PM

2015-09-22T18:59:27-04:00

Can not be possible there must be a mistake,

Response by SSG Scott Burk made Sep 22 at 2015 6:59 PM

2015-09-22T18:59:27-04:00

Why not let her go through the ranks like any other. If she has a special skillset (singing) then just give her a yearly bonus. They do this for officers in medical all the time.

Response by CPO Andy Carrillo, MS made Sep 22 at 2015 7:00 PM

2015-09-22T19:00:52-04:00

She must be one heck of a singer!

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2015 7:06 PM

2015-09-22T19:06:56-04:00

This story makes the Air Force sound ridiculous. For any service member, who is not in the Air Force and may be stationed on an Air Force base, this story sums up what we already know to be true. The Air Force is ridiculous.

Response by PO1 Rodney Bracey made Sep 22 at 2015 7:50 PM

2015-09-22T19:50:00-04:00

I've met a few "pushbutton" Nuke E-6s. Benefits of rate or MOS. How fast someone gets promoted and or if it's justified had absolutely zero bearing on my career path or goals.

Response by SFC Michael Mcnulty made Sep 22 at 2015 8:09 PM

2015-09-22T20:09:07-04:00

I am not familiar with the Air Force, so my only question is this. Can this individual ever be put in a position of leadership over non band airman?

Response by SGT Brian Maccormack made Sep 22 at 2015 8:15 PM

2015-09-22T20:15:39-04:00

Is this for real? As a soldier I obeyed the commands of anyone with a rank higher than mine, even if they weren't in my chain of command or branch of service! No wonder AF gets the brunt of jokes. SMH.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2015 8:18 PM

2015-09-22T20:18:29-04:00

If the military wants to save money and keep operational... get rid of the bands. Waste of resources.

Response by TSgt Marco McDowell made Sep 22 at 2015 9:07 PM

2015-09-22T21:07:56-04:00

I went to NCOA with a band member who had been in almost 2 years. She freely admitted that she had no idea what everyone else did and was a bit overwhelmed over the experience there. We had a "WTH" moment but we were able to put her rank in a context of her duty. Some MOSs/AFSCs require a measure of experience to go along with rank. There are exceptions were people are fast burners and face it we've all dealt with someone with "just rank" and had no idea what they were doing, but she'd be playing and instrument/singing in a small group for her career. We'd never have to deal with her on the operational side so she was more of a interest story...but it makes me wonder, if promotions were set up like this for me, would I be Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps...or a double whammy and also pull off Chief Master Sergeant of the Air Force. Dreams.

Response by PO2 Corey Ferretti made Sep 22 at 2015 9:37 PM

2015-09-22T21:37:29-04:00

It is what it is. On the music sid eof the military rank is diffrent. In the Navy band I whisk all come as E6 because most have degrees. Shoot I saw a Chief with 3 ribbons and I think six year so service if not less. Again it is because of the job and their requirement. If you want to have a high rank early go sing or play an instrument.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2015 9:44 PM

2015-09-22T21:44:24-04:00

This burns my ass! Rank is earned! 4 months!! Been in 15 years and earned my fuckin stripes! I could see mayyyybe Ssgt but Tsgt!!! SMFH!

Response by SGT John W Lugo made Sep 22 at 2015 9:47 PM

2015-09-22T21:47:07-04:00

That's pretty crazy to have such rank just because you can sing, I can color inside of the lines does that qualify for General.

Response by Maj William Gambrell made Sep 22 at 2015 9:47 PM

2015-09-22T21:47:58-04:00

The Air Force promotion system has been broke for a long time. As long as they continue to decide to promote across AFSC at the same percentage, there will always be problems with losing the best. They need to figure out a way of cross training AFSCs to promote the elite to move forward as leaders.

Response by SSgt Carl B. made Sep 22 at 2015 9:48 PM

2015-09-22T21:48:30-04:00

Bull %#&$, another example of the military and country going the wrong direction

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2015 9:51 PM

2015-09-22T21:51:15-04:00

I read the AFI and disagree with it. They should not be promoted automatically to E-6 for being in the "AF Premier Band". However, I could see them being promoted to E-4 and perhaps some sort of bonus to keep them. Automatically promoting them like that, to me, degrades the rank. I have seen many Airman who have great talent in their jobs and work just as hard. Yet, they are not automatically promoted like that. I just think that there is a better way of doing it.

Response by MSgt Robert Pellam made Sep 22 at 2015 9:58 PM

2015-09-22T21:58:43-04:00

I am late to this party and most everyone has pretty much summed up my thoughts to good points but here is my 2 cents. There is a rift between Air Force leadership and Airmen. It is growing slowly, but surly. Incompetent leaders are allowed to flourish while good leaders are disregarded and pushed aside.

What I see here is Air Force leadership, on a time when the force is drawing down, promote someone because of a special duty. I honestly don't give two craps about what rank she is, what I care about is when the military is cutting budgets, cutting benefits, and cutting back people. Why is there a band? Is this the only band? That is rhetorical as I know there is more than one. I served 21 years and saw tops in blues once, while I was deployed. I may be in the minority here but I could have gone without them. Someone do a cost comparison to a civilian band being sent over seas to sending a Military band.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against the different bands nor am I a hater of music. Just in a time of draw downs, I would rather have one less band and one more mechanic/Aircrew/Hospital worker/security forces/cook/admin/transportation person.

The way I see it, this effects the Air Force moral of every airmen. Some think this is great, others are now upset over an unfair promotion. I see the Air Force failing at cost budgeting again. Like they have done year after year. And that rift between Leadership and Airmen keeps getting bigger. Sorry but I think this is just flipping stupid.

Response by PVT Andrew Burd made Sep 22 at 2015 10:00 PM

2015-09-22T22:00:18-04:00

maybe she just passed the walking test in record time...

who gives a shit. focus on your own M.O.S. and don't worry about what a *BAND MEMBER* is ranked. This is about PAY GRADE.

Response by PVT Andrew Burd made Sep 22 at 2015 10:04 PM

2015-09-22T22:04:54-04:00

Let's all not for get 1SGT Katrina Moerk receiving an ARCOM for trolling online chat rooms...

This is not the military I was in 23 years ago.... :P back then, a day without a constant stream of profanity and vulgarity was like a day without sunshine. Back then, cadence was filthy when nobody was looking, and MREs were Meals Refused by Ethiopians...

Response by Sgt Bob Blevins made Sep 22 at 2015 10:40 PM

2015-09-22T22:40:34-04:00

Look at Elvis Presely. I believe in two years he was a E-6, Staff Sergeant.

Response by SPC Chelsea Fernandez made Sep 22 at 2015 10:56 PM

2015-09-22T22:56:34-04:00

Suspect..... something not right

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2015 11:44 PM

2015-09-22T23:44:19-04:00

LOL and there were those complaining about A1C getting promoted 2 ranks for his heroic act. More to chip away on the honor of the armed forces of this great nation. When can this stop? So know it does not matter the technical knowledge and doing something brave, but do something really stupid, like, I don't know, desert your post, or bring a look alike bomb to school, or "sing beautifully" and you get first class treatment and rules and regulations overlooked.

Response by SPC Eric Harrell made Sep 23 at 2015 12:11 AM

2015-09-23T00:11:50-04:00

Band members get rank faster than any other mos and because their tests are on music and theoretical speaking they could have been practicing for years. Also it had been common practice since major Glenn Miller for musicians to be ranked as NCO right out of basic. There was for a time the same practice for pilots with active licensing.

Response by PO1 Michael G. made Sep 23 at 2015 12:33 AM

2015-09-23T00:33:27-04:00

It is my understanding that it's the same/similar in the Navy, that making MU1 is very quick. However, I have also been given to understand that making Chief is next to impossible. This is a small rate for very talented and skilled professionals; many band members play multiple instruments and/or are very accomplished vocalists. And they ought to be; almost every military scenario where music is played by the band is one of some gravity. The band had better know what there doing. Because of that, as others have alluded to: higher pay is what it takes to entice the right group of people to join

Response by SPC Gabe Berdugo made Sep 23 at 2015 12:37 AM

2015-09-23T00:37:43-04:00

Rank is something that is earned by time and experience. It's a minimum TIS of 6 months to get to E-2. If you get to be an E-6 straight out of basic, where is the prestige of being an NCO? So she's musically talented and a spot for a musician's job just happened to be open? I've seen a lot of musically talented soldiers who raised unit morale from within. Most of them are lower enlisted and hold an MOS that actually pulls its weight for the military. They need a special MOS solely for musicians? Okay, I can understand that. But how the hell do you climb up in rank so damn fast without doing any real work? If and when you re-class, how would that workout?

Response by SMSgt Vicente M. Velasquez made Sep 23 at 2015 12:50 AM

2015-09-23T00:50:47-04:00

Thought I got a pretty good deal when I came in, should of been a musician!!! Think TSgt is a bit much, SrA would have sufficed.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 12:57 AM

2015-09-23T00:57:35-04:00

If people do their research they can have a better understanding of the requirements to be in the actual service band (not a regional band or drum corp).

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 1:04 AM

2015-09-23T01:04:03-04:00

Unfortunately that's the only way the military can lead and keep talented people. Same thing applies to the qualified medics - they go direct commission and put MAJ, LTC or COL depending on their medical (not combat) experience. Bunch of them never got deployed (which is not the point). That way we have adequate and fully qualified medical personnel as well as musicians. We want to be the best. And the pay grade is tied to to the respective rank. So if you don't like it, oh well.....Just leave them alone and do what you have signed up for......

Response by PO2 Luis Canales made Sep 23 at 2015 1:14 AM

2015-09-23T01:14:15-04:00

I believe the same holds true in the Navy. Navy Band members leave basic and are E-6 withing a ridiculously short time

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 2:05 AM

2015-09-23T02:05:48-04:00

She didn't earn this ... Please tell me this is a joke ..

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 2:34 AM

2015-09-23T02:34:00-04:00

A little more explanation:

Each branch of the United States military—Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, and Coast Guard—employs several full-time music ensembles. There are two types of groups:

1) Premier bands. Ensemble members have a guaranteed post, without the worry about being transferred elsewhere. Hired musicians are immediately awarded the rank of E6 (rankings range from E1 to E9—higher is better). The 10 premier military bands are housed in Washington DC or attached to the service’s Academy: Annapolis, West Point, Colorado Springs, etc.

2) Regional bands. While some members stay with the same group for years, reassignment to other ensembles occurs due to manning shortages or openings in overseas bands. Entering status is determined by educational background, as is the case with most everyone else in the enlisted force. Musicians with college credit often begin at the rank of E3. Regional groups are housed on bases across the country and abroad.

The term band here does not mean wind band or marching band. In fact, most of these groups are umbrella organizations consisting of several performing ensembles. For example, the US Army Field Band consists of a concert band, chorus, big band, and pop combo. The US Air Force Band oversees six entities, including a string orchestra, chorus (cleverly entitled Singing Sergeants), brass band, and big band. Large ensemble members are often assigned to chamber groups as well, spanning the gamut of styles and instrumentations: Dixieland, baroque, Celtic, rock, pop, country/western, brass/woodwind quintets, etc.

Source: http://www.savvymusician.com/blog/2010/02/military-jobs/

The Working Musician: Military Jobs | the savvy musican blog | The Savvy Musician Blog

With the possible exception of saxophonists and euphoniumists, few musicians dream of a military career. Yet this path can provide a dependable income, solid benefits, and varied opportunities. “This is a good four year job for just about anyone. It can be a GREAT 20+ year job for many,” explains Michael Mench, Commander of the US Air Force Band of Flight. A special thanks to Commander Mench, who provided some of the information presented in...

Response by SSgt Brian Weston made Sep 23 at 2015 2:42 AM

2015-09-23T02:42:30-04:00

Ridiculous. There are time in grade/rank requirements.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 5:00 AM

2015-09-23T05:00:37-04:00

It's possible. Not sure how the USAF handles their specialty bands and band members. But I know from experience in the Army that certain specialty bands automatically promote you to E-6 when you complete your training. The Old Guard Fife and Drum Corps is a perfect example of this. We has a couple of teenage SSG's in the FDC when I was there.

Response by Cpl Larry Allard made Sep 23 at 2015 5:53 AM

2015-09-23T05:53:47-04:00

One of the issues here is simply that lower enlisted personnel won't know the difference between an E-6 the put in the time and earned that rank and someone like this who was given her rank because she has a certain skill set. They'll just see rank. It's a very flawed system.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 6:22 AM

2015-09-23T06:22:09-04:00

Well ladies and gentlemen we have all picked the wrong AFSC

Response by MSgt Wayne Morris made Sep 23 at 2015 6:34 AM

2015-09-23T06:34:24-04:00

Many years ago I had a Social Actions course at Bolling and their was a Chief from the AF Band attending. We got to talking and he stated that those selected for the AF Band were automatically jumped to TSgt/E6. I don't know if this is the case with this woman as the band she is performing with was not identified in the article (that I saw). The Chief did mention that most members had a masters in music and such. Dating myself but this was around the time Throm Thurman made the comment that there was something wrong when we were paying a trumpet player more to re-enlist than a ICBM technician.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Sep 23 at 2015 6:35 AM

2015-09-23T06:35:51-04:00

It really doesn't matter. She's in the Air Force band. She'll likely never be in a position to give an order that actually matters...

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 7:19 AM

2015-09-23T07:19:56-04:00

When I was in boot 8 years ago, I had a shipmate that was guaranteed E6 after time in each rank. He was in the navy band. He said he got that spot because he it was such a prestigious position in DC and he beat out 50 other musicians. At the time I was wowed and congratulated him, but now after attaining the rank though work I can see how much leadership he must lack. I hope not. Definitely needs to reevaluated. Seems like rank is given out because it will look good.

Response by Cpl Frank Mason made Sep 23 at 2015 8:19 AM

2015-09-23T08:19:39-04:00

Exactly why the other branches laugh at the Air Force... They are NOT a military organization....

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 8:34 AM

2015-09-23T08:34:35-04:00

In the Air Guard I have seen people make E7 in min time only because the manning document showed they were in an E7 slot. Most of these positions are in career fields that rarely deploy while those that do seem to never see rank above E5 or E6 after a full career. For this person to see the Tech after only four month when the person that saved lives in France only got promoted to SSG is sickening. We can see where priorities lie.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 8:55 AM

2015-09-23T08:55:24-04:00

As a Recruiter for 12 years and working with many AF Bands, many are College Grads also but do not get there bars. These are highly educated and talented people that do a great service for the AF!!

Response by Maj Walter Kilar made Sep 23 at 2015 9:00 AM

2015-09-23T09:00:31-04:00

Although I am not a fan of ceremonial units and their automatic promotion process, I am okay with it because it does not affect me. I would imagine that if a premier band member were to cross train into the regular Air Force, the member would be demoted and would be treated like a regular member. If it does bother you, then go apply to a premiere band. If you have ever been harassed by a premiere band member on the flight line, in your office, or at a deployed location, you can easily find the member's supervisor and get the problem fixed--these members are held to high standards due to their visibility. I doubt anyone really has any problem with these folks, so leave them to their little world with higher rank and glittery uniforms. It does not affect anyone else and their promotions.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 9:01 AM

2015-09-23T09:01:12-04:00

I'm in the Army Band Field. I know in the Special Bands like Pershing's Own or the USMA Band your brought in as an E-6. They offer E-6 to get quality musicians. They test you periodically if your maintaining the standard. If not your transferred to a regular band. If that happens you go back to E-4.

Response by SGT Roberto Mendoza-Diaz made Sep 23 at 2015 9:08 AM

2015-09-23T09:08:32-04:00

During my last tour in South Korea, my 1SG decided to make me Platoon Sergeant and NCOIC of the Orderly Room at the same time when I was still an Specialist (E-4). She told me that it doesn't matter what rank you have to lead. You could be Sergeant and be worst as a leader than a Specialist.

Response by MSgt Billy McDonough made Sep 23 at 2015 9:21 AM

2015-09-23T09:21:24-04:00

I personally do not believe this person is 19. E-6 with max 2 years TIS is impossible.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 9:50 AM

2015-09-23T09:50:52-04:00

The Navy has a program called stripes for skills and I personally know a Sheriff that joined as an MA (Master At arms) as an E-5 and did not have to even do Basic Training. I am now a recruiter though my AFSC is Security Forces and just sent a nurse to an Army recruiter and they put her in as a Captain with no OTS, Just a two week school to explain the basics. All branches make exceptions for different skill sets. Most commonly professional officer accessions such as medical, JAG, Chaplains etc.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 10:16 AM

2015-09-23T10:16:03-04:00

I've got a lot to say about this. But I won't, I'll just say this. What is the government doing? We have there military band members that to me are like people mooching on welfare. They get rank and pay based on experience like the girl in this article and the rest of us have to actually work out ass's off! The members of the military band are not military service members in my eyes, they are a waste of precious government money that the real members of the military should be getting.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 10:54 AM

2015-09-23T10:54:16-04:00

As others have said: pay recruits talent. If the Air Force, or any service for that matter, started musicians at junior enlisted rates they would attract junior talent. Have you ever watched one of these shows while deployed or while overseas? It can be a real morale booster to see talented people performing while wearing the uniform. If the military started folks out at the base, then the bands would sound and look like a high school talent show because that is the level of talent they would be able to recruit. Would a lousy performance boost your morale or make you just feel worse? Worse I am sure. Plus, it would just make the military services look like a bunch of amateurs. Imagine the band sounding like a bunch of middle schoolers during a formal cermony like a change of command or a parade. How do you think their terrible performance would reflect on you in the eyes of the public? Professional performers cost money because they attract attention and serve as a face of the organization. I believe the military is right to offer them special pay rates just as we do for medics, nurses, doctors, lawyers, and other specialty professions. Just feel proud of your own accomplishments and drive on.

Response by LTC Joseph Gross made Sep 23 at 2015 10:56 AM

2015-09-23T10:56:29-04:00

Nothing new and not unique to the air force. In the army we called it Stripes for Skills. Here's the deal though. She will likely never be promoted. Think of her as a warrant officer. She brings a special skill that most don't have.

Response by LTC Joseph Gross made Sep 23 at 2015 10:57 AM

2015-09-23T10:57:33-04:00

Another thought. I know a cardiologist who entered the service as a colonel. The guy couldn't even salute!

Response by PO1 Randy Feldmann made Sep 23 at 2015 11:18 AM

2015-09-23T11:18:30-04:00

Why does singing in a band deserve higher pay than the person serving on a war zone?

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 11:33 AM

2015-09-23T11:33:28-04:00

Why do we even need band members? When was the last time we march off to Battle. More exact when was the last time the CHAIRFORCE marched off to battle? lmaoo

Response by PO3 Wayne Cook made Sep 23 at 2015 11:43 AM

2015-09-23T11:43:44-04:00

I dont think its possible. I was in the Navy, and there is no way you would make E-6 that soon

Response by GySgt Steve Ruf made Sep 23 at 2015 11:48 AM

2015-09-23T11:48:07-04:00

I agree that this is ridiculous. At 19 years old a young man or woman is not mature enough to take on the responsibility of leader others. Then again she is in the Air Force. Nobody really expects much out of the Air Force anyways. The TSA and the boy scouts are more of a military organization.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 12:16 PM

2015-09-23T12:16:55-04:00

Yeah she's in the national AIR FORCE BAND. My buddy in basic is also in the national Air Force band (he however has his masters degree) and once out of basic he sewed on E-6.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 12:49 PM

2015-09-23T12:49:13-04:00

The band is a whole different beast, while I doubt she has an advanced degree. It is totally possible she has spent a majority of her training as a musician and was probably a professional musician or at least a very accomplished musician which is totally possible. I do believe that band resources could be better allocated to units more deserving. I have known several band members all decent people in their own regard but many have a "roock star " mentality and many don't believe or accept they are in indeed in service to their country.

Response by Cpl Greg Berman made Sep 23 at 2015 12:51 PM

2015-09-23T12:51:27-04:00

The old saying " It not what you know but who you blow " sure comes to mind.

Response by SMSgt Thor Merich made Sep 23 at 2015 1:14 PM

2015-09-23T13:14:10-04:00

When I was in the Army (many moons ago), Army Band members promoted quickly also and actually began their Army careers as Sp4's. In Germany, I was in a Intel unit (ASA) and found that many of the Intel guys had double waivers (TIG/TIS) and made E-5 in less than 2 years. In the AF, I knew a guy that went from SSgt (E-5) to MSgt (E-7) in two years because he was in a "critical" career field. It seems the be the way things are for some folks. I highly doubt this newly minted TSgt is in charge of anything or anyone except her singing.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 1:21 PM

2015-09-23T13:21:19-04:00

So, I don't have time to read all the comments in this thread and there's a reasonable chance somebody else has made the following statements already but here it goes, anyway.

I am a Warrant Officer Bandmaster in the Army. That means I command an Army Band: regular, everyday, Army Band assigned to a Division. I have made it my business to know as much about military music in all the services as I can so I can speak with relative authority on this subject.

While many of you may not agree with what I'm about to describe, it remains the truth and I'm posting it simply for your collective information.

Across all services - Army, Navy, Marine Corps and Air Force - there are regular bands that support training commands, major commands, Divisions, etc. These bands are staffed by dedicated musicians who work very hard to not only be the best musician they can be but also the best Soldier, Sailor, Marine and Airman. They go through the same initial training as everyone else and the same enlisted professional development training. They get their enlisted promotions on a similar timeframe to everyone else.

Additionally, each service maintains at least one "special band" or "premier band". These bands are typically based in Washington, D.C. but also support the needs of the service academies in West Point, Annapolis, and Colorado Springs. The Army has four special bands - The USMA Band, The US Army Band "Pershing's Own", the US Army Field Band, and the Old Guard Fife and Drum Corps. The Navy has two - the US Navy Band and the Naval Academy Band. The Air Force, two as well - the USAF Band and the Academy band. The Marines also have two - The President's Own Marine Band and the Commandant's Own Marine Corps Drum and Bugle Corps.

These special bands have very specific and special ceremonial or outreach missions, including supporting Arlington National Cemetery, The White House, and other ceremonial missions in the National Capital Region, as well as touring the Nation and the world spreading goodwill and the message of our military services. In order to attract the highest level of musicians in these organizations they must be able to pay them a salary about equal to what they could make in the civilian sector. The only way to do this is by awarding them the starting rank of E-6. Many of these Soldiers, Sailors, Marines and Airmen stay at the grade of E-6 for at least as many years as an average servicemember would take to achieve it in the first place.

Is this the ideal system? Perhaps not, but the way military pay is structured, it's currently the only system.

Response by PO3 Andy Hodgen made Sep 23 at 2015 1:35 PM

2015-09-23T13:35:48-04:00

I spent 6 years in the Navy back during Desert Storm as an electronics tech. and the tough thing about the military and the pay grades is they are all treated the same. I have a problem with this is due to the nature of the job, always have. I just don't think that someone who sings or plays the flute should be given the same base pay as someone who has a much more physically demanding job. Or has to dodge bullets on a daily basis. I know there are the added hazardous duty pays involved and all that, just saying the BASE pay, ect... I know there may be some flack about my statement, after all, I was only an ekectronics tech., but I had more then 2 years of Navy schooling for my cert. My rating was like 113 % staffed also, so promotions were few and far between when I was in. I mean if I was like a mechanic, sweatin' my ass off, bustin' my back all day every day, I'd be pretty pissed about that kind of promotion policy.

Response by CPO Randy Francis made Sep 23 at 2015 1:52 PM

2015-09-23T13:52:18-04:00

Maybe she has a really good golf game.

Response by SPC Greg Osler made Sep 23 at 2015 1:58 PM

2015-09-23T13:58:06-04:00

How is this any different than college kids coming out at a officer level. Here is my thoughts. ROTC should require mandatory basic training and PLDC during the last 3 years of the program. Maybe they would have a better appreciation and understanding of the subordinates underneath them.

Response by SSG Gene Carroll SR. made Sep 23 at 2015 3:48 PM

2015-09-23T15:48:41-04:00

I think if you are doing a great job at what you are doing you deserve all the promotion you earn. some officers move even more faster, all in who they know in higher ranks. God Bless her she is serving our nation is she not.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 4:56 PM

2015-09-23T16:56:32-04:00

We should keep the rank structure the same and use special pays to compensate. i understand the theory behind paying them more (don't agree with it), but just pay them more without giving them the rank. The rank is not a symbol of how much you get paid, it's much more than that.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 5:05 PM

2015-09-23T17:05:10-04:00

Personally, I don't care. The Army Band is the same way. Why don't I care? Because they will always be in the rear with the gear. They will never be giving me orders in the field, they will never influence the outcome of a battle. Their job is MWR. More n power to her.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 5:05 PM

2015-09-23T17:05:26-04:00

So this is why we have higher ranks starting at 1 year TIS on the pay charts. Just kidding.

Response by MAJ Ronnie Reams made Sep 23 at 2015 5:20 PM

2015-09-23T17:20:38-04:00

Don't think they are band stripes as they look like regular stripes. Marine Bandsmen have a harp in place of the crossed rifles on their stripes and Army uses the old fashioned point down stripes for their bandsmen.

Response by PFC Aaron Knapp made Sep 23 at 2015 5:25 PM

2015-09-23T17:25:29-04:00

Is this any different than giving a college graduate OCS and they become an Officer and a leader right out of OCS? I understand peoples thoughts on the NCO thing but I think this discussion would have been moot if she was an Officer Candidate School Grad with a specialty MOS. I think the idea here is they probably wouldn't have gotten her for the group (she would have gone on to American Idol) so they give her the pay grade as an added bonus. Since she is in the group she isn't in charge of anything but morale so I think its considered different than say a Combat arms job where your dealing in lives and not musical notes. Just a thought....

Response by SSgt Nicholas Clisby made Sep 23 at 2015 5:59 PM

2015-09-23T17:59:33-04:00

It's not like this is new......they've been doing this for quite some time now.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 6:37 PM

2015-09-23T18:37:06-04:00

We need not to be concerned with how, why or when other service members get promoted. We need to focus on doing what's right and what is required to advance our own careers and that of those who depend on our guidance, training and mentoring. We need to realize that we are Soldiers, Marines, Sailors, Airmen, Warriors all and we have a duty and a commitment. That the task at hand, the mission is more important than the ranks or the compensation or recognition. The military service is not just a job, is a Way of Life.

Response by SSG Ray Petersen made Sep 23 at 2015 7:27 PM

2015-09-23T19:27:35-04:00

Personally, this is unacceptable. Promotion is earned not given regardless of where you are.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 8:26 PM

2015-09-23T20:26:16-04:00

The Air Force Band has it's own promotion criteria.

"...5.4.1. Due to the highly specialized nature of positions in the USAF Band, it conducts a separate promotion process based on internal unit vacancies. Promotion to TSgt is effective upon the day the member first reports for duty with The USAF Band and requires the approval of the promotion authority or its designated representative. There are no TIS or TIG requirements..."

The complete promition criteria is spelled out in this document pages 57 - 62:

http://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/af_a1/publication/afi36-2502/afi36-2502.pdf

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 8:59 PM

2015-09-23T20:59:46-04:00

Everything is contentious these days. Even asking questions get thumbs down while we get Obama threads as if Obama is not getting enough attention. Bush gets more positives in spite of liberals attempts to marginalize, same with Coulter..

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 9:03 PM

2015-09-23T21:03:49-04:00

I do not believe this is a new concept for the Air Force Band, rather the normal course of business for them. They are trying to pull from a very small group of qualified individuals who would, in the civilian world, expect this level of compensation for their skill.

Response by PFC Michael Crosswhite made Sep 23 at 2015 9:06 PM

2015-09-23T21:06:38-04:00

If it were an MOS that required front line duty, she wouldn't be ready for that rank, but she is good at what she does in her MOS and that's where promotion comes into play for her I'm sure. The fact that she turned down the opportunity of American Idol to serve says a lot about her character and on that note, I have nothing negative to say at all. I say congratulations and job well done.

Response by CW5 Joe Tygart made Sep 23 at 2015 9:14 PM

2015-09-23T21:14:22-04:00

Hey Boys & Girls, this is the new evolving ever changing, trans-gender, fully flexible, all accommodating military. This aint your daddy's Army Air Corp. All branches have their own agenda and special incentives to satisfy those needs. Like SGT Barnes said: There is the way things outta be, and then, there is the way things are... Never heard of this lady, but I remember Elvis Presley. With the news of Elvis' forthcoming induction, the Navy and the Air Force offered bids for his services - the Navy offering to create a specially trained ''Elvis Presley Company'' and the Air Force thinking it would be good for him to tour their recruiting centers. Elvis turned down their offers, not wanting any special treatment. Elvis was going to serve like a regular G.I. - PVT- 1.... (Anyway, just noted, this story is from the times.) Credible? Hooah.....

Response by MAJ Patrick Confer made Sep 23 at 2015 9:16 PM

2015-09-23T21:16:51-04:00

1. She is going into the air force so she is special. 2. She can sing so she is special. 3. She will have more bronze stars for 90 day deployments to hell holes like major air bases, never going to shit holes to entertaine the fighters (but if she did she'd be a shoe in for a ph), than any 11b. But hey her mission is top priority. Can't get a medavac or a flight to start mid tour...but she is coming to a major safe base for you

Response by CWO4 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 9:49 PM

2015-09-23T21:49:28-04:00

I'm not mad at her. Special talent requires special incentive to recruit them. The Navy brings morticians in as E6s, and may even do the same for some musicians. If she were put into a job with an expectation that she would perform as an E6 from a leadership perspective it would be unfair to her and those she was charged to lead, but that won't happen because she is a uniquely talented musician.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 9:51 PM

2015-09-23T21:51:34-04:00

Sure, but the army cannot release promotion board results for at least three months.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 10:02 PM

2015-09-23T22:02:44-04:00

It is standard for the Army Band and the Fife and Drum Corp also

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 10:03 PM

2015-09-23T22:03:10-04:00

The only thing she did to merit wearing the rank of a Non-Commissioned Officer was to win an audition. I'm guessing that the USAF didn't make her cram in BMT, ALS, and NCOA in those four months. I also think that Technical Training probably consisted of vocal lessons and stage presence.
This promotion is likely contingent on her remaining in the AFSC for the duration of her career. It seems unlikely that they'd let her retrain into, say, crew chief as an E-6 until she had enough TIS to actually wear the rank in the real Air Force.

While I do believe that this is the standard for the USAF Band members, I think that most of us can agree that it also belittles the time, sacrifice, and efforts put forth by those that spent YEARS earning that rank. When we reward individuals with rank on the basis of sheer talent before their career has barely begun, it devalues the rank.

Response by SSgt Ed Lewandowski made Sep 23 at 2015 10:31 PM

2015-09-23T22:31:43-04:00

thats you new tops in blue mwr smaller band easier to move and transport they are country band

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 10:43 PM

2015-09-23T22:43:11-04:00

Rank implies experience and knowledge. If you need special experience then by all means establish an incentive program. But to give rank with the global expectation that they have the experience and knowledge to go along with it is an isult to those who have earned it.

Response by AB Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 11:18 PM

2015-09-23T23:18:08-04:00

Let’s put a different spin on this.

From the reg:

“Special enlisted promotion authority is granted only for band members assigned to Premier Bands because:”

5.2.1. Recruiting fully qualified professional musicians saves training costs and time.

“Fully qualified professional musicians.” What exactly makes a fully qualified professional musician? And I’m being serious now. Is there a certification process or even documented experience requirements? What exactly qualifies a nineteen-year-old TSgt as a “fully qualified professional musician” other than some people liked her voice at an audition.

5.2.2. Recruiting and retaining fully qualified professional musicians to Premier Bands
requires an incentive.

By incentive, I can’t think of what the incentive would be other than a monetary one. Anyway, there are plenty of other incentive programs out there. We have jump pay, flight pay, dive pay, and so on. Instead of devaluing rank by using it as an incentive exclusively, why not just have band pay.

5.2.3. Members are deferred from rotational PCS moves and must compete for promotion to internal vacancies rather than external quotas.

Last one doesn’t have anything to do with awarding E-6 right out of basic, as far as I can tell. Kind of sounds like how things work in the Guard and Reserves though.

Thoughts?

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 11:50 PM

2015-09-23T23:50:58-04:00

She's a part of the premier band in DC. They are automatically brought in as E-6. Regional bands (All other bands) are brought in (generally) as E-3, because the majority of us come in already having a degree in our field. TSgt. Quintello was not step promoted or anything, she was hired directly in as a E-6. The band field is different in that we hold auditions and personnel are interviewed, tested and hired vs the mass majority of the Air Force.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 11:51 PM

2015-09-23T23:51:56-04:00

All I see is that this E-6 isn't wearing a cover and is clearly outside

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2015 11:54 PM

2015-09-23T23:54:19-04:00

In the picture this E-6 is clearly outside and isn't wearing a cover but instead wearing earrings

Response by LTC David Tiedemann made Sep 23 at 2015 11:55 PM

2015-09-23T23:55:11-04:00

Looks like all of the services recruit their special bands and assess them as E-6s. They all serve only in the DC area only in that unit.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 24 at 2015 12:25 AM

2015-09-24T00:25:48-04:00

And the DoD wonders why so many young Americans do not want to join... The military in its entirety seems to be going down hill.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 24 at 2015 12:29 AM

2015-09-24T00:29:06-04:00

I'm sorry what is the issue here? What if she is fully capable of being a NCO. I have a Soldier who was a SPC doing the work of an E-6. So now she is a CPL who I am looking to send to the board. Why don't we stop trying to get upset about this and try to mentor and lead our young Service Members, this is an unessary post. If you are upset about this then FIX IT.

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 24 at 2015 12:33 AM

2015-09-24T00:33:39-04:00

I went to basic with a guy who was entering into the Army Band (reserves) & he automatically came in as an E4 JUST because he signed for an Army band MOS. I don't believe that's right under any circumstance & by no means should you be promoted to an E6 after 4 months.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 24 at 2015 2:04 AM

2015-09-24T02:04:50-04:00

When I went to boot camp in 1999, we had a recruit in our division who was going to be an E-6 upon graduation. He was selected in an audition for the presidential Navy band. I would assume that this is normal for the skill level you need to be selected for such an honor.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 24 at 2015 2:39 AM

2015-09-24T02:39:59-04:00

Leaders especially NCOS are expecting to possess certain generic skills. Skills that one must master regardless of job. Jr. Enlisted problems are usually similar and leaders should be equipped to address them properly. That being said, regardless of age, time and anything else if this service member has earned it, then I too Congratulate her without bias. If the day should come that her circumstances change and she is required to lead subordinates into adversity I pray that she is not found lacking.

Response by PO2 Travis Burgess made Sep 24 at 2015 2:46 AM

2015-09-24T02:46:20-04:00

I remember meeting an e6 in the army who had only been in 6months. He said he was a musician and in the army band. This was in 1990 when I was going to RT school as a sailor at Ft. Sam Houston with the Army.

Response by SGT Tommy Silvas made Sep 24 at 2015 3:39 AM

2015-09-24T03:39:36-04:00

All I can say is wow and shake my head in disbelief

Response by Amn Allen Burks made Sep 24 at 2015 3:53 AM

2015-09-24T03:53:12-04:00

She's band flight!!! She chose her job!!! Get hard, so she can play the instruments for you or don't!!! Security forces H.U.A!!!

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 24 at 2015 5:35 AM

2015-09-24T05:35:17-04:00

So glad she did in 4 months what took me 10 years, not because of a failure on my end but due to "quota limitations" on their end. 0% advancement test after test... I should of just been taking singing lessons.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 24 at 2015 6:07 AM

2015-09-24T06:07:14-04:00

Coast Guard is the same way....join the band, automatic E6

Response by PO1 John Miller made Sep 24 at 2015 6:56 AM

2015-09-24T06:56:42-04:00

It may suck but that's how the Air Force does it:
http://www.usafband.af.mil/questions/topic.asp?id=954

Also note that the other service's bands directly promote to E6 based on the specific band.

US Navy - http://www.usafband.af.mil/questions/topic.asp?id=954 (only for members of The United States Navy Band Washington D.C.). Members of the fleet bands progress through the chain as would anyone else.

US Marine Corps - Members of The President's Own come in as E6. Also of interest is that they do not attend basic training. http://www.marineband.marines.mil/Portals/175/Docs/Career%20Information/Career%20Info_15_booklet.pdf I've talked with a few Marines who do not consider President's Own "real Marines." In fact members do not wear "crossed rifles" on their rank insignia and if I'm not mistaken also do not wear the EGA (Marines correct me if I'm wrong).
Members of the field bands do attend boot camp. I've talked to these Marines and they told me directly that they do not consider President's Own brother Marines.

US Army - members are promoted to E6 after 4 months of service.
http://www.usarmyband.com/vacancies/current-openings.html

The United States Air Force Band - FAQ Topic

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 24 at 2015 7:35 AM

2015-09-24T07:35:41-04:00

Why give these people NCO status because of musical talent? Why not just give them a huge bonus for entering the service? When I made E-5 I had 7 years in the service, the promotion rate was 18%, the highest it had ever been. So many people I knew back then were getting booted for high year tenure, but being aircrew and they are only promoting 2 out of 40 people every year, it was very easy to be in that shit out of luck boat. They handed you a list of TO's to read and study. 80 percent of the test was on other airframes. So my point is you busted your ass to get promoted, you learned from your NCO's and SNCO's and Officers on how to be a supervisor. Yet, this gal can sing, here you go, one rank below SNCO with NO supervisor skills what so ever. Its a slap in the face of the rank system. Even an enlisted person that is going to OCS as an officer isn't paid E-6 pay, they only get E-5 pay. So, musical talent > Experience, Wisdom, Skill, Education, etc...

Response by CW2 Scott Quaife made Sep 24 at 2015 7:43 AM

2015-09-24T07:43:45-04:00

It is not for anyone to judge or try to justify why this happens. All branches and service jobs have predetermined criteria. For example Dr's , upon graduation are immediately 0-3 entering service, or Army Warrant Pilots, which could be as young as 18 , after about 6 weeks of WOCS, are officially WO1's. I knew the second youngest WO1 pilot , he was 19. What doesn't make sense to the majority , makes perfect sense to the minority. As I have seen posted already if we took the time to read the regs then it would be clear to all why this 19 year old made E-6 in the AF Band.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 24 at 2015 8:00 AM

2015-09-24T08:00:38-04:00

Join the band it will take u there

Response by PFC David McLeod made Sep 24 at 2015 8:09 AM

2015-09-24T08:09:35-04:00

Air Farce, nuff said.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 24 at 2015 9:09 AM

2015-09-24T09:09:47-04:00

SrA Ben Pommer, I do not know anything about the USAF Band's, but I can tell you from personal experience when I was at my first duty station, Fort Myer, VA., the Fife & Drum Corps put up flyers all over post announcing tryouts for bugle players (Cornet/Trumpet). The flyer guaranteed if accepted into the Corps you could expect to be a SSG (E-6) within approximately 6 mos. if memory serves. I was a young Specialist (E-4) at the time and if I could I would have jumped at the opportunity.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 24 at 2015 10:18 AM

2015-09-24T10:18:32-04:00

Well said. Having served in both the Army and now the Air Force, I could not agree more.

Response by SSgt Donnavon Smith made Sep 24 at 2015 11:55 AM

2015-09-24T11:55:16-04:00

Maybe it is time to go back to something like this

Response by PO3 John Raymond made Sep 24 at 2015 12:17 PM

2015-09-24T12:17:33-04:00

I'm pretty offended by the people bitching about rapid promotions. I went in the Navy as a nuke. Pretty much everyone I knew was E5 out of nuke school...and though I ended up getting a medical discharge...I'm sure plenty of them made their E6 by the end of prototype...which if their timing worked out right would easily have made it just as fast or faster. We all worked our asses off getting through school. Every one of them deserved at least that. Most of them left after their initial 6 because it was more profitable to take that hard work and double or triple their pay in the private sector. Anyone that has a problem with people that can qualify for a fast progression because of skills, education, need of the service or whatever can all pretty much go fuck themselves.

Response by SGT Dylan Epp made Sep 24 at 2015 12:54 PM

2015-09-24T12:54:15-04:00

Thats a joke. Only in the airforce!

Response by SSG John Erny made Sep 24 at 2015 12:58 PM

2015-09-24T12:58:36-04:00

With some rare MOS's that are hard to fill or it is cheaper to retain people then train new ones is likely the reason the powers that be allow fast track promotions. Back in the day you had technical ranks that got the same pay as there hard stripe counter parts but they did not have the same authority. Then came the SPC5 and SPC6 ranks after that, and once again they got the pay but not the power. If those options were still available I think people in bands and high tech MOS's would likely be wearing SPC5 / 6 ranks or there service equivalent. Instead of the E-4 mafia you would have the SPC mafia! CC: SMSgt Tony Barnes

Response by SrA Russell Douglass made Sep 24 at 2015 1:08 PM

2015-09-24T13:08:06-04:00

No this is not typical. I don't care what the AFSC is. I would have a hard time taking orders. I would but she has done nothing to earn the respect and authority that rank holds. Complete disrespect to all who legitimately earned it.

Response by SGT Kevin Gardner made Sep 24 at 2015 2:34 PM

2015-09-24T14:34:10-04:00

It's not just an Airforce issue, for the life of me I couldn't figure out how people with more years of service were being passed up for promotion. I sat back and watched soldiers go from junior enlisted to NCO in their first enlistment, while good and hard charging soldiers with ten years of service get stuck not making any upward momentum. I have also seen NCO's use good soldiers to further their own ambitions keeping those soldiers in a place that benefits them, sometimes it even boiled down to a dislike for their junior enlisted.

Response by SPC Joel Brand made Sep 24 at 2015 2:44 PM

2015-09-24T14:44:49-04:00

Who cares? The rank she has is nothing more than E-6 pay. You knew what you got yourself into when you chose your job.* If you're upset with this, how about improving yourself instead of expecting ranks to be handed to you too?

*not saying that everything your recruiter told you was truthful, but you knew full well that military service wasn't cinnamon buns and rainbow colored unicorn farts.

Response by SPC Brian Hanson made Sep 24 at 2015 4:06 PM

2015-09-24T16:06:11-04:00

I can sing, how the hell did I end up in the infantry?
Oh that's right I joined before the interwebz so I only thought the Army had 3 things, Cooks, Infantrymen, and guys driving tanks.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 24 at 2015 4:14 PM

2015-09-24T16:14:48-04:00

Clearly the air force has no standards. But hey I'm reclassing to the Band. I'll make it to CSM by christmas.

The average Air Force wide active duty time for promotion to the rank of Technical Sergeant is 12 years.

Moving up the Air Force Ranks: The promotion process for Tech Sergeant is identical to the process for promotion to Staff Sergeant, except for the minimum requirements of 5 years Time-in-Serve (TIS) and 23 months Time-in-Grade (TIG), in addition to achieving a 7-skill level.

Response by MAJ Ronnie Reams made Sep 24 at 2015 5:50 PM

2015-09-24T17:50:31-04:00

Does anyone know why the AF does not have distinctive stripes, as the other services do to show that she is a musician? It would solve a lot of the "hard" feelings I see in the posts here. One could look and see that she is not a "real" TSGT.

Response by AB Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 24 at 2015 6:46 PM

2015-09-24T18:46:40-04:00

I'm going to go slap some Ferrari stickers on my Subaru, how much do you think I'll get for it?

Her, and anyone else who gets NCO stripes upon graduating Basic are frauds - it really is that simple.

Response by SSgt Bryan Crouch made Sep 24 at 2015 6:46 PM

2015-09-24T18:46:47-04:00

Unbelievable, this is disrespectful to every person who has worn the uniform and worked their butts off to achieve their rank. Disgusting.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 24 at 2015 7:33 PM

2015-09-24T19:33:03-04:00

Didn't see anyone raise up the point that these people have almost no time in, and are making the same pay as people that have been in the AF for 6+ years, pulling 12s week after week. It's horseshit. I don't care how good they are at performing. It has never mattered if I was the fastest in the AMU at replacing LRUs. That has affected zero promotions. There isn't a single valid argument for this.

Response by Sgt David Shepherd made Sep 24 at 2015 7:48 PM

2015-09-24T19:48:13-04:00

I believe that I may be in the best position to address this question, for obvious reasons (see profile pic). The first thing to be aware of, is that there are two "tiers" of band in the US military. There are the Premier bands, the best known of which is the "President's Own" Marine Band in Washington DC. Each DoD service branch has at least one premier band in the DC area, as well as one at each of the three academies. These bands hire the best of the best - they are on a comparable level of professionalism with major symphony orchestras. Because of this, members are enlisted at the rank of E-6. Keep in mind that these are professionals who would typically command 6-figure salaries as civilians. It is important to note that these band members are strictly non-combatants. They do not deploy to combat zones. Ever.

There is also a second tier of bands, variously referred to as field or fleet bands depending on the branch. Those who enlist to serve in these bands do not start at E-6. Each branch handles their musicians a little differently. Fleet Marine musicians enlist at E-2, most Army musicians enlist as E-4 specialists, and with the Navy it varies between E-2 and E-3 depending on the skill and educational background of the sailor. I'm not sure about the Air Force. Once these musicians complete training and start duty in the bands, promotions are typically faster than most other MOS's, but not excessively so (though I suppose that's a matter of opinion). In the Marine Corps and Army, these musicians typically complete all the same routine training requirements as those in other MOS's (though they are definitely still PoGs). Many of them deploy, usually as base security elements for whatever command they report to. Navy and Air Force musicians are strictly non-combatants. Their only job is to make music, and they rarely go anywhere near a combat zone.

Ultimately, love it or hate it, the accelerated (or in the case of the premier bands, instantaneous) promotions for military musicians comes down to supply and demand. To get quality musicians, the services need to offer pay that is at least somewhat competitive, or else not enough people will be interested in the job. And as it stands, pay in the military is 100% associated with rank. If you want to change the system so that a E-1 with special skills can be paid a higher salary than, say, an E-1 in the infantry, so be it. But I guarantee you that doing so will simply open a different can of worms.

Response by SGT Frank Leonardo made Sep 24 at 2015 8:21 PM

2015-09-24T20:21:30-04:00

I think it is a blow to anyone any branch who makes rank that quick. Last,time I checked it takes years to make e-6 in any branch or MOS.

Response by PO2 Kayla Modschiedler made Sep 24 at 2015 8:23 PM

2015-09-24T20:23:02-04:00

I should have joined the band. I never even thought about it. I play flute, piano and drums (I'm rusty on all three but I recently picked up a flute and played pretty well)

Response by LCpl Tad Cunningham made Sep 24 at 2015 8:33 PM

2015-09-24T20:33:26-04:00

Grunts get out of the Marine Corps as Lance Corporals (E-3) after going to war, doing what the military is ultimately for, just because it's so hard for us to pick up. The score is too high, so when a teenager picks up E-6 because she plays an instrument I personally feel it's bullshit. We don't need a band. We need a fighting force. Stuff like this pisses off those who've gone to war and lost limbs or worse. We can go to war and die but we can't pick up corporal (E-4) she can not deploy and play an instrument and get paid much more and have more incentive. We need to realize that we need warriors not band members.

Response by LTC Andrew Addison made Sep 24 at 2015 8:37 PM

2015-09-24T20:37:38-04:00

Maybe she had a Master's degree when she joined? Wait a minute, that would be hard to do. Perhaps she mixed her laundry with her husbands or boyfriend and they just happen to be the same size?

Response by SCPO Gene Grasz made Sep 24 at 2015 9:01 PM

2015-09-24T21:01:34-04:00

Does she have anything to do with putting hot metal on target? I suspect no…

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 24 at 2015 9:11 PM

2015-09-24T21:11:59-04:00

When people get promoted like that it degrades the rank structure. If you are an E6 you are supposed to be a leader. Yet she has no leadership experience, what ever happened to earning rank. Work hard and you will be rewarded. What happened to ALS and the NCO Academy.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Sep 24 at 2015 9:24 PM

2015-09-24T21:24:50-04:00

I'm not sure I object. The military has a long tradition of bestowing rank to attract people with "special talents", for example doctors and lawyers are instant captains. At least they didn't hand this young lady a commission. To be fair I was an E5 after just 5 months when I became an officer candidate. That's just one stripe below hers. Now, let's consider if her "special talent" (obviously no medical or legal professional) warrants special consideration. Imagine that she had continued her pursuit of a civilian career in singing. There's little doubt that she would have attained success far beyond the pay grade of an E6 (which, by the way, isn't that great until it's been bumped up with some time in grade/service). Instead, her talents are being used to add value to the service, attracting recruits, garnering public support, and raising morale. Not a bad bargain for the Air Force at what they're paying her. They would have to pay a civilian a helluva lot more to obtain comparable services. Thus, I'm not offended...

Response by Col Stuart Harris made Sep 24 at 2015 9:27 PM

2015-09-24T21:27:30-04:00

Even the Marine Corps has a professional musician hiring process that had promotion authority independent of the system. Its unique to that program. This appears to be that type of situation.

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 24 at 2015 9:29 PM

2015-09-24T21:29:28-04:00

As a Lcpl in the Marines, do I, with well more time in service than her, even need to reiterate the importance and responsibilities that come with rank? I know I joined to support and defend this country. For now I may just sit around, but as soon as I do pick up (when I have earned that rank), I will pursue bigger and better things with my career; not sing into a stick and hold onto a rank that is by far not deserved.

Response by TSgt Kenneth Ellis made Sep 24 at 2015 9:32 PM

2015-09-24T21:32:45-04:00

I've never heard of that. But I know of a General who gave step promotions who were on the fat boy program an ineligible for promotion. Read it in Stars and Strips.

Response by Sgt Packy Flickinger made Sep 24 at 2015 9:39 PM

2015-09-24T21:39:59-04:00

I knew a WM that made Cpl at 4 1/2 years and somehow picked up Sgt at the 5 mark. She did not go to any meritorious board nor would she say how she picked up E-5 after less than 6 months tig at 4.
She was a hard worker and squared away, but things happen. E-6 in less than 7-8 years is just wrong in my book.

Response by SGT Lee Caldwell made Sep 24 at 2015 11:27 PM

2015-09-24T23:27:41-04:00

He'll no and I'm an Army veteran

Response by PO3 Brendan "Smitty" Smith made Sep 24 at 2015 11:51 PM

2015-09-24T23:51:33-04:00

Wait...This isn't from The Onion or The Duffel Blog? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over?

Response by CH (MAJ) Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2015 12:07 AM

2015-09-25T00:07:16-04:00

I don't believe this is true. Even if she were filling a slot in ANG, there are still minimum TIS and TIG requirements. Not possible.

Response by CH (MAJ) Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2015 12:12 AM

2015-09-25T00:12:19-04:00

If this is a normal practice for band members to start out at E6, then this practice needs to be re-examine and immediately stopped.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2015 12:47 AM

2015-09-25T00:47:14-04:00

Bands back in the day went around to up morale. Now where I'm based we have almost no morale and a band ain't gunna help at all. Kinda sad to say but squadron drinking parties raise morale the most events or attempts to raise morale. Heck we have mma fights on base n no one went bc no one cared

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2015 1:00 AM

2015-09-25T01:00:39-04:00

Yes, AF Band members don't have the same rules as the rest of us. I knew a 22-year-old MSgt who was in the AF Band years ago. I was pretty pissed off at the time, being a SrA with about the same amount of TIS. Admittedly, it still makes no sense to me now--25 years later. We have members who have put their lives on the line and these individuals who have a job that is just about "pomp and circumstance" make rank like it's nothing.

Response by CW2 Antwaun Hill made Sep 25 at 2015 1:20 AM

2015-09-25T01:20:52-04:00

People only despise her making rank so quickly because they didn't.

Response by PVT James Chen made Sep 25 at 2015 1:31 AM

2015-09-25T01:31:51-04:00

I met a girl named Janet pham from Chicago. She stated to me airforce given her e6 from college. No rotc or any training. This is the second time I heard anything like this. Didn't think it was true.

Response by SSgt Ryan Jensen made Sep 25 at 2015 1:55 AM

2015-09-25T01:55:51-04:00

It is highly rare that anyone gets step promoted this quickly in the AF...and it's happened twice this year. I'm gonna be of the mindset, it's a horrible lapse in judgment to promote to E-6 like this.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2015 2:43 AM

2015-09-25T02:43:19-04:00

It's important to note this is the Air Force band. If she were to go to the real airforce (all jokes aside), she would lose that rank. This is simply market pay compensation for skill.

Response by SPC Angela Burnham made Sep 25 at 2015 4:58 AM

2015-09-25T04:58:35-04:00

I served for 7 years, went to school and got a bachelors degree, zero discipline problems my whole time in, and I still only made E4. This makes me mad >:\

Response by SPC Gregory Wagner made Sep 25 at 2015 5:07 AM

2015-09-25T05:07:05-04:00

Let's get your first mistake taken care of immediately. I don't care how old a person is when in the military, females are women and males are men. Meaning they have made the conscious decision to be adults. NOT girls or boys.

Second, maybe the sergeants in front of her fell during the battle of the bands competions and she was field promoted.

I don't know the whole story, but it does get the imagination going, and not in the right direction. It does seem a bit odd that at such a young age, an airman would be at such a high rank

Maybe she was in ROTC in high school, and as soon as she graduated she enlisted. Being ROTC, she enlisted as an E-3. Maybe she had her shit together and all her ducks in a row and was a fast learner. Just maybe she was given the opportunity to show off her leadership skills.

How about you atop being jealous and try to kearn from her experience. Let the green eyed monster go and if you ask her correctly and with respect, she may share with you her secrets to being all you can be in the Air Force!!

Response by Cpl Jim Lenois made Sep 25 at 2015 7:41 AM

2015-09-25T07:41:10-04:00

Earned it on her knees

Response by SCPO Tony Aviles made Sep 25 at 2015 9:38 AM

2015-09-25T09:38:22-04:00

The only service members who get the direct promotion to E-6 are those who are good enough to make it into THE AF, Navy, Army, USMC Band. Each service only has one. All those bands are HQ'd in DC. A musician that passes that audition is truly a professional musician and is leaps and bounds more proficient than a member of a typical military band. It's been this way for decades. This is how you attract quality musicians that have choices in what they do in their professional music career. I am a Navy Submariner but my Dad was a retired AF bandsman. He wasn't in THE AF band but he always talked about what outstanding musicians they were

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2015 9:53 AM

2015-09-25T09:53:07-04:00

Its not who you know its .....

Response by Cpl Matthew Cino made Sep 25 at 2015 9:58 AM

2015-09-25T09:58:08-04:00

I believe this type of question is like putting chum in the water to draw out us devil dogs that know exactly how she got promoted, I'll let your imagination run wild.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2015 10:00 AM

2015-09-25T10:00:10-04:00

The answers to these questions are located in the specific regulations or instructions.
AFI36-2502 Chapter 5
PREMIER BAND ENLISTED PROMOTION AND PROPRIETY REVIEW PROCESS
5.2. Background. To support CONUS and worldwide mission requirements, Premier Bands access fully qualified professional musicians. Premier Band members are by-pass specialists who do not enter into formal upgrade training to attain craftsman (7-skill level) designation. Air Force Premier Bands compete with the other services' premier bands and the civilian sector in recruiting fully qualified professional musicians. While assigned to an Air Force Premier Band, members are deferred from rotational PCS moves. Special enlisted promotion authority is granted only for band members assigned to Premier Bands because:
5.2.1. Recruiting fully qualified professional musicians saves training costs and time.
5.2.2. Recruiting and retaining fully qualified professional musicians to Premier Bands requires an incentive.
5.2.3. Members are deferred from rotational PCS moves and must compete for promotion to internal vacancies rather than external quotas.
5.4.1. Due to the highly specialized nature of positions in the Premier Bands, The USAF Band and The USAFA Band conduct separate promotion processes based on internal unit vacancies. Promotion to TSgt is effective upon the day the member first reports for duty with a Premier Band and requires the approval of the promotion authority or their designated representative. There are no TIS or TIG requirements.

Response by MCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2015 10:41 AM

2015-09-25T10:41:01-04:00

E-6 is automatic for the premier service bands in Washington DC. There are often over 100 applicants for one spot. These folks are the best of the best and are trained and qualified before enlisting, unlike most other service members. Mostband members have at least a bachelor's degree and many come with master's and doctoral degrees. It is unusual for a 19 year old to be accepted, but I tip my hat to her for this accomplishment.

Mike McDonald,
Master Chief Musician (ret)
U.S. Navy Band

Response by GySgt Scott Campbell made Sep 25 at 2015 11:36 AM

2015-09-25T11:36:19-04:00

It depends on if your a band member. Great deal for the band member. A bit unfair to the Occupational Spcialties that do not promote as quickly. It took me eleven and a half years to get E6 in the USMC. Rank should be earned and not given away. It should be based on the character and works of the service member. If this is an issue of pay, then offer a bonus incentive not a rank incentive.

Response by Maj Mike Sciales made Sep 25 at 2015 12:12 PM

2015-09-25T12:12:31-04:00

I think it's value for money. The USAF is paying a rock star $34,512 a year. They are a recruiting, diplomatic tool and motivational tool. This isn't any different then when they offered direct promotion from E-2 to E-7 to anybody who volunteer to be tail gunner in a B-52D model (no takers in our lot). The needs of the Air Force drive the spending. She (and the others) have talents we can't teach in tech school. They perform multiple functions and improve international relations. They are a force multiplier.

Response by A1C Mike Christensen made Sep 25 at 2015 12:29 PM

2015-09-25T12:29:55-04:00

I wasin the band flight and some the guys that were going into the Air Force band were promoted to E6 right out of basic. There was something different about it though irc. I don't think they received E6 pay and if they left the band they lost the rank. Don't quote me though that was back in 96.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2015 12:55 PM

2015-09-25T12:55:26-04:00

She is also wearing a star on her function badge indicating she is a 7 level. A 7 level takes years to get indicating she was given that achievement also, cheapening the efforts of those before her. She was handed the rank and did nothing to deserve it. It took me 12 years active service to make E-6. She is no NCO!

Response by MSgt Wayne Blake made Sep 25 at 2015 1:17 PM

2015-09-25T13:17:47-04:00

All AF Premier Band members join at E6. People crying and hating about rank...call the waaambulance! You know how much fraud waste and abuse occurs above and beyond around the DoD and government. Pleeeeaaaase...

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2015 2:28 PM

2015-09-25T14:28:03-04:00

SrA Private RallyPoint Member She is not a "girl"; she is an Airman. This is a disrespectful post.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2015 2:52 PM

2015-09-25T14:52:35-04:00

Thanks for raising your right hand and deciding to serve in your own way.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2015 2:53 PM

2015-09-25T14:53:08-04:00

I am late to the party as well, but I find it sad that there are almost 800 comments from people who have no clue what they are talking about. The only band members that get promoted to the rank of E-6 directly from boot camp are the ones who have auditioned and been accepted into a premier band in DC. Other band members who aren't assigned to a premier band usually end up at a regional band starting out as an E-3. I'm talking people with Bachelors, Masters and even some with Docotorate degrees. They do not get rank by being in the lead/solo chair, they test just like everyone else. People really should do their homework before they spew such nonsense.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2015 3:10 PM

2015-09-25T15:10:42-04:00

She's still equivalent to a LCPL(E3) in the Marines. She gets the rank but never the respect or the trust. Rank is personal development, she doesn't have the mindset or knowledge as a E6 should have.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2015 3:16 PM

2015-09-25T15:16:13-04:00

Normal for trained musicians. Navy is the same way, all they do is play music, usually at command functions. Similar to the medical/dental program for officers except they are enlisted of course. IIRC, the Navy ones go through boot as E3s and put on their actual rank at/after graduation.

Response by SPC Jeremy Morgan made Sep 25 at 2015 3:45 PM

2015-09-25T15:45:41-04:00

Probably meant 29 year old E-6. I'm going for typo

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2015 4:17 PM

2015-09-25T16:17:45-04:00

I belive in points for potential, but no judging, I think their could have been quite a few singers throughout the service with a fantastic voice who are already Tech Sergeants. It does raise eye brows and ire to take a 19 yr old with only a voice and promote her. So now what is her promotion potential. How soon until she is eligible for the next grade.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2015 4:35 PM

2015-09-25T16:35:29-04:00

There seems to be a lot of confusion regarding military musicianship. There is a very specific reason she is an E-6 at the age of 19. As a former military bandsman, please allow me to share my knowledge of the field.

For the Air Force, and special bands in the Army and Marine Corps, auditions occur before someone even enlists. They must audition for a specific spot (instrument or voice), and often they compete with other musicians. Even those already in the traditional band field must audition separately for special bands (such as Pershing's Own for the Army, the President's Own for the Marine Corps, and apparently Max Impact for the Air Force). The deal is, if one passes the audition phase, they will be offered the position; should they accept, they will begin a new contract in which they enlist as an E-6, must maintain height/weight and PT standards for their respective service (among other things), and understand that their purpose is for morale and ceremony ONLY. Those bands do not deploy for combat purposes, participate in field exercises, or do any of the things regular soldiers/airmen/marines/sailors are typically required. The biggest qualification: YOU MUST ALREADY KNOW HOW TO DO YOUR JOB. You must already have all the training to perform your craft, save for workshops and whatnot. It requires years of honing your knowledge and skills, before you even get to the point of auditioning. Many auditionees hold undergraduate degrees in music performance, and often even higher levels than that. THAT is why they can be E-6s from the get-go; the service doesn't have to teach them the basic skills of their jobs and they are expected to hold a maturity level above your standard service member.

Response by TSgt John Dias made Sep 25 at 2015 4:48 PM

2015-09-25T16:48:10-04:00

At WPAFB the band NCOs and Amn used to win ALS and NCOA awards and DG with regularity. As well you have musicians w/ Bachelor degrees in Music but can't be Officers in the band.

Response by SSgt Chris Stiffler made Sep 25 at 2015 5:02 PM

2015-09-25T17:02:23-04:00

WTF

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2015 5:10 PM

2015-09-25T17:10:46-04:00

This is going on and we're cutting Airmen from our work force that are solid contributors, from across the board. I don't have an issue with band members ranking quickly, but it is certainly a slap in the face to folks that do more than "boost morale" and get laid off. I wouldn't trust any band member in the field with a weapon if it came down to military survival. Why is the band a career field? Make it a special duty. Sure the quality will suffer a bit, but it would take care of the rank issue and save the AF a lot of money I'd imagine.

Response by SFC Collin McMillion made Sep 25 at 2015 5:23 PM

2015-09-25T17:23:45-04:00

You need to earn your rank and position, not just handed to you. With rank comes responsibility and discision making reguardless!!!

Response by Cpl Edward Ramos made Sep 25 at 2015 5:25 PM

2015-09-25T17:25:34-04:00

I once recently read an article regarding the reason why people pick up these rapid promotions especially in situations like members of the President's Own band. These are civilians who play for philharmonic orchestras and are normally paid well in the civilian world. The only way to get them to joins such military bands, the have to give them higher pay so the can come on board. They are put through an excelarated military boot camp and sign a contract which limits them to that particular MOS. That said, they don't affect the boots on the ground so I say let it be.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2015 5:39 PM

2015-09-25T17:39:38-04:00

Band members get Even pay. When their term is up they go to a board and they will review witch rank they go to, typically E3-E4. Do I like this system, not really as I don't think a 4month airman is capable of filling a E6's role, but she is a higher rank and I will respect that.

Response by LTC Michael Parker made Sep 25 at 2015 7:15 PM

2015-09-25T19:15:00-04:00

At the age of 19, I enlisted in the Army (11B) as an E-1 in May and made E-5 in September of the same year.

Response by Sgt Spencer Sikder made Sep 25 at 2015 7:59 PM

2015-09-25T19:59:42-04:00

It's been many years since I spoke with Marine band members, but they too received rank quickly. Of course some of the members were recruited from quality music schools for the purpose of their talent. And when they perform publicly, they bring in support and resources. I haven't been to an Air show that didn't rake in hundreds of thousands for the venue. The Marine band as with any military band are used in various capacities including promotion of the organization. I'm curious when the branches decide on how many of a particular rank they can promote that year, does it include these folks? BTW, the band members I spoke with, many who were E-5 or better, respected us more so for our service to our country. As for the pay, just like any other military organization, there is equipment upkeep, practice, hurry up and wait, being on the road for extended periods away from their family and friends as well, etc. Our group came in Saturday for a morning parade through town, an evening performance in the park and then another morning parade in an adjoining town. At one point a surprised shower popping up. There was no per diem for this weekend. Of course they didn't pay for the hotel and meals, as the service organizations put together spaghetti dinners and box lunches and such.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2015 8:02 PM

2015-09-25T20:02:22-04:00

Why? Just.....why?

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2015 8:02 PM

2015-09-25T20:02:42-04:00

Lol

Response by PO2 Jeffery Reiser made Sep 25 at 2015 9:10 PM

2015-09-25T21:10:32-04:00

Apparently time in grade is no meaning in today's military. That is why our military is in the condition it is in!

Response by PO1 Andrew Friel made Sep 25 at 2015 9:22 PM

2015-09-25T21:22:13-04:00

It is a position of leadership and should be earned!

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2015 9:25 PM

2015-09-25T21:25:16-04:00

Go visit and talk these Airmen and you will get a better understanding. It would be great to see a poll of what AF percent has spectated any AF Band event. Also, knowing their promotion stats has the same effect on you that it did when you were not in the "know".

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2015 9:31 PM

2015-09-25T21:31:37-04:00

I'm an Air Force Recruiter and the premier band program does authorize their members the pay grade of E-6 AFTER the completion of BMT. Majority of these individuals possess Master's Degrees and are required to go through a rigorous audition process. Just like Officers who posses certain educational and professional skills that are highly sought after in the civilian sector, rank upgrades can be used as a tool to compensate their financial loss if commissioned at the lowest rank: This a similar situation, except the band does not have Officers.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2015 9:42 PM

2015-09-25T21:42:38-04:00

Still BS she's a singer in the band who gives a dam.She didn't test or do any time to earn that rank. Guess she can supervise the drum line. No ALS or nothing what a joke. Some of us worked for years to make that rank I hope this caps a joke. Because it should be.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2015 10:03 PM

2015-09-25T22:03:59-04:00

There is no reason to promote somebody to E-6 after only being in four months. That's ridiculous

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2015 10:16 PM

2015-09-25T22:16:23-04:00

Because she knows her job it's no reason to sit at e4 for 7 years

Response by PO2 Matt Nicholson made Sep 25 at 2015 10:52 PM

2015-09-25T22:52:35-04:00

I heard of a recruit who's voice was heard singing, and the 'guest' mentioned she needed to be in the Navy's singing group. The RDC & others mentioned that group was E-7 and above, so she was promoted to khakis while in basic (supposedly) That guest was claimed to be Pres. Clinton.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2015 11:33 PM

2015-09-25T23:33:31-04:00

Idk it could very well be possible. She could have gotten out of boot camp at 17 as an E3 and received a couple meritorious promotions to get E6. I know a girl came out of boot camp as an E3. 6 months later she made E4. A year later made E5. I know another guy E6 eligible but didn't make it after 4 years. When I made E5 some people in my PO indoc were still so new they only had boot camp ribbons and less than 2 years in the service. It's definitely possible although I think you should have more experience to be E5 and above more than 2 years or so but if you make it you make it.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2015 11:41 PM

2015-09-25T23:41:11-04:00

In the Army, band members get a SPC promotion when they first enlist and then after completing AIT and in the full band, an SSG Promotion. So yes I buy this.

Response by SGT Tristan White made Sep 26 at 2015 12:08 AM

2015-09-26T00:08:20-04:00

Another fine example of why the spec system needs to be put back in place.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2015 12:59 AM

2015-09-26T00:59:43-04:00

So if I understand this right, band members are special and get to rank up like that because most musicians of their caliber (lol) wouldn't join if they had to start from the bottom and work their way up like everyone else, but not to worry, they don't have authority outside of band... eh, I would say this is still outrageous and I question the necessity of a taxpayer-funded band. With all this outrage about weekly stolen valor incidents, you'd think more people would raise eyebrows at fake airmen playing dress-up while taking home E-6+ pay every month. I know they're here to entertain deployed, high ops tempo soldiers but they didn't have to present themselves as real sergeants, that's just in poor taste. God help us all if they're allowed to reclass AND keep their rank.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2015 1:14 AM

2015-09-26T01:14:29-04:00

My thoughts: 1) it is the band, does it matter. 2) yes it matters if she is considered an NCO, is she leading troops? 3) are we REALLY that surprised? Rank and medals are given out way to easily these days........new military of today I guess

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2015 2:10 AM

2015-09-26T02:10:34-04:00

There are usually two types of bands across each of the branches. There are the field or fleet bands, which are scattered across the nation and the world. And then each service has one to four "special bands" that serve mostly around D.C. and at the service academies. The special bands tend to start their new recruits at the E6 paygrade. It's not uncommon to see a good number of folks holding their service's E8 and E9 paygrade ranks as well. All of their promotions come from within their own little unit.

In the Army, for instance, the other "non-elite" band members will start as a Specialist/E4 and then we compete within our occupational specialty Army-wide. I think the Corps might start their musicians as a Lance Corporal after boot or something. The whole idea here is to entice someone to take this music job, and hopefully to find someone qualified to do it.

I speak only for my branch, but the quality of musician that staffs our units has improved greatly this past decade. Recruiting efforts and a green carrot to dangle have helped make this happen. And so long as the military wants musicians to perform for the greater mission of that Service, then they have to take steps to bring in the talent capable of doing the job. I'm not qualified for her job, nor could I competitively audition nowadays for a spot in one of the "special bands." But I appreciate what those units do. It's different work, but it's still important. I want the DoD to pay what it takes to fill the job, same as I want them doing what it takes to find the most qualified rifleman, doctor, admin tech, or explosive ordnance disposal tech. One team, One fight.

Response by TSgt Kenneth Ellis made Sep 26 at 2015 3:42 AM

2015-09-26T03:42:33-04:00

You know what gets very iratated. Is permissive tdy. People who play football or baseball. And you have to stay behind and do there work. Do you remember the Army fighter to went and competed in the Olympics. Think of all the people who did his work. I think he won a medle. Did not thank the Army for giving him the opera unity to train. I think he got out of the service. More money. But I digress.

Response by AB Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2015 5:22 AM

2015-09-26T05:22:58-04:00

RIDICULOUS....

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2015 5:42 AM

2015-09-26T05:42:29-04:00

Here's the thing: When you're in a rate/MOS whose primary role is to make the country look good, boost morale, and motivate people to join or support the services, your best chances of making those people happy and satisfied enough to do a good job is to give them lots and lots of benefits. That means incentive pay, that means high-speed promotion, that means preferred choice of duty stations. You don't need to like it, but that's why the Navy has the saying, "Choose your rate, choose your fate."

Response by 1SG Fred Ferguson made Sep 26 at 2015 6:14 AM

2015-09-26T06:14:21-04:00

If you don't want this then don't have a band. If you are the best then they make you lead vocalist. She will lead by example. She turned down fame to perform solely for our service members. You can try and fill her shoes but you are simply not capable.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Sep 26 at 2015 6:37 AM

2015-09-26T06:37:32-04:00

They are always certain specialized fields in the Military that have a faster advancement system than the rest of us. In the Navy it was the Nuclear Community. Always got a kick out of seeing an E-7 with only 2 hash marks.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2015 6:44 AM

2015-09-26T06:44:39-04:00

Quit trying to take a bite of someone elses cookie. Go earn your own cookie and enjoy it! This is a term i call the army cookie syndrome someone else who is acting childish when they see someone else get the cookie and they want to take their cookie away rather than earn their own! SGT. Fox, Ryan US Army

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2015 6:55 AM

2015-09-26T06:55:22-04:00

While it is comparing apples to oranges, the 18X program is similar...to a degree. Once the Soldier finishes Q course, they get promoted to Sergeant and then SSG once they go to ALC, but it is a much longer process. Is it the right way to do business for the Air Force? I don't know for sure, but since I feel I know a little about leadership, I think I am a qualified to chime in. I truly believe she will never be a leader until she develops the skills and is properly mentored, so she will be a TSgt for a long time. She has proven she knows how to sing and is technically good at it, so hence the advanced rank. Does it make it right, especially for all of those who have been toiling to pass a test for years? Not sure, but it all boils down to a job and what the Air Force is willing to pay her.

Response by SSgt Patrick Kane made Sep 26 at 2015 7:26 AM

2015-09-26T07:26:43-04:00

A better way to do this would be to make her an E -3 , allow her to earn her future rank including NCO status while giving her incentive/retention pay. They use to do this for medical professionals to keep them on par with their civilian counterparts.

Response by 1SG Harold Piet made Sep 26 at 2015 7:46 AM

2015-09-26T07:46:48-04:00

If you have any complaints, Join the band. and Get you some

Response by Sgt Daniel Shaw made Sep 26 at 2015 7:56 AM

2015-09-26T07:56:49-04:00

I mean, come on, it's the Air Force...

Response by SPC Min Charles Dunnell made Sep 26 at 2015 8:04 AM

2015-09-26T08:04:37-04:00

The Chair Force is not the only branch that promotes like that. I seen happen in the Army with my own eyes. I watched a E-2 go to E-5(P) within 2.5 years. He was bout even 21 when he pinned E-6. In the Navy I saw several 6 year E-7 pinnings. In my 13 years of service, I found out it is not what you do or how you perform, but who you know and who you screw.

I love my COUNTRY and will freely die for my Brothers and Sisters that I served with, but I am discussed with this new age military. I am 5th generation military and this is a disgrace to the uniforms of the past.

Response by SrA Matthew Porter made Sep 26 at 2015 9:05 AM

2015-09-26T09:05:25-04:00

No, she probably really is an E-6. I don't agree with the practice, but the Air Force, and other branches offer quick promotions to people who are like the best musicians in the country. They wouldn't otherwise be able to compete for talent for their "oh, so prestigious bands." I can assure you that, outside of that fantasy Air Force Band world, no one respects her rank. It simply was a recruiting gimmick to get her to enlist instead of enroll in Juliard.

Response by SP5 Ford Ross made Sep 26 at 2015 11:52 AM

2015-09-26T11:52:01-04:00

I made SP% at 18 years old, one year TIS in 1976...

Response by SP5 Ford Ross made Sep 26 at 2015 11:53 AM

2015-09-26T11:53:10-04:00

I made SP% at 18 years old with 1 year TIS in 1976...never was PVT, PV2, or CPL/SP4...

Response by MSgt August Spier made Sep 26 at 2015 1:20 PM

2015-09-26T13:20:17-04:00

I am all for recognizing talent and ability. But I am also sure that this is not the way to do it.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2015 2:43 PM

2015-09-26T14:43:33-04:00

It's no different with Pershing's own, which has their members join at SSG. Heck, even the regular Army Bands (small and medium sized) come in as Specialists. The best way that I can break this down for you is this: We in the Army Bands all had to audition for a slot, not just enlist into one. We had to hone our skills for over a decade before we could even be considered for a 42R or 42S slot (I came into the Army as a PFC. I had been playing clarinet for 13 years and had spent thousands of dollars on lessons, instruments, and countless hours in the practice room). Every single person in my unit *wants* to be there. Every single person in my unit is a professional musician. Allowing bandsmen- especially those in the special bands- to come in as a E6 is a form of compensation for the literal years it took to hone that skill. We are one of the smallest MOSs in the Army, yet we have one of the biggest home side missions. If she's good enough to get into a special band, then she's earned it.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2015 6:29 PM

2015-09-26T18:29:54-04:00

If rank is a indication of level of skill in your MOS then why are we so up in arms about this outstanding achievement! Maybe the military should catch up with the rest of the world and recognize talent and not just time?? Great job and accomplishment of you ask me!!

Response by SGT Jerrold Pesz made Sep 26 at 2015 7:11 PM

2015-09-26T19:11:10-04:00

Sure seems to be a lot of jealousy here. This in not some new program. They were doing it when I joined in the mid sixties. They give even higher starting ranks to nurses, lawyers, chaplains, and all sorts of people in the medical professions. By the way of thinking that many here seem to have we should also be able to fill those jobs with an E1 and let them earn their rank the same as everyone else. Of course EVERYONE else doesn't do it either. I have seen many promoted with double waivers on TIG and TIS and many of the old timers resented them too. Of course none of those people would join for E1 pay so maybe we need to either reinstitute the draft or just hire civilians.

Response by MSgt Mark Roca made Sep 26 at 2015 7:48 PM

2015-09-26T19:48:53-04:00

?????????????????????????????????

Response by SSG Peter Marshall made Sep 26 at 2015 8:04 PM

2015-09-26T20:04:35-04:00

It's not typical for band members to start at E-6 - to answer the original post. The original post reflects a great deal of misunderstanding of the military musician programs. While the perks vary among the different branches, musicians in the Army Reserve and Active Army start at E-3. Soldiers successfully pass Basic Combat Training and get accelerated promotion to E-4 providing they maintain physical standards.

In the Army, you might be assigned to a Traditional Army Band, such as Fort Leonard Wood's 399th Army Band. When the band goes on block leave, an Army Reserve Band may travel to Missouri to handle the ceremonial missions and other activities, such as area concerts.

Anyone, including service members in a regular band, can audition for the special bands.

Each branch of the service has special bands. Max Impact is one of the special bands within the The U.S. Air Force Band. The Army has Pershing's Own, The Marines have The President's Own, then there's The United States Navy Band, The U.S. Air Force Band, and The U.S. Coast Guard Band. THOSE bands have accelerated promotions and other benefits, such as no entry training for the Marines and Coast Guard. The Army attends Basic Combat Training, and I'm pretty sure the Navy does, too. HOWEVER, all musicians must pass an audition that demonstrates their ability to perform and most of them sign a 4-year contract. The bottom line is that military has jobs requiring civilian-acquired skills.

If you really think military bands are a waste of the military's time and resources, I will not argue the point - I did that for 20 years as a musician in the Army Reserve. The best individuals qualified to handle that are the Generals and Admirals. If you get the chance to ask them at an event, like a Family Day, ask them what the impact would be if someone took his/her band away. I'm sure you'd get an earful of understanding - especially since if military band is working during the event.

Here's my bottom line: as someone that served for 20 years in the USAR, with 1 year active as a gate guard after Sept 11th, I respect all members of all branches that I didn't have when I first joined the military. I know there are long days, people get moved around, promotions can be scarce, and it can be a very tough life. I can understand the aggravation that other units have when they see how relatively easy it is for those in the garrison - especially musicians. Just keep in mind that we're relatively few in number and we make an impact since live music is part of our country's great military tradition.

Thank you for your service,

Peter Marshall,
SSG (Ret.)
USAR

Response by SPC Chris Espy made Sep 26 at 2015 9:09 PM

2015-09-26T21:09:44-04:00

This is an extraordinary circumstance. Most men and women who enter a premier band hold a master's degree and prior professional experience. The auditions are highly competitive and may generally attract 50 candidates. I should note that only a handful of these bands exist (most people enter as E-3 or E-4.) Perhaps the rank would be better suited as a warrant officer 1 or "Specialist 6" (which no longer exists, maybe they should bring it back). In terms of $$, the bands make up a tiny, tiny portion of the defense budget. For instance, the annual budget of a premier band falls in line with perhaps the cost of 2-3 tomahawk missiles.

The bands are the face of the military. It's what the civilian will see. I have attended many of the concerts the bands hold and they are consistently packed. I was a National Guard bandsman, and when I was in I played at Veterans hospitals, concert halls, outdoor venues, and in high schools. When we traveled there was a recruiter on hand (as appropriate). Premier groups do some big time gigs. They play for heads of state, for funerals of war veterans at Arlington cemetery as well as former presidents. Those bands tour nationally.

Response by SFC Karl Sauter made Sep 26 at 2015 9:14 PM

2015-09-26T21:14:27-04:00

Look at it this way haters. For an Infantry soldier to make E6 they have promotion boards, 2 leadership schools, probably some college, and maxing their pt tests, all while learning the skills inherent in infantry. I'm thankful for all you do. Musicians in the special bands or premier bands have been in training their whole life learning their instrument. Only very few musicians get accepted into these bands by a rigorous audition process. They are the special forces of the music field. Are you haters also mad because the military hires civilian doctors and makes them colonels? Whether you like it or not you better cll them sir or mam or Sgt because they have both have the authority to jack you up. I'm just saying.
Sfc retired army bands man

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2015 9:38 PM

2015-09-26T21:38:43-04:00

Everything is political anymore NOT how hard you work or how dedicated you are.

Response by SMSgt Kim Shirley made Sep 26 at 2015 10:31 PM

2015-09-26T22:31:02-04:00

Yes, Col Dondi Coatin is an AF Chaplain that was stationed at Hickam and was promoted to Maj Gen.

Response by Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 27 at 2015 4:51 AM

2015-09-27T04:51:36-04:00

Regardless of these band members talents only so many of these individuals would make Tech pay for their talents alone in the outside world. So why pay them as such. A doctor coming in...yes, promote them and pay them well. A singer, really! A singer who had a chance at going to sing in front of celebrities, who had a chance at impressing them, who had a chance at getting a record deal, a chance at going platinum and a chance at making millions. Thats a lot of what if's that need to happen to justify anyone coming in and 4 month later putting on staff and making that kind of money. Not that its a huge amount but still. I can hit the lottery tonight, but i chose to come in...Air Force pay up lol.

Response by SSgt Dustin Coy made Sep 27 at 2015 5:03 AM

2015-09-27T05:03:23-04:00

After reading through a lot of the comments, I see a lot of, shall we call them: "Concerns?" Regarding leadership capabilities of a 19/20 year old, band members getting special benefits, accelerated rank advancement, and comparisons with band member skill sets vs a different AFSC/MOS/RATE where stripes must be earned.

And for what it's worth, I'll also emphasize that I understand it's not all bands, but only "THE" band for each branch this happens for.

I have a few thoughts on all of this...First, I'm a realist, and to the military, it's all about the image. As active duty/reservists/veterans etc, we all know that image is paramount to the military. Always has been, always will be, like it or not. They invest a lot of $ in advertisements and recruiting campaigns. As such, because THE Band serves a role for acting as ambassadors to the public in that regard, providing a positive image and a recruiting tool, ALONG with serving the role of boosting morale through shows, it's actually money well spent, at least from a "50,000 foot view." Two birds, one stone so to speak. Now, did they ever improve my morale as an active duty airman? Or have an effect on my decision to enlist/re-enlist? No, not really. But, the general consensus is that they do, and since it has/had no real impact on me, I am cool with it.

Now, with regard to the leadership capability of a 19/20 year old E6, I fail to see that as an absolute problem. Why you may ask? Well, we have plenty of young men and women straight out of college come in as "butter bars" (no offense intended to the 2nd Lt's out there...) at the age of 21/22 and they're expected to lead units all the time. Furthermore, we all know what an E-6 with 18 yrs TIS (for example) does when they pass a brand new 2nd Lt on the sidewalk....they salute smartly, and refer to them as sir, or Lieutenant. So, tell me, how is having a 19/20 year old band member being promoted to E6 straight out of boot camp, who will never be placed in charge of an E1-E5 below them (because every one of them come in as E-6's, there would be no E-1's, 2's, 3's, 4's, or 5's in their band) REALLY any different? Perhaps I missed something along the way, but I'm just not seeing the major dilemma here.

Finally, as for the "concerns" regarding the fact that they get promoted straight away to E6, while somebody who actually has to "earn" their stripes, gets "the shaft"...Well, yeah, maybe it aint really fair, but then again none of us were really ever promised it would be were we? It's been a long time since I looked over my old enlistment contract, but I'm pretty sure there was nothing in there regarding that. Same kind of thing happens on the outside of the military as well. The big question is: Has the experience you've gained in your AFSC/MOS/RATE and the education you've gained set you up so that you don't get the shaft later? An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure after all. Do you have a great deal of talent or a refined skill set that companies are looking for to help improve their image, or greatly enhance their bottom line? Do they NEED/WANT something that only you and a relatively small number of others are capable of, or is there a lower need with a high number of qualified people available? For example, if I'm a deck swabbing shit shoveler, that can be replaced at the drop of a hat, I'm not going to be paid near the same, nor have the same promotion opportunities as somebody who is in a high demand/high profile position. They're the "face" of the company, and much harder to replace, while to the company, I'm much easier to replace, even though the shit still needs shoveled and the deck still needs to be swabbed. Likewise, regardless of how long we've both been with the "company" they'll likely make more $ on their first day, than I would in a week after being there for 10 years. And even though I may have earned the role of supervising other deck swabbers or shit shovelers, that will most likely not change the fact above. Very thankful I'm not a deck swabbing shit shoveler by the way...No offense intended to any of those out there currently in that gig, or looking at that as a profession beyond the uniform...It's just not for me.

I guess my point to all of this is: Get used to it. Complaining about what they get, isn't going to fix anything for YOU. I assure you, they won't lose any sleep at night regarding their role, and they shouldn't. If it really chaps your hide that badly, do something to increase your own earning potential/potential for rapid advancement.

Response by SSG Jim Foreman made Sep 27 at 2015 7:04 AM

2015-09-27T07:04:01-04:00

My concerns are what type of leadership course(s) has she gone through? What happened to time in grade / time in service? Or is that waived because of her mos? When she interacts with other troops how could she possibly know what a lawful order was? I've read that other branches do the same thing, but is it right? Kind of a slap in the face to all the combat NCOs who work their asses off to make Staff Sergeant.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 27 at 2015 9:49 AM

2015-09-27T09:49:08-04:00

The Airforce Band is one of the hardest units to get into in the armed forces. Airman that make it into that unit earn a higher paygrade because they have the expertise. She may be young but she has a skill that surpasses others. She had to pass an audition and meet all other standards required to enlist in that slot. The audition that is on par with Symphonies. If she were to leave the band field she would most likely have a reduction in rank. Music is an aquired skill. You may feel that military bandsmen are unnecessary. Not only do we continue to honor military tradition through ceremony, we inspire civilians. We inspire them to raise their right hand and join the ranks. We inspire them to support the service members overseas and we honor those that have given everything for the nation.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 27 at 2015 12:22 PM

2015-09-27T12:22:12-04:00

For MU s in navy the start E-5 or 6 depending on musical skill or schools.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 27 at 2015 2:00 PM

2015-09-27T14:00:25-04:00

The military is based on rank which is tied to leadership ability and technical development and competence. A troop who has 4 months TIS has neither the leadership ability nor the technical competence to hold the rank of TSgt. It is astonishing that senior NCOs who have responded to this article are okay with this. It doesn't matter what this young lady's job is in the Air Force. Her rank based on her TIS diminishes the good order and discipline of the service.

Response by SMSgt Thor Merich made Sep 27 at 2015 2:06 PM

2015-09-27T14:06:28-04:00

Many folks on this post are getting a little too upset about this.

First of all, its pretty standard in all services for a musician of her caliber. Second, don't confuse rank with authority. While she has the rank, but she clearly has no authority. In most cases, rank and authority or equal. However, in other cases, such as military law enforcement, rank and authority are not equal. As a Army MP many moons ago, they taught of a phrase in MP School, "Don't confuse your rank with my authority."

Its really not a big deal folks.

Response by PV2 Anthony Gularte made Sep 27 at 2015 3:21 PM

2015-09-27T15:21:21-04:00

Each MOS is different. You can rank up pretty fast if you are in a position that has very few people in it. If you want to make quick rank in the Army, switch to working in food services. Just sayin

Response by PO1 Russell Henson made Sep 27 at 2015 4:00 PM

2015-09-27T16:00:37-04:00

That's the AF!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 27 at 2015 4:10 PM

2015-09-27T16:10:32-04:00

This is absurd, I don't care what MOS you have, there are expectations for those holding that rank, if you just give it away, then you are destroying the NCO Corps and all we stand for. You need to develop that Airman and make sure they know what is expected of them and that they are mature enough to represent all of us NCO's.

Response by SSG Steven McDanield made Sep 27 at 2015 4:33 PM

2015-09-27T16:33:37-04:00

This Rank is a reflection of her talent and enlistment into one of the special services. For a lot of us, being an NCO was a tough, mentored, educational, and experiential career path that took years of devoted service to achieve. We had to be forged into leaders and Perform our jobs to the highest standard. For all the blood, sweat, and devotion to duty, we were promoted. Her talent is singing, which she excels at. She serves in the Band, she is in a "different World" than most of us who served. She is esentiall in a P.R. unit that represents and promotes promotes the Air Force. She will never lead airmen in the traditional sense. I have no issue with this other than to say, that if She were to come into a situation where she would be expected to operate at her Rank outside the Special Services, she should take it upon herself to get the leadership education in order to do what's expected.

Response by Maj Dennis Dumale made Sep 27 at 2015 6:32 PM

2015-09-27T18:32:05-04:00

Band positions are different. Certain positions have assigned ranks. They go through an entirely diff recruiting process requiring auditions and/or certain education requirements. In her case it may be that a vocalist position is an E6 - Assuming she is primarily a vocalist...she may play an instrument or instruments as well. There is a lot more to just performance too.

Response by PO1 Thomas Wallenta made Sep 27 at 2015 7:50 PM

2015-09-27T19:50:28-04:00

In the Navy, all musicians come in as E-6. Most have at least a Masters Degree, some with P.hD.s .. however, at 19... pretty much says she doesn't have the advanced degrees the Navy requires to get those ranks.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 27 at 2015 9:21 PM

2015-09-27T21:21:44-04:00

A lot of your military band members get rank for the pay. Many were talented on their instruments and could make more in civilian life so the military tries to pay competive to get or keep them

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 27 at 2015 9:31 PM

2015-09-27T21:31:43-04:00

It seems as if the band is in a section of there own and separated from the operational AF. I understand that they will not be in charge of anything other than band related issues with in the AF. So if that is the case why are they deserving of operational AF ranks? Where becoming a TSgt can and will never be obtained in four months. How is right to promote someone to TSgt in four months but have several other deserving airman wait years? These band members should have there own band rank and pay structure like bandee e-1 or bandee e-2 etc... or just give the whole program to a civilian operation and they be wg's or gs's. But then I am in the ANG what do I know?

Response by PO2 Richard Dismore made Sep 27 at 2015 10:35 PM

2015-09-27T22:35:54-04:00

I don't see how it could be possible. But there have been a lot of changes since my U.S. Navy Service 1971-1975 Vietnam Era. I mustered out as a 2nd Class Petty Officer-E-5 and I had passed the E-6 Exams and been accepted but I would have had to reenlisted to sew the First Class Crow. If I remember correctly I became an E-5 after about 2 years and 9 months of my 4 year hitch.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 28 at 2015 12:44 AM

2015-09-28T00:44:32-04:00

No. Just no. I think if you rate it you should get it. But after a period. There should be a TIS and TIG requirement to ensure the individual is ready for the responsibility. Ask me if I give a fuck about the band. It's about respect for the rank. Period.

Response by CPO Anthony Davis made Sep 28 at 2015 2:12 AM

2015-09-28T02:12:07-04:00

4 months tis and shes an e6?

Response by SFC Patrick Dubolyew made Sep 28 at 2015 4:29 AM

2015-09-28T04:29:05-04:00

Special circumstances allow enlistment at higher ranks... mainly for certain professionally licensed careers (ie a licensed paramedic enlisting) in order to retain such SMs. Such positions outside of medical and legal are far and few, but it would not be unimaginable a singer who could just as easy get out and make big bucks not be given the same perk to retain. Sadly such positions usually promote slowly with very limited room for promotion. Lets just say such SMs never become command NCOs.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 28 at 2015 6:16 AM

2015-09-28T06:16:17-04:00

She is most likely a member of the United States Air Force Band where your starting rank is E-6. All of the Washington Bands (The President's Own - Marine Corps, The Perishing's Own - Army, The Navy Band and Air Force Band) promote their musicians to E-6 once arrived and integrated into the unit. This is in place to attract and enlist the most talented musicians from around the country. Everyone please stop freaking out.

Response by PO2 Lucas Haney made Sep 28 at 2015 10:15 AM

2015-09-28T10:15:41-04:00

I had issues with a E-7 in the band blasting and issuing instructions to my guys. He even talked about his time in Iraq where he was in combat . Im sure he was talking about when he played the Christmas jingles at a holiday party. I think that band should be a colatera duty and not a MOS or Rate.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 28 at 2015 12:37 PM

2015-09-28T12:37:27-04:00

The Marine Corps is the same way...not just the Airforce.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 28 at 2015 4:30 PM

2015-09-28T16:30:14-04:00

One of the guys I left for basic with joined the Air Force Reserves as a member of the Air Reserve Band. Part of his enlistment contract gave him MSgt upon completion of "all required courses." He completed basic training in the band flight, went straight to tech school. Upon graduation of Tech School, took a short break, then went straight into ALS then to the NCO academy, then SNCO academy, putting on stripes 1-2 at a time along the way. Within about 6 months after joining he had completed the "required courses" and was awarded MSgt. Best part, he was back paid MSgt pay to date that he graduated basic training.

I am not saying that this is right or wrong, but it does happen. I thought it was odd, but props on the guy for being able to complete all those courses in such a short time frame. I have not spoken to the guy in several years. The last time I did, he was considering going full time active duty, however would be demoted to SSgt if he did; not sure rather he accepted this or not.

Response by SFC Bob Chapman DEng made Sep 28 at 2015 8:35 PM

2015-09-28T20:35:30-04:00

Yes.. You pass an audition and get selected for an "elite" band you pin on E-6 upon graduation from AIT.. E-4.or 5 is generally the norm- but you won't find any in Petshings Own- or the Old Guard..

You can also join as an Enlisted Club manager (degreed or experienced) and also pin on E-6... Laundry and Bath Specialist, Dental Assistant.. and many more. Prove you have experience you gtaduate AIT as an E-4 or 5

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 29 at 2015 3:02 AM

2015-09-29T03:02:07-04:00

All AF Band members, after graduation from BMT are automatically given TSgt.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 29 at 2015 3:10 AM

2015-09-29T03:10:34-04:00

I don't know if this girl is 19 or not but the truth is that most of the premier band members have a BA in music before getting selected for the spot. They reside at Bolling AFB there entire carrer. I was in the AF Honor Guard and spent a lot of time with these guys. There not coming in right out of high school and getting into the premier band. This person, if it's true, is the exception.

Response by SCPO Kenneth Myers made Sep 29 at 2015 10:43 AM

2015-09-29T10:43:20-04:00

Has to be a typo.

Response by PO2 Tony D made Sep 29 at 2015 10:48 AM

2015-09-29T10:48:32-04:00

She must have worn out her knee pads.

Response by SGT Terry White made Sep 29 at 2015 1:03 PM

2015-09-29T13:03:24-04:00

We all loved the Army Band when I was in. All dressed up the their Army Blues. Most started out as Spec-4 then 5..6, which most go to, then..7, finally as a E8 band conductor. Well none of them knew how to put on there MOPP gear and I saw one of them a E6 put her mask on backwards. OH well the cooks didn't do much better, but at least they where in the field with us, the band was not.

Response by MSgt Russell Daniels made Sep 29 at 2015 2:29 PM

2015-09-29T14:29:13-04:00

I am a retired premier bandsman from the USAF. You all speak about these exceptional personnel like they are any grunt off the street. They are truly the best of the best.
When you went in to the military, you knew very little. You strived and worked and in 8-10-12 years were fairly proficient at what you did.
The people who are accepted to the band have spent the previous 8-10-12 years of their lives becoming proficient in their jobs. They are already fully qualified, have passed a very difficult audition process (there were 13 people auditioning for my position when I was accepted). They are some of the best performing artist in America. They are truly the best of the best.
These are not ordinary airmen, they are extraordinary and you see that every time they perform.
Now you have a group of the best performing artist in the world. But they are still an Air Force squadron. In a squadron, you have first sergeant, administrative, personnel, supply, logistic, schedulers, repair personnel, computer and network technicians, budget, and an entire slew of support personnel. In the band, you have bandsmen.. Yet, the band squadron still requires all of the support that any other squadron requires (try moving a squadron of 120 personnel and equipment across the world (every day) and see how much it requires). But in addition to their grueling rehearsal and performance schedules, all of these functions are performed by bandsmen. If you take away their performances, these Airmen still have full time positions in the Air Force. They aren't doing less, they are doing more.
And lets not even talk about how their performance schedule takes them away from their homes and families. A lot of troops will complain about being deployed away from their families for too many days. This is ordinary for a bandsman. They do a lot a lot of TDY away from their homes and family.
So back to the ordinary Airman. Over the years they train, they learn, they become more proficient in their skills, and they get promoted as their skill allows. These bandsmen are already fully proficient in their skills and are thrust in a positon where they have to perform to the top of their ability from day 1. Shouldn't they be promoted to a position equivalent to their skill?
And yes, promotion to E-6 sound great. A large majority of these bandsmen hold advance degrees and would be eligible for commissioning programs. They elect to stay enlisted to be bandsmen. With the exception of the commander, there are no commissioned officers in the band.
And although they may be promoted to E-6, and most of them will be lucky enough to make E-7, there are very few opportunities to make E-8 and only a few will ever make E-9. But that's fine, they get to favorably represent the Air Force to millions of people every year. How many people have you made a favorable impression today?
So all you haters, quit hating. If you think you've got what it takes and are talented enough to be the best, then call and set an audition. The band is always looking for the best of the best.

Response by SSgt Kevin Hopkins made Sep 29 at 2015 2:37 PM

2015-09-29T14:37:26-04:00

When I served in the Air Force we all had to test for every rank promotion above SRA

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 29 at 2015 3:08 PM

2015-09-29T15:08:24-04:00

Coming from a junior enlisted I hope that when the time comes for her to lead troops she has the skill set as well. Congrats.

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 29 at 2015 3:14 PM

2015-09-29T15:14:41-04:00

Yes, most musicians start out as an NCO. I know this because I was going to be one when I joined. This is actually normal. The AF justifies it first foremost because our number one responsibility is the AF image. Secondly, the additional duties they are required to do that we hand off to other people (I.e. UDM, RA, supply, etc..).

Also, their initial rank is based off of their audition and slots needed - sort of like guard or reserve slots.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 29 at 2015 3:40 PM

2015-09-29T15:40:57-04:00

This is not a typo. The Air Force has 5 Air National Guard bands and 10 active duty bands. Out of those 10 active duty bands, 8 of them are "regional bands" and have typical promotion cycles. But...the other 2 are "premiere bands" (the Washington DC band, and the AF academy band). Some of their members are recruited from the regional bands but some very highly talented individuals audition straight into a premiere band and yes, the premiere bands start you at E-6. Don't feel bad. The USMC "president's own" (their counterpart premiere band) aren't even real Marines because they are EXEMPT FROM BOOT CAMP so basically headhunted civilians from professional orchestras wearing Marine uniforms. Neither one of these situations are as unethical as "Tops in Blue", because they are touring the world as "musicians" when they were actually recruited, trained, and paid to do other jobs in the Air Force.

Response by SSgt Jeff Thacker made Sep 29 at 2015 3:47 PM

2015-09-29T15:47:51-04:00

Wow! Massive, idiotic, horrifically bad decision! There is absolutely no excuse for her possessing that tank.

Response by SSgt Stephanie Henderson made Sep 29 at 2015 3:51 PM

2015-09-29T15:51:37-04:00

NO. And no, it shouldn't be.

Response by Sgt Richard Day made Sep 29 at 2015 4:12 PM

2015-09-29T16:12:07-04:00

No! When I was in it was nearly impossible to get a below the zone promotion. The pay raise must have been huge for a 19 year old. Not fair.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 29 at 2015 4:57 PM

2015-09-29T16:57:11-04:00

It is not that easy to make rank in the Air Force but for band member that represent the services i.e Air Force band, navy band and army band located in Washington, D.C. They are awarded E6 upon the completion of basic training these people will send the rest of their career in dc and will not move to any other assignment. Air Force also has regional bands and those band members will go through all 9 ranks just as any other service member

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 29 at 2015 5:01 PM

2015-09-29T17:01:07-04:00

Boot

Response by SPC Howard Parrish made Sep 29 at 2015 5:19 PM

2015-09-29T17:19:28-04:00

It is possible with ROTC and college credits earned in high school. My biggest issue with it is the pay she gets for that when battle troops are barely able to feed their families because they can't get promoted past E3 or Spec4 and there needs to be a limit on how long they can be in an unimportant MOS. Plenty of people in the military can play band instruments. It definitely shouldn't be a career.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 29 at 2015 5:28 PM

2015-09-29T17:28:29-04:00

Not possible.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 29 at 2015 5:34 PM

2015-09-29T17:34:22-04:00

Hey it's possible clearly haha, good for her.

Response by Sgt Jarred Boone made Sep 29 at 2015 5:42 PM

2015-09-29T17:42:11-04:00

Well I don't wanna sound mean but she must be good real good at kissing butt and doing something else other wise the chair force is more of a joke than I thought

Response by SSgt Mark Mynhier made Sep 29 at 2015 5:50 PM

2015-09-29T17:50:09-04:00

While I was never in the AF Band (I wasn't THAT good of a sax player), I had friends who were. Back in the day, individuals were given rank according to their job and did not "earn" it in the traditional way. I don't know her circumstances (or even if it is the same today), but back then I would see guys coming into the Band who had very little TIS but were E-5 and E-6 simply because that was the billet for the assignment.

Response by TSgt David Blakley made Sep 29 at 2015 6:09 PM

2015-09-29T18:09:11-04:00

This article will place the above story in perspective: https://www.reddit.com/r/AirForce/comments/3lkp3b/9_month_tsgt_in_usaf_band/ Her promotion is basically pay because everyone is TSgt and above in the AF Band. If she cross-trains to a new AFSC she will lose at least one stripe. At least that's the way I understand the story.

9 month TSgt in USAF Band? • /r/AirForce

http://www.usafband.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123449378 Apparently it's an automatic E6? Does anyone know more about this? Can she crosstrain and...

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 29 at 2015 6:26 PM

2015-09-29T18:26:15-04:00

I think I would revert back to what I was taught by some very wise NCO's when I first entered the Air Force. Concern yourself with what you are in control of to change and make better, embrace the suck that trickles from above and press on with pride.

Response by Col Jeffrey Swegel made Sep 29 at 2015 7:03 PM

2015-09-29T19:03:22-04:00

Yes. This is standard for members of "The" US Air Force Band. They are brought in as E-6s.

Response by Maj Joseph Osborne made Sep 29 at 2015 7:19 PM

2015-09-29T19:19:15-04:00

A lot of folks, primarily senior NCOs, seem to think it's ok because the band folks aren't going to lead "real" airmen. I just have to say they are real airmen and should go through a real promotion system. Otherwise, they're civilians we pay extra to and stick in a uniform for laughs. That being said, I think we need to eliminate all but the AF band in DC. Most folks I know never really thought too highly of Tops in Blue/random AF musicians. If rather encourage airmen to support the USO via donations to provide the same (or better) service.

Response by Col Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 29 at 2015 7:30 PM

2015-09-29T19:30:42-04:00

This is sad. This woman was promoted to a pay grade as an incentive. Not unlike other incentives that we all sign up for at one time or another. She will likely never carry a weapon in combat, fix a plane, or be called upon to risk her life on the battlefield. She will likely never be a supervisor, but likely will be a mentor. She will work as a representative of the Air Force in the Band until she retires or tires. Do not let her incentive be your disincentive. I rose up through the ranks (a lot of them) and would never presume to feel as an equal to an infantryman, combat engineer, special operations, or the myriad of other AFSC's or MOS's no matter what rank I possess. Those were not my jobs. I am still no better than any airman, soldier, or sailor around me. Currently, I am enjoying being the best Colonel I can be. I hope everyone of you feel like you are trying to be the best too. Earn it or get it, but you better be proud of it , because, you deserve it!

Response by TSgt Jeremy S. made Sep 29 at 2015 7:45 PM

2015-09-29T19:45:00-04:00

I was a recruiter for many years, it is correct. Band members have masters degrees in music. Once selected they do enter as E-6's which seems unfair but consider they are not officers and they probably won't see another promotion for many many years, if ever.

Response by Cpl Dalton Volk made Sep 29 at 2015 7:51 PM

2015-09-29T19:51:22-04:00

It doesnt matter.

Response by SrA Nicole Ranger made Sep 29 at 2015 9:54 PM

2015-09-29T21:54:14-04:00

It looks like she's in the Air Force band. They come in as an E-6. Not right when you're only 19 yrs old but there ya have it.

Response by SSgt Claudia Marbury made Sep 29 at 2015 11:47 PM

2015-09-29T23:47:57-04:00

I have seen this and from my understanding, as having been told by another commenter, this is typical for the AF Band. From what I understand, they wear that rank, as long as they are in the Band. If they leave to go to another AFSC, they revert to their original rank. I am also understanding that it is due to shortages of qualified folks. Many of these band members do have advanced degrees in music, so the rank-up is an incentive, much like what has always been done with medical personnel.

Response by SGT Keith Crenshaw made Sep 30 at 2015 12:22 AM

2015-09-30T00:22:22-04:00

So this article did not state how she got to be an E6 so fast. My guess is to help get her in the AF and into the band. I thought the AF had high standards and testing for NCO's. Apparently it can just be given away anymore. Nothing like the Chair force

Response by CPO Harry Coon made Sep 30 at 2015 1:12 AM

2015-09-30T01:12:38-04:00

It is the Air Farce after all. they like to play being in the Military.

Response by MSgt Jeffrey Glick made Sep 30 at 2015 4:22 AM

2015-09-30T04:22:43-04:00

Its normal for band folks.

Response by 1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 30 at 2015 5:14 AM

2015-09-30T05:14:20-04:00

Yes . When you are in the AF Band you are given rank and promoted based on your skill. You only hold the rank while in the band.

Response by WO1 Jose R. made Sep 30 at 2015 6:59 AM

2015-09-30T06:59:06-04:00

Military bands are a tradition that has been held. Staring with the drums and bugles. However, you take two soldiers side by side walking down a military post street both the same rank and you ask a question. Both are E-6, one will be able to answer the other does not have the experience or training to answer.

I believe rank is supposed to be dependent on experience. If the 19 year old knows about the military ins and outs and has the equivalent knowledge of someone who has been in a while then E-6 her. If not then train, educate, experience, then promote.

Response by Cpl Clinton Britt made Sep 30 at 2015 7:45 AM

2015-09-30T07:45:26-04:00

She bring positive image to the Air Force. Hell is they sold albums I'd buy them so...... if the they could make money off of her voice, she should get compensated for it. Just my opinion

Response by PFC Chris Sine made Sep 30 at 2015 7:52 AM

2015-09-30T07:52:28-04:00

Not a knock on females but I had a female NCO that just studied and tested all the time. She had no working knowledge of repair and she was placed in the Motor pool. All she cared about was rank.

Response by MSgt Michael Smith made Sep 30 at 2015 8:02 AM

2015-09-30T08:02:14-04:00

Yes. It absolutely is. This person is a member of the elite band out of Bolling Air Force Base, Washington, DC. The official Air Force Band. There is only one of these, and they recruit the best of the best. The people who are recruited into this band are world-class professional musicians who would not join the military without the monetary incentive to do so. I'm talking about Broadway singers, Symphony orchestra members, etc. Really talented people who could make LOTS more money outside of the military. The elite band performs at high level functions like presidential inaugurations, diplomatic visits, etc. That is why the rank is what it is. She is not a typical NCO.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 30 at 2015 8:35 AM

2015-09-30T08:35:05-04:00

That's standard fare for service bands. Entry level for service level band (Air force band, army band, etc...) Is E6... Similar to the docs that come in as O3s... Smaller echelon bands start at E5... It's how they equalize pay, at the service band level it's like being in a major symphony orchestra, so entry level is adjusted accordingly.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 30 at 2015 8:42 AM

2015-09-30T08:42:03-04:00

I'm happy for her promotion. Obviously it is due to her status in the band. Certain AFSC's/MOS's or ratings in the various services allow for this as well as certain special duties. Regardless of that fact we need to support talented individuals who represent the Air Force well. Do some of the comments from bitter career troops who mark time for retirement truly represent Air Force core values?

Response by 1stSgt Jeff Blovat made Sep 30 at 2015 9:01 AM

2015-09-30T09:01:52-04:00

There may be a special provision that allows such special promotions in a career field that positively promotes the USAF in such a light. I do not know. In the NYANG, I have seen Airmen with 10 years service put on MSgt. But 4 months TIS putting on TSgt? Never before seen by myself. If the USAF equates a college degree or real life experience to that of awarding E-6, there you go...... Still new to me...

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 30 at 2015 9:56 AM

2015-09-30T09:56:04-04:00

This is very typical and it's only for the pay. AF band members won't get promoted until they reached the necessary TIS requirements as well as the PME requirement. It's just like the medical. Some Dr's come in as LtCol because of their specialty.

Response by TSgt Erica Claus-numsali made Sep 30 at 2015 10:10 AM

2015-09-30T10:10:19-04:00

It was given to her only because she became a band member, but it irked me that she didn't earn it like the rest of us earning our ranks while we served many years in the military.

Response by Maj Garau Francis made Sep 30 at 2015 10:42 AM

2015-09-30T10:42:17-04:00

My family of masonic tradition to age of fourteen I enroling in varius university , with a thesi in miltary sciences then rewitten, sold in bookstore, I server in CIA in 1970 -1979, six years of wars, my father Joseph Gen. In Air Force , my great-grandmother Grimaldi was a great-grandson of President John Adams

Response by SFC Joya Lord made Sep 30 at 2015 12:03 PM

2015-09-30T12:03:36-04:00

It's a horrible lapse in judgment. Who cares if the AF has "great vocalists"? Really, if you need someone competent to sing the National Anthem, you can find them out there, for pay, as a consultant, on an as-needed basis, and without incurring the full-time pay, benefits, housing, feeding, uniform cost, and eventual lifetime retirement and TRICARE costs.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 30 at 2015 12:24 PM

2015-09-30T12:24:03-04:00

Shouldn't the incintive come from bonus pay, not rapid promotions? She hasn't been in long enough to be groomed for the responsibility associated with that rank.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 30 at 2015 1:57 PM

2015-09-30T13:57:29-04:00

I'm not sure how many people will have to test against her in her career field - but I'm pretty sure I never will have to compete for a stripe against her. It's good PR for the front person of the band to wear the stripes. That's all. I don't care if she earned her stripes or not, because I know I did.

Response by 1stSgt John Stevenson made Sep 30 at 2015 1:59 PM

2015-09-30T13:59:15-04:00

Typo. Need 5or 6 Years

Response by MSgt Mark Muna made Sep 30 at 2015 3:10 PM

2015-09-30T15:10:42-04:00

Do away with the AF band and expand Tops In Blue

Response by SSgt Clifton Hargus made Sep 30 at 2015 3:30 PM

2015-09-30T15:30:08-04:00

This is the same as any other of the services' main ceremonial bands. The President's Own (Marine Band) members are all a minimum rank of SSgt (E-6). It's for the PR and uniformity of the unit and the mission they perform. Is it perfect? Hardly. But, it is what it is. If this "girl" had the abilities to make such a unit (the top Air Force band) then she would've immediately attained the E-6 pay grade. You don't have to agree with it. I served in one of the Marine Corps' field bands before going into the air wing and serving as a CH-46E crew chief. I knew that a majority of those President's Own band members hadn't even been to basic training. Yes, that's right. But the positions they hold are purely ceremonial. They are true members of the military, having to adhere to all standards and regulations, but none of them will ever see anything close to a deployment or combat unless they were to leave those top band units and go somewhere else. It is somewhat of a slap in the face to those of us who've been through boot camp, combat training, and multiple combat deployments. But some people would say the same thing about some other MOS's out there amongst our services. They all serve a purpose, whether you agree with it or not.

Response by MSgt Dwight Alexander made Sep 30 at 2015 4:06 PM

2015-09-30T16:06:54-04:00

i would not think so

Response by SSG Kevin Crozier made Sep 30 at 2015 6:23 PM

2015-09-30T18:23:49-04:00

I don't think anyone in a band needs to have a rank about E4 or E5. all they do is play stupid music. They don't go into harms way, don't lead soldiers, etc. Get rid of them and keep more combat soldiers

Response by PO2 Jeremiah Garwick made Sep 30 at 2015 7:35 PM

2015-09-30T19:35:30-04:00

Miltary musicians are a very high calling. Though You can be a military service bandmen starting as an E1 to E3, if You pass an audition to get in the elite band they start the rank at E6. But it is extremely difficult to get accepted in the elite band. I know the Airforce Band service band expect you to have a Bachelors Degree or perform as well as a bachelor's degree in music holding musician to join in as a regular enlisted (E1-E3), And if you make it in the Elite band you're performing at a Master's Degree Level or Better. Now though she seems young she is a prodigy and I wouldn't doubt that she has been studying music since she was in preschool.. Thats about 15 years of music experience. She is a rock star. The Military musicians do not let you join the service as an officer. Musician officers have to enlist and perform at a certain level before they goto officer training. Airforce may be different. I started in 5th grade, and passed an audition to be in the Navy Band after I had completed High school and two years of music in college. Quite a few members at my school had MASTERS and bachelor degrees in music. and they were started at E3. Part of the reason they offer the e6 is to entice talented musicians to join (for lower pay) than they could make as a civilian. She will probably do her 4 years and go sign a record deal. Ask Taylor Swift if she would have rather accepted 4 years at E6 pay or a multimillion dollar recording contract..

Response by LCDR Jeremy Huff made Sep 30 at 2015 8:09 PM

2015-09-30T20:09:11-04:00

(Note I make this in complete sarcasm, and nothing personal against this airman...just showing the rogue progressive insanity of our current regime). Most likely she has no idea about our Constitution, possibly transgendered, maybe bisexual, hates America deep down, and is for the Insane Iran Nuke deal...the Pentagon and White House after finding this out said "promote her now."

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 30 at 2015 8:51 PM

2015-09-30T20:51:43-04:00

My question is why did she promote to e-6 so quickly? As far as people being upset over this, I fully agree. It seems wrong for someone to gain rank, pay, and responsibilities so quickly. 4 months TIS? Really? Half of that was in basic training! This just seems wrong and unfair to people who have worked WAY harder to get to the rank they have.

Response by SGT Michael Glenn made Sep 30 at 2015 9:29 PM

2015-09-30T21:29:53-04:00

I have seen some pretty wicked answers both pro and con and can only say this.... Let me get my PopCorn !!!! Salt and butter anyone???

Response by MSgt Greg Szczepaniak made Oct 1 at 2015 12:43 AM

2015-10-01T00:43:09-04:00

I see many a comment about how her rank doesn't matter because she is a band member and not "really" in the military. BULLSHIT!!! She is in the Air Force and not in Hollywood. If she wants that then she should go try out for Americas Got Talent or a similar show. There are rules about minimum time in grade and service that we all had to follow. She may be talented as a singer but that does not translate to the military. The Air Forces job is to shoot bad guys out of the sky and drop bombs on people and kill them. The Air Force does not exist to sing happy songs and hold hands and sing Spongebob songs. Let's not lose focus on the mission.

Response by CPL Barry Bridges made Oct 1 at 2015 1:31 AM

2015-10-01T01:31:59-04:00

I don't know of anyone that served their country that would turn down a promotion. This is why she was handed the rank......https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGdWkl9M_TY

"American Airman" - Max Impact

Download FREE MP3 here: https://soundcloud.com/theusafband/max-impact-american-airman The U.S. Air Force Band's Max Impact has made unique contributions to o...

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 1 at 2015 4:07 AM

2015-10-01T04:07:58-04:00

Since I'm detailed as a army recruiter right now I can tell you if you pass the try outs for the all army band you get automatic E-6 Promotion 6 months after job training so yes it's possible in the Army

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 1 at 2015 5:00 AM

2015-10-01T05:00:02-04:00

It's no different then the medical field getting auto promoted through officer ranks for their medical degrees under direct comission.

Response by SSgt Michael Zuniga made Oct 1 at 2015 5:33 AM

2015-10-01T05:33:56-04:00

After first seeing this story I was a little shocked and almost did not believe it. I have been out of the military for 10 years now. I do remember the challenges of promotions and some were selected at a faster pace than others. There is much more than meets the eye when determining a promotion. I will tell you this, in the civilian world it is who you know and how hard you are willing to work. It's about being dedicated to your professional career and achieving your goals. I have moved up the chain quickly since I was hired on with my current employer. I say if this girl has proven herself to out do others who have been in for 10-15 years, why not pay her what she is worth? Right? Why is it acceptable to promote someone based on seniority if they have no real skill for that position? Managers are not always the most senior people. I have seen kids straight out of college manage people in their career field that have been working for many years. It's about talent. I don't know this woman, but we should not judge from the outside looking in. She could be some kind of prodigy for all we know. I say congrats to her. Her parents should be proud. We should all view this as an opportunity to learn how a young Airman was able to prove her talents in order to move up in the ranks so quickly. She should be a mentor to those who wish to follow in her footsteps. In order to be a great leader, we must first understands what it means to be a great follower. She obviously listened to advice from her leadership and in return, she is now in a position to lead others. People are always going to jealous of what others have accomplished if they have been unsuccessful themselves. Take a look at yourself and find out what has held you back and do something positive to change your path. There is always a way, we just have to be willing to accept the challenges to get there.

Response by CPT Zachary Brooks made Oct 1 at 2015 6:06 AM

2015-10-01T06:06:56-04:00

So being in a band makes you more of a hero than stopping violent attackers on trains in France? At least that is how this can be interpreted due to the reward of stopping an attacker being met with a promotion.

Response by PO3 Dr. Todd Marquez, PT, DPT, MA made Oct 1 at 2015 6:17 AM

2015-10-01T06:17:45-04:00

I really don't understand the purpose of musicians in the service. They spend their time putting on shows for civilians more than half the time anyways. They should be civilians themselves...and perhaps that would award them more pay anyhow. However, when I see an E6 musician making more money than an E1 in combat I have a problem with that.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 1 at 2015 7:16 AM

2015-10-01T07:16:11-04:00

Good for her. And good for the Air Force.

Response by SrA Jeffery Guntle made Oct 1 at 2015 8:51 AM

2015-10-01T08:51:09-04:00

A bachelor's degree can open many doors and a masters as well. But going through the ranks and to be called sergeant, I feel that a person needs to mature into that rank. NCOs are the backbone for the military.

Response by MSG Nathan Sommers made Oct 1 at 2015 11:05 AM

2015-10-01T11:05:35-04:00

I love reading the vacuous comments on this thread. The accelerated promotion system is standard for the DC premiere military bands. All of them. Hell, the President's Own Marine Corps band doesn't even go to basic training. The military wants superior musicians, especially in the DC area, that are trained. Most have their undergrad degrees already, and many have masters and doctoral degrees. The military doesn't have to pay to train them, and they can recruit the best talent. These musicians should be officers, with the level of skill and training they bring. Unfortunately the military can't afford to pay them at the officer grade. I served for 26 yrs proudly, and retired as an E-8 from the U.S. Army Chorus. I spent 8 yrs in the Air Force Band in DC as well. Fabulous musicians and airmen. Whiners and crybabies about how "unfair" the system is should go home.

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 1 at 2015 2:42 PM

2015-10-01T14:42:31-04:00

The Marine Corps band is the same way. They audition professional musicians and after the initial training, they are promoted to SSgt (E6). Typically they are highly trained and have degrees. Yeah, my peers and I were frustrated, but those folks are somewhat insulated from the rest of us.

Response by Timothy Lyden made Oct 1 at 2015 3:11 PM

2015-10-01T15:11:41-04:00

Any Soldier that is hired for a special band in the DC area is automatically a staff sergeant. Very true for the Army and probably for all services. There were probably hundreds of applications for one position. Don't take anything away from this Airman

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 1 at 2015 7:13 PM

2015-10-01T19:13:12-04:00

Did we really have to put up a picture of her? I mean its one thing to talk about the idea of someone being promoted too quickly, but when you put her picture up then you are talking about her.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 1 at 2015 9:58 PM

2015-10-01T21:58:12-04:00

Majority of our Airman have earned the right to wear the rank, which comes with experience, knowledge and dedication. The definition of an NCO is clearly defined In the Enlisted Force Structure! There are Airman everyday that put their lives at risks that are deserving of Step promotion, but it's our jobs to do just that. So, why is this Airman able to bypass this system for doing her everyday job? What's the point of that little brown book and the responsibility that comes with it? Why does it only apply to some of us?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 2 at 2015 12:25 AM

2015-10-02T00:25:35-04:00

Read this *drops mic* she's clearly talented and deserving of the rank to get these reviews. Her job is to be a musician in the Air Force and she is clearly going above the standard. You're not chief of staff or secretary of the Air Force

STAY IN YOUR LANE.

" She's the youngest technical sergeant in the Air Force but brings a wealth of musical experience to The U.S. Air Force Band. Recently, she performed at the 2015 Air Force Charity Ball in front of the chief of staff of the Air Force and the secretary of the Air Force, receiving rave reviews from both."

Response by Cpl David Sanchez made Oct 2 at 2015 4:49 AM

2015-10-02T04:49:49-04:00

So all i need to do is learn how to play the trumpet and i can get promoted like this chick?

Response by SMSgt Cary Baker made Oct 2 at 2015 4:57 AM

2015-10-02T04:57:03-04:00

I have heard of this happening before. In my AFSC, it's very possible to promote quickly, but you have to apply yourself - about 7-8 years for TSgt. This young lady has been promoted to TSgt in just a few months - unacceptable in my book. What I don't understand, how is it she promoted so quickly and hasn't completed all her PME? How does this work? She doesn't have the slightest idea how to lead, supervise or mentor airman. As a TSgt, you are the "Technical Expert" in your AFSC. Is there a specific AFSC for Band? I believe this is an injustice to the promotion system, injustice to the NCO corp, and most importantly, an injustice to this young lady. Doesn't matter where she goes in life, she will have no credibility with her fellow airman and NCOs. The AF has set her for failure. I would not want to be in her shoes. However, if someone would have offered that to me when I was an airman, I would have jumped all over it.

Response by SGT Andrew Iverson made Oct 2 at 2015 7:13 AM

2015-10-02T07:13:00-04:00

Pathetic, and we wonder why the hair force has all its problems and the other branches have no respect for it.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 2 at 2015 7:17 AM

2015-10-02T07:17:03-04:00

Chair force!!

Response by MCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 2 at 2015 9:32 AM

2015-10-02T09:32:15-04:00

Didn't read all the responses so excuse me if someone already answered. The USCG brings band members in as E-6 because the MU rating is very small and advancements are rare. They also have tryouts for the positions and are very competitive and selective.I understand the chagrine of personnel who have an expectation of leadership acumen from an E-6, however, it is rare that our band members are involved with things outside of their rating. The band members that I have met are consumate professionals and have learned through osmosis and required leadership schools to assimilate as effective leaders afetr a short time on AD.

Response by CMSgt Dave Patterson made Oct 2 at 2015 10:35 AM

2015-10-02T10:35:42-04:00

Yes, read the instructions folks. All Band member start as TSgts. Unlike a regular enlistment, you audition to join. If you are an E-2 and think you have talent...audition. Bands are a formal part of customs and courtesies, they do more than make good music for the troops. They provide music for funerals, diplomats, presidential events to name just a few.

Response by SGT Jason Clair made Oct 2 at 2015 11:39 AM

2015-10-02T11:39:40-04:00

I have no issue with her getting promoted but by regulation how is she that rank. She does not meet the minimal requirements of service time

Response by SGT Jason Clair made Oct 2 at 2015 11:44 AM

2015-10-02T11:44:37-04:00

By regulation, is it possible for her to get E-6 for the time in service that she has served? Why she was promoted is irrelevant except for those involved in her chain of command.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 2 at 2015 5:02 PM

2015-10-02T17:02:12-04:00

All Air Force band members are given E6...its been that way for a long time. Everyone needs to quit worrying about this Airman, who won't supervise anyone anyway, and worry about themselves. If you have some majestic musical ability apply for the band and see what happens - is it fair that she's 19 and makes as much money as me? Yes it is because she could be somewhere else making mad money and I sure as hell can't sing like that. It is just like any other recruiting tool - pay out some money to ensure you can get talented people to stick around. This has been happening for years and I heard about it in basic - quit griping and get back to work!

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 2 at 2015 5:30 PM

2015-10-02T17:30:21-04:00

So, did she even attend basic training? MOS training? Or was this like a direct join to the band??

Response by SPC Christopher Perrien made Oct 2 at 2015 6:04 PM

2015-10-02T18:04:47-04:00

Years back that was possible in the Army bands too. I met E-6's with 2 years in. And yes the air force, E-5 was possible/typical in two years. We (detail from a tank company)once spent a few weeks on an airbase loading the brigade for NTC. Lotta fun, good chow, and nice Air Chicks, and yea E-5 , 2 years.
Their barracks rooms looked like a college or teenage girl room (cute little bears on shelfs ,pink paint, etc.), and smelled that wonderful smell of baby power, just like girls' rooms back in High School.

Yea , the Air Force looked to be a great way to spend time in the Military without being out in the mud 6-8 months a year, no hard work, and getting half a day to go to college classes, and no chicks in sight.

Perhaps We made an error? Nah.

Response by SPC Christopher Perrien made Oct 2 at 2015 6:12 PM

2015-10-02T18:12:26-04:00

Also note it is easily possible or has in the past, if someone had a lot of college credits or a degree. E-5 with an ASAP to E-6 was possible coming out of basic/ait In the Army.Having a high degree of certifiable skill in an instrument , is what Military bands want/need, not teaching someone how to play. So years playing and possible a degree in the same could easily warrant such a rank. And the the higher pay , is necessary for retention of such people.

Response by CPL Evin Peters made Oct 2 at 2015 8:42 PM

2015-10-02T20:42:02-04:00

I think this is outrageous and disrespectful. This is the military normalizing women in what women demand. I have seen to many great combat soldiers who deserve a promotion. All of them have now lost thier jobs due to a "down grade". I would want my sergeants wisdom, and not a opinion.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 2 at 2015 11:08 PM

2015-10-02T23:08:22-04:00

This is the reason I stopped serving the military! As an aircraft mechanic I had very good skills, a degree, an FAA Airframe and Powerplant rating I was a seven level. After twelve years with only one real promotion that's E-5 I walked away from it all. I saw favoritism in the system allowing other to achieve rank while most of our AFSC never had a chance. This is the best way for the USAF to loose people.

Response by SSgt Rob Joswiak made Oct 2 at 2015 11:28 PM

2015-10-02T23:28:48-04:00

SMSgt Tony Barnes I could not disagree more, but the awesomeness of your stache will not allow me.

Robin Olds is very proud somewhere these days!

Response by PO2 Gregg Sutton made Oct 3 at 2015 6:19 AM

2015-10-03T06:19:23-04:00

Good for her. Not only is it a great feat, but it's even harder for women in any field to advance at all, let alone to e6 so quickly... I made e5 my first time around at the age of 21, took the exam for e6 and passed it, but got out of the service for family emergency... However I was on th road ro be a 6 year chief... Probably wouldn't have picked it up first time around. But point is if u are good at what u do, and there is the chance for advancemtnt, of course u take it, no matter what u age or job... If she didn't deserve it, they wouldn't have given her the position. It's simple as that.

Response by SSgt Tamita Kea made Oct 3 at 2015 9:51 AM

2015-10-03T09:51:30-04:00

Wait..she's 19!? That doesn't sound right! I can't tell you the countless times me and others test for rank, fall just short of the cutoff score, then we have to get back on the ol' promo horse and try again for next year. Even if this IS the band, this is BS to me! If that's the case, she should be a SrA at the most!

Response by LCpl Mike Finnegan made Oct 3 at 2015 10:17 AM

2015-10-03T10:17:39-04:00

someone is thinking with their little head this is insulting to actual Air Force personnel

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 3 at 2015 11:01 AM

2015-10-03T11:01:56-04:00

Some real perspective on this issue: The USAF Band, Washington, DC is a highly specialized group of musician Airmen. Their skills require many years of dedicated training and experience prior to joining the AF. The band is one of, if not the only, Air Force career fields that has no tech school for their enlisted. It would be prohibitively expensive and time consuming to take a beginning musician (or even moderately experienced) to world class professional status...this doesn't even take into account the natural talent of musicians that rise above the rest in the process of development. To gain their positions with the band, our members have won nation-wide auditions (over hundreds of applicants). Most have played professionally for at least a decade, as well as being educated at many of the top university music schools and conservatories. Almost all have Bachelors Degrees...many have Masters Degrees and even Doctorates. In turn, most are asked by their recruiters and MTI's "Why aren't you going to OTS instead of being enlisted?" It's because they have a passion for what they do. Their mission requires a minimum of a 7-level job skills (in Air Force terms)...it's why they come in with a 7-level. Many members find themselves coming to the band, and within their first few days, performing at the White House for the President and top leaders of the world. It's a no fail top performance environment from day one. To attract the highest caliber musicians to take on this high profile mission, the Air Force (as well as all service branches in DC) offer their members E-6. The TSgt in this photo has a gift beyond her years, and won a national audition. She was a contender on American Idol at the time, and chose to not continue after being invited to Hollywood in order to serve her country. She has already co-written a song for the Air Force that has gone viral and impacted literally millions across the nation and the globe, bringing extraordinary credit and positive public awareness for the what the rest of the amazing men and women of the USAF do everyday. Her singular impact for the USAF has already been greater in a few months than what most experience in an entire career. Thank you all for your service.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 3 at 2015 11:52 AM

2015-10-03T11:52:48-04:00

I will never understand the insanity that is the AF Promotion System. Make up a Policy and then disregard it to fill a vital position of Band Singer.

WHATEVER

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 3 at 2015 11:54 AM

2015-10-03T11:54:15-04:00

She may have something the service needs , something important. She is in the right place at the right time. That's all , good for her.

Response by Cpl Isaac Park made Oct 3 at 2015 1:25 PM

2015-10-03T13:25:39-04:00

Well. An E6 in one occupational field has different responsibilities than an E6 in another field. I firmly believe that rank is handed out accordingly to the best of the commands knowledge of the individual's capability. That being said, the command knows only what the individual chooses to show. What I'm trying to say is: a 19 year old can do the responsibilities of an E6 in the band, I doubt she could perform the responsibilities of an E6 in whatever is the air force's equivalent to the infantry. Even though E6s of different occupations shoulder different weights of burden doesn't mean they deserve any less respect based on their occupation. Shit. I'm happy for her. She's probably really loving the air force and that's probably the kind of person that the military needs. Those who love it because they were well received instead of the bitter angry ones that gave more than their all and received less than gratitude from their superiors.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Oct 4 at 2015 7:14 PM

2015-10-04T19:14:30-04:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miKs4mpyChQ

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 5 at 2015 12:30 AM

2015-10-05T00:30:27-04:00

Embarrassment to the NCO Corp; unless she was a CEO or equivalent along those lines. She should not be an NCO. Imagine a PV1 coming into the Army from the street, fresh out of high school and tasked to lead soldiers into combat as a SSG/Platoon SGT.

Perhaps we don't the know the full story but that's my initial take on this.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Oct 5 at 2015 2:06 AM

2015-10-05T02:06:40-04:00

Must be nice. At that rate, she will be retiring as a 12 Star General and making my retirement pay look like peanuts. Oh wait........nevermind.

Response by MSG Greg Kelly made Oct 5 at 2015 7:25 AM

2015-10-05T07:25:53-04:00

WTFO that's crazy it maybe the band but band members should still follow the AF promotion ladder. which should include what ever training and time in grade. It does not look good for her or her chain of command.

Response by CPO Travis Holley made Oct 5 at 2015 10:09 AM

2015-10-05T10:09:05-04:00

Think about the fact that, "4 months TIS" and she is on stage, with a microphone in her hand, singing to civilians. Probably in another country or at a major brass level event. I would be sitting in front of an Admiral babbling incoherently about why I should keep my anchor if I had put an Engine Mechanic with "4 months TIS" in charge of an inspection of an aircraft engine without supervision right before an airstrike on foreign soil. Just a little reminder that the Rank for Civilian experience program is a valid program. This woman has probably been in intense voice training since she started walking. If she was trusted and allowed to be on that stage, then there is definitely a damn good reason they promoted her to E6 upon joining

Response by SPC Ryan Walker made Oct 5 at 2015 4:44 PM

2015-10-05T16:44:12-04:00

Well first off I would like to recognize the best of the Air Force i.e Pararescue and Fighter Piolets you are the only real warriors the Air Force has, and you mostly work for Army and Marines, with respect. Now let's be honest the word," Airman or Airwoman," stems from Latin meaning," Fake soldier." No one outside of the Chair Force really cares its not like she'll be commanding troops in combat. She's pretend like the majority of the Chair Force," Except for those mentioned earlier." Sorry guys, but when you take a P.T test on an exercise bike credibility just fly's out the window. So, just be patient eventually most Air People will be promoted, for excellence in remedial paperwork. Charlie Mike, and fly a kite

Response by SSgt Richard Lott made Oct 6 at 2015 5:39 PM

2015-10-06T17:39:55-04:00

Guess that is why when you see the band it looks like a zebra convention more stripes than in a zoo

Response by SGT Paul Nichols made Oct 6 at 2015 5:56 PM

2015-10-06T17:56:38-04:00

Stop your belly aching maybe she is just good at what she does :)

Response by Sgt Harold Flowers made Oct 6 at 2015 6:03 PM

2015-10-06T18:03:14-04:00

When I was in most of us were still E4 at almost 10 years, so it is a huge slap in the face to us who sold our blood to put diapers on our children, but I have a different opinion on the whole rank structure, if I had my way, no one would become and officer unless he or she had served as enlisted for a certain time, if you are going to lead me, I want to know you absolutely walked in my shoes.

Response by SSgt Brad Bohning made Oct 6 at 2015 7:34 PM

2015-10-06T19:34:37-04:00

This is BS!!!

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 6 at 2015 7:48 PM

2015-10-06T19:48:22-04:00

Air force is a business like everything else I guess. Obviously rank and commitment are only viable in the real military jobs. This is embarrassing for all branches because all the branches do it.

Response by Amn Michael McClung made Oct 6 at 2015 8:02 PM

2015-10-06T20:02:46-04:00

Hey, at least she went to boot.

President's Own Marine Band members don't even do that.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 6 at 2015 8:27 PM

2015-10-06T20:27:26-04:00

I understand that a musician is a specialty the Air Force wants for morale, but rank is earned. CCT is a specialty the Air Force needs, but you don't see them joining in at TSgt. Now if the Air Force wanted to give them a signing bonus, reenlistment bonus, or even SDAP, fine. That how you entice someone to that career. NOT giving away something that everyone else has spent years trying to earn. This is disgusting and a slap in the for all Airmen that have earned that rank. An airmen can stop a terrorist attack on a train in a different country, risking his life, and get step promoted to SSgt. Earned with his blood. 19yr old can sing, TSgt.

I've only been in for 13 years, so what do I know.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 7 at 2015 1:03 AM

2015-10-07T01:03:30-04:00

I just had my retirement ceremony this past thursday so I don't have much to offer than that important people posting negativity only make themselves look bad. Someone else here replied that you should focus on your own scope or lane and I'm in total agreeance with.

Response by SrA Angel H made Oct 7 at 2015 2:07 AM

2015-10-07T02:07:38-04:00

Not possible

Response by SGT Kevin Newman made Oct 7 at 2015 5:04 AM

2015-10-07T05:04:17-04:00

I know how proud I was when I had been awarded Sgt. E-5, during my Army service. This is a slap in the face to those who worked ling & hard to receive the grade the "ole fashioned" way.

Response by PO1 Nathan Watts made Oct 7 at 2015 8:50 AM

2015-10-07T08:50:59-04:00

I really don't care what anyone's opinion is on this - and the argument "other musicians on the outside struggle to make ends meet so this is a great way for them to get exposure and still get decent pay" has absolutely zero merit.
The military does not exist to promote and create the next Billy Joel or Kanye West. We exist to put warheads on foreheads, regardless of branch.
As I have said many times - "There are service-members, and then there are civilians with rent to own uniforms with 5 dollar trinkets on their collars."
The only thing this article does is bolster and reinforce that statement.

Response by SSG Mannix Brooks made Oct 7 at 2015 3:29 PM

2015-10-07T15:29:47-04:00

As long as they are not put in a position to be in charge of another MOS it is basically ceremonial and only for looks but the problem is it's still a real rank everyone else has to work for. In this case it's the age that people take issue with but think about this if someone in civilian life is a board certified surgeon and goes to OCS they are not coming in as a 2LT but no one will take issue because of the age and experience. In both cases neither earn the rank within the military but one has skills that are needed not only on the battlefield but everywhere else too and the other is strictly for ceremonies/entertainment. The band is in the military but only on the fringe so nothing to be concerned with as they are not in competition for anyone else's stripes.

Response by LT Jonathan Brouillette made Oct 7 at 2015 8:34 PM

2015-10-07T20:34:12-04:00

Choose your rate, choose your fate!!!

Response by SPC Sean Barney made Oct 8 at 2015 2:34 AM

2015-10-08T02:34:47-04:00

I don't really have an issue with somebody getting a position so they are paid what they would get as a civilian with their skill set but the issue comes in when you have people who use that ring to get what they want and you have somebody brand new in the band with E 6 Authority stop bullying other enlisted troops around or below their rank in demanding special treatment because of their ring because they're new and don't understand what it means to earn anything that's when there's a problem with this

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 8 at 2015 12:36 PM

2015-10-08T12:36:33-04:00

She's still a boot.

Response by Sgt Andrew Alexander made Oct 8 at 2015 1:29 PM

2015-10-08T13:29:53-04:00

One of my friends is an E-5, 11 years TIS, has a wife and two kids, deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan, never been in trouble and is getting forced out of the Marine Corps for not getting selected for E-6. Glad to see the Air Force holds people to the same standards as the rest of the Armed Forces.

Response by Cpl Cody Gilbert made Oct 8 at 2015 4:44 PM

2015-10-08T16:44:20-04:00

A 19 year old being an E-6 is absurd! At the most this airman has 2 years in service. A Marine that makes E-6 in 6 years is almost unheard of and the ones that do do that are the usually older when they enlist there is certain maturity that should come with a SNCO

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 8 at 2015 5:32 PM

2015-10-08T17:32:41-04:00

I'm definitely late getting to this thread, and as of the time of me typing this, there are 426 responses, and I'm not going back to read them all. So if this was already mentioned....sorry.

So, think of this... a member has attained their Bachelors or Masters degree and decides to enter the AF--usually as a 2ND LT!! Okay, Capt in critical career fields.

This woman has at least the same educational background, went through a complete interview and audition process, and wishes only to perform for all of you around the world, and is only a TSgt!! TDY's for this individual are probably unending whereas the rest of us (in the AF) would likely experience a TDY once or twice a year.

I read some comments about reluctancy to take orders from her. Seriously?--on two counts! One, are you also in the band where she would likely give you direction? If so, you would understand and know the drill. Otherwise, what do think the likelihood of that would be? Second--referring to my second paragraph above--you would take direction from a newly assigned "butter-bar" with the same education background but lack of military background. Example? One of my first transportation duty officers--a newly assigned 2nd Lt.--had her degree in Marine Biology!

Don't be haters because you didn't pursue a music degree before coming to the AF and get awarded TSgt after basic because that's worse than being a hater because you didn't pursue a law degree, or business management degree, or even a Marine Biology degree, and being a 2nd Lt. Instead, if you have kids that have an interest in going in the military, make sure they get their degrees FIRST! As you now see (20/20 hindsight), it makes a big difference!

Response by PO1 Steven Ewing made Oct 9 at 2015 1:15 PM

2015-10-09T13:15:53-04:00

When I was going through AFTA at NATTC Memphis in the mid 70s there was an instructor that was E-6 under 4, but he was in his mid 20s and had been a civilian tech and had a EE degree before enlisting. I made E-6 in just under 6 years.

Response by SPC Richard Paloma made Oct 9 at 2015 5:12 PM

2015-10-09T17:12:49-04:00

This is what I got from a USAF press release. Says she's been in since 1990 - How are you getting 19 yrs. old?
"Master Sgt. Shani Prewitt is a vocalist with the Max Impact, The United States Air Force Band, Washington, D.C. Originally from Staunton, Va., her career in the Air Force began in 1990."

Response by SSG Delanda Hunt made Oct 9 at 2015 5:32 PM

2015-10-09T17:32:52-04:00

way to fast, slow it down.

Response by SMSgt Robin Frank made Oct 9 at 2015 9:17 PM

2015-10-09T21:17:20-04:00

If its the photo with the little girl the MSgt has the old stripes on these are not TSgt stripes or is the story something different

Response by SrA David Steyer made Oct 9 at 2015 9:53 PM

2015-10-09T21:53:30-04:00

All the branches have bands that allow people to come in as E6. I don't have a problem with the individual member, and good for her the system allows it. However I do have a problem with the system. Why do we even need professional musicians for the bands anymore? If we can pull trainees to do band in basic training, and they aren't the caliber of a professional musician and are good enough for a basic training graduation where you have an MTI/DS/RTC/DI putting the fear into you, and there are various DV's doing the oath and/or at the ceremony every week, why can't we use that same caliber of musicians for the rest of the military outside of BMT? Why do the branches even require BMT, basic or boot camp for band members, but not the Marines?

The Marines of all branches doesn't require boot camp for the Marines Own, and if that lack of boot camp it is good enough for them I don't see why the other branches can't follow suit. I have heard it is required if they are no longer qualified or need to retrain, but my thing is... if they are no longer qualified for the band or want to do something else, then they should be shown the door.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 9 at 2015 11:49 PM

2015-10-09T23:49:35-04:00

I'm sure she deserved the rank a lot more then some Ssgt with 3 or 4 deployments away from his/her family who has been in for years and has their own airmen they are actual responsible for.

Response by SFC Mark Hodges made Oct 10 at 2015 10:57 PM

2015-10-10T22:57:15-04:00

Maybe this was like the Army has; stripes for skills??!

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 11 at 2015 12:28 AM

2015-10-11T00:28:35-04:00

I believe that they give advance grade due to their skills in order to attract outstanding musicians. This is not unique to musicians. The military has civilian-acquired skills for people skills like computers, engineering where they go in at an advanced grade. In the officer grades, doctors and dentists start at O-3 sometimes even O-4 if experienced and board-certified specialist.

Response by 1SG Robert E White made Oct 11 at 2015 3:48 AM

2015-10-11T03:48:12-04:00

Thus is policy for all the services , this Tech SGTight have opted to join "Pershing Own" USArmy Band as an E-6 etc they are talented musicians and must audition etc , be able to read music in most cases depending on what they are trying out for. They are filling a need in a time honored corp with ability that most only dream of possessing period , it's the same way we recruit Doctors , nurses, lawyers pilots

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 11 at 2015 7:05 AM

2015-10-11T07:05:27-04:00

This is ridiculous. In my experience in the Army we have higher expectations for SSG's than we do a 2LT.... At least until the LT proves otherwise...

Response by SFC Curtis Brady made Oct 18 at 2015 10:39 PM

2015-10-18T22:39:54-04:00

This is why:
https://www.facebook.com/USAFBand/videos/ [login to see] 091121/

"American Airman" - Max Impact - The United States Air Force Band | Facebook

It's here! The world premiere of USAF Band Max Impact's newest original song "American Airman."United States Air Force

Response by SFC Curtis Brady made Nov 7 at 2015 1:18 AM

2015-11-07T01:18:06-05:00

A small group from The United States Army Field Band will be on Conan this Wednesday the 11th of November. They will be there as part of their mission to represent American service members, including all of you who have seen fit to talk a bunch of crap about military musicians and bands--a subject that most of you haven't got the first clue about. You think you know, but you really don't, so why don't you educate yourselves and show them some support in return instead of acting like a bunch of asshatts?

http://teamcoco.com/schedule

Conan Show Guests Schedule: November 9 - 12, 2015 @ TeamCoco.com

Official site of Team Coco & Conan O'Brien - watch Conan full episodes, get the latest news about Conan on TBS, watch Conan videos, Conan on the intertubes, fan sneak peeks, plus sundry worthless hilarity.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2016 10:52 AM

2016-01-09T10:52:14-05:00

I honestly don't believe in this method of promotion. For those of us who actually work hard in the military, being in band feels more like a special duty job, then a career. I personally would just have tryouts for those who would like this kind of opportunity. They could serve in this position as a special assignment. But to promote members who haven't put in the same amount of time and have not earned the rank in my opinion is really insulting.

Response by SSgt Isidro Galguera made Apr 16 at 2016 10:48 AM

2016-04-16T10:48:12-04:00

Well as a Marine Staff Sergeant I grew in the Marines to lead and expected to lead and take care of the troops. If they want to be band members instead of military service members then go to Hollywood. I just can't see troops just doing "band" an noting else. Even the Marine band members had to shoot, train, and deploy not only as musicians, but as Marines. Did she promote fast because she is such a great singer at her "band" MOS???? Enough said, sorry.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 16 at 2016 11:16 PM

2016-09-16T23:16:12-04:00

30-year retiree here with a music degree who spent a short time as a bands officer. This one's real simple folks: for the "premier bands" in all services, there is a level of music professionalism required that we simply won't get unless we hire it at E-6. Whether we SHOULD have premier bands that require that level may be subject to debate, but the fact that the level requires hiring at advanced grade is beyond reasonable debate by those aware of all of the relevant facts.

Response by SP5 Ford Ross made Sep 22 at 2016 1:57 PM

2016-09-22T13:57:09-04:00

I went in as a Army Bandsman after a college level audition. The program was called 'Stripes for Skills' and included many MOSs. That program, plus my musicianship got me E-3 upon enlisting with a guaranteed E-5 after one year TIS. It came true. I had to pass that tough audition, though. And I was 17, a newly graduated senior in high school.

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Jan 26 at 2018 11:32 PM

2018-01-26T23:32:43-05:00

Isn't life amazing. "Stay close to your desk and never go to sea, soon you'll be an Admiral in the Queens Navy"

Response by MSG John Duchesneau made Mar 13 at 2018 2:43 AM

2018-03-13T02:43:36-04:00

I haven't heard of it. In the Air Force the TIS for making E-6 is about 10 years. The Air Force has the slowest promotion rate because it has the highest retention rate.

Response by SMSgt Tony Barnes made Jan 7 at 2022 8:08 PM

2022-01-07T20:08:01-05:00

Depends on her instrument and level of experience.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Jan 7 at 2022 8:23 PM

2022-01-07T20:23:02-05:00

Yeah, that's normal. Ranks on band uniforms are just decoration. There's no expectation that they be militarily proficient in any way.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Jan 12 at 2023 11:28 AM

2023-01-12T11:28:33-05:00

Band members run the full gamut of enlisted tanks. They do in fact have different entry authorization based on their skill set and experience. One who majored in music and went on to orchestration or the like at a higher degree (Masters, PHD) would enter service at a higher grade because of the direct and immediate impact they would have on the band itself.

Having said all that I do not know the exact breakdown that correlates degree, experience to entry grade and bonus.