Is it time to rethink COIN?

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sun, 26 Jul 2015 16:44:42 -0400

The requisite tool kit for COIN is filled with nation building tools: providing security, schools, government, police, military, judicial system, hospitals, infrastructure, sanitation, and economic development. We are supposed to make the indigenous people to stop and fight insurgents (how), and fight the insurgents (how)? We are also supposed to know the culture and the ramifications of it (how)? We bask in our glory when twice a month we have a good drone strike. We are regressing and not being critical thinkers in my opinion.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 26 at 2015 5:21 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Jul 2015 17:21:23 -0400

I will have to echo WO1 Vaclav on this one sir. COIN in it's generic form would work in a nation with a national identity, we have to adapt it in order for it to work with a tribal/clan identity.

Response by LTC John Shaw made Jul 26 at 2015 5:25 PM

LTC John Shaw — Sun, 26 Jul 2015 17:25:15 -0400

MAJ Ken Landgren WO1 Tim Vaclav Agreed with both of you. The COIN philosophy is to allow the static security conditions for the local government to work. The military cannot make a government legitimate in the population's mind and will, only the local government can do this.
Once we changed the definition of 'winning' from a military definition to a State Dept definition = legitimate and effective local government, we have one of two options:
The military must take over the role of government, like we did post-WWII in Germany, Japan, Korea, France, etc. and we will be military 'governors' for a period of a minimum of 10-15 years to truly establish stability, takes 500K - 1M soldiers for the ME
OR
the military should be removed from the environment and inserted only to kill a specific threats that are made against the US government or specific US interest. (Special Forces will be busy forever.)

Response by COL Vincent Stoneking made Jul 26 at 2015 6:33 PM

COL Vincent Stoneking — Sun, 26 Jul 2015 18:33:25 -0400

A common issue of framing the problem based on the tool in your hand.

Apaches are great. Apaches do fine work. Not every airframe needs to be an Apache.

COIN is fine. COIN is great. Not everything we do needs to be COIN. Most things aren't counter insurgencies. HINT: If there is not an extant government or civil society in place, there cannot be an insurgency, if there is not an insurgency, countering it doesn't make a lot of sense... (additionally, countering an insurgency may well allow a society that we don't like to stabilize....)