SPC Private RallyPoint Member3305697<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>We're in different brigades, I'm a Spc but she's a CPL. Since we're both E4's would it be a no-go?Is it really fraternization if you're both E-4, but one is a SPC and the other is a CPL?2018-01-29T22:33:18-05:00SPC Private RallyPoint Member3305697<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>We're in different brigades, I'm a Spc but she's a CPL. Since we're both E4's would it be a no-go?Is it really fraternization if you're both E-4, but one is a SPC and the other is a CPL?2018-01-29T22:33:18-05:002018-01-29T22:33:18-05:00SSG Edward Tilton3305730<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Great question, in my day the best way to make Corporal was from SergeantResponse by SSG Edward Tilton made Jan 29 at 2018 10:49 PM2018-01-29T22:49:42-05:002018-01-29T22:49:42-05:00Sgt Private RallyPoint Member3305842<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div><a class="dark-link bold-link" role="profile-hover" data-qtip-container="body" data-id="902969" data-source-page-controller="question_response_contents" href="/profiles/902969-12b-combat-engineer">SPC Private RallyPoint Member</a> Good question. Have you asked through your chain of command?<br /><br />In the United States military, it is one of the four junior enlisted ranks in the U.S. Army, above private first class and equivalent in pay grade to corporal. Unlike corporals, specialists are not considered junior non-commissioned officers (NCOs).<br /><br /><a target="_blank" href="https://www.thebalance.com/army-fraternization-policy-3344585">https://www.thebalance.com/army-fraternization-policy-3344585</a> <div class="pta-link-card answers-template-image type-default">
<div class="pta-link-card-picture">
<img src="https://d26horl2n8pviu.cloudfront.net/link_data_pictures/images/000/257/129/qrc/GettyImages-52072844-577c62935f9b585875172b33.jpg?1517286710">
</div>
<div class="pta-link-card-content">
<p class="pta-link-card-title">
<a target="blank" href="https://www.thebalance.com/army-fraternization-policy-3344585">Which Kind of Relationships Are Allowed in the Army?</a>
</p>
<p class="pta-link-card-description">The Army&#39;s policy on fraternization and inappropriate relationships includes specific details about what is and isn&#39;t allowed between officers and troops.</p>
</div>
<div class="clearfix"></div>
</div>
Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2018 11:38 PM2018-01-29T23:38:20-05:002018-01-29T23:38:20-05:00SSG Jessica Bautista3305931<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Nyope.Response by SSG Jessica Bautista made Jan 30 at 2018 12:38 AM2018-01-30T00:38:56-05:002018-01-30T00:38:56-05:00Cpl Justin Goolsby3305968<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>You're both NCOs and neither one of you works in the same work area, so neither one of you is in a position of power or authority over the other one. So no, it's not fraternization. That being said though, if you both started working in the same work area, then you have to make your relationship known because you're not allowed to work on the same shift to prevent inappropriate behavior, favoritism, and other behaviors that could detract from mission readiness.Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made Jan 30 at 2018 1:07 AM2018-01-30T01:07:57-05:002018-01-30T01:07:57-05:00MSG Private RallyPoint Member3306835<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>The best place to get an answer to this is visit your JAG office. While you are both the same pay grade, she is an NCO. There are many that would call this a violation of the fraternization policy. But again, visit your JAG to get a better answer/clarification.Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2018 9:59 AM2018-01-30T09:59:43-05:002018-01-30T09:59:43-05:00SGT Joseph Gunderson3307593<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>It depends on the nature of the relationship and whether there is any perceived favoritism or favor. If there is no way for them to negatively or positively influence you career or the career of your seniors/peers/subordinates and there is no way that you can do that for them then none of this matters. I regularly had drinks with senior NCOs and at some times may have enjoyed time off with an officer or two; these were people in my unit and were above me. However, when the time came to work, they were the senior and I was the subordinate and our off duty friendship played no part in whether I would get stomped into the dirt for making a mistake.Response by SGT Joseph Gunderson made Jan 30 at 2018 1:24 PM2018-01-30T13:24:08-05:002018-01-30T13:24:08-05:00CPL Dave Hoover3326288<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div><a class="dark-link bold-link" role="profile-hover" data-qtip-container="body" data-id="902969" data-source-page-controller="question_response_contents" href="/profiles/902969-12b-combat-engineer">SPC Private RallyPoint Member</a> Technically yes, though different commands may differ in view if in different units. Best to be safe and check with YOUR. 1ST SGT's and/or Company Commander's.Response by CPL Dave Hoover made Feb 5 at 2018 4:15 PM2018-02-05T16:15:30-05:002018-02-05T16:15:30-05:00CPL Kerrie Race3328812<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Nope just as long as you don’t work togetherResponse by CPL Kerrie Race made Feb 6 at 2018 1:01 PM2018-02-06T13:01:33-05:002018-02-06T13:01:33-05:00CPL David Hagins3340690<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Definitely due to the fact she is a JR. NCO. I would say it’s a no-go in my book.Response by CPL David Hagins made Feb 10 at 2018 8:27 AM2018-02-10T08:27:45-05:002018-02-10T08:27:45-05:00MSG Private RallyPoint Member3342930<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>no.Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 11 at 2018 4:25 AM2018-02-11T04:25:14-05:002018-02-11T04:25:14-05:00CPL Private RallyPoint Member3347685<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Still NCO and Jr enlisted... idkResponse by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 12 at 2018 4:09 PM2018-02-12T16:09:40-05:002018-02-12T16:09:40-05:00CPL Private RallyPoint Member3363846<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Yes she’s considered an ncoResponse by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 17 at 2018 1:03 PM2018-02-17T13:03:16-05:002018-02-17T13:03:16-05:00CPL Curtis Dowling3365018<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>She is an NCO, you are not no-go.Response by CPL Curtis Dowling made Feb 17 at 2018 10:07 PM2018-02-17T22:07:39-05:002018-02-17T22:07:39-05:00CPL Jonathan Mallard3369071<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Are you able to assist them in promotions, if not, what does it matterResponse by CPL Jonathan Mallard made Feb 19 at 2018 10:51 AM2018-02-19T10:51:16-05:002018-02-19T10:51:16-05:00LTC Ronald Stephens3369178<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I met via a gathering of officers in the battalion to which I was assigned a WAC (this was 1970) first lieutenant. She was there as she had accompanied another officer in the Bn. I later found out that her CO had said to her with respect to the officer who had originally accompanied her that "You can do better than that." We later became attracted to each other and started dating. I had recently been promoted to captain and had met her CO. She was a very down to earth lady, a senior captain who was soon after promoted to major. She advised that this sort of fraternization was discouraged but we were both adults and in no position to influence the other's career. It turned out that she was also under consideration for an ADC position to CINCPAC in Hawaii and was later selected for the position. I proposed to her and she reported to the position wearing an engagement ring. There was never any problem in either command with the arrangement and we were later married. I guess the moral of the story is things like that do happen and with the exercise of good judgement they work out.Response by LTC Ronald Stephens made Feb 19 at 2018 11:20 AM2018-02-19T11:20:16-05:002018-02-19T11:20:16-05:00CPL Eric Bridges3373488<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Things have probably changed since my time in service, but yes there is a big difference!!Response by CPL Eric Bridges made Feb 20 at 2018 4:31 PM2018-02-20T16:31:32-05:002018-02-20T16:31:32-05:00CPL(P) Private RallyPoint Member3382310<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>She can't do you sent favors. I follow the rule, if it's not leading to marriage cut it off. If it is, shoot to be within one year. People know within 6 months if there are red flags or not. Be honest and be honorable. Dont make it an issue in public.Response by CPL(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2018 6:25 AM2018-02-23T06:25:26-05:002018-02-23T06:25:26-05:00CPL Joey Weaver Jr.3424205<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I see no problem as you are both enlisted, and both E-4's, I always thought fraternization was amongst officer, and enlisted, if not then I am guilty as an e-4, for having A few dates with a cute private....and she was all that, and made me smile. But she had no say in anything, as I didn't either, that's why officers do not fraternize with enlisted....Response by CPL Joey Weaver Jr. made Mar 7 at 2018 3:06 PM2018-03-07T15:06:02-05:002018-03-07T15:06:02-05:00SPC Keith Sloan3436564<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I always understood it like this: if you are in different units, it's okay. It didn't matter what the ranks were. My old PSG were dating a SPC back inn 2002. No one cared really. She'll stop by and hang around the office area.Response by SPC Keith Sloan made Mar 11 at 2018 12:43 PM2018-03-11T12:43:25-04:002018-03-11T12:43:25-04:00SSgt Private RallyPoint Member3442537<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Unless your service has specific guidelines the UCMJ clearly states fraternization can only occur between an officer and enlisted. As far as nco to junior grade those "could" be classified as inappropriate relationships which would be decided by the first sergeant and commander. Furthermore if they're in the same chain of command and the nco is leadership over the junior, then that's a no go. If separate and have no work related interactions, what's the issue? Love is love and we are no one to judge or try to break that. Hope this helps.Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 13 at 2018 11:06 AM2018-03-13T11:06:48-04:002018-03-13T11:06:48-04:00CPL Crystal Jeffords3490932<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>NoResponse by CPL Crystal Jeffords made Mar 28 at 2018 7:56 PM2018-03-28T19:56:52-04:002018-03-28T19:56:52-04:00CPL Private RallyPoint Member3503381<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>SpcResponse by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 1 at 2018 6:06 PM2018-04-01T18:06:14-04:002018-04-01T18:06:14-04:00CPL Dave Stimmell3543392<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I think it would be ok but for clarification a jag visit would clear it all up. mooResponse by CPL Dave Stimmell made Apr 14 at 2018 2:52 PM2018-04-14T14:52:02-04:002018-04-14T14:52:02-04:00CPL Jerome Smith3545028<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I do not think so being different brigadesResponse by CPL Jerome Smith made Apr 15 at 2018 9:05 AM2018-04-15T09:05:55-04:002018-04-15T09:05:55-04:00CPL David Cooper3697870<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>As long you aren't the same gender, go for it!Response by CPL David Cooper made Jun 9 at 2018 4:51 PM2018-06-09T16:51:15-04:002018-06-09T16:51:15-04:00CPL Douglas Chrysler3838287<div class="images-v2-count-1"><div class="content-picture image-v2-number-1" id="image-256325"> <div class="social_icons social-buttons-on-image">
<a href='https://www.facebook.com/sharer/sharer.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rallypoint.com%2Fanswers%2Fis-it-really-fraternization-if-you-re-both-e-4-but-one-is-a-spc-and-the-other-is-a-cpl%3Futm_source%3DFacebook%26utm_medium%3Dorganic%26utm_campaign%3DShare%20to%20facebook'
target="_blank" class='social-share-button facebook-share-button'><i class="fa fa-facebook-f"></i></a>
<a href="https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?text=Is+it+really+fraternization+if+you%27re+both+E-4%2C+but+one+is+a+SPC+and+the+other+is+a+CPL%3F&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rallypoint.com%2Fanswers%2Fis-it-really-fraternization-if-you-re-both-e-4-but-one-is-a-spc-and-the-other-is-a-cpl&via=RallyPoint"
target="_blank" class="social-share-button twitter-custom-share-button"><i class="fa fa-twitter"></i></a>
<a href="mailto:?subject=Check this out on RallyPoint!&body=Hi, I thought you would find this interesting:%0D%0AIs it really fraternization if you're both E-4, but one is a SPC and the other is a CPL?%0D%0A %0D%0AHere is the link: https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/is-it-really-fraternization-if-you-re-both-e-4-but-one-is-a-spc-and-the-other-is-a-cpl"
target="_blank" class="social-share-button email-share-button"><i class="fa fa-envelope"></i></a>
</div>
<a class="fancybox" rel="acebe69047cc745628ed7d6aa4e1d284" href="https://d1ndsj6b8hkqu9.cloudfront.net/pictures/images/000/256/325/for_gallery_v2/35ad98a4.jpg"><img src="https://d1ndsj6b8hkqu9.cloudfront.net/pictures/images/000/256/325/large_v3/35ad98a4.jpg" alt="35ad98a4" /></a></div></div>Times have certainly changed. Sometimes I leave comments about a certain subject and see later my statements are not relevant at all. The photo is of a WAC who worked on the surgical ward at Ft Sam Houston. Usually she would be the first person you would see when becoming coherent. I didn't know anyone who didn't fall for her even for a brief time. But, if a relationship were to develop I don't know if any regulation would matter. She always managed to keep everyone in their place.Response by CPL Douglas Chrysler made Jul 30 at 2018 12:01 PM2018-07-30T12:01:13-04:002018-07-30T12:01:13-04:00CPL Fabian Sanchez4059956<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>A corporeal is an nco,a specialist is not,therefore you cannot fraternize.Response by CPL Fabian Sanchez made Oct 20 at 2018 2:21 AM2018-10-20T02:21:05-04:002018-10-20T02:21:05-04:00SFC Ralph E Kelley4061892<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>It's by "rank" and position of authority over the other - not grade.Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Oct 20 at 2018 10:53 PM2018-10-20T22:53:27-04:002018-10-20T22:53:27-04:00CPL William Knight4233302<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>My understanding was that as long as you didn't work together, as in the Spc being a direct subordinate it wasn't out of regsResponse by CPL William Knight made Dec 24 at 2018 9:48 PM2018-12-24T21:48:01-05:002018-12-24T21:48:01-05:002018-01-29T22:33:18-05:00