Is it really fraternization if you're both E-4, but one is a SPC and the other is a CPL?

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 29 Jan 2018 22:33:18 -0500

We're in different brigades, I'm a Spc but she's a CPL. Since we're both E4's would it be a no-go?

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Jan 29 at 2018 10:49 PM

SSG Edward Tilton — Mon, 29 Jan 2018 22:49:42 -0500

Great question, in my day the best way to make Corporal was from Sergeant

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2018 11:38 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 29 Jan 2018 23:38:20 -0500

SPC Private RallyPoint Member Good question. Have you asked through your chain of command?

In the United States military, it is one of the four junior enlisted ranks in the U.S. Army, above private first class and equivalent in pay grade to corporal. Unlike corporals, specialists are not considered junior non-commissioned officers (NCOs).

https://www.thebalance.com/army-fraternization-policy-3344585

Which Kind of Relationships Are Allowed in the Army?

The Army's policy on fraternization and inappropriate relationships includes specific details about what is and isn't allowed between officers and troops.

Response by SSG Jessica Bautista made Jan 30 at 2018 12:38 AM

SSG Jessica Bautista — Tue, 30 Jan 2018 00:38:56 -0500

Nyope.

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made Jan 30 at 2018 1:07 AM

Cpl Justin Goolsby — Tue, 30 Jan 2018 01:07:57 -0500

You're both NCOs and neither one of you works in the same work area, so neither one of you is in a position of power or authority over the other one. So no, it's not fraternization. That being said though, if you both started working in the same work area, then you have to make your relationship known because you're not allowed to work on the same shift to prevent inappropriate behavior, favoritism, and other behaviors that could detract from mission readiness.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2018 9:59 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 30 Jan 2018 09:59:43 -0500

The best place to get an answer to this is visit your JAG office. While you are both the same pay grade, she is an NCO. There are many that would call this a violation of the fraternization policy. But again, visit your JAG to get a better answer/clarification.

Response by SGT Joseph Gunderson made Jan 30 at 2018 1:24 PM

SGT Joseph Gunderson — Tue, 30 Jan 2018 13:24:08 -0500

It depends on the nature of the relationship and whether there is any perceived favoritism or favor. If there is no way for them to negatively or positively influence you career or the career of your seniors/peers/subordinates and there is no way that you can do that for them then none of this matters. I regularly had drinks with senior NCOs and at some times may have enjoyed time off with an officer or two; these were people in my unit and were above me. However, when the time came to work, they were the senior and I was the subordinate and our off duty friendship played no part in whether I would get stomped into the dirt for making a mistake.

Response by CPL Dave Hoover made Feb 5 at 2018 4:15 PM

CPL Dave Hoover — Mon, 05 Feb 2018 16:15:30 -0500

SPC Private RallyPoint Member Technically yes, though different commands may differ in view if in different units. Best to be safe and check with YOUR. 1ST SGT's and/or Company Commander's.

Response by CPL Kerrie Race made Feb 6 at 2018 1:01 PM

CPL Kerrie Race — Tue, 06 Feb 2018 13:01:33 -0500

Nope just as long as you don’t work together

Response by CPL David Hagins made Feb 10 at 2018 8:27 AM

CPL David Hagins — Sat, 10 Feb 2018 08:27:45 -0500

Definitely due to the fact she is a JR. NCO. I would say it’s a no-go in my book.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 11 at 2018 4:25 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 11 Feb 2018 04:25:14 -0500

no.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 12 at 2018 4:09 PM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Feb 2018 16:09:40 -0500

Still NCO and Jr enlisted... idk

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 17 at 2018 1:03 PM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 17 Feb 2018 13:03:16 -0500

Yes she’s considered an nco

Response by CPL Curtis Dowling made Feb 17 at 2018 10:07 PM

CPL Curtis Dowling — Sat, 17 Feb 2018 22:07:39 -0500

She is an NCO, you are not no-go.

Response by CPL Jonathan Mallard made Feb 19 at 2018 10:51 AM

CPL Jonathan Mallard — Mon, 19 Feb 2018 10:51:16 -0500

Are you able to assist them in promotions, if not, what does it matter

Response by LTC Ronald Stephens made Feb 19 at 2018 11:20 AM

LTC Ronald Stephens — Mon, 19 Feb 2018 11:20:16 -0500

I met via a gathering of officers in the battalion to which I was assigned a WAC (this was 1970) first lieutenant. She was there as she had accompanied another officer in the Bn. I later found out that her CO had said to her with respect to the officer who had originally accompanied her that "You can do better than that." We later became attracted to each other and started dating. I had recently been promoted to captain and had met her CO. She was a very down to earth lady, a senior captain who was soon after promoted to major. She advised that this sort of fraternization was discouraged but we were both adults and in no position to influence the other's career. It turned out that she was also under consideration for an ADC position to CINCPAC in Hawaii and was later selected for the position. I proposed to her and she reported to the position wearing an engagement ring. There was never any problem in either command with the arrangement and we were later married. I guess the moral of the story is things like that do happen and with the exercise of good judgement they work out.

Response by CPL Eric Bridges made Feb 20 at 2018 4:31 PM

CPL Eric Bridges — Tue, 20 Feb 2018 16:31:32 -0500

Things have probably changed since my time in service, but yes there is a big difference!!

Response by CPL(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2018 6:25 AM

CPL(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 23 Feb 2018 06:25:26 -0500

She can't do you sent favors. I follow the rule, if it's not leading to marriage cut it off. If it is, shoot to be within one year. People know within 6 months if there are red flags or not. Be honest and be honorable. Dont make it an issue in public.

Response by CPL Joey Weaver Jr. made Mar 7 at 2018 3:06 PM

CPL Joey Weaver Jr. — Wed, 07 Mar 2018 15:06:02 -0500

I see no problem as you are both enlisted, and both E-4's, I always thought fraternization was amongst officer, and enlisted, if not then I am guilty as an e-4, for having A few dates with a cute private....and she was all that, and made me smile. But she had no say in anything, as I didn't either, that's why officers do not fraternize with enlisted....

Response by SPC Keith Sloan made Mar 11 at 2018 12:43 PM

SPC Keith Sloan — Sun, 11 Mar 2018 12:43:25 -0400

I always understood it like this: if you are in different units, it's okay. It didn't matter what the ranks were. My old PSG were dating a SPC back inn 2002. No one cared really. She'll stop by and hang around the office area.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 13 at 2018 11:06 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 13 Mar 2018 11:06:48 -0400

Unless your service has specific guidelines the UCMJ clearly states fraternization can only occur between an officer and enlisted. As far as nco to junior grade those "could" be classified as inappropriate relationships which would be decided by the first sergeant and commander. Furthermore if they're in the same chain of command and the nco is leadership over the junior, then that's a no go. If separate and have no work related interactions, what's the issue? Love is love and we are no one to judge or try to break that. Hope this helps.

Response by CPL Crystal Jeffords made Mar 28 at 2018 7:56 PM

CPL Crystal Jeffords — Wed, 28 Mar 2018 19:56:52 -0400

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 1 at 2018 6:06 PM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 01 Apr 2018 18:06:14 -0400

Spc

Response by CPL Dave Stimmell made Apr 14 at 2018 2:52 PM

CPL Dave Stimmell — Sat, 14 Apr 2018 14:52:02 -0400

I think it would be ok but for clarification a jag visit would clear it all up. moo

Response by CPL Jerome Smith made Apr 15 at 2018 9:05 AM

CPL Jerome Smith — Sun, 15 Apr 2018 09:05:55 -0400

I do not think so being different brigades

Response by CPL David Cooper made Jun 9 at 2018 4:51 PM

CPL David Cooper — Sat, 09 Jun 2018 16:51:15 -0400

As long you aren't the same gender, go for it!

Response by CPL Douglas Chrysler made Jul 30 at 2018 12:01 PM

CPL Douglas Chrysler — Mon, 30 Jul 2018 12:01:13 -0400

Times have certainly changed. Sometimes I leave comments about a certain subject and see later my statements are not relevant at all. The photo is of a WAC who worked on the surgical ward at Ft Sam Houston. Usually she would be the first person you would see when becoming coherent. I didn't know anyone who didn't fall for her even for a brief time. But, if a relationship were to develop I don't know if any regulation would matter. She always managed to keep everyone in their place.

Response by CPL Fabian Sanchez made Oct 20 at 2018 2:21 AM

CPL Fabian Sanchez — Sat, 20 Oct 2018 02:21:05 -0400

A corporeal is an nco,a specialist is not,therefore you cannot fraternize.

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Oct 20 at 2018 10:53 PM

SFC Ralph E Kelley — Sat, 20 Oct 2018 22:53:27 -0400

It's by "rank" and position of authority over the other - not grade.

Response by CPL William Knight made Dec 24 at 2018 9:48 PM

CPL William Knight — Mon, 24 Dec 2018 21:48:01 -0500

My understanding was that as long as you didn't work together, as in the Spc being a direct subordinate it wasn't out of regs