Is it true that Officers in the Army are more integrated into the Enlisted ranks then in the Navy?

PO3 Aaron Hassay — Mon, 14 Jan 2019 15:45:21 -0500

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2019 3:47 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Jan 2019 15:47:39 -0500

Can you give any examples of what you mean?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2019 4:10 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Jan 2019 16:10:49 -0500

I have no frame of reference for the Navy, but if you mean do Army Officers try to immerse themselves amongst their enlisted soldiers I would say it depends on the Officer. I personally had my company commander on deployment hanging out with my fire team during our test cycle so he could learn more about his men. And I have had others who wouldn’t be caught dead with anyone who wasn’t at least a SSG(E6).

Personally I think it’s great for them to be around their enlisted guys, helps build cohesion and boost morale.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2019 4:20 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Jan 2019 16:20:45 -0500

Absolutely!! Army Officers, without a doubt, are more integrated with Soldiers than Navy Officers are with their sailors. A good example is this: One of my BN CDRs and his CSM coordinated to do a day trip, combined with reenlistments of a few troops on a Navy ship. For lunch - the CSM was not allowed to eat lunch with his BC in the Officers area, nor was he allowed to eat with his lower enlisted troops...he had to go to the Chiefs area. Totally blew his mind.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2019 5:20 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Jan 2019 17:20:57 -0500

I don't really understand your question.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Jan 14 at 2019 5:27 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Mon, 14 Jan 2019 17:27:34 -0500

No sure what you are talking about, tho normally our 0-1 thru 0-3's are living, eating, sleeping and humping just like the enlisted- no special messhalls in the field, etc.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Jan 14 at 2019 6:02 PM

CAPT Kevin B. — Mon, 14 Jan 2019 18:02:12 -0500

Yes, by design. Back when things were wood, there was a separate mess, billeting, etc. aboard ship basically segregating by class. That methodology carries on today. It also carries on when looking at most bases. The chow hall serves varied ranks, but there are designated areas for officers and NCOs. That changes when out in the field. Everyone is in tents and chows down wherever the slop is slung. We are not the most isolated though. I remember doing combined work overseas. Separation was more strict in Commonwealth units. The Army is getting paid to pound ground and better not be standing still. Hence there's much more merging vs. designated separation. There are always exceptions. Medical types are merged regardless.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Jan 14 at 2019 6:07 PM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Mon, 14 Jan 2019 18:07:14 -0500

Hmm, tough question as I have never been on a vessel of the US Navy to say yes or no too. I have heard, that navy Officer, NCO's and Enlisted have separate dinning areas on ships. To that end, as for myself as an NCO and then a Warrant I tired to eat with the troops when ever possible to check on the welfare, see what's going on in their lives and if nothing else to make sure things are getting taken care of, and if their is anything I can do for them. Other than that, I can't really say. No one comes along and does my wash, which is what I have heard happens on ships.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2019 7:14 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Jan 2019 19:14:19 -0500

I was a company commander of a joint company and the second biggest military population in my company was Navy. I had to learn the hard way that if there are any issues with the Navy enlisted personnel, the Navy Chief needs to be the first person informed and the first person to try and rectify the situation before officers even think of getting involved. The Army and AF Lieutenants had serious issues with this.

Response by CPO Gregory Smith made Jan 14 at 2019 8:54 PM

CPO Gregory Smith — Mon, 14 Jan 2019 20:54:34 -0500

In the Navy & Marine Corps family we have this thing called Tradition. I heard the Army used to have some, but not so much anymore.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2019 9:02 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Jan 2019 21:02:48 -0500

Each Service and country has their own culture, often based on the specific missions they perform. SOCOM and Joint Staff units are also unique from their respective Service culture. It is worth learning about other Service cultures, especially as it teaches you about why your culture is the way it is.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2019 9:56 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Jan 2019 21:56:16 -0500

The navy folks I've worked with were blown away when I said in the field Army leaders and officers eat last after their men.

Response by SSG Brian G. made Jan 14 at 2019 10:05 PM

SSG Brian G. — Mon, 14 Jan 2019 22:05:07 -0500

100% definitely. It was a huge shock to go from a situation where officers and enlisted shared the same latrine and mess to one where there were separate dining facilities for officers versus enlisted, separate latrines as well. Likewise when it came to issues. While I appreciated the Chief coming to me as detachment NCO with the problem, the look on his face when I told him he needed to go through my PL first was priceless.

Response by LTJG Richard Bruce made Jan 15 at 2019 12:25 AM

LTJG Richard Bruce — Tue, 15 Jan 2019 00:25:58 -0500

Served aboard five Coast Guard cutters (4 high endurance, 1 patrol boat) and many utility boats as a non-rate (E-2/3), cadet, and junior officer. Sailors live 24/7 within a moving metal box.
Officers and enlisted have alike and different functions. As a junior officer, I was a department head overseeing three divisions, a deck watch officer, a boarding officer, and had about 10 collateral duties. I dealt directly with all hands. It's important to understand one's position within the cross-functional organization.

My luxurious 8x10 two man stateroom was my living quarters and my office holding all my possessions, paperwork, records, and Gov't cash, as well as, as those of my fellow junior officer. Stateroom held classified material, and about $20k of cash (ship's store and morale fund). Officers' country was off-limits to enlisted crew unless on business. Officers have the luxury to sleep off-hours as operations warrant. "Sleep" is one or two hours of quiet.

Officer's wardroom are off-limits. The wardroom is the officer's lounge, mess, meeting room, office space, and medical operating room. Yes, the mess table doubled as an operating bed with instruments, lights, and autoclave nearby. Classified information was discussed in the Wardroom.

Chief Petty Officers had small two man staterooms with shared heads. They also had their own mess/lounge/meeting room. This was a perk of being Chief. Chiefs are expected to manage the crew. Officers manage the ship.

E-6 and below lived in ten or thirty man berthing areas with shared heads and shared lounges.
Privacy is upmost important aboard ship. Space is limited. Living quarters had multiple uses.
Officers, chiefs, and crew interact all day. Being able to get away from each other for a few moments is important. On two of our larger cutters, there were 170 people living within 378ft.

Laundry is done by a non-rate in the engineering department. It's an entry level mechanical job. Fresh water is valuable. Wash was done with filtered sea water with fresh water rinse. Each day a different group is serviced. Officers had their laundry done one day a week. All the clothes are done together.

Crew's mess serviced all enlisted with same menu. Chiefs eat same food, but in their separate mess. Officers pay for their meals. Ship's budget pays for crew's meals. Officers have one cook assigned to the wardroom. Majority of the time, officers eat the same menu as the crew. It saves time and money. But, they can buy their own food. Officers have different work schedules than the crew. I routinely missed meal times.

Captains have their own private cook. CO eat, sleep, work at their own choosing.

1st photo is of junior cadet berthing aboard sailing ship Eagle. 2nd/3rd photo is from 327ft cutter crew's berthing. 4th photo is a typical junior officer stateroom.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2019 7:42 AM

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 15 Jan 2019 07:42:24 -0500

Yes.
But also depends on your Mos and rank still of course. But even in the Marine Corps in the infantry world officers, Nco's, and enlisted do everything together out in the field. But the Navy absolutely is separated big time.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2019 7:54 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 15 Jan 2019 07:54:49 -0500

The eating thing is probably the biggest. When I ate meals overseas, we ate in a huge tent. I almost always ate with my unit, which was a brigade hq. That meant I ate with anywhere from privates to the BDE commander at any given time. Also, billeting is mixed sometimes bc of lack of facilities. I had an E6 for a bunkmate, sandwiched between 3 LTs and a CW3 in an open bay. Never had any issues, everyone was always professional.

Response by SFC David Bentley made Jan 15 at 2019 11:46 AM

SFC David Bentley — Tue, 15 Jan 2019 11:46:23 -0500

One of my first duty assignments as a tanker was the CO loader. There is nowhere on earth closer than being on a tank crew.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2019 11:32 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 15 Jan 2019 23:32:13 -0500

We should note that there are reasons for the cultural differences between officers and enlisted for the services.

From a naval perspective during the age of sail, the ship was considered sovereign territory of its home nation. The officers were the charge of this sovereignty, and so in a sense had a certain increased “duty” to it. Discipline and rank became more important in order to maintain that sovereignty.

In contrast (at least from my experience and from reading) army officers were forced to have more direct interaction with their enlisted counterparts because of the linear nature of war and its chaos: they directed their troops often from forward positions in the ranks. Though there is still separation (very noticeable in some ways), we must realize that the nature of the combat requires your field grade officers to be present in combat and visible, so in a sense the balance is a little more equal because bullets don’t care who they hit.

In the modern sense, officers have even more burden now because they have so much more to do, and thus more collaboration with their enlisted counterparts due to increased mission loads. I don’t see this as a bad thing, but simply the culture of the military is becoming more collaborative for various reasons.

I look forward to others’ input.

Response by Capt Joseph Olson made Jan 17 at 2019 12:24 AM

Capt Joseph Olson — Thu, 17 Jan 2019 00:24:30 -0500

Command is lonely for a reason. The officer may have to choose which subordinate to send to forward an exposed LP or out to the end of a barely floating deck to plug a leak. If he is "friendly" with one of the subordinates, how can his choice not reflect that friendship? NO matter how hard the commander tries to BE fair, he cannot ever remove all the suspicion that his decision was not 100% professional.
Obviously, if a career field is far removed from battle or shipboard danger, the rules may relax. BUT, at least when I was on AD, in the USAF, JAG officers were "line officers" so if the USSR had nuked my base and I had been the senior line officer standing, I would have been "in command". My Father, the Colonel, never let me forget that.

Response by PO1 Mark Robinson made Jan 17 at 2019 6:17 PM

PO1 Mark Robinson — Thu, 17 Jan 2019 18:17:23 -0500

In a word, yes. The Navy is a professionally and culturally stratified service. Officers and Chief Petty Officers (Naval SNCOs) wear separate uniforms than other Sailors E-6 and below. Officers, Chief Petty Officers, and other enlisted Sailors all eat and sleep in separate areas whether on ship or ashore. The three "classes" of Sailors were encouraged not to interact with each other in their personal or non-professional lives. That was my observation while I was on active duty 12 years ago; some things may have changed. But that's just the way it was and likely still is.

Response by CPT Derek Wren made Feb 10 at 2021 3:05 AM

CPT Derek Wren — Wed, 10 Feb 2021 03:05:11 -0500

From my personal experience, absolutely yes! While deployed to Afghanistan we had a mixture of branches and as an officer I got to know a fellow Naval officer and the way in which he described the separation of the two was crazy in my opinion. He even described the separation amongst within their officer as well.
Having gone to Coronado Island for two or three annual training periods, you could see first hand the disconnect/separation which started by the mere separation of the two during chow and other activities that took place.