Is it possible to serve two masters, or must you be forced to choose?

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 00:29:54 -0400

As a longstanding member of the ARNG, I've visited this question many times in my career. Where should you devote your focus? Should you place your energies into being at the top of your civilian profession, or should you try to strategically elevate your military career? Now, on the surface this may seem like an easy question, but I've found that as I've progressed throughout my career, I've had to make some tough decisions. Some time ago, I had a conversation with my civilian employer (former military reserve officer) and he told me that he always placed a heavier emphasis on his civilian career. Being that he was my boss and mentor, I took this as a serious implied task (foot stomp). Since that day, I've seriously contemplated what the future of my military career should look like. Has anyone here dealt with this issue?
Have you been able to expertly balance your civilian and military career, or have you been forced to choose? Let me know your thoughts.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Mar 24 at 2018 4:20 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 04:20:40 -0400

Profession vs hobby? No debate...

Response by LTC Peter Hartman made Mar 24 at 2018 6:54 AM

LTC Peter Hartman — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 06:54:19 -0400

You can typically make more in your civilian career.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 24 at 2018 8:35 AM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 08:35:50 -0400

I don’t think you’re looking at it from the right angle. Your civilian job of course is of upmost importance and your Gaurd job should supplement leadership experience to further develop you for your civilian job. Think of it as night school. Deployments is you defending your thesis.

Response by CH (MAJ) Luke Phillips made Mar 24 at 2018 8:41 AM

CH (MAJ) Luke Phillips — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 08:41:14 -0400

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member Great question! I've been there. The answer depends on what type of civilian career that you have or want. If you have/want a public sector civilian career, then, you could make both work. If you are in a demanding private sector position, then, you will not reach maximum performance/progression/opportunity in both.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Mar 24 at 2018 9:35 AM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 09:35:41 -0400

While I have not walked in your shoes I have spent many years working with the Guard and Reserves. The senior leaders I had the pleasure of knowing were often very highly regarded and senior on both fronts. I will say that I am sure that is not an easy prospect, and quite challenging. The one thing that most had in common when I inquired was that they were able to cross over from either side with much of what they learned, enhancing their ability to achieve at a steady rate. Thank you for your service.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Mar 24 at 2018 9:39 AM

Capt Daniel Goodman — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 09:39:34 -0400

I've really gotta think about that one...that one runs into pretty deep philosophical waters, as I'd reflected on your whole quamdry...if you'd ever care to hear more, I can try to explain, my circumstances differed radically from yours, admittedly, howecer, I might, I think, ne able to offer you a few fairly pithy observations about it, if you'd want to near wit me...I can only tell you, like Alice following the rabbit down the hole, it'd get into a fairly deep discussion, one I didn't know if you'd want me to get into to begin with, so, rather than just diving in headfirst, I figured I'd just ask...if you want to hear more, I'm more than willing to try chatting about it, certainly, I'd onoy say your dilemma made me reflect a good deal, which was why I thought you might perhaps care to hear my hopefully sage bits of wisdom, however, I'll wait to hear back, in case you'd actually wish me to elaborate...once in awhile, I find such questions as yours on here, yours was quite a good one, in point of fact...so, if you want to hear more, just let me know, and I'll commence !y diatribe, OK?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 24 at 2018 9:40 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 09:40:33 -0400

I just left active duty and now have a position as a defence Contractor.

My national guard position directly relates as useful experience to my day job. I don't expect I would stay in the guard long without a supportive employer.

That said, I have been blessed in that area.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Mar 24 at 2018 9:40 AM

Capt Daniel Goodman — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 09:40:59 -0400

Sorry for the typos, this tablet doesn't have the greatest spell checker, and I just had ophthalmic surgery a few months ago, as well, I'm afraid....

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 24 at 2018 9:59 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 09:59:32 -0400

The more successful you become at your civilian work the less time and energy you have towards your guard/reserve for schooling etc. of course you can still be amazing for 2 days a month but won’t have that fire that you had when you had more time. This leaves the guard/reserve system with a weird paradigm of having people in higher leadership positions that aren’t really impressive 28 days a month. People may not like this point but I have seen this countless times in my 20 plus years in the system. Not always true but seen it many times.

Response by Cpl Tom Surdi made Mar 24 at 2018 10:13 AM

Cpl Tom Surdi — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 10:13:24 -0400

It is possible, but incredibly difficult, because you have to divide your attention between the two and cannot give either 100% of your attention. What you have to ask yourself is, which is more important to you. When you have made that choice, then use the other to further whichever career you chose.

Response by 2LT Ronald Reimer made Mar 24 at 2018 10:15 AM

2LT Ronald Reimer — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 10:15:54 -0400

If you are having this difficulty, then it sounds like both careers are important to you. I think that you may be doing yourself and your family a disservice if you place more focus/emphasis on your ARNG career than your civilian career. I am presuming that your civilian career is going to be your greatest source of retirement income. I am also presuming that you work at that career 3 or more days a week, (full time), and that your ARNG career is more like 2-5 days/month. If those presumptions are correct, then your opportunity for promotion, compensation, benefits, status are higher for your civilian profession. These things are not just important to you, (unless you are single and have no dependents), but also to those who count on you. I’ve never had a problem with the Army asking/telling me when they needed me to do something, and it frequently felt like they were getting the better end of the deal. Maybe not in the long run, but definitely on a year to year basis for many years. Best of luck making your choices. I hope that they work out for you.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 24 at 2018 10:16 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 10:16:30 -0400

No. One must look at who/what they are swearing allegiance to before they put themselves in a position of trying to serve opposing positions. At the end of the day that's what it's about.

Response by PO1 Mary Vermont made Mar 24 at 2018 10:27 AM

PO1 Mary Vermont — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 10:27:19 -0400

I chose a long time ago. Thats whay i was active duty, never been sorry

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 24 at 2018 10:36 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 10:36:46 -0400

In a way this strikes me as a twist on the old military vs family demands issue. No senior officer I know got to their rank without having to sacrifice all sorts of things in regards to their family life. Each soldier has to weigh which is really more important to them (not just lip service) and make those tough decisions. It seems like the same dilemma in a way. You have to decide which field is most important to you and make that a priority over the other one. There's only so much time available and you can't be two places at once.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 24 at 2018 11:26 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 11:26:28 -0400

If America could afford it, it would be preferable that all able-bodied men of sound mind serve in the either the Guard or Reserves for at least some time in their lives. Preparedness to participate in the nation's defense should be expected from all of us. However, for a Guardsman or Reservist, their primary job is their civilian career. That's what you do. The military portion is an ethical/civics semi-obligation performed in-addition-to that primary role (semi b/c we don't have compulsory service in America and couldn't afford to take everyone into the RC even if we wanted to). So, if you have choose which path to favor, it should be the primary role. When you favor the part-time role, you might as well go into the regular, AD component. I never had as senior a position as the other commenters here, and I've already gotten out, but as I get older, I am reminded more and more that one day I'm going to come to the end of the road. A jack of all trades is a master of none.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 24 at 2018 12:43 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 12:43:21 -0400

The answer is yes. As a medical officer you learn this right out of the gate. The Army is the one who excepts you and make you an officer, but army medical command are the ones who allow you to practice medicine. So you tiptoe through your career answering to two masters at all times and particularly nowadays, they often give you conflicting orders. No you may rightly say that army medical command has no true commander 30 and less you’re working directly for them. In per regulation your be correct and you would learn the error of your ways upon your next medical evaluation. Imagine it’s a similar dilemma for lawyers. The bottom line is anyone who has a profession has entire separate set of standards that they must said here too in addition to the basic officer requirements. This is why it’s such a kick in the face when working for line companies when they look at the specialty officers; the medical officers, the lawyers and others, and tell them how they can’t top block a specialty officer against a infantry or line officer because “you’re going to be promoted anyway“. So it is indeed complex to serve two masters in the army but for many of us it is a way of life. This is one of the main reasons that the military has an extremely difficult time retaining specialty staff. The development process promotion in a valuation system is completely broken when it comes to specialty officers. It will only be fixed when the system is designed that allows them to be regarded as an excellent officer without putting them against line officers in a zero sum game. As long as the military crates is false dialectic they will bleed the most experienced and proficient special the officers who get tired of needing to answer to two masters but be respected by none.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 24 at 2018 12:44 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 12:44:37 -0400

Again my apologies for the spelling and grammar errors. The mobile application lacks the ability to correct these errors and I am deployed. My apologies

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Mar 24 at 2018 12:44 PM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 12:44:58 -0400

I'm hoping you'll recognize this quote: "A man cannot serve two masters. He will love one and hate the other or hate one and love the other. Man cannot serve both God and money." Somebody or something always has to be first in your life. My personal priority list is God, Family, Country/Job, Friends, everything else. I was able to stick with these priorities for most of my 22-year Air Force career. Sometimes I had to move "country" ahead of "family," but did so after talking about it with my wife. Fortunately, she was a great supporter of me and the Air Force.

It looks like you are a civil servant. OPM rules protect you as far as your job's and your boss' relationship with Reserve Duty. I had Reserve Component officers and NCOs work for me as an Army Civilian. Scheduling around their training and active duty times was a bit of a pain, but we worked through it. Hopefully your boss understands the importance of a trained and ready RC Soldier. If you have any problem with management, you should talk with your equivalent of the Army EEO officer. As a civil servant and RC officer you're building retirement from both careers. You're about to get one of the ultimate "good deals" being able to retire twice before age 66, get paid from both your military retirement and civil service annuity, while still being young enough to undertake a third career if you want.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 24 at 2018 12:57 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 12:57:39 -0400

No worries. Stay safe brother.

Response by PVT Mark Brown made Mar 24 at 2018 12:59 PM

PVT Mark Brown — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 12:59:43 -0400

Well, there is one Master you did not mention. If you serve that Master all the rest will fall into place. Sounds like an oversimplification but, in my opinion, is right on point.

Response by MSgt Walter Clack made Mar 24 at 2018 2:34 PM

MSgt Walter Clack — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 14:34:08 -0400

Maj Cox, I understand your conflict in what I believe to be a reference to a quote from the most publicised individual of all time. “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other." Often conflict will arise between my obligations as a leader in church and family. However I must remember that neither is my Master. Both are complicated organizations that desire and deserve both my time and consideration. When involved in Ministry it received 100% of my attention. Likewise with my family. I love both dearly and would never consider giving either up or even favoring one over the other. It has helped me resolve this conflict with the understanding I have but one Master. The Author of said quote. All the other obligations that I feel receive benefits from my relation from Him. I realize this is a simplistic point of view. Yet, it works for me. Semper Fi

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 24 at 2018 4:28 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 16:28:32 -0400

This is a hard question that reservists face every day. For me my civilian career takes priority. There is no question about it. My civilian career helps me to be better at my military career so that is definitely a good thing. I am a metallurgist and ndt engineer/ principal level 3 for my plant so those skills translate quite readily into being a reservist NDI in the AF. The AF is my hobby essentially. I do it because I enjoy serving my country but if I had to choose between them I would choose my civilian career. The demands of more and longer deplyments make the balance for traditional reservists very difficult. One of the ways I handle it is staying enlisted instead of taking a commission earlier in my career. As a traditional reservist enlisted member, the demands on my time during the month are not nearly as high as they are for the traditional reserve officers. This is the reason my husband is trying to go back enlisted for his last few years until retirement. The time commitment thing is one of the reasons that there are many many enlisted reservists and guardsmen with a ton of education and high level civilian jobs. These are the people who enjoy serving beyond their initial obligation but don’t want the headache associated with being officers. Heck, if my civilian employer didn’t make up my salary when I get deployed overseas I couldn’t pay my bills on my military salary. Last deployment I made more per month than the O-4 MXS commander. Finding a good civilian employer who makes up the difference between salaries will help you feel better about continuing to serve.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Mar 25 at 2018 1:09 AM

CSM Charles Hayden — Sun, 25 Mar 2018 01:09:25 -0400

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member That is a similar situation to when Dr Graf-Radford told me: “you will know when it is time to schedule your knee replacement surgery”.

Some positions and some employers allow for military duties.

As a young Soldier, knowing the onus of required military commitments, I made a decision to take my discharge and go to the USAR.

Did I gloss over any comment about your family life being affected by your commitments?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2018 3:39 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 25 Mar 2018 15:39:32 -0400

When I was still in, I came across huge problems balancing both military and civilian careers. I was actively asked if I was going to deploy and conversely I was asked to negate my civilian job for the COARNG. I have actually been told, "Your raise was lowered because of your time you were away in training", and regarding the absolute bull5hit about OPM rules, don't believe it. The DOJ actually got involved and nothing happened to that company and they made it such a horrible place to work and grow I had to quit (Boulder Scientific Company if you were wondering).
The big question you should ask is about your retirement. The military retirement is better than most out there especially when you consider the health benefits, but you're also ARNG so that presents it's own limitations. I'd have to say, depending on how long you have in service, try to focus on both as much as possible. It'll pay off in the end with a retirement and a good job. That way you can maximize all your financial stability. Good luck sir.

Response by TSgt Lars Eilenfeld made Apr 2 at 2018 9:59 PM

TSgt Lars Eilenfeld — Mon, 02 Apr 2018 21:59:41 -0400

It even says in the Bible you cannot serve two masters you will end up loving the one and hating the other, make a choice, pray about it, let God help guide you

Response by SFC Kirby Cordell made Apr 9 at 2018 1:35 PM

SFC Kirby Cordell — Mon, 09 Apr 2018 13:35:16 -0400

Excellent answer. In most cases your civilian job takes care of everything your family needs, i.e. Health insur, food, shelter, etc.
While your weekend duties may contribute to the above, it also contributes to your personal growth, education, leadership qualities & morale fortitude. Unless you are an Infantry Recon Scout & if that's the case then you will learn so much more than the average GI Joe, as you will be in an accelerated learning position that combines many MOS skill sets, not to mention the ability to make split second decisions in order to Charlie Mike (complete your Missions).
11Bravo Scouts Rule the battlefield.

Response by Cpl Lawrence Lavictoire made Apr 10 at 2018 8:09 AM

Cpl Lawrence Lavictoire — Tue, 10 Apr 2018 08:09:48 -0400

Since you have quoted scripture (somewhat) try praying to God for your answer!

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 22 at 2018 8:10 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 22 Apr 2018 20:10:48 -0400

This something I have struggled with. I will say that I have choose the National Guard and ignored my civilian career. I part more emphasis in my military career. I didn't lay the foundation for a promising civilian career. I can see why he is saying that. The issue is really that the National Guard or the Reserves isn't a full time career. They are only good for a weekend and a few weeks in the summer. I learned that the hard way. I have left the Guard to go back to the Regular Army. Looking back I am not sure if I would have done it any different but I would agree with your boss.

Response by PO1 William Wade made Apr 29 at 2018 1:12 PM

PO1 William Wade — Sun, 29 Apr 2018 13:12:54 -0400

I have always served 2. My first master is God and he takes prescience over all, the second in my president who commands the country. After that comes family and job boss. Just know that sometimes country and family will swap places depending on the situation.

Response by MAJ Robert Whaley made May 17 at 2018 4:36 PM

MAJ Robert Whaley — Thu, 17 May 2018 16:36:29 -0400

Based on my experience, it is a tough call but similar to the family/job equation. On the family job equation, which one will you develope the most beneficial and long lasting relationship with and which one satisfies you the most. When you make that decision, focus on that one but try and do both justice. If the decision has to be made between them then you already know the answer. I had the same decision with my reserve duty/profession. As a National Park Ranger, in emergency services, my job entailed my to be in a remote setting, especially in the summer months. It seemed that the two week reserve duty was continually scheduled in the summer and in good conscious I could not abandon my job for even two weeks in the summer when someones life could depend on me being there and did many times. The monthly weekend duty was hard enough. I tried to do IRR but could not get enough points to maintain a good retirement plus it was not as fulfilling. I stayed for 20 but did not make enough points for a good retirement (hard not to wear that uniform) but did retire from the National Park Service with a full and rewarding career and a great 34 year marriage.

Response by SSG Dave Johnston made May 30 at 2018 7:16 AM

SSG Dave Johnston — Wed, 30 May 2018 07:16:42 -0400

Are you married? ,,, 'nuph said.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 31 at 2019 10:40 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 31 Aug 2019 10:40:57 -0400

I think it depends on your military specialty and your civilian employer. As a civil servant it’s definitely easier for me to step away and serve the army when they need me, but if I worked in the private sector or owned my own practice it wouldn’t be impossible, but it would be financially difficult and risky.

Which do I prioritize? Well right now my reserves career. I am in a specialty in my civil servant position where I pretty much will stay in the same grade level and just move through the steps as I put time in. So my civilian career is pretty stagnant and a set trajectory. So I focus energy into my reserves career which so far has been more rewarding to me personally on a psychological and spiritual level. Perhaps it will change but right now I’m really enjoying serving in the army reserves. I wish I had done this a decade ago.

A quote I always fall back on when times are tough;

“When you are ready to quit remember why you started”. It tends to bring some quick perspective.